Microsoft's preview of Windows 8 has developers 'horrified' - report



  • Reply 41 of 84
    nicolbolasnicolbolas Posts: 254member
    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

    Steve B... your time to leave is near.

    his time TO LEAVE was a long time ago, the time he will actually leave, i dunno.
  • Reply 42 of 84
    columbuscolumbus Posts: 282member
    IE 10 was one of the full screen applications they showed off which made use of metro and the immersive user experience.

    What do these developers think that was written in? I doubt it was javascript.
  • Reply 43 of 84
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post

    I think Microsoft is lost in the seas of technology, they absolutely got no clue where to place their next big bet.

    The legacy millstone is finally weighing them down it would appear. This is why I have never really cared whether Apple paid attention to the "enterprise". That market protects the status quo with all its might. Innovation is a dirty word when it comes to white box PCs sitting on desks in a cubicle farm, running in house software written by a junior college comp/sci graduate. But Microsoft must cow-tow to that market. It's their bread and butter. Windows and Office, period.
  • Reply 44 of 84
    futuristicfuturistic Posts: 599member

    Problem solved.

    Oh, wait. I got another one!

    Windows 8 to be released in 2012. Mayan calendar says the world will end in 2012*. Coincidence? I think not!!!

    * Yeah Yeah. I know this "End of the World" crap is nonsense... or, IS IT??? DUM-DUM-DUM!!!!
  • Reply 45 of 84
    minderbinderminderbinder Posts: 1,703member
    This story just seems ridiculous, it just defies common sense.

    Can you write an app like Photoshop or Cubase in javascript or HTML5? Of course not.

    Are they going to dump support for all existing windows apps? Of course not, which means there's no way to stop anyone from just continuing to use the old development tools.

    Maybe js/html5 just for mobile apps, or for the part of apps that communicates with their tile interface, or just for little tiny widget type apps.

    But there's no way in hell they're dumping a huge pile of powerful development tools and legacy code. Sure, there are modernizations that can be made and it's possible they could start gradually dropping support for things that are old and outdated but they're not going to completely immediately throw everything out, the idea would be pure insanity.

    Looks like MS is just making a big communication blunder. Wait for the correction/backtrack any day now.
  • Reply 46 of 84
    Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post

    BOB for Tablet would be wonderful for Windows users ;-)

    I think our dog, Rocky, could use BOB to select his treat every morning if:

    1. some developer does a program with slideshow and touchscreen.

    2. I let the dog drink 6-8 cups of coffee everyday so he hears voices.
  • Reply 47 of 84
    cycomikocycomiko Posts: 716member
    Ars looves the FUD link bait
  • Reply 48 of 84
    I wish that more people would write paid programs for Linux. Sure I like free the most, but I'd love to have something easy and super capable in the movie editing area. IMovie is easy to use and very good. It doesn't work on Linux.

    The same thing goes for image storage and manipulation. I don't like iPhoto too much but it is capable of some image editing. Aperture is probably better. I haven't bought it because I don't edit images that often.

    I like the VLC movie player but it is buggy on all platforms and it doesn't have any instructions on how to use all the features. A cheap paid program might be much better for my needs than a free buggy program.

    It would be great if all the Microsoft developers jumped ship and started working in Web OS and LInux. Perhaps enough of them will so that I'll get more of what I need in Linux programs.
  • Reply 49 of 84
    quinneyquinney Posts: 2,528member
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

    A potential Microsoft dev rebellion? I love it!

    Mr. Ballmer will have to adopt a more plaintive tone when making his "developers, developers, developers, developers" chant.
  • Reply 50 of 84
    shaminoshamino Posts: 532member
    If this rumor is true (and I seriously have my doubts) it would be great for us non-Windows users and bad for MS.

    If Windows 8 apps are all based on HTML5 and JavaScript, then there's no need to run Windows at all. We can run those apps on Linux, on Mac OS, on iPhones, and countless other non-MS platforms.

