What about family members? Or do you actually think that people living in the same house should pay for multiple copies of the same content?
They definitely need to make it easy for this service to handle multiple users/multiple accounts.
I'm not saying it's good, I was just explaining how it works as far as I understand it.
I was being a bit sarcastic because I too thought that "Home Sharing" was basically sharing media amongst the inhabitants of my home and was upset to find out when I activated the feature that it really isn't that at all.
At least this is my understanding form the reading of the agreements and setting it up in my home. Everything has to be tied to one ID and the various inhabitants of the house "share" the stuff on that ID, but it still "really" belongs to the one ID only.
The only solution I can think of for folks in this position today, is that "Home sharing" does allow for you to copy files into other people's iTunes accounts. So if all the content under the one ID was copied into the various other iTunes accounts around the house before it was synced, then it might work.
In other words, maybe if you made an new iTunes account and ID for the daughter (or whomever), and then copied "her" stuff out of your iTunes installation, across the home network and into into her new iTunes account, and then synced to the new iCloud, the accounts would then be separate and working with all the stuff separate in her new account but still in your old account? Maybe?
That's still a terrible solution since it would require having so many copies of the same media. Apple REALLY needs to figure out a way to handle multiple users, multiple devices, and shared media versus media bought by just one person (not to mention things like playlists and play counts).
And anyone have 10.3 yet? AI, you need to start doing a little fact checking before posting stories.
...Apple REALLY needs to figure out a way to handle multiple users, multiple devices, and shared media versus media bought by just one person (not to mention things like playlists and play counts).....
Clearly we don't have all the facts yet. I just really want to know if members of a household who have been sharing an Apple ID will have to each get their own - and repurchase Apps, etc - to get the full benefits of iCloud.
I don't expect to have that answer today, so I'm going to stop talking about it.
Interesting points. There are a lot of scenarios where Apple, the record labels, TV/movie distributors, etc., will eventually need to have a policy and some sort of customer service mechanism for resolving:
1. Marriage -- Would Apple allow you to merge your accounts so you can combine your music and apps?
2. Divorce -- Does the judge award the account to somebody? Would Apple issue separate accounts that each have all of the content? Do you have to show Apple a copy of the divorce decree?
3. Sub-accounts for kids -- Would all of the purchases also show up on the parent account? Should that be a Yes/No option?
4. Migrated accounts for kids -- When a kid turns 18, can he take his sub account with him? Does the stuff disappear from the parent account?
Some of this sounds silly, but it's going to come up -- especially as the number of $1k-plus music/app data bases continues to increase.
What stands out the most here from this musing, is how awkward and complicated it gets if Apple allows people to share accounts.
I think the reasons you outline here are exactly *why* Apple doesn't really let you share accounts. How would a judge decide (or Apple for that matter), what stuff in "your" account, was "really" bought for your kids or your spouse so as to separate it off from your account after the divorce?
And since the accounts are free, how much work would Apple be letting itself in for if it had to divy up accounts and media files in such situations? The more I think about the practicalities of it, the more I think this will never happen ("true" sharing of accounts).
I think your account is your account and that's it, (regardless of whether you were "sharing" the media with other people in your household).
I wish apple would come up with sub accounts for use in iTunes so that I my kids could each have their own ID and pw and I could put so much of a credit on their account. That way they don't go overboard, but we can all share our purchases.
iOS devices can have content from more than one iTS account (5 is the limit as far as I remember). Your kids can have their own accounts and all apps can be shared.
Agree completely. I had an in depth conversation with an APple Store employee in Chicago a week ago about this. We use one iTunes apple account in our household. Between 2 iPads, 3 iphones, and 4 iPod Touches, we all use one apple ID for purchasing apps and music. I don't want to give my kids my Apple ID password for obvious reasons. Apple does have the mobileme family plan which we have and I'm curious to see what happens with the iCloud announcement.
I wish apple would come up with sub accounts for use in iTunes so that I my kids could each have their own ID and pw and I could put so much of a credit on their account. That way they don't go overboard, but we can all share our purchases.
I like your idea. Hopefully Apple is thinking along the same line of thought if not better.
It's easier if the parents just set up the kids own account. Give the kids Itunes gift cards if you want them to have money to purchase things on their iOS device.
