I am willing to bet a lot that the new iMac has a lot to do with Apple not pushing out the G5s as soon as they can. After all, why should Apple rush to get the G5s out the door when they can ride the success of the new iMacs for a while and work on ramping up G5s for a future release? Also, with the advent of Apollo, it kinda gives Apple more room to breathe as far as future G4 computer revisions, again leading to the fact that they don't have to rush out the G5s. It doesn't make sense any more to rush out the G5s when the new lineup is doing great. I think if the iMac wasn't a sucess, there would be a different attitude at Apple.
[quote] set for some months now. <hr></blockquote>
Well, that's fine, but it doesn't mean they've set in a good position. They are still selling a professional laptop with a lower pixel density than their consumer laptop. General philosophy aside, it doesn't make sense for their target markets.
Digital image professionals are the ones who need a high density screen, not web surfing consumers.
So let them be set for some months now. But I'm not buying until they decide to unsettle themselves and put on the market what should be there.
I seem to remember Mr. Jobs saying that Apple will be closing the MHz gap(re: now it's a GHz + gap). Just exactly when might we expect the gap to start closing, let alone getting wider.
What will Intel and AMD be at come July, come Sept., come December. HUH.
I think Motorola has probably very good engineers, but they obviously do not want to design desktop cpu's. I wish I had an answer and I bet Mr. Jobs wishes he had an answer too. <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
Guess this means it will be all about OSX for a while.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Look at the facts:
(1) nothing is known about the G5
(2) the 7445 is sampling since january, pin-by-pin compatible with the 7441 and running up to 800 MHz now
So we should take this as a hint from Apple: Buy Macs NOW! - as there will be no G5s ("no new CPU") for a while. But: Regarding the PowerBook and also the iBook the story is a different one. Faster processors are available and can be plugged in without a system redesign. Apple would be silly not to take this offer.
I would not be surprised if we would not see any G5s until 2003. A significantly improved G4 (with bigger L2 cache and a .13 process) would be a equal competitor to the P4 even with "only" 70% clock speed.
[quote] CUPERTINO, CA - Feb.11, 2002 - In a startling series of events the Lord God reached his hand down from Heaven today and, with a thunderous gesture, carved into stone the phrase "NO NEW APPLE HARDWARE IN MARCH" Onlookers were stunned and confused. "I'm not sure what this means," said one Mac fan, "but I'll bet it has something to do with new G5s coming out at Tokyo." Several others went on to speculate that it must mean the release of an Apple-branded PDA later this week.
<strong>Well, that's fine, but it doesn't mean they've set in a good position. They are still selling a professional laptop with a lower pixel density than their consumer laptop. General philosophy aside, it doesn't make sense for their target markets.</strong><hr></blockquote>
With the emphasis I've added, this is exactly why there are no planned changes. The PowerBook - with its apparently pathetic resolution - is still selling very, very well.
[quote]<strong>Digital image professionals are the ones who need a high density screen, not web surfing consumers.
So let them be set for some months now. But I'm not buying until they decide to unsettle themselves and put on the market what should be there.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's my suspicion that this whole "professionals need x, professionals need y" is a bunch of hogwash? perpetuated by members of this board.
Give me an example of a "professional" who does all their work on a PowerBook and requires a resolution beyond that offered by the PowerBook.
If resolution and screen quality is that important, they could buy a Power Mac with a lovely big display and still have enough left over for an iPod and several months rent.
Are there roving bands of nomadic graphics professionals walking the remote plains of America who absolutely must have a higher resolution laptop?
Well, that's fine, but it doesn't mean they've set in a good position. They are still selling a professional laptop with a lower pixel density than their consumer laptop. General philosophy aside, it doesn't make sense for their target markets.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Pixel density isn't a feature, it's a compromise: People wanted 10x7 (and OS X runs optimally starting at 10x7), and they also wanted a smaller (kid-friendlier) form. So Apple crammed 10x7 into a small screen. The introduction - to applause - of a 14" iBook with the same resolution should tell you that there were a lot of people for whom the pixel density was a turnoff.
