Wall Street expects iCloud to drive sales of Apple's iOS devices

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  • Reply 41 of 67
    prof. peabodyprof. peabody Posts: 2,860member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacTac View Post


    Not for me. I'm still looking for the mid sized Mac I want. Without the Apple computer that meets my needs I'm not about to spend money on any of Apple's other products.



    I'm an 18 year Mac user waiting for my next Mac. Only then will I begin to take a look at anything else from Apple.



    This sounds like BS to me.



    If you are a Mac user since 1993, then unless you started off with a clone and kept it all this time, you've never seen Apple produce anything but the same kind of computers they produce today. Desktop all-in-ones and towers.



    Only an idiot would wait for 18 years for a company to produce a computer that they have expressly mentioned they won't ever make and that there isn't a market for anyway. If you have used other computers in between (instead of using a power computing mini-tower clone for 18 years), then your statement about being an "18 year Mac user" is disingenuous at best.



    It seems to me that you are just one of those people that like to complain and not really a consumer of Apple products in the first place, so why should anyone care what you think about them? in any case, what you personally want, is by your own description, completely at odds with what the rest of the computer buying public wants, so again ... why should anyone care?
  • Reply 42 of 67
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post




    I have wondered for YEARS why Apple stock goes DOWN after a KeyNote and or quarterly report in which they report all time high records for unit sales and iTunes sales and customer numbers and profit margin etc.



    Ever heard of Buy the rumour, Sell the news...!?
  • Reply 43 of 67
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post


    The broader indexes are up 34% in the last year? Because Apple stock is, right?



    Chart AAPL against any broad market index you like for the last three months and then get back to me.
  • Reply 44 of 67
    prof. peabodyprof. peabody Posts: 2,860member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    The analysts don't get it because they are forecasting stock performance that has virtually no chance of occurring unless the market perception of AAPL changes radically for the better. Since the breakdown in optimism for the stock has been proceeding steadily for the last 6-9 months now, I think it would be helpful to any AAPL bull's argument at this point to show what event or events will change that perception, rather than just tell us that the bullish analysts aren't bullish enough.. ...



    Agreed. The thing to remember also with analysts is that basically, it's their job to explain computers and the computer business to people who know absolutely nothing about them, even though the analysts themselves probably know less about computers and the computer business than anyone who is actively involved with it. So it's a classic "blind leading the blind" situation, or at least the severely vision impaired leading the blind anyway.



    Most of these guys are just performing a basic graduate school business analysis on some figures they were handed. Insight, knowledge, and all that other good stuff rarely has anything to do with it.
  • Reply 45 of 67
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post


    Agreed. The thing to remember also with analysts is that basically, it's their job to explain computers and the computer business to people who know absolutely nothing about them, even though the analysts themselves probably know less about computers and the computer business than anyone who is actively involved with it. So it's a classic "blind leading the blind" situation, or at least the severely vision impaired leading the blind anyway.



    Most of these guys are just performing a basic graduate school business analysis on some figures they were handed. Insight, knowledge, and all that other good stuff rarely has anything to do with it.



    They are supposed to be running the numbers, not explaining technology. They don't need more than a rudimentary understanding of the technology to do their jobs. What's more, the modeling formula is far simpler than most will let on. It involves only three variables: revenue projections, margin projections, and earnings multiples. Even the worst of them actually tend to get the first two pretty close to the mark. Where everybody is falling flat right now is on the multiples. The forward PE for AAPL is now under 12, which means it's being priced by the markets as a non-growth company. Go ex-cash and the forward PE is in single digits. So how do you change the market's apparent perception that AAPL is no longer a growth story? Beats the hell out of me. I'd sure like to see one of these analysts who are forecasting $500 in a year explain it.
  • Reply 46 of 67
    payecopayeco Posts: 517member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacTac View Post


    Not for me. I'm still looking for the mid sized Mac I want. Without the Apple computer that meets my needs I'm not about to spend money on any of Apple's other products.



    I'm an 18 year Mac user waiting for my next Mac. Only then will I begin to take a look at anything else from Apple.



    If you mean a midsize desktop you might as well move on then. They stated in the keynote that 3/4 of all Mac sales now are notebooks. They're not going to waste resources creating a "Mac Pro lite" that almost no one is going to buy.
  • Reply 47 of 67
    lilgto64lilgto64 Posts: 1,147member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by payeco View Post


    If you mean a midsize desktop you might as well move on then. They stated in the keynote that 3/4 of all Mac sales now are notebooks. They're not going to waste resources creating a "Mac Pro lite" that almost no one is going to buy.



    I agree - if you need the power and can't afford the price of a full tower - get a used one that is a couple years old.



    I have bought new and used and refurb over the years - it all depends on what compromises you are able or wiling to make.
  • Reply 48 of 67
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,323member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    AAPL has been substantially underperforming the markets for the last 6-9 months. The price targets from the analysts in the $450 range are beginning to look like a sick joke and the ones in the $500-600 range appear to be the result of pharmaceutical abuse.



    You're being too harsh. Nothing in known finance or economics allows you to say "what" and "when" at the same time.
  • Reply 49 of 67
    cpsrocpsro Posts: 2,995member
    Wake me up when the data are encrypted in the cloud, too.
  • Reply 50 of 67
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    You're being too harsh. Nothing in known finance or economics allows you to say "what" and "when" at the same time.



    The analyst's price targets are both "what" and "when" forecasts.
  • Reply 51 of 67
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,323member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    The analyst's price targets are both "what" and "when" forecasts.