That's still a terrible solution since it would require having so many copies of the same media. Apple REALLY needs to figure out a way to handle multiple users, multiple devices, and shared media versus media bought by just one person (not to mention things like playlists and play counts).
And anyone have 10.3 yet? AI, you need to start doing a little fact checking before posting stories.
This is a rumors site. WTF? \ You are bringing down the curve for everyone.
Agree completely. I had an in depth conversation with an APple Store employee in Chicago a week ago about this. We use one iTunes apple account in our household. Between 2 iPads, 3 iphones, and 4 iPod Touches, we all use one apple ID for purchasing apps and music. I don't want to give my kids my Apple ID password for obvious reasons. Apple does have the mobileme family plan which we have and I'm curious to see what happens with the iCloud announcement.
I wish apple would come up with sub accounts for use in iTunes so that I my kids could each have their own ID and pw and I could put so much of a credit on their account. That way they don't go overboard, but we can all share our purchases.
What stands out the most here from this musing, is how awkward and complicated it gets if Apple allows people to share accounts.
I think the reasons you outline here are exactly *why* Apple doesn't really let you share accounts. How would a judge decide (or Apple for that matter), what stuff in "your" account, was "really" bought for your kids or your spouse so as to separate it off from your account after the divorce?
And since the accounts are free, how much work would Apple be letting itself in for if it had to divy up accounts and media files in such situations? The more I think about the practicalities of it, the more I think this will never happen ("true" sharing of accounts).
I think your account is your account and that's it, (regardless of whether you were "sharing" the media with other people in your household).
But this in no way comports with reality of daily life. In the 1990s, did you go buy a CD, and then if your spouse liked it he/she would go buy the same CD? No, you'd just trade it back and forth, or copy a cassette off the CD, etc. One purchase, multiple listeners in multiple settings.
In our case, I was given an iPod as a gift years ago, and so ripped all our CDs (mine, his, ours) into iTunes, under my AppleID. Then got him a Nano for Xmas, but it uses the files that I originally saved to iTunes (I presume its linked to my AppleID, then). Then he gets an iPhone and opens his own AppleID, etc. - it becomes a bit of a who-owns-what mess, but it doesn't make sense that we have to parse every music track and app just on the basis of which account happened to purchase it in a household.
The new iTunes agreement states that "a device can only be associated with one account at a time". That seems to mean no more sharing of music if you want a separate iCloud each. It also possibly rules out the ability to put songs purchased on different accounts on one device as you can now...
iOS devices can have content from more than one iTS account (5 is the limit as far as I remember). Your kids can have their own accounts and all apps can be shared.
You're the second person I've seen posting that info - I had no idea. Maybe I have nothing to worry about...
The new iTunes agreement states that "a device can only be associated with one account at a time". That seems to mean no more sharing of music if you want a separate iCloud each. It also possibly rules out the ability to put songs purchased on different accounts on one device as you can now...
What would make you think you could have one master account and multiple user accounts with all that file space from the cloud?
What stands out the most here from this musing, is how awkward and complicated it gets if Apple allows people to share accounts.
I think the reasons you outline here are exactly *why* Apple doesn't really let you share accounts. How would a judge decide (or Apple for that matter), what stuff in "your" account, was "really" bought for your kids or your spouse so as to separate it off from your account after the divorce?
And since the accounts are free, how much work would Apple be letting itself in for if it had to divy up accounts and media files in such situations? The more I think about the practicalities of it, the more I think this will never happen ("true" sharing of accounts).
I think your account is your account and that's it, (regardless of whether you were "sharing" the media with other people in your household).
To me, it should be Multiple IDs sharing a 'single' account (credit card account). The master ID (the one sharing the name on the Credit Card), can assign who to share the account data with.
Eventually, I'd like to see IDs have some sort of access control (mom/dad can keep all the R[ahem] rated movied to themselves;-)), ala ACLs. Children's files in the cloud can be soft locked, but the parents can get the key to unlock, if the proper paperwork is filed (where children have the right of privacy from their parents... in some states that may be as young as 12). Yes that is work, but it's rare. much less rare than having kids that want to share data, and you don't want them to have the password to your credit card enabled account.
