Wall Street expects iCloud to drive sales of Apple's iOS devices

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  • Reply 61 of 67
    twelvetwelve Posts: 49member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacTac View Post


    It's not just the money it is the size. Why buy twice the computer I need by getting the Mac Pro?

    Why buy half the computer I need by getting the Mini?



    I need and want the Mac that ought to be filling the gap between the two of them. But Apple keeps throwing the limitations of an all in one at me instead of offering a real choice.



    Seriously, what is the NEED you have? What are you unable to do with a Sandy Bridge-based quad-core Mac Mini, which will be announced in the near future? What are you unable to do even with today's dual-core Core-based Mac Mini?



    Which "half" is missing from the Mini? How is a Mac Pro "twice" the computer you need? Are you looking for drive bays? PCI-E slots? You want to be able to plug in graphics adapters? Please be specific. I genuinely want to understand.



    A Mini + a 6-bay Thunderbolt NAS is cheaper than a Mac Pro and has even more capability.
  • Reply 62 of 67
    I agree. I just noticed a few minutes ago that microsoft was up.06 vs. apple down over $5.00 !?
  • Reply 63 of 67
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,323member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    The big assumption in the variables is the multiples. I'd be interested to hear any one of these analysts describe their rationale for increasing multiples when they've done little but decrease for AAPL in the recent past. Investor sentiments can change obviously, but generally not that much or that quickly.



    Multiples themselves are nothing more than a reflection of the market's assessment of a company's growth-adjusted discount rate.



    For example, the forward P/E ratio is simply 1/(rE - g) where rE is the company's expected return on equity and 'g' is the market's expectation of long-run annual growth rate in earnings.



    Either or both of those can can change on a dime, so investor sentiment can change in a flash. Moreover, since they themselves are a function of exogenous variables like treasury bond yields (i.e., what the Fed does), equity risk premia (i.e., the general attitude towards and tolerance for risk in equity markets), not to mention firm-specific risks and cash flow prospects. The confluence of all these confounds things even more.



    More generally, there are expectations concerning important market and firm-level fundamentals that are constantly changing, than just some generic 'market sentiment' that you keep referring to (dismissively, I might add) in a lot of your posts.
  • Reply 64 of 67
    yensid98yensid98 Posts: 311member
    Honestly, besides the synching of documents between my devices, I'm not that jazzed about iCloud. I guess I can see where some may be enamored of it enough to buy into the Apple ecosystem, but something tells me it's more a convenience for those already in it.



    Contacts, calendar, email, bookmarks, iBookmarks sync is something I already enjoy so it's tough to get too jazzed about it. The music sync feature may be good, but I hope to get the customization of a hard sync. I've grown accustomed to tailoring my music to specific devices. The photo sync will be real helpful, though I'm not too concrete on the specifics of the feature.



    I guess it all boils down to iCloud not being nearly as exciting to me as the iOS 5 and Lion announcements.
  • Reply 65 of 67
    mactacmactac Posts: 315member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Twelve View Post


    Seriously, what is the NEED you have? What are you unable to do with a Sandy Bridge-based quad-core Mac Mini, which will be announced in the near future? What are you unable to do even with today's dual-core Core-based Mac Mini?



    Which "half" is missing from the Mini? How is a Mac Pro "twice" the computer you need? Are you looking for drive bays? PCI-E slots? You want to be able to plug in graphics adapters? Please be specific. I genuinely want to understand.



    A Mini + a 6-bay Thunderbolt NAS is cheaper than a Mac Pro and has even more capability.



    I like internal devices. I like to back up my data. I use an optical drive. I want to use the monitor I already have. Show me a Mac other than the Mac Pro that has room for two internal hard drives, an optical drive and lets me use the monitor I have. The Mac Pro does have a couple of features going for it that no other Mac does. It is easy to open and has some jacks on the front.



    Apple has traded in function over form and is throwing designs at us that have components packed in like it was a can of sardines.

    Apple wants all to fawn all over its designs that it goes to great time and expense perfecting and then forces us to buy external devices that detract from those designs because it refuses to offer a model other than the $2499 Mac Pro that has any room inside the case.



    It makes no sense. You would think that out of all the consumer model choices Apple would offer just one that had a little bit of expandability and simple logical features like an easy to open case and some jacks on the front. The Mac Pro is the only computer Apple has where function comes first. but it still looks good to boot. All I want is a consumer level Mac that is made with the same balance between form and function.



    I intend to use my computer not let it sit there like a piece of art.
  • Reply 66 of 67
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    Multiples themselves are nothing more than a reflection of the market's assessment of a company's growth-adjusted discount rate.



