Core2Duo chips were the first 64 bit chips in Apple computers. The previous generation CoreDuo machines (1st gen MacBook Pro's for example) are only 32 bit. Apple stating the earliest chips that will run Lion are Core2Duo by default means it is 64 bit only.
I’m sure yes—making the price $60 instead of the usual $129.
Basically, then, it’s like Snow Leopard users getting a super cheap upgrade deal, and everyone else getting a super cheap “full price” (less than half the usual $129, which was always much cheaper than Windows—we’re spoiled!)
As for people with slow internet being screwed... yes, if it’s super slow, they may want to either hold off on Lion or go to a library with WiFi. But once they DO download it (a couple overnights?) we have no reason to think they are screwed for problem-solving in future. The details you’re assuming are just not known yet.
The double upgrade has to be annoying though, sitting through two OS installs? Ouch. I hope there's forthcoming information that makes it easier for those people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
The guy screaming for a $5 OS was having "entitlement" issues. I'm glad Lion's only $30 for a family license and happy to have been wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove
Myself, like a lot of others, wanted resolution independence very much, so the rest of the os news don't sound that interesting.
Going from just the presentation, I found maybe a dozen productivity and usability enhancements, each of them good enough to be worth the $30 purchase. I had been wishing for some of those improvements in the desktop paradigm for a decade. It's unfortunate that Res Ind isn't there, but please, get real.
And so in order to use iCloud on my CD MacBook, I have to run Windows Vista or Windows 7. Nice. Just another nail in the coffin of my twenty-year relationship with Apple.
It is unfortunate your six year old computer won't do all the latest and greatest. These things happen sometimes.
The double upgrade has to be annoying though, sitting through two OS installs? Ouch. I hope there's forthcoming information that makes it easier for those people.
I don't think it's a concern for Apple or they would have offered an optical disc version at a later date (maybe sent off for pressing after the MAS version is added) and/or offered it for an increased price (there is increased cost for it.
If we look at the dates, since Lion is only for 64-bit Intel-based Macs that means we don't start that HW compatibility until August 2006, with the Mac Pro, but that is by no means when all Macs were capable were capable of running Lion. At the other end we have Snow Leopard being launched, June 8th, 2009, almost exactly 2 years ago which means every Mac sold since then came with Snow Leopard.
If we then consider the growth rate of Macs and the percentage of Leopard users is likely not vey big. Then if consider the reasons why someone who could have spent $29 on Snow Leopard has chosen to not update in the past two years we come out with an even smaller percentage.
And so in order to use iCloud on my CD MacBook, I have to run Windows Vista or Windows 7. Nice. Just another nail in the coffin of my twenty-year relationship with Apple.
"Remember that time in 1991 when I bought you that thing you always wanted? Well that's why I'm so hurt that you're treating me this way today. How could you do this to me?I know I've let myself go for the past 6 years but that doesn't mean you should give up on me. Maybe if you treated better I'd take better care of you in return."
Apple will likley have DVDs available at retail for Lion installs for Leopard owners, etc. Why wouldn't they?
Missed the ONLY part. Watched the keynote.
Quote:
Notice Lion is only 4GB? Why? To fit on a single layer DVD! However, I guarantee that the install is still tied to your iTunes PW and cannot be used on more than 5 machines (not a guarantee).
Wrong again. It's likely 4GB because it is a differential update (not all of the OS is ever new).
Quote:
Lion at retail will likely be $29, also. Apple is pushing to beat Windows at its own game - OS updates! It reduces confusion about which version to get.
Nope.
Quote:
I pray Apple's servers are ready for 10 million downloads on day one for Lion. The servers would completely go down without that massive data center.
If I could blow myself, I'd never leave the house.
PC-free iPhone and iPad ownership is the way of the future. No backup if Apple has it on the cloud.
I hate the word cloud.
I need someone to figure out if Lion will actually run on a non-64-bit machine (such as the first Core Duo Macs). Or I need to sell my MacBook Pro CD.
Could it be that iTunes is how Apple is going to add copy-protection to its OS DVDs? Imagine if installing the OS required you to create an iTunes account? Perhaps the retail disk version does not require it (more likely).
No Lion DVDs. No copy protection needed. It's built into iTunes.