I'd love to give each of my kids an ID (and ideally a separate account for their gift cards) with read access nto my ITMS, ideally some sort of spending/auth limit per ID (you can spend $5/month without me needing to approve) and my wife (okay, you get more than $5) as well. And be able to peel off my kids as they reach the age of adulthood. At that point, the 'separation of assets' has to occur. Apple doesn't care, and it could be as easy as 'sync content to your iDevice [in full], create a new account, adhere your ID to that account, assign account to iDevice, upload' Remember, all this stuff is DRM free now.
As for divorce... well to the age of marital assets including 'digital property' (you get the paypal account, and I get iTunes). Again, Apple doesn't care if the dissolution has some assets that get 'copied' (DRM Free). From what I know of divorce... anything that has no 'real' value is counted as $0.00.
What would make you think you could have one master account and multiple user accounts with all that file space from the cloud?
People are discussing wanting to have some kind of separate iCloud for each person (i.e. people living in their house) sharing their ID for music. I'm just trying to clarify that Apple has really ruled it out with the agreement. Many people share their music with their partner, just as you would if you went and purchased a physical CD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
I've never heard of his info in the four years iOS has existed. I'd be wary.
It's not a lie, I have purchases from two separate account synced to my iPad and iPhone.
People are discussing wanting to have some kind of separate iCloud for each person (i.e. people living in their house) sharing their ID for music. I'm just trying to clarify that Apple has really ruled it out with the agreement. Many people share their music with their partner, just as you would if you went and purchased a physical CD.
It's not a lie, I have purchases from two separate account synced to my iPad and iPhone.
And when the sharing model moves from the Local Net sharing to the Distributed Many-to-Many model the living in the same house under a One-To-Many shared [NATing] approach to file sharing would result into two options:
The creation of a Master Account [M] with sharing ala the Telcos Family Plan or each member of the family needs to set up their own iCloud account [5GB] [Node=N] and to share [virtually expand their total Music Pool via one virtual drive] that gives one access to M more accounts as an N+M account would require a separate Monthly Service Tier that would have to be flushed out and scaled accordingly.
I sure as hell wouldn't provide cloud services to a Family who buys one 5GB account and then give them M more accounts, each with 5GB, to extend their total account and not get financially compensated. Would you?
Comments
What about family members? Or do you actually think that people living in the same house should pay for multiple copies of the same content?
They definitely need to make it easy for this service to handle multiple users/multiple accounts.
I'm not saying it's good, I was just explaining how it works as far as I understand it.
I was being a bit sarcastic because I too thought that "Home Sharing" was basically sharing media amongst the inhabitants of my home and was upset to find out when I activated the feature that it really isn't that at all.
At least this is my understanding form the reading of the agreements and setting it up in my home. Everything has to be tied to one ID and the various inhabitants of the house "share" the stuff on that ID, but it still "really" belongs to the one ID only.
The only solution I can think of for folks in this position today, is that "Home sharing" does allow for you to copy files into other people's iTunes accounts. So if all the content under the one ID was copied into the various other iTunes accounts around the house before it was synced, then it might work.
In other words, maybe if you made an new iTunes account and ID for the daughter (or whomever), and then copied "her" stuff out of your iTunes installation, across the home network and into into her new iTunes account, and then synced to the new iCloud, the accounts would then be separate and working with all the stuff separate in her new account but still in your old account? Maybe?
And anyone have 10.3 yet? AI, you need to start doing a little fact checking before posting stories.
...Apple REALLY needs to figure out a way to handle multiple users, multiple devices, and shared media versus media bought by just one person (not to mention things like playlists and play counts).....
Clearly we don't have all the facts yet. I just really want to know if members of a household who have been sharing an Apple ID will have to each get their own - and repurchase Apps, etc - to get the full benefits of iCloud.
I don't expect to have that answer today, so I'm going to stop talking about it.
Interesting points. There are a lot of scenarios where Apple, the record labels, TV/movie distributors, etc., will eventually need to have a policy and some sort of customer service mechanism for resolving:
1. Marriage -- Would Apple allow you to merge your accounts so you can combine your music and apps?
2. Divorce -- Does the judge award the account to somebody? Would Apple issue separate accounts that each have all of the content? Do you have to show Apple a copy of the divorce decree?
3. Sub-accounts for kids -- Would all of the purchases also show up on the parent account? Should that be a Yes/No option?
4. Migrated accounts for kids -- When a kid turns 18, can he take his sub account with him? Does the stuff disappear from the parent account?