[quote]<strong>So let them be set for some months now. But I'm not buying until they decide to unsettle themselves and put on the market what should be there.</strong><hr></blockquote>
No matter who's buying the laptop, it's a safe bet that they want to read the text on their screens. Windows laptops have such high resolutions mostly because Windows requires them for all those menubars, and they can get away with them because Windows renders text much larger than Mac OS does. 10 point Times New Roman on Windows seems larger than 12 point on the Mac, and 12 point looks enormous.
What Belle said: If you need a lot of pixels, get a big monitor. Apple will not increase the pixel density on the PowerBook unless they feel they have to make an iBook-style compromise between resolution and physical size. (Or until OS X goes resolution-independent, but that's a long ways off - and it wouldn't satisfy you anyway.)
Anti-G5 people, meet the confirmation that the G5 is coming out after "some months." It's pretty baldly stated... no new CPUs for "some months" to come. Gee, that means, with no reasonable debate, that new CPUs *will* come out after "some months." Since *ANY* intelligent G5 fan-speculator expects the G5 at MWNY (suggesting it was coming in March was, in fact, really silly), and MWNY is, in fact, some months away, nothing whatsoever has been changed for the negative by this announcement.
"Ah!" you say, "What about where the article says the G4 still has a long life ahead of it?" And so it does. The new iMac uses a G4. The TiBook uses a G4. The G4 will be with us for a long, long time to come. So will the G5, in the professional-level products. Just as the G3 is still with us to this day in the iBook, the life-span of the G4 is completely unrelated to the introduction of the G5 (which, as indicated in the article, will most likely take place in a few months... not year(s), as some people here seem to want to believe). There is a fine balance to be found between pessimism and optimism, and I think you'll find that balance is nearly always the correct path...
Anti-G5 people, meet the confirmation that the G5 is coming out after "some months." It's pretty baldly stated... no new CPUs for "some months" to come. Gee, that means, with no reasonable debate, that new CPUs *will* come out after "some months." Since *ANY* intelligent G5 fan-speculator expects the G5 at MWNY (suggesting it was coming in March was, in fact, really silly), and MWNY is, in fact, some months away, nothing whatsoever has been changed for the negative by this announcement.
Some of you people are seriously deranged. Would you all like a personal, handwritten note from Uncle Steve telling you that they're not releasing hardware for a long time?
As for everyone who is now certain of the G5 in New York, let me also point out that next January is "some months" away also, and that everything is pointing toward my source being right all along. Get over it.
Some of you people are seriously deranged. Would you all like a personal, handwritten note from Uncle Steve telling you that they're not releasing hardware for a long time?
As for everyone who is now certain of the G5 in New York, let me also point out that next January is "some months" away also, and that everything is pointing toward my source being right all along. Get over it.</strong><hr></blockquote>
CPU != ALL HARDWARE How hard is that to understand? They clearly said in the article that they would be releasing no new CPUs in the coming months. They said NOTHING about new hardware. I'm willing to take any bets that Apple will release some new hardware within 2 months. Displays, iPod like devices, mice, etc. Any takers?
Some of you people are seriously deranged. Would you all like a personal, handwritten note from Uncle Steve telling you that they're not releasing hardware for a long time?
As for everyone who is now certain of the G5 in New York, let me also point out that next January is "some months" away also, and that everything is pointing toward my source being right all along. Get over it.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm not quite sure what's so "deranged" about thinking that "some months" away could be 5.5 months just as easily as it could be 12. Also, where, even in the article, does it say that Apple will not be releasing any hardware for a "long time"? It says no new CPUs for some months to come. "Some months" is only equal to "a long time" if you are an unmitigated pessimist. Also, you are conflating new CPUs with new hardware. Note, though, that I'm thinking more along the lines of displays and hardware updates than weirdo i-devices. Now, I think there will be no new hardware at MWTokyo. However, it's clear that Apple is not going out of business, so there will be hardware updates during the next six months.
On the G5 note, it's positively strange how some people here argue so violently that the G5 *CANNOT* come out before January 2003. What's your stake in it? Why do you *want* there to not be a G5 until 1/2003? Do you hold a lot of AMD and/or Intel stock or something? Or is it just a case of severe pessimism, combined with the good old cliche about misery loving company? Why do you care so much about other people's opinions being positive that you have to try to take every possible chance to burst their bubble? You are bad-mouthing Apple worse than deflated expectations ever would. There's too much negativity in the world anyway. "G5 in March" is/was ridiculously optimistic. "G5 in January 2003 or even later" is ridiculously pessimistic. The truth, as usual, probably lies in between. There could perhaps be a special event sometime after MWNY and before January, for all I know. I'm just splitting the difference between optimism and pessimism.