Not a flame: These two legacy applications have to have x86 alternatives by this point. They must.
Hey Skil: As mentioned below, Quicken 2007 is one. The other is a special app that came with my Fuji Finepix, which I bought new just a few months ago. As an avid amateur photographer, this is necessary for my "workflow." Since Fuji isn't in the business of developing software applications, my gut feeling is that Ballmer will resign before Fuji upgrades this app. [damn! I just had to get Ballmer's name on this thread. Damn!}
Optical drives and splashes of colo(u)r! It's all gray these days.
My optical drive died 6 months ago and my internal drive with SL on it died 3 months later. I've been booting from a 10.5 Leopard external backup drive ever since. I can't get SL on the backup because I no longer have a working optical drive. I can get Applecare to fix everything, but haven't been able to be without a computer long enough to fix it. I guess now I'll have to make the time.
I was really saddened today when, for the first time, I couldn't watch the WWDC Keynote because Apple is now requiring 10.6 SL to view the keynote stream!
My optical drive died 6 months ago and my internal drive with SL on it died 3 months later. I've been booting from a 10.5 Leopard external backup drive ever since. I can't get SL on the backup because I no longer have a working optical drive. I can get Applecare to fix everything, but haven't been able to be without a computer long enough to fix it. I guess now I'll have to make the time.
I was really saddened today when, for the first time, I couldn't watch the WWDC Keynote because Apple is now requiring 10.6 SL to view the keynote stream!
You don't need to have an DVD to install SL. It's also possible that you can restore your external SL partition to the internal one using Disk Utility. I've gone disc-less for years now even going so far as to replace my ODD with an HDD.
It is unfortunate your six year old computer won't do all the latest and greatest. These things happen sometimes.
I'm not saying I expect my CD MacBook (five years and one month -- May 2006 was the first non-pro MacBook) to run every new thing that comes out. I just find it ironic that Apple supports the iCloud on my machine if I'm running Windows but not if I'm running OS X Snow Leopard. If they can bring the Mac App Store to Snow Leopard, why not iCloud?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecphorizer
"Fahrwahr?" Honestly Drive?
Why not Feuerwehr?
I was going for a particular dialect of pronouncing FireWire. I had a friend in college who was predestined to become an electrical engineer -- his childhood "security blanket" was a bundle of wires that he called his "wahrs" (or "warrs"? I'm trying to rhyme with bar). Maybe FarrWarr would have worked better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
"Remember that time in 1991 when I bought you that thing you always wanted? Well that's why I'm so hurt that you're treating me this way today. How could you do this to me?I know I've let myself go for the past 6 years but that doesn't mean you should give up on me. Maybe if you treated better I'd take better care of you in return."
At first I thought this was a movie / song / book reference, but since I mentioned 20 years, I now get it.
My reasons for leaving vary from the technological (dropping of features from the iPod nano 6G, a non-standard hard disk connector in the newest iMacs, the Lion / iCloud requirements) to the political (removal of certain apps from the iOS App Store, financial contributions) to the practical (I have to teach in Windows 7 and Office 2010, and the overhead of switching between operating systems makes me less efficient). I guess the middle is the strongest of the three: why should I contribute financially to a company that uses its clout to take a public stand against what I believe? It's a decision we all -- left, right, or center -- have to make about the companies we patronize. I know I'm not going to affect Apple's bottom line more than a infinitesimal fraction of a percent, but I believe that every penny counts.
It's a sad day when I find myself aligning myself with Microsoft rather than Apple (especially after subscribing to MacUser, MacWorld, and MacAddict / MacLife in the past) or Google ("don't be evil" -- yeah, right), but that's where I stand. I'm not saying Apple's products don't have some redeeming aspects to them -- all things considered, I prefer OS X, and I still find myself coming here to read about what Apple's doing -- but I'm trying to let principle rule over preference, even when it's difficult (I don't hit the mark every time, but I try). Adjusting to the concept of buying my next computer (still using the MacBook until it won't run) from one of the myriad of Windows PC vendors is overwhelming, but I'm more comfortable in Windows 7 than I was in earlier versions.
(This last bit is way OT, so please don't let this hijack the thread. I just wanted to say my piece, and the requirements for Lion and iCloud just opened an opportunity for a snarky comment that I felt deserved a more thorough explanation.)