Some of this sounds silly, but it's going to come up -- especially as the number of $1k-plus music/app data bases continues to increase.
What stands out the most here from this musing, is how awkward and complicated it gets if Apple allows people to share accounts.
I think the reasons you outline here are exactly *why* Apple doesn't really let you share accounts. How would a judge decide (or Apple for that matter), what stuff in "your" account, was "really" bought for your kids or your spouse so as to separate it off from your account after the divorce?
And since the accounts are free, how much work would Apple be letting itself in for if it had to divy up accounts and media files in such situations? The more I think about the practicalities of it, the more I think this will never happen ("true" sharing of accounts).
I think your account is your account and that's it, (regardless of whether you were "sharing" the media with other people in your household).
I wish apple would come up with sub accounts for use in iTunes so that I my kids could each have their own ID and pw and I could put so much of a credit on their account. That way they don't go overboard, but we can all share our purchases.
iOS devices can have content from more than one iTS account (5 is the limit as far as I remember). Your kids can have their own accounts and all apps can be shared.
Agree completely. I had an in depth conversation with an APple Store employee in Chicago a week ago about this. We use one iTunes apple account in our household. Between 2 iPads, 3 iphones, and 4 iPod Touches, we all use one apple ID for purchasing apps and music. I don't want to give my kids my Apple ID password for obvious reasons. Apple does have the mobileme family plan which we have and I'm curious to see what happens with the iCloud announcement.
I wish apple would come up with sub accounts for use in iTunes so that I my kids could each have their own ID and pw and I could put so much of a credit on their account. That way they don't go overboard, but we can all share our purchases.
I like your idea. Hopefully Apple is thinking along the same line of thought if not better.
That's still a terrible solution since it would require having so many copies of the same media. Apple REALLY needs to figure out a way to handle multiple users, multiple devices, and shared media versus media bought by just one person (not to mention things like playlists and play counts).
And anyone have 10.3 yet? AI, you need to start doing a little fact checking before posting stories.
This is a rumors site. WTF?
Agree completely. I had an in depth conversation with an APple Store employee in Chicago a week ago about this. We use one iTunes apple account in our household. Between 2 iPads, 3 iphones, and 4 iPod Touches, we all use one apple ID for purchasing apps and music. I don't want to give my kids my Apple ID password for obvious reasons. Apple does have the mobileme family plan which we have and I'm curious to see what happens with the iCloud announcement.
I wish apple would come up with sub accounts for use in iTunes so that I my kids could each have their own ID and pw and I could put so much of a credit on their account. That way they don't go overboard, but we can all share our purchases.
Actually you can create sub-accounts on iTunes. It's called iTunes Allowance. Instructions are here: http://support.apple.com/kb/ht2105
I'm still seeing 10.2.2.
What stands out the most here from this musing, is how awkward and complicated it gets if Apple allows people to share accounts.
I think the reasons you outline here are exactly *why* Apple doesn't really let you share accounts. How would a judge decide (or Apple for that matter), what stuff in "your" account, was "really" bought for your kids or your spouse so as to separate it off from your account after the divorce?
And since the accounts are free, how much work would Apple be letting itself in for if it had to divy up accounts and media files in such situations? The more I think about the practicalities of it, the more I think this will never happen ("true" sharing of accounts).
I think your account is your account and that's it, (regardless of whether you were "sharing" the media with other people in your household).
But this in no way comports with reality of daily life. In the 1990s, did you go buy a CD, and then if your spouse liked it he/she would go buy the same CD? No, you'd just trade it back and forth, or copy a cassette off the CD, etc. One purchase, multiple listeners in multiple settings.
In our case, I was given an iPod as a gift years ago, and so ripped all our CDs (mine, his, ours) into iTunes, under my AppleID. Then got him a Nano for Xmas, but it uses the files that I originally saved to iTunes (I presume its linked to my AppleID, then). Then he gets an iPhone and opens his own AppleID, etc. - it becomes a bit of a who-owns-what mess, but it doesn't make sense that we have to parse every music track and app just on the basis of which account happened to purchase it in a household.
iOS devices can have content from more than one iTS account (5 is the limit as far as I remember). Your kids can have their own accounts and all apps can be shared.
You're the second person I've seen posting that info - I had no idea. Maybe I have nothing to worry about...
