Apple releases Final Cut Pro X, Motion 5 and Compressor 4 on Mac App Store

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  • Reply 141 of 205
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,144member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by samwell View Post


    It bothers me when people who have no idea what they're talking about pretend like they do.



    Be polite or you're out though. You can be negative, but sit on your hands until you can type something less abusive. Ok?
  • Reply 142 of 205
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,144member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cpr1 View Post


    Let's face it, this is just a HUGE upgrade to iMovie -- hence, the ability to import iMovie projects/events and not FCP projects. If this had been named iMoviePro X, there'd be no bitching. Hopefully, they'll upgrade FCP soon.



    Very funny, I'm sure. But you've obviously got no knowledge of FCPs beginnings.
  • Reply 143 of 205
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,341member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by samwell View Post


    With all due respect, since you're one of the few on this site whose head isn't firmly lodged up Jobs' ass, FCPX will never be phased into production environments. Pro users (within a production environment) will be running back to Avid very quickly.



    Regardless of what features are added in subsequent updates, there is no more trust in Apple to deliver pro-quality software.



    samwell



    there's a post over on another site with statements from Phil Hodgetts and I think Larry Jordan that Multicam is coming and some form of import from FCP 7 or earlier is coming. Just those two will ease a lot of frustration. I gotta think Deck control is on the menu.





    There was another interesting tidbit of info that could go unnoticed. I read that the updates are moving from 18 months to a couple a year.



    Perhaps this is the reason to move Pro apps to MAS. The ability to centrally push updates through MAS is probably easier than software update on some level.
  • Reply 144 of 205
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,144member
    As some of us have been saying, Apple is aware of the lack of certain features, and will be updating quickly. This from Macrumors gives a quick first idea of what to expect shortly. As we can see, a couple of major needs complained about here will be met in a short while.



    http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/21/...pdates-coming/
  • Reply 145 of 205
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,664member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    samwell



    there's a post over on another site with statements from Phil Hodgetts and I think Larry Jordan that Multicam is coming and some form of import from FCP 7 or earlier is coming. Just those two will ease a lot of frustration. I gotta think Deck control is on the menu.





    There was another interesting tidbit of info that could go unnoticed. I read that the updates are moving from 18 months to a couple a year.



    Perhaps this is the reason to move Pro apps to MAS. The ability to centrally push updates through MAS is probably easier than software update on some level.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    As some of us have been saying, Apple is aware of the lack of certain features, and will be updating quickly. This from Macrumors gives a quick first idea of what to expect shortly. As we can see, a couple of major needs complained about here will be met in a short while.



    http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/21/...pdates-coming/



    Good news, all around. And what I had hoped Apple had in mind.



    Now I think the key thing is pushing out these updates in pretty good time. I don't mean in the next week or anything, but I don't think Apple can sit on things as they stand for a year and not expect to see the hold on the pro NLE market take a pretty good hit.



    Murch-- I had read that as well about the frequency of updates and the utility of MAS in that case, someone asked how that works better than Software Update. Any thoughts? Does pushing incremental updates have an advantage over letting people know an update is available for download?
  • Reply 146 of 205
    welshdogwelshdog Posts: 1,788member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    All clients are really getting cheap. I'm seeing this in publishing, advertising, etc. Areas that were never in question, are now off limits.



    The client side cost consultants are killing full service post facilities. They will hear FCP X only costs $300 and want a discount. They don't understand the costs involved and they don't care. Post houses all over the country are going out of business because web based and interactive advertising doesn't demand quality. Not in the shoot, the cut or the finish. So Apple may be making the right move here by aiming their product at people who are producing everything for the web. Tape isn't yet dead and won't be for some time, but for those of use who still need it FCP X - at this moment - is not helping.



    The way things are going only the Los Angeles post market will be able to continue producing content at the highest quality level. Everyone else is going to have to dumb it down. Maybe that is what FCP X is for.



    Of course Apple could also be preparing FCP X Extreme which will address the shortcomings people are so upset with today.
  • Reply 147 of 205
    cpsrocpsro Posts: 2,950member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    I cannot think of anyone (an actual working professional) who has the time or would waste time posting on the App Store reviews. Especially on the day the software is released.