    For example, the forward P/E ratio is simply 1/(rE - g) where rE is the company's expected return on equity and 'g' is the market's expectation of long-run annual growth rate in earnings.



    Either or both of those can can change on a dime, so investor sentiment can change in a flash. Moreover, since they themselves are a function of exogenous variables like treasury bond yields (i.e., what the Fed does), equity risk premia (i.e., the general attitude towards and tolerance for risk in equity markets), not to mention firm-specific risks and cash flow prospects. The confluence of all these confounds things even more.



    More generally, there are expectations concerning important market and firm-level fundamentals that are constantly changing, than just some generic 'market sentiment' that you keep referring to (dismissively, I might add) in a lot of your posts.



    I know exactly what PE is, and I suspect you know I know. They rarely change significantly "on a dime" -- they trend, precisely because they are representation of investor sentiments. Put it this way: for the sentiments on AAPL to return to investor sentiments of only a year ago, the value of the shares would have to move up to around $450. That would be changing on a dime. Good luck with that. Market sentiment is fundamentally generic, even as you have defined it. It is non-specific, based on general perceptions of earnings growth prospects. AAPL has not been moving crosswise with the markets for months now due to "exogenous variables," it is moving downwards relative to the markets due to declining investor sentiments regarding this particular stock. Just because we think it's wrong doesn't make it untrue.
  • Reply 67 of 67
    twelvetwelve Posts: 49member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacTac View Post


    I like internal devices. I like to back up my data. I use an optical drive. I want to use the monitor I already have. Show me a Mac other than the Mac Pro that has room for two internal hard drives, an optical drive and lets me use the monitor I have. The Mac Pro does have a couple of features going for it that no other Mac does. It is easy to open and has some jacks on the front.



    Apple has traded in function over form and is throwing designs at us that have components packed in like it was a can of sardines.

    Apple wants all to fawn all over its designs that it goes to great time and expense perfecting and then forces us to buy external devices that detract from those designs because it refuses to offer a model other than the $2499 Mac Pro that has any room inside the case.



    It makes no sense. You would think that out of all the consumer model choices Apple would offer just one that had a little bit of expandability and simple logical features like an easy to open case and some jacks on the front. The Mac Pro is the only computer Apple has where function comes first. but it still looks good to boot. All I want is a consumer level Mac that is made with the same balance between form and function.



    I intend to use my computer not let it sit there like a piece of art.



    Let's go a bit farther. What's important to Apple is whether there's a reasonably sized market and whether there are needs that can't reasonably be met otherwise.







    Allow me to gather a bit more information.



    It sounds as though the internal devices you need are an optical drive for backup and at least two HDD. You've also expressed that you would like to continue using your current monitor. You made no mention of needing PCI-E slots, hardware RAID or multiple processor sockets. Does this summarize your request?



    Is your current monitor ADC or does it use one of the more standard connectors (VGA, DVI, miniDisplayPort, HDMI)?



    Since you use your ODD for backups, may I presume that you seldom have more than 4.7GB of data to backup? Also, do you seldom need to store your data for longer than 5 years (the life expectancy of most consumer-grade DVD-R's)?



    The Sandy Bridge-based Mac Mini Server is very likely to ship with two HDD's and is user-serviceable for memory upgrades and hard disk replacements. It also has a Thunderbolt port which, with an inexpensive adapter from Apple or Kanex, can connect to most any VGA, DVI or HDMI monitor. Thunderbolt is also directly compatible with DisplayPort. The latest SuperDrive ODD stacks nicely on top and shares the same form factor. The Mini Server also has analog and optical audio in/out jacks built in. The new version may also keep the HDMI port, which can be used for a second monitor.



    True, the ODD is not built-in, but I believe this meets all your other requirements. The Sandy Bridge-based Mac Mini has not been announced yet, but we can reasonably assume that the prices will be the same as or at least similar to the Core 2 Duo-based Mac Mini.



    http://www.apple.com/macmini/server/specs.html



    Mac Mini Server w/dual 500GB 7200 RPM HDD - $999

    Kanex adapter for your current monitor - $14 (VGA) to $39(DVI)

    SuperDrive - $79

    Dual 1TB or dual 1.5TB drives may also be available as BTO.



    For under $1100, you're set! You can keep your current monitor and even add a second one. The Sandy Bridge processor has enough power for almost any computing task. All this for less than half the price of a Mac Pro. It's even small enough that you can hang it underneath your desk. Also, if you google/Bing, there are several mounts and cases available from third parties that allow you to slide in your Mac Mini and SuperDrive, rack mount them and more.



    Another option is to buy a refurbished Mac Pro for $1999.



    I believe this is a valid solution unless your monitor is an ADC. What do you think?
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