The new iTunes agreement states that "a device can only be associated with one account at a time". That seems to mean no more sharing of music if you want a separate iCloud each. It also possibly rules out the ability to put songs purchased on different accounts on one device as you can now...
What would make you think you could have one master account and multiple user accounts with all that file space from the cloud?
You're the second person I've seen posting that info - I had no idea. Maybe I have nothing to worry about...
I've never heard of his info in the four years iOS has existed. I'd be wary.
What stands out the most here from this musing, is how awkward and complicated it gets if Apple allows people to share accounts.
I think the reasons you outline here are exactly *why* Apple doesn't really let you share accounts. How would a judge decide (or Apple for that matter), what stuff in "your" account, was "really" bought for your kids or your spouse so as to separate it off from your account after the divorce?
And since the accounts are free, how much work would Apple be letting itself in for if it had to divy up accounts and media files in such situations? The more I think about the practicalities of it, the more I think this will never happen ("true" sharing of accounts).
I think your account is your account and that's it, (regardless of whether you were "sharing" the media with other people in your household).
To me, it should be Multiple IDs sharing a 'single' account (credit card account). The master ID (the one sharing the name on the Credit Card), can assign who to share the account data with.
Eventually, I'd like to see IDs have some sort of access control (mom/dad can keep all the R[ahem] rated movied to themselves;-)), ala ACLs. Children's files in the cloud can be soft locked, but the parents can get the key to unlock, if the proper paperwork is filed (where children have the right of privacy from their parents... in some states that may be as young as 12). Yes that is work, but it's rare. much less rare than having kids that want to share data, and you don't want them to have the password to your credit card enabled account.
I'd love to give each of my kids an ID (and ideally a separate account for their gift cards) with read access nto my ITMS, ideally some sort of spending/auth limit per ID (you can spend $5/month without me needing to approve) and my wife (okay, you get more than $5) as well. And be able to peel off my kids as they reach the age of adulthood. At that point, the 'separation of assets' has to occur. Apple doesn't care, and it could be as easy as 'sync content to your iDevice [in full], create a new account, adhere your ID to that account, assign account to iDevice, upload' Remember, all this stuff is DRM free now.
As for divorce... well to the age of marital assets including 'digital property' (you get the paypal account, and I get iTunes). Again, Apple doesn't care if the dissolution has some assets that get 'copied' (DRM Free). From what I know of divorce... anything that has no 'real' value is counted as $0.00.
What would make you think you could have one master account and multiple user accounts with all that file space from the cloud?
People are discussing wanting to have some kind of separate iCloud for each person (i.e. people living in their house) sharing their ID for music. I'm just trying to clarify that Apple has really ruled it out with the agreement. Many people share their music with their partner, just as you would if you went and purchased a physical CD.
I've never heard of his info in the four years iOS has existed. I'd be wary.
It's not a lie, I have purchases from two separate account synced to my iPad and iPhone.
I'll echo the earlier question: Has anyone actually succeeded in getting iTunes 10.3?
I'm still seeing 10.2.2.
Same problem here. I am still disappoint.
People are discussing wanting to have some kind of separate iCloud for each person (i.e. people living in their house) sharing their ID for music. I'm just trying to clarify that Apple has really ruled it out with the agreement. Many people share their music with their partner, just as you would if you went and purchased a physical CD.
It's not a lie, I have purchases from two separate account synced to my iPad and iPhone.
And when the sharing model moves from the Local Net sharing to the Distributed Many-to-Many model the living in the same house under a One-To-Many shared [NATing] approach to file sharing would result into two options:
The creation of a Master Account [M] with sharing ala the Telcos Family Plan or each member of the family needs to set up their own iCloud account [5GB] [Node=N] and to share [virtually expand their total Music Pool via one virtual drive] that gives one access to M more accounts as an N+M account would require a separate Monthly Service Tier that would have to be flushed out and scaled accordingly.
I sure as hell wouldn't provide cloud services to a Family who buys one 5GB account and then give them M more accounts, each with 5GB, to extend their total account and not get financially compensated. Would you?
I've never heard of his info in the four years iOS has existed. I'd be wary.
An iOS device can have content from 5 iTS accounts at the same time.
http://www.apple.com/legal/itunes/us/terms.html
"You shall be able to store App Store Products from up to five different Accounts at a time on a compatible iOS Device."