    Especially on the day the software is released and by people who just plunked down their money, this will happen. It's news now, not later. It's most helpful to those for whom it matters now, not later.
  • Reply 148 of 205
    Tweet this:



    Not happy with the new Final Cut Pro X?? Email the product manager your thoughts: Steve Bayes, [email protected] #FCPX #Apple #FinalCutProX
  • Reply 149 of 205
    FCPX is already quite literally a joke. The features needed to get work done on a daily basis simply aren't there. Slapping them on later is only going to underscore the fact it's shipping as a substandard product absolutely not suitable for a production environment. Apple should drop the "Pro" moniker as it doesn't fit here.



    Either Apple doesn't know, or Apple doesn't care how its target market uses FCP. It doesn't bode well for the future.



    But if you want to edit some home movies, go for it. I'm sure it'll work out well for you. Just don't try to export a portion of a sequence.



    Like Quicktime Player X, FCPX is going to live in the shadow of version 7. I don't know anyone who actually uses QTX. The absurdly intrusive controller, the inability to quickly create new clips from existing files, the inability to check for the presence of a timecode track...



    Apple can patch FCPX all it wants, but the fact remains it's a failure of an app that has very, very substantial design flaws out of the gate that go down to the very basic foundations of what makes FCPX FCPX. I don't think you can patch that away. I don't know what the project managers were thinking, but it has little or nothing to do with what professional editors need to get their jobs done.



    I mean, look at this list of ridiculous oversights.



    - No EDL

    - No XML

    - No OMF

    - No Backwards Compatibility - EXCEPT FOR iMOVIE (!!!!)

    - No Deck Support

    - No External Monitor Support

    - No Multicam Support

    - No Networked Volume Support

    - No Ability to Choose the Destination of Project Files

    - No Manual Color Correction

    - No Sequence Settings

    - No Screen Layout Settings

    - No Bins

    - No Custom Video Dimensions

    - No Custom Clips Exported From a Sequence



    This is not a professional app by any means.
  • Reply 150 of 205
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,662member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Most video editing Pro's wouldn't even think before laying down the cash for this sight unseen.



    Which makes me skeptical of the "Pros" who feel burned for spending $300 on a program without even bothering to discover it's missing features that they claim are essential for their workflow. They either have more money than common sense or are just embarrassed that they got caught up in the moment of "ooh, shiny/new" and couldn't be bother to do a minimum of due diligence. The whole "the sky is falling" meme is beyond tiresome at this point
  • Reply 151 of 205
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,662member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    You really feel true professionals would be posting their honest opinion within hours of downloading the software. Would a "real" professional want to use the software for awhile before making an assessment?



    There you go bringing logic into the discussion again!
  • Reply 152 of 205
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,662member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Aiwaz418 View Post


    I would suggest you take a look at the reviews on the App Store if you seek less 'anonymous' feedback, and then give it a few days before some pros write more in-depth responses and post them on Apple and editorial sites.





    Is Larry Jordan "Pro" enough for you?



    Good gawd, all the whining about something that has been out for less than 24 hours is simply astonishing.



    Hey here's a thought - maybe there hasn't been a push to get off of tape because there wasn't a compelling paradigm to do so?



    People throw out equipment costs as why tape won't go away, well guess what. I may not be a pro editor, but I've managed enough projects to understand that the real costs are in labor. Tools - of which camera's and decks are just tools, are a minor cost in the grand scheme of things.



    If a forward thinking production company can ditch tape, convert their cameras to record to disk and slash a significant part of their workflow time - guess what - that's an edge.



    I think that's what Larry see's and why he is so excited. This is Mac OSX, USB and the missing floppy drive all over again. Apple is a good year or two ahead of where the market is going. It probably looks impossible or highly unlikely now, but all it will take are one or two projects to prove the concept and Bam! An industry shifts.



    Kind of like when the original Final Cut shipped. Hmm, imagine that....



    So is it a surprise the entrenched big houses and editing suites are having heartburn with this edition of FCP X? Nope. Their not going to change quickly (certainly not in less than 24 hours) even if FCP X did everything they want and polished their shoes too. Where FCP X is going to explode like a nuclear weapon is in the smaller/independent space. Where the growth and innovation is happening. Eventually, it will trickle up. Heck - video tape was once derided as "consumer".