As for your, or any one else's, "source"... I don't believe you. Too many people have argued against a G5 *even existing period* for me to lend credence to your argument just because you claim to have a source, especially when you end your comments in a degrading and patronizing manner. If you cared to elaborate as to who your source was (without being patronizing)I might be interested. But then again, this being the anonymous internet, it probably means nothing. I'm just curious, as I said, as to what your stake in the non-existence of the G5 is.
later,
Shadow Knight
PS: I actually have no stake either way, save in the continued existence of Apple Computer, Inc. I merely find pessismism unpleasant in the near term, and optimism unpleasant in the far...
To all the people meandering over the meaning of CPU:
[quote] "We're not planning to introduce any new CPUs at Macworld Tokyo, as a matter of fact, we're set for some months now," said Joswiak. "Having just updated all four product quadrants, it's really nonsensical to think we're about to update the quadrants again at Macworld Tokyo." <hr></blockquote>
Basically, he's interchanging the terms CPU and computer. They aren't going to update any part of the quadrant (iMac, iBook, Power Mac, Powerbook) at Tokyo. Speculate all you want about display changes, digital devices, the rebirth of the cube and the 5 product matrix, whatever, but it's straight from the horses mouth that, at Tokyo, there will be no G5, no 700 Mhz iBook, no higher resolution Powerbook. Just the facts.
Yes, isn't it awful that if you're doing hardcore video editing your 1GHz DP Mac eats anything on the Windows side for breakfast? Isn't it awful that on my 867MHz Power Mac I can do real-time video editing with FC Pro that with no extra hardware? Isn't it awful that encoding a DVD takes me so much less time than on a 2.2GHz P4?
Tut tut, bad Apple for giving me tools that let me do my work faster, for less money.
On the G5 note, it's positively strange how some people here argue so violently that the G5 *CANNOT* come out before January 2003. What's your stake in it? Why do you *want* there to not be a G5 until 1/2003? Do you hold a lot of AMD and/or Intel stock or something? Or is it just a case of severe pessimism, combined with the good old cliche about misery loving company?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
No, it's a simple case of putting together available evidence, and knowing more than a little about how chips get designed. G5's will debut at 800MHz - that much is completely public knowledge. The first announce G5 product is the MPC 8540, from Motorola - and it will not ship until the 3rd quarter of 2002. That, too, is public knowledge. The 8540 is not a desktop processor - it's designed from the ground up for high speed communications applications. It is reasonable to expect that a desktop G5 will follow some time after - and, in the quantities that Apple needs, that means 2003 not 2002.
Also, the G5 offers few architectural advantages for desktop computers that will matter in 2002. For example, G5 will include support for RapidIO, a feature won't be relavent for desktop CPUs for at least a year. It includes support for faster FSBs, but there's no reason why this can't be grafted on to a G4 chip much more easily.
Then consider the G4, and its evolution. The 7400 was, as Mot now recognises, a flawed chip (the company no longer makes 7400s). The 7450 is a completely different beast, effectively closer to the bottom of its performance development curve than at the top.
What's more, there's much more to come from increased bus speeds and use of DDRAM on a new motherboard with the G4. AltiVec is bandwidth and memory hungry: adding DDRAM and a faster FSB to a G4 equipped Mac will give you a huge increase in performance for any well-coded AltiVec application. And that goes double for a dual-processor version (I'll go out on a limb and say that Apple will never make a quad-processor Power Mac: The extra price/performance isn't good enough to make it worth the money for them, or for users).
Maybe Apple has invented something to replace the CPU!!
Oh well, no faster processors for a while. It would more than make up for it if another 50 Apple stores are announced. As some people have said, Apple isn't going to grow marketshare by competing on specs. They need more marketing and complete solutions. Hopefully MWT will give us an update on the retail situation and something else interesting.