Optical drives and splashes of colo(u)r! It's all gray these days.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
You don't need to have an DVD to install SL. It's also possible that you can restore your external SL partition to the internal one using Disk Utility. I've gone disc-less for years now even going so far as to replace my ODD with an HDD.
That's interesting. I never knew that. My internal HD is hardware screwed though. The system only thinks it's a blank CD and doesn't even show up in Disk Utility. It's time to go to the Apple Store or an Applecare service provider. Neither of which is less than 95 miles from me.
Someone told me you can do a completely clean install. When you run the installer you can choose what disk to install to, and an empty disk is ok.
Yes, you can install it to any volume with the GUID partition table and enough space.
What I don't yet know is if you can install it will install from a pre-Snow Leopard OS by running the installer. Apple info may just be a blanket statement because you need the Mac App Store in Snow Leopard or later to download the installer.
That's interesting. I never knew that. My internal HD is hardware screwed though. The system only thinks it's a blank CD and doesn't even show up in Disk Utility. It's time to go to the Apple Store or an Applecare service provider. Neither of which is less than 95 miles from me.
There are external pioneer superdrives to be had at < $50. check google.
[regarding my comment about "Fahrwahr]I was going for a particular dialect of pronouncing FireWire. I had a friend in college who was predestined to become an electrical engineer -- his childhood "security blanket" was a bundle of wires that he called his "wahrs" (or "warrs"? I'm trying to rhyme with bar). Maybe FarrWarr would have worked better.
Ah, that's a decent enough explanation. You see, I was going for the German: "fahren" means to drive while "die Wahrheit" means truth or honesty, so I assumed it had to do with being an honest driver or something extremely complex like that. I'm getting slashed by Occam's Razor.
And we won't open the can of worms dealing with the German for entrance (Einfahrt) or even the quainter Swedish (Infart). Swear to God.
Comments
Core2Duo chips were the first 64 bit chips in Apple computers. The previous generation CoreDuo machines (1st gen MacBook Pro's for example) are only 32 bit. Apple stating the earliest chips that will run Lion are Core2Duo by default means it is 64 bit only.
Thanks for clearing that up.
I’m sure yes—making the price $60 instead of the usual $129.
Basically, then, it’s like Snow Leopard users getting a super cheap upgrade deal, and everyone else getting a super cheap “full price” (less than half the usual $129, which was always much cheaper than Windows—we’re spoiled!)
As for people with slow internet being screwed... yes, if it’s super slow, they may want to either hold off on Lion or go to a library with WiFi. But once they DO download it (a couple overnights?) we have no reason to think they are screwed for problem-solving in future. The details you’re assuming are just not known yet.
The double upgrade has to be annoying though, sitting through two OS installs? Ouch. I hope there's forthcoming information that makes it easier for those people.
The guy screaming for a $5 OS was having "entitlement" issues. I'm glad Lion's only $30 for a family license and happy to have been wrong.
Myself, like a lot of others, wanted resolution independence very much, so the rest of the os news don't sound that interesting.
Going from just the presentation, I found maybe a dozen productivity and usability enhancements, each of them good enough to be worth the $30 purchase. I had been wishing for some of those improvements in the desktop paradigm for a decade. It's unfortunate that Res Ind isn't there, but please, get real.
And so in order to use iCloud on my CD MacBook, I have to run Windows Vista or Windows 7. Nice. Just another nail in the coffin of my twenty-year relationship with Apple.
It is unfortunate your six year old computer won't do all the latest and greatest. These things happen sometimes.
The double upgrade has to be annoying though, sitting through two OS installs? Ouch. I hope there's forthcoming information that makes it easier for those people.
I don't think it's a concern for Apple or they would have offered an optical disc version at a later date (maybe sent off for pressing after the MAS version is added) and/or offered it for an increased price (there is increased cost for it.
If we look at the dates, since Lion is only for 64-bit Intel-based Macs that means we don't start that HW compatibility until August 2006, with the Mac Pro, but that is by no means when all Macs were capable were capable of running Lion. At the other end we have Snow Leopard being launched, June 8th, 2009, almost exactly 2 years ago which means every Mac sold since then came with Snow Leopard.