    Another shift this is reminiscent of is from film to digital in photography. Look how long it took for that paradigm to shift. Here we are yet again - another tempest in a teapot. If Apple's right, the fact that FCP is missing tape and some of the round tripping features will be moot. It will be interesting to see how things develop over the next couple of months. Certainly more interesting than seeing a bunch of reactionary rhetoric for something that has been out for less than 24 hours
  • Reply 153 of 205
    asciiascii Posts: 5,941member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cpr1 View Post


    Let's face it, this is just a HUGE upgrade to iMovie -- hence, the ability to import iMovie projects/events and not FCP projects. If this had been named iMoviePro X, there'd be no bitching. Hopefully, they'll upgrade FCP soon.



    iMovie '08 was a total redesign, and I think the same guy that did that then moved to the FCP team. He was on stage at WWDC, had really short hair.
  • Reply 154 of 205
    notrsnotrs Posts: 40member
    I don't know...



    What is Apple really selling here?



    Professional video editing software, or the illusion of being a pro editor (iMovie on steroids)?



    think about it...



    What's truly a bigger market?



    Professional video editors (which are far less) but can plop down $1000 for high quality software...



    OR



    Everyone else who can manage $300-$400 and be able to pretend that they are on that level of professionalism?



    I don't mean for this to sound like a conspiracy theory, but I'm seeing Apple trying to play both markets to get all the money.



    I'm sure FCP X will mature with updates to bring it back up to par with FCS for the industry pros, but I'm also seeing a LOT more amateurs buying this (and not using it to its full potential) simply to feel like they're in the "PRO" crowd.



    Just like Aperture for amateur photographers vs. professional photographers. I know a lot of people plopping down an affordable $80 because iPhoto "isn't good enough" yet... they only really use the same functions that iPhoto delivers.
  • Reply 155 of 205
    onhkaonhka Posts: 1,025member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DoctorGonzo View Post


    FCPX is already quite literally a joke. The features needed to get work done on a daily basis simply aren't there. Slapping them on later is only going to underscore the fact it's shipping as a substandard product absolutely not suitable for a production environment. Apple should drop the "Pro" moniker as it doesn't fit here.



    Either Apple doesn't know, or Apple doesn't care how its target market uses FCP. It doesn't bode well for the future.



    But if you want to edit some home movies, go for it. I'm sure it'll work out well for you. Just don't try to export a portion of a sequence.



    Like Quicktime Player X, FCPX is going to live in the shadow of version 7. I don't know anyone who actually uses QTX. The absurdly intrusive controller, the inability to quickly create new clips from existing files, the inability to check for the presence of a timecode track...



    Apple can patch FCPX all it wants, but the fact remains it's a failure of an app that has very, very substantial design flaws out of the gate that go down to the very basic foundations of what makes FCPX FCPX. I don't think you can patch that away. I don't know what the project managers were thinking, but it has little or nothing to do with what professional editors need to get their jobs done.



    I mean, look at this list of ridiculous oversights.



    - No EDL

    - No XML

    - No OMF

    - No Backwards Compatibility - EXCEPT FOR iMOVIE (!!!!)

    - No Deck Support

    - No External Monitor Support

    - No Multicam Support

    - No Networked Volume Support

    - No Ability to Choose the Destination of Project Files

    - No Manual Color Correction

    - No Sequence Settings

    - No Screen Layout Settings

    - No Bins

    - No Custom Video Dimensions

    - No Custom Clips Exported From a Sequence



    This is not a professional app by any means.



    I gather that you have had some time to use/test/evaluate the new product, and I for one would be happy to heed your advice. Providing that you provide your credentials first.



    I have done some due diligence. Afterall, it is I that will be laying out the $300 dollars for my guys in the studio. Who by the way are very professional, none of whom attended NAB in April mind you, but forced me to watch the FCP X keynote* and some of the initial comments following it.?



    I can't argue that some of your 'No' claims are correct because video editing is not my forte. However, perusing the listed features**, it would appear, for one example, that you can manually color correct.



    Again, I may not have your expertise in this field, but Compressor' seems to challenge another of your "No's." If true, I would normally have to wonder how many of the other issues are equally false. But from what I have understood to date, this offering is a new paradigm in video editing and to not give it its due diligence properly, would be like someone stuck in the stone age.



    * http://igadgetsreport.com/2011/04/13...keynote-video/

    ? http://www.macvideo.tv/editing/inter...icleId=3274978

    ** http://www.apple.com/finalcutpro/all...#color-grading
  • Reply 156 of 205
    bergermeisterbergermeister Posts: 6,784member
    How much control over DVD menus is there in FCPX/Compressor? At work we create main menus with three or four submenus each with five or so clips with End-jump set to the submenu. The clips also have six or seven markers set at specific points. We currently use DVD Studio Pro to accomplish this.