Comments
Well, that's fine, but it doesn't mean they've set in a good position. They are still selling a professional laptop with a lower pixel density than their consumer laptop. General philosophy aside, it doesn't make sense for their target markets.
Digital image professionals are the ones who need a high density screen, not web surfing consumers.
So let them be set for some months now. But I'm not buying until they decide to unsettle themselves and put on the market what should be there.
- Pook
What will Intel and AMD be at come July, come Sept., come December. HUH.
I think Motorola has probably very good engineers, but they obviously do not want to design desktop cpu's. I wish I had an answer and I bet Mr. Jobs wishes he had an answer too. <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
<strong>Maccentral <a href="http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0202/11.applehardware.php"; target="_blank">quotes Apple</a> as saying that there will be 'no new CPUs at Macworld Tokyo' and that the company is 'set for some months now.'
Guess this means it will be all about OSX for a while.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Look at the facts:
(1) nothing is known about the G5
(2) the 7445 is sampling since january, pin-by-pin compatible with the 7441 and running up to 800 MHz now
So we should take this as a hint from Apple: Buy Macs NOW! - as there will be no G5s ("no new CPU") for a while. But: Regarding the PowerBook and also the iBook the story is a different one. Faster processors are available and can be plugged in without a system redesign. Apple would be silly not to take this offer.
I would not be surprised if we would not see any G5s until 2003. A significantly improved G4 (with bigger L2 cache and a .13 process) would be a equal competitor to the P4 even with "only" 70% clock speed.
<hr></blockquote>
<a href="http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=001285"; target="_blank">http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=001285</a>;
<strong>Well, that's fine, but it doesn't mean they've set in a good position. They are still selling a professional laptop with a lower pixel density than their consumer laptop. General philosophy aside, it doesn't make sense for their target markets.</strong><hr></blockquote>
With the emphasis I've added, this is exactly why there are no planned changes. The PowerBook - with its apparently pathetic resolution - is still selling very, very well.
[quote]<strong>Digital image professionals are the ones who need a high density screen, not web surfing consumers.
So let them be set for some months now. But I'm not buying until they decide to unsettle themselves and put on the market what should be there.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's my suspicion that this whole "professionals need x, professionals need y" is a bunch of hogwash? perpetuated by members of this board.
Give me an example of a "professional" who does all their work on a PowerBook and requires a resolution beyond that offered by the PowerBook.
If resolution and screen quality is that important, they could buy a Power Mac with a lovely big display and still have enough left over for an iPod and several months rent.
Are there roving bands of nomadic graphics professionals walking the remote plains of America who absolutely must have a higher resolution laptop?
<strong>
Well, that's fine, but it doesn't mean they've set in a good position. They are still selling a professional laptop with a lower pixel density than their consumer laptop. General philosophy aside, it doesn't make sense for their target markets.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Pixel density isn't a feature, it's a compromise: People wanted 10x7 (and OS X runs optimally starting at 10x7), and they also wanted a smaller (kid-friendlier) form. So Apple crammed 10x7 into a small screen. The introduction - to applause - of a 14" iBook with the same resolution should tell you that there were a lot of people for whom the pixel density was a turnoff.
[quote]<strong>So let them be set for some months now. But I'm not buying until they decide to unsettle themselves and put on the market what should be there.</strong><hr></blockquote>
No matter who's buying the laptop, it's a safe bet that they want to read the text on their screens. Windows laptops have such high resolutions mostly because Windows requires them for all those menubars, and they can get away with them because Windows renders text much larger than Mac OS does. 10 point Times New Roman on Windows seems larger than 12 point on the Mac, and 12 point looks enormous.
What Belle said: If you need a lot of pixels, get a big monitor. Apple will not increase the pixel density on the PowerBook unless they feel they have to make an iBook-style compromise between resolution and physical size. (Or until OS X goes resolution-independent, but that's a long ways off - and it wouldn't satisfy you anyway.)
[edit: I speaking English real good. -Amorph]
[ 02-11-2002: Message edited by: Amorph ]</p>
Belle 1
Amorph 1
Pook 0
[ 02-11-2002: Message edited by: CosmoNut ]</p>
<strong>G5 rumors meet Cold Water,
Cold Water meet G5 rumors.