If we then consider the growth rate of Macs and the percentage of Leopard users is likely not vey big. Then if consider the reasons why someone who could have spent $29 on Snow Leopard has chosen to not update in the past two years we come out with an even smaller percentage.
And so in order to use iCloud on my CD MacBook, I have to run Windows Vista or Windows 7. Nice. Just another nail in the coffin of my twenty-year relationship with Apple.
"Remember that time in 1991 when I bought you that thing you always wanted? Well that's why I'm so hurt that you're treating me this way today. How could you do this to me?I know I've let myself go for the past 6 years but that doesn't mean you should give up on me. Maybe if you treated better I'd take better care of you in return."
Apple will likley have DVDs available at retail for Lion installs for Leopard owners, etc. Why wouldn't they?
Missed the ONLY part. Watched the keynote.
Notice Lion is only 4GB? Why? To fit on a single layer DVD! However, I guarantee that the install is still tied to your iTunes PW and cannot be used on more than 5 machines (not a guarantee).
Wrong again. It's likely 4GB because it is a differential update (not all of the OS is ever new).
Lion at retail will likely be $29, also. Apple is pushing to beat Windows at its own game - OS updates! It reduces confusion about which version to get.
Nope.
I pray Apple's servers are ready for 10 million downloads on day one for Lion. The servers would completely go down without that massive data center.
If I could blow myself, I'd never leave the house.
PC-free iPhone and iPad ownership is the way of the future. No backup if Apple has it on the cloud.
I hate the word cloud.
I need someone to figure out if Lion will actually run on a non-64-bit machine (such as the first Core Duo Macs). Or I need to sell my MacBook Pro CD.
Could it be that iTunes is how Apple is going to add copy-protection to its OS DVDs? Imagine if installing the OS required you to create an iTunes account? Perhaps the retail disk version does not require it (more likely).
No Lion DVDs. No copy protection needed. It's built into iTunes.
Not a flame: These two legacy applications have to have x86 alternatives by this point. They must.
Hey Skil: As mentioned below, Quicken 2007 is one. The other is a special app that came with my Fuji Finepix, which I bought new just a few months ago. As an avid amateur photographer, this is necessary for my "workflow." Since Fuji isn't in the business of developing software applications, my gut feeling is that Ballmer will resign before Fuji upgrades this app.
Booting from a recovery partition only works if the disk still works. Having an alternative boot option (media or thumb or ...) is essential.
If your disk fails, you restore from your backup.
It seems you?re making the assumption only regularly used partitions fail. What if the recovery partition gets hosed?
Disks fail. Files get corrupted. But I have never heard of partitions getting hosed. But if they do, you restore from your backup.
.
"Fahrwahr?" Honestly Drive?
Why not Feuerwehr?
Does anyone here still think that optical drives aren't on the way out?
Optical drives and splashes of colo(u)r! It's all gray these days.
Optical drives and splashes of colo(u)r! It's all gray these days.
My optical drive died 6 months ago and my internal drive with SL on it died 3 months later. I've been booting from a 10.5 Leopard external backup drive ever since. I can't get SL on the backup because I no longer have a working optical drive. I can get Applecare to fix everything, but haven't been able to be without a computer long enough to fix it. I guess now I'll have to make the time.
I was really saddened today when, for the first time, I couldn't watch the WWDC Keynote because Apple is now requiring 10.6 SL to view the keynote stream!
My optical drive died 6 months ago and my internal drive with SL on it died 3 months later. I've been booting from a 10.5 Leopard external backup drive ever since. I can't get SL on the backup because I no longer have a working optical drive. I can get Applecare to fix everything, but haven't been able to be without a computer long enough to fix it. I guess now I'll have to make the time.
I was really saddened today when, for the first time, I couldn't watch the WWDC Keynote because Apple is now requiring 10.6 SL to view the keynote stream!
You don't need to have an DVD to install SL. It's also possible that you can restore your external SL partition to the internal one using Disk Utility. I've gone disc-less for years now even going so far as to replace my ODD with an HDD.
It is unfortunate your six year old computer won't do all the latest and greatest. These things happen sometimes.
I'm not saying I expect my CD MacBook (five years and one month -- May 2006 was the first non-pro MacBook) to run every new thing that comes out. I just find it ironic that Apple supports the iCloud on my machine if I'm running Windows but not if I'm running OS X Snow Leopard. If they can bring the Mac App Store to Snow Leopard, why not iCloud?