    Could the new FCPX and/or Compressor cover this need?
  • Reply 157 of 205
    onhkaonhka Posts: 1,025member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post


    How much control over DVD menus is there in FCPX/Compressor? At work we create main menus with three or four submenus each with five or so clips with End-jump set to the submenu. The clips also have six or seven markers set at specific points. We currently use DVD Studio Pro to accomplish this.



    Could the new FCPX and/or Compressor cover this need?



    You are aware that Apple has posted quite a comprehensive description of FCPX's features, including Compressor. http://www.apple.com/finalcutpro/compressor/



    Until you buy the book or more hands-on are available, the people that I would accept to answer queries such as yours are not here.



    Heck, even perusing the Manuals would certainly help in the meantime. http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4681
  • Reply 158 of 205
    I reading comment after comment about price, upgrade price, what a great deal for the price. A professional is willing to spend more money for a features rich software platform. Features should be the topic NOT price. As a Professional Editor who uses FCP7 everyday I can't believe Apple left out so many key features: Backwards compatibility with FCP6 & FCP7 project files, Duhhh, Multiclip Editing, Tape Capture and Import...these few features are deal breakers!! Apple just made a conscience decision to move away from the professional market and towards prosumer/education markets.

    Avid and Adobe are jumping for joy! Their market share is surely going to jump as Professionals migrate to Avid and Adobe. Sad day for FCP users all over the world.
  • Reply 159 of 205
    bergermeisterbergermeister Posts: 6,784member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Onhka View Post


    You are aware that Apple has posted quite a comprehensive description of FCPX's features, including Compressor. http://www.apple.com/finalcutpro/compressor/



    Until you buy the book or more hands-on are available, the people that I would accept to answer queries such as yours are not here.



    Heck, even perusing the Manuals would certainly help in the meantime. http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4681



    I've looked at them and the manuals online and it seems pretty basic. Can't see the actual templates, though. At the office we'll probably stick with DVD-SP (unless there is a pleasant surprise).



    Overall, the apps look great (I am not a pro editor) and it would be nice to get back into making some home movies; it's been a while. I live in a beautiful area and would like to finally capture some of the nature on video (have thousands of photographs) and learn something new in the process.
  • Reply 160 of 205
    I may not be a pro editor, (this says it all) if you were actually an editor your comments would be different. Upgrades are not to take features away but to make life easy for our day to day task.

    Clearly a move away from the Professional market to Prosumer/Education...AND NO I AM NOT A BIG

    EDITING HOUSE..merely 3 editors who are disappointed with all the hype and no deliver

    Avid & adobe are ecstatic!





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post


    Is Larry Jordan "Pro" enough for you?



    Good gawd, all the whining about something that has been out for less than 24 hours is simply astonishing.



    Hey here's a thought - maybe there hasn't been a push to get off of tape because there wasn't a compelling paradigm to do so?



    People throw out equipment costs as why tape won't go away, well guess what. I may not be a pro editor, but I've managed enough projects to understand that the real costs are in labor. Tools - of which camera's and decks are just tools, are a minor cost in the grand scheme of things.



    If a forward thinking production company can ditch tape, convert their cameras to record to disk and slash a significant part of their workflow time - guess what - that's an edge.



    I think that's what Larry see's and why he is so excited. This is Mac OSX, USB and the missing floppy drive all over again. Apple is a good year or two ahead of where the market is going. It probably looks impossible or highly unlikely now, but all it will take are one or two projects to prove the concept and Bam! An industry shifts.



    Kind of like when the original Final Cut shipped. Hmm, imagine that....



    So is it a surprise the entrenched big houses and editing suites are having heartburn with this edition of FCP X? Nope. Their not going to change quickly (certainly not in less than 24 hours) even if FCP X did everything they want and polished their shoes too. Where FCP X is going to explode like a nuclear weapon is in the smaller/independent space. Where the growth and innovation is happening. Eventually, it will trickle up. Heck - video tape was once derided as "consumer".



    Another shift this is reminiscent of is from film to digital in photography. Look how long it took for that paradigm to shift. Here we are yet again - another tempest in a teapot. If Apple's right, the fact that FCP is missing tape and some of the round tripping features will be moot. It will be interesting to see how things develop over the next couple of months. Certainly more interesting than seeing a bunch of reactionary rhetoric for something that has been out for less than 24 hours



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