Enjoy the wait.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Anti-G5 people, meet the confirmation that the G5 is coming out after "some months." It's pretty baldly stated... no new CPUs for "some months" to come. Gee, that means, with no reasonable debate, that new CPUs *will* come out after "some months." Since *ANY* intelligent G5 fan-speculator expects the G5 at MWNY (suggesting it was coming in March was, in fact, really silly), and MWNY is, in fact, some months away, nothing whatsoever has been changed for the negative by this announcement.
"Ah!" you say, "What about where the article says the G4 still has a long life ahead of it?" And so it does. The new iMac uses a G4. The TiBook uses a G4. The G4 will be with us for a long, long time to come. So will the G5, in the professional-level products. Just as the G3 is still with us to this day in the iBook, the life-span of the G4 is completely unrelated to the introduction of the G5 (which, as indicated in the article, will most likely take place in a few months... not year(s), as some people here seem to want to believe). There is a fine balance to be found between pessimism and optimism, and I think you'll find that balance is nearly always the correct path...
later,
Shadow Knight
[ 02-11-2002: Message edited by: Shadow Knight ]</p>
My guess is that in the near future we see new displays and maybe a new digital hub device, not Macs per say.
<strong>
Anti-G5 people, meet the confirmation that the G5 is coming out after "some months." It's pretty baldly stated... no new CPUs for "some months" to come. Gee, that means, with no reasonable debate, that new CPUs *will* come out after "some months." Since *ANY* intelligent G5 fan-speculator expects the G5 at MWNY (suggesting it was coming in March was, in fact, really silly), and MWNY is, in fact, some months away, nothing whatsoever has been changed for the negative by this announcement.
[ 02-11-2002: Message edited by: Shadow Knight ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Some of you people are seriously deranged. Would you all like a personal, handwritten note from Uncle Steve telling you that they're not releasing hardware for a long time?
As for everyone who is now certain of the G5 in New York, let me also point out that next January is "some months" away also, and that everything is pointing toward my source being right all along. Get over it.
<strong>
Some of you people are seriously deranged. Would you all like a personal, handwritten note from Uncle Steve telling you that they're not releasing hardware for a long time?
As for everyone who is now certain of the G5 in New York, let me also point out that next January is "some months" away also, and that everything is pointing toward my source being right all along. Get over it.</strong><hr></blockquote>
CPU != ALL HARDWARE How hard is that to understand? They clearly said in the article that they would be releasing no new CPUs in the coming months. They said NOTHING about new hardware. I'm willing to take any bets that Apple will release some new hardware within 2 months. Displays, iPod like devices, mice, etc. Any takers?
<strong>
Some of you people are seriously deranged. Would you all like a personal, handwritten note from Uncle Steve telling you that they're not releasing hardware for a long time?
As for everyone who is now certain of the G5 in New York, let me also point out that next January is "some months" away also, and that everything is pointing toward my source being right all along. Get over it.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm not quite sure what's so "deranged" about thinking that "some months" away could be 5.5 months just as easily as it could be 12. Also, where, even in the article, does it say that Apple will not be releasing any hardware for a "long time"? It says no new CPUs for some months to come. "Some months" is only equal to "a long time" if you are an unmitigated pessimist. Also, you are conflating new CPUs with new hardware. Note, though, that I'm thinking more along the lines of displays and hardware updates than weirdo i-devices. Now, I think there will be no new hardware at MWTokyo. However, it's clear that Apple is not going out of business, so there will be hardware updates during the next six months.
On the G5 note, it's positively strange how some people here argue so violently that the G5 *CANNOT* come out before January 2003. What's your stake in it? Why do you *want* there to not be a G5 until 1/2003? Do you hold a lot of AMD and/or Intel stock or something? Or is it just a case of severe pessimism, combined with the good old cliche about misery loving company? Why do you care so much about other people's opinions being positive that you have to try to take every possible chance to burst their bubble? You are bad-mouthing Apple worse than deflated expectations ever would. There's too much negativity in the world anyway. "G5 in March" is/was ridiculously optimistic. "G5 in January 2003 or even later" is ridiculously pessimistic. The truth, as usual, probably lies in between. There could perhaps be a special event sometime after MWNY and before January, for all I know. I'm just splitting the difference between optimism and pessimism.