    Somehow I don't think even Ballmer would be that stupid.
  • Reply 51 of 84
    prof. peabodyprof. peabody Posts: 2,860member
    Originally Posted by TheMacadvocate View Post

    This is more about Microsoft being unable to articulate the way the touch layer and the "hardcore" OS layer are going to work together. Microsoft is nothing if not beholden to the needs of its legacy users and long-term developers.

    This does underscore how poor a job they did explaining the "2 UI" identity of Windows 8 and how utterly focused they were about serving something up that responded to iOS.

    I would argue instead that the flaw here is the tech press buying into the idea that Windows 8 will be a new OS that incorporates touch and runs on tablets.

    None of this makes any sense unless you assume that the tiles and stuff is just a thin dashboard-y kind of layer and that the rest of Windows is staying more or less the same. If this is true, then the lie is only in maintaining that this is in fact a "touch operating system" when it's really just a widget layer on regular old Windows 7.

    They seem to be attempting to simply go on as before with Windows software, keep all backward compatibility but yet *appear* to be moving forward. It's a total boondoggle.

    I think we can expect that the only difference between "Windows 8" (the real part underneath the widgets), and Windows 7, will be that most of the obvious buttons will be made larger for fingers. They will also almost certainly attempt to do a new interface for Office along the same lines, although it's hard to see how that will really work, and it would seem to necessitate making far more changes than the dreaded "ribbon" introduced.

    Worse, I don't see that Microsoft's actual customers (the businesses), even *want* this.

    Microsoft is trying to change everything about Windows and Office, without actually changing anything about Windows and Office, because of course their customers don't really want them to change anything about Windows and Office.

    They are screwed. If they fail, they fail, if they succeed, they fail.

    I'm thinking they are going to fail.
  • Reply 52 of 84
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,408moderator
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

    The prospect of writing software for "Windows 8" in HTML5 and JavaScript has reportedly "horrified" Microsoft's development community, which is anxiously awaiting more information.

    Author Peter Bright noted that Windows developers have invested "a lot of time, effort and money into the platform," learning to program in Win32, COM, Visual Basic 6, .NET, Silverlight and WPF, just to name a few.

    It can replace the UI layers and I wouldn't say it's a bad thing. There's absolutely no point at this stage in building apps that depend on a browser plugin because you have to rely on a certain market penetration with the plugin and it just won't be there unless it's forced on people e.g with Youtube. You can't afford to ignore the mobile platform any more either and the plugin route just doesn't work (kudos to Adobe for letting everyone know this).

    Silverlight should never have been made but it does offer some things that HTML 5 doesn't like DRM video streaming and Direct3D rendering so it won't be fully replaced but it will be put in its place. That place is not as a development platform but as an accessory to HTML 5 to provide functionality it doesn't yet offer. They are doing this the right way, Adobe are going about it the wrong way and Microsoft are going to steal the market that Flash/Flex holds unless they stop their stubbornness.

    Adobe need to embrace HTML 5 and scale Flash way back to a very small, lean plugin that only tackles specialised functionality.

    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

    "Such a switch means discarding two decades of knowledge and expertise of Windows development -- and countless hours spent learning Microsoft's latest-and-greatest technology -- and perhaps just as importantly, it means discarding rich, capable frameworks and the powerful, enormously popular Visual Studio development environment, in favor of a far more primitive, rudimentary system with substantially inferior tools."

    It doesn't really, we've all seen what Palm were capable of regarding development with HTML UIs:

    Their UI builder was pretty cool running right in a browser:

    This Windows 8 issue is being blown way out of proportion. Microsoft have had the biggest wake-up call over the past couple of years and they're doing something about it and thankfully trying to fix some of their mistakes. Developers aren't going to like having to relearn things but it's their own fault for not figuring out where things were going in the first place.