"Fahrwahr?" Honestly Drive?
Why not Feuerwehr?
I was going for a particular dialect of pronouncing FireWire. I had a friend in college who was predestined to become an electrical engineer -- his childhood "security blanket" was a bundle of wires that he called his "wahrs" (or "warrs"? I'm trying to rhyme with bar). Maybe FarrWarr would have worked better.
"Remember that time in 1991 when I bought you that thing you always wanted? Well that's why I'm so hurt that you're treating me this way today. How could you do this to me?I know I've let myself go for the past 6 years but that doesn't mean you should give up on me. Maybe if you treated better I'd take better care of you in return."
At first I thought this was a movie / song / book reference, but since I mentioned 20 years, I now get it.
My reasons for leaving vary from the technological (dropping of features from the iPod nano 6G, a non-standard hard disk connector in the newest iMacs, the Lion / iCloud requirements) to the political (removal of certain apps from the iOS App Store, financial contributions) to the practical (I have to teach in Windows 7 and Office 2010, and the overhead of switching between operating systems makes me less efficient). I guess the middle is the strongest of the three: why should I contribute financially to a company that uses its clout to take a public stand against what I believe? It's a decision we all -- left, right, or center -- have to make about the companies we patronize. I know I'm not going to affect Apple's bottom line more than a infinitesimal fraction of a percent, but I believe that every penny counts.
It's a sad day when I find myself aligning myself with Microsoft rather than Apple (especially after subscribing to MacUser, MacWorld, and MacAddict / MacLife in the past) or Google ("don't be evil" -- yeah, right), but that's where I stand. I'm not saying Apple's products don't have some redeeming aspects to them -- all things considered, I prefer OS X, and I still find myself coming here to read about what Apple's doing -- but I'm trying to let principle rule over preference, even when it's difficult (I don't hit the mark every time, but I try). Adjusting to the concept of buying my next computer (still using the MacBook until it won't run) from one of the myriad of Windows PC vendors is overwhelming, but I'm more comfortable in Windows 7 than I was in earlier versions.
(This last bit is way OT, so please don't let this hijack the thread. I just wanted to say my piece, and the requirements for Lion and iCloud just opened an opportunity for a snarky comment that I felt deserved a more thorough explanation.)
Optical drives and splashes of colo(u)r! It's all gray these days.
You don't need to have an DVD to install SL. It's also possible that you can restore your external SL partition to the internal one using Disk Utility. I've gone disc-less for years now even going so far as to replace my ODD with an HDD.
That's interesting. I never knew that. My internal HD is hardware screwed though. The system only thinks it's a blank CD and doesn't even show up in Disk Utility. It's time to go to the Apple Store or an Applecare service provider. Neither of which is less than 95 miles from me.
Someone told me you can do a completely clean install. When you run the installer you can choose what disk to install to, and an empty disk is ok.
Yes, you can install it to any volume with the GUID partition table and enough space.
What I don't yet know is if you can install it will install from a pre-Snow Leopard OS by running the installer. Apple info may just be a blanket statement because you need the Mac App Store in Snow Leopard or later to download the installer.
That's interesting. I never knew that. My internal HD is hardware screwed though. The system only thinks it's a blank CD and doesn't even show up in Disk Utility. It's time to go to the Apple Store or an Applecare service provider. Neither of which is less than 95 miles from me.
There are external pioneer superdrives to be had at < $50. check google.
[regarding my comment about "Fahrwahr]I was going for a particular dialect of pronouncing FireWire. I had a friend in college who was predestined to become an electrical engineer -- his childhood "security blanket" was a bundle of wires that he called his "wahrs" (or "warrs"? I'm trying to rhyme with bar). Maybe FarrWarr would have worked better.
Ah, that's a decent enough explanation. You see, I was going for the German: "fahren" means to drive while "die Wahrheit" means truth or honesty, so I assumed it had to do with being an honest driver or something extremely complex like that. I'm getting slashed by Occam's Razor.
And we won't open the can of worms dealing with the German for entrance (Einfahrt) or even the quainter Swedish (Infart). Swear to God.
[Dick A: don't say a word!]