As for your, or any one else's, "source"... I don't believe you. Too many people have argued against a G5 *even existing period* for me to lend credence to your argument just because you claim to have a source, especially when you end your comments in a degrading and patronizing manner. If you cared to elaborate as to who your source was (without being patronizing)I might be interested. But then again, this being the anonymous internet, it probably means nothing. I'm just curious, as I said, as to what your stake in the non-existence of the G5 is.
later,
Shadow Knight
PS: I actually have no stake either way, save in the continued existence of Apple Computer, Inc. I merely find pessismism unpleasant in the near term, and optimism unpleasant in the far...
[quote] "We're not planning to introduce any new CPUs at Macworld Tokyo, as a matter of fact, we're set for some months now," said Joswiak. "Having just updated all four product quadrants, it's really nonsensical to think we're about to update the quadrants again at Macworld Tokyo." <hr></blockquote>
Basically, he's interchanging the terms CPU and computer. They aren't going to update any part of the quadrant (iMac, iBook, Power Mac, Powerbook) at Tokyo. Speculate all you want about display changes, digital devices, the rebirth of the cube and the 5 product matrix, whatever, but it's straight from the horses mouth that, at Tokyo, there will be no G5, no 700 Mhz iBook, no higher resolution Powerbook. Just the facts.
[edit: spelling]
[ 02-11-2002: Message edited by: agent302 ]</p>
<strong>Yep we're all agreed then.
We're stuck with a Dp 1ghz machine.
Isn't it awful.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes, isn't it awful that if you're doing hardcore video editing your 1GHz DP Mac eats anything on the Windows side for breakfast? Isn't it awful that on my 867MHz Power Mac I can do real-time video editing with FC Pro that with no extra hardware? Isn't it awful that encoding a DVD takes me so much less time than on a 2.2GHz P4?
Tut tut, bad Apple for giving me tools that let me do my work faster, for less money.
<strong>
On the G5 note, it's positively strange how some people here argue so violently that the G5 *CANNOT* come out before January 2003. What's your stake in it? Why do you *want* there to not be a G5 until 1/2003? Do you hold a lot of AMD and/or Intel stock or something? Or is it just a case of severe pessimism, combined with the good old cliche about misery loving company?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
No, it's a simple case of putting together available evidence, and knowing more than a little about how chips get designed. G5's will debut at 800MHz - that much is completely public knowledge. The first announce G5 product is the MPC 8540, from Motorola - and it will not ship until the 3rd quarter of 2002. That, too, is public knowledge. The 8540 is not a desktop processor - it's designed from the ground up for high speed communications applications. It is reasonable to expect that a desktop G5 will follow some time after - and, in the quantities that Apple needs, that means 2003 not 2002.
Also, the G5 offers few architectural advantages for desktop computers that will matter in 2002. For example, G5 will include support for RapidIO, a feature won't be relavent for desktop CPUs for at least a year. It includes support for faster FSBs, but there's no reason why this can't be grafted on to a G4 chip much more easily.
Then consider the G4, and its evolution. The 7400 was, as Mot now recognises, a flawed chip (the company no longer makes 7400s). The 7450 is a completely different beast, effectively closer to the bottom of its performance development curve than at the top.
What's more, there's much more to come from increased bus speeds and use of DDRAM on a new motherboard with the G4. AltiVec is bandwidth and memory hungry: adding DDRAM and a faster FSB to a G4 equipped Mac will give you a huge increase in performance for any well-coded AltiVec application. And that goes double for a dual-processor version (I'll go out on a limb and say that Apple will never make a quad-processor Power Mac: The extra price/performance isn't good enough to make it worth the money for them, or for users).
Anyway, that's enough for now...
Oh well, no faster processors for a while. It would more than make up for it if another 50 Apple stores are announced. As some people have said, Apple isn't going to grow marketshare by competing on specs. They need more marketing and complete solutions. Hopefully MWT will give us an update on the retail situation and something else interesting.
So its "Official". Apple has given up on the pro market. So long high margin sales.
Hello to Uncle Jim and Auntie Maud the future mac users and appleinsider posters - if they can figure out what a modem is.
Michael Dell must be laughing his head off