    It doesn't mean an end to DirectX or C++ coding or whatever, it's just a better standardised UI layer that can be integrated with the web. Hopefully they won't abuse it to push development of websites that only run on Windows.

    One thing that's very clear from the Windows 8 demo when you see the new view next to the standard apps is how bad conventional UIs really are and why they need to be overhauled. The desktop paradigm is all wrong. Why do we even need a desktop? It's just breathing space between where you are and where you want to be and just like any spare cupboard you have, you tend to fill it full of junk. When OS manufacturers give you a tidier place for the junk, you don't need the spare cupboard. Just get straight to the apps.

    I'm not a fan of the tile view because it assigns importance based on colour and size of the tiles and I wouldn't feel the same way about that importance every day. Apps are only as important as the one I need at any given time - same goes for max/min/close buttons. But anyway, I think both Apple and Microsoft are making good moves evolving the desktop OS with mobile platforms in mind. Some changes might be painful but I think we're all going to like where we end up.
  • Reply 53 of 84
    I still maintain MS has done so much damage to businesses (in this case developers) with their slip-shod approach to OS development. This, if true, is just another example! I feel sorry for the developers and anyone that has to use Windows! Ugh!
  • Reply 54 of 84
    Originally Posted by jmillermcp View Post

    .NET is decades old and Java is somehow new? Things that have become quite trivial thanks to .NET would be a nightmare to code in Java.

    Well, I respectfully disagree. Starting with writing code that has to work on something other than Windows. Also, .Net is quite an umbrella? Which language, for example? And God help if you actually have a single project implemented in the multiple languages.

    Knowing Java, C/C++ and C#, I'll pick Java every time.
  • Reply 55 of 84
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 12,527member
    Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

    If what you are saying is true though (that Windows 8 is just an HTML 5 'dashboard' tacked onto Windows 7), then everything they have been saying is a lie and the platform will fail anyway.

    Microsoft either has to come up with a modern platform for mobile devices or go away and die.

    Either way, this isn't it.

    If they were smart, they'd have had a team making an iOS version of Word, Excel, etc. in 2008 and be ready to port it to their own new platform which they started building in 2009. They are already years and years behind and not even trying that hard to catch up.


    It's particularly telling, and must be galling to MicroSoft, that there are over 100 million iOS devices capable of running Microsoft Office Mobile apps -- if there were such a thing.

    Lets see... $10 each x 3 apps x 100,000,000... Why, golly Martha -- someone could make a little money on this!

    Paraphrasing "Boss" Tweed: "We seen our opportunities -- and we ignored 'em."
  • Reply 56 of 84
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 12,527member

    Originally Posted by AppleInsider

    The company also clarified that it has not officially revealed a name for the next-generation version of Windows

    Originally Posted by Cpsro View Post

    Oh, let me guess... Windows 8

    Oh, I don't know... based on the announce-delivery cycle, LongHorn Mobile might be more appropriate.
  • Reply 57 of 84
    Originally Posted by EyeNsteinNo View Post

    Make it simple, just do a new Windows BOB OS so one size fits all.

    Surely you jest.
  • Reply 58 of 84
    Originally Posted by quinney View Post

    Mr. Ballmer will have to adopt a more plaintive tone when making his "developers, developers, developers, developers" chant.

    The Silverlight Developers Group can meet up at the next MIX conference and cry on each others shoulders.
  • Reply 59 of 84
    rtm135rtm135 Posts: 310member
    I'm sorry, I must have stumbled upon WindowsInsider by accident. I was looking for AppleInsider. Anyone seen it?
  • Reply 60 of 84
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    Originally Posted by rtm135 View Post

    I'm sorry, I must have stumbled upon WindowsInsider by accident. I was looking for AppleInsider. Anyone seen it?

    One story and you get all uppity? This is about Mac development as much as it is about Windows.

    There's going to be a massive migration. To OS X. Unless Microsoft gets it together. They tend not to.
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