    Perhaps you missed my point. That's exactly what I said.
  • Reply 52 of 67
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    Perhaps you missed my point. That's exactly what I said.



    Apparently I did miss your point. Are you saying that all analyst forecasts should be ignored?
  • Reply 53 of 67
    mactacmactac Posts: 315member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Morky View Post


    I agreed with that sentiment when iMacs were underpowered, but they no longer are. The mid-sized option is now represented in the iMac lineup.



    Except for those of us that hate all in ones and will never buy all in ones. What is mid sized by having to go with a 27 inch screen in order to have the fastest processor? That's not mid sized. That's big! Not everyone wants or needs a huge screen. What I want and need is an easy to open Mac that has room for two internal hard drives and an optical drive and has some jacks and slots on the front like the Mac Pro that lets me use the monitor I already have.



    That is mid sized and mid range.
  • Reply 54 of 67
    They are charlatans with cracked crystal balls.
  • Reply 55 of 67
    mactacmactac Posts: 315member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by payeco View Post


    If you mean a midsize desktop you might as well move on then. They stated in the keynote that 3/4 of all Mac sales now are notebooks. They're not going to waste resources creating a "Mac Pro lite" that almost no one is going to buy.



    Maybe they don't sell as many desktops because they refuse to sell the right type of desktop.

    I do not want or need portability so no laptop or iPad for me.

    I do not like all in ones and the limitations that come with them so no iMac for me.

    The Mini is $699 does not meet my needs.

    The Mac Pro is $2499 and huge and costs a lot of money.



    Were is the $1500 product that fits in that gap? The iMac isn't it. I have plenty of money for a Mac that meets my needs. I don't have money to waste on something that isn't going to work for me.



    Apple proclaimed "Back to the Mac" and if anything we are seeing less attention than ever.
  • Reply 56 of 67
    mactacmactac Posts: 315member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post


    I agree - if you need the power and can't afford the price of a full tower - get a used one that is a couple years old.



    It's not just the money it is the size. Why buy twice the computer I need by getting the Mac Pro?

    Why buy half the computer I need by getting the Mini?



    I need and want the Mac that ought to be filling the gap between the two of them. But Apple keeps throwing the limitations of an all in one at me instead of offering a real choice.
  • Reply 57 of 67
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,323member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    Apparently I did miss your point. Are you saying that all analyst forecasts should be ignored?



    No. Sometimes, they contain useful industry or competitive information that are not easy to obtain.
  • Reply 58 of 67
    11thindian11thindian Posts: 181member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacTac View Post


    Maybe they don't sell as many desktops because they refuse to sell the right type of desktop.

    I do not want or need portability so no laptop or iPad for me.

    I do not like all in ones and the limitations that come with them so no iMac for me.

    The Mini is $699 does not meet my needs.

    The Mac Pro is $2499 and huge and costs a lot of money.



    Were is the $1500 product that fits in that gap? The iMac isn't it. I have plenty of money for a Mac that meets my needs. I don't have money to waste on something that isn't going to work for me.



    Apple proclaimed "Back to the Mac" and if anything we are seeing less attention than ever.



    I'm sorry but I just don't think that's the case. Apple has narrowed in on the machines that meet the needs of 90-95% of the market, or at least what they want for their market. Just as Apple could conceivable capture much more market share by creating a $300 Mac, dabbling in the low end isn't in their interests. And neither is trying to cater to the niches between their existing 3 desktop offerings.



    It's up to YOU to either reconcile your issues with those offerings. Either make a compromise on size/price or flexibility. Your only other option is to move to another OS.



    If you wait for Apple to deliver what you've described, you'll be waiting forever.
  • Reply 59 of 67
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    No. Sometimes, they contain useful industry or competitive information that are not easy to obtain.



    Sometimes. Rarely. As I mentioned, the formula for these projections isn't nuclear physics. The big assumption in the variables is the multiples. I'd be interested to hear any one of these analysts describe their rationale for increasing multiples when they've done little but decrease for AAPL in the recent past. Investor sentiments can change obviously, but generally not that much or that quickly.
  • Reply 60 of 67
    twelvetwelve Posts: 49member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacTac View Post


    Not for me. I'm still looking for the mid sized Mac I want. Without the Apple computer that meets my needs I'm not about to spend money on any of Apple's other products.



    I'm an 18 year Mac user waiting for my next Mac. Only then will I begin to take a look at anything else from Apple.



    What do you consider "mid-sized"?



    Apple is focusing on mobile/cloud computing. In this model, laptops, iPad's and iPhone's are most common, with iMac's, Mini's and the occasional Mac Pro holding down the fort at home. Apple TV's and Time Capsules provide support services.



    Especially now that there's Thunderbolt, I can't imagine what a "mid-size" computer would be. A Sandy Bridge quad-core has more computing power than any home user can ever take advantage of.



    Are you looking for the ability to plug in PCI-E adapters? 99.9% of users have never opened the box. With Thunderbolt, you don't need to anyhow. So there's no point in having a "small tower" form factor.



    The only issue I have with Apple is their dropping XServe, but I now see their focus is elsewhere, and it makes complete sense. Unless you need two processor sockets, the XServe and Mac Pro are no more potent than a Sandy Bridge MacBook Pro or Mac Mini.



    Either you're doing heavy duty computing and/or video editing, which means Mac Pro, or a MacBook Pro/Mini/iMac with Thunderbolt does anything you could ever want to do.



    Please explain why asking for a "mid-sized computer" isn't like asking Apple to put in a combo 5 1/4"/3.5" floppy drive.
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