They also only charged a "prosumer" $300 for it, not the standard $1000+
Professionals would gladly pay $1000 had it been really powerful 64 bit 7 updated rather than a totally different and totally incompatible product. It's about work flow not price for professionals and edit houses. They are not whiners or computer nerds they are companies with multiple Mac Pros and high end media servers and many staff with on going work dependent on being able to open and use existing projects. A single production project could easily be anywhere from half a million to multi- million dollars. You have to see this in context.
The FCPX petition was #8 on PetitionsOnline.com with over 600 signatures. I am betting there are a lot more iWeb and MobileMe Gallery users out there than there are high end professional video editors. I hope they will respond in force to Apple's decision to cut them off. Use the link in my signature line make yourselves heard.
You aren't even allowed to buy new legitimate copies of FCP7. What if you need more seats to complete a project?
great point - this is a perfect example of why enterprises dont adopt apple, even if they are better, which fo general business, I argue they are not, in a professional enterprise one needs to know that their platform is going to be there - For example Office 2010 has been out for over a year and 2007 is still availible to business licensees.
In a year or two, once Apple continuously rolls out added features, all the critics will be silent, and they will tout FCP as the best editing software on the planet. Every critic says its a fantastic foundation, but lacks features they need. Well, that's how Apple rolls. They are utterly unafraid to destroy the status quo if they believe in their vision for the future.
It will get better. Relax. In the meantime, nobody is ripping FCP7 out of your hands.
I am not a video producer. My exposure to things like iMovie is very limited, so commenting as an "expert" is not what I am doing. With that caveat, I can recognize a few things here, to wit:
1. It seems that the release of this product was given a go to market date and Apple management forced the date on the release team. Evidence for this is all the back-pedalling being done about the missing features that are just around the corner. Why release something that is feature incomplete and sure to be regarded as junk when you know that in a month or two a whole lot of features that are needed for the product to be properly useful will be ready, why not just wait and ship it when its really done? Real artists ship, that's why.
2. It seems that all the improvements that the program does provide are really "plumbing" type. I am sure the utilization of 64 bits etc will greatly speed up the import of clips, and will be noticed as a great asset moving forward, but all the "workflow" type issues are substantially worse off for now.
3. From the reviews, a place like Pixar where most or all of their work is digital from start to finish, this software will be tremendously better for them and their workflow, but other older analog/digital mixed production houses will see a lot of pain if they attempt the transition. Jobs' Pixar movie production roots may have driven some of the "Its OK to go with it right now" attitude that seems to be biting Apple in their butt, leg, neck, nose, toes and, well, you get the point.
4. It seems that a more rational solution to the introduction of the new software would have been to wait until the things they supposedly are going to get done soon, the 3rd party drivers that are waiting to be finished were and the truly hardline not-going-to-ever-update-this-or-that issues are fully demarcated and then say this stuff is it moving forward, but for the next "X" where X is 6 or 12 or 18 months, the old version will be sold and fully supported, and even when they stop selling the old version don't give it the EOL treatment, just kind of let it slide away.
I really don't have a dog in this particular fight, I just hate to see Apple give itself such a huge (and really unnecessary) black eye. There have been other times where Apple has EOL'd certain technology, and in the final analysis, they have been proved right, I just think that this is one area that maybe they should have taken a little more time to finish cooking both the product and the transition plan.
This is what the people arguing FCPX is fine don't understand. They have obviously never seen a professional edit house and simply have no clue that multiple edit suits require a known path ahead in terms of software to justify the huge cost of high end Mac Pros and trained staff. They have to know their investment is going to keep working or else they have to jump ship to Premiere or Avid.
Yes but the edit houses didn't have a 'known path' with regards to FCP7. And jumping ship to Avid or Premiere would be a far more drastic move than sitting tight with FCP7 and working with Apple to iron out the problems.
I wonder if FCPx gains the required feature set and works as well with peripherals as FCP7, or Avid, will the editor community accept it?
great point - this is a perfect example of why enterprises dont adopt apple, even if they are better, which fo general business, I argue they are not, in a professional enterprise one needs to know that their platform is going to be there - For example Office 2010 has been out for over a year and 2007 is still availible to business licensees.
I agree and I am very disappointed that Apple made this mistake ... I hope they will see the light and prove you wrong.
Yes but the edit houses didn't have a 'known path' with regards to FCP7. And jumping ship to Avid or Premiere would be a far more drastic move than sitting tight with FCP7 and working with Apple to iron out the problems.
I wonder if FCPx gains the required feature set and works as well with peripherals as FCP7, or Avid, will the editor community accept it?
Agreed IF Apple start selling 7 and supporting and updating it again. Else there will be some head scratching going on, there is no easy path here. Apple can recover this, I have faith ... (holding breath).
The last question is IMHO that if X opened 7 projects and had full support for plug ins etc and possible a switch to old view to aid the transition ... just a few thoughts.
Professionals would gladly pay $1000 had it been really powerful 64 bit 7 updated rather than a totally different and totally incompatible product. It's about work flow not price for professionals and edit houses. They are not whiners or computer nerds they are companies with multiple Mac Pros and high end media servers and many staff with on going work dependent on being able to open and use existing projects. A single production project could easily be anywhere from half a million to multi- million dollars. You have to see this in context.
I agree, but you speak as if a post production company might jump to FCPx only to discover its incompatible. I am very surprised at the lack of backward compatibility, but at the same time, the introduction of a FCPx needs to be treated like a migration to a new platform. It clearly isn't ready but can you see the day that it might be? Or do you think it stands no chance of ever becoming the new FCP?
This is what the people arguing FCPX is fine don't understand. They have obviously never seen a professional edit house and simply have no clue that multiple edit suits require a known path ahead in terms of software to justify the huge cost of high end Mac Pros and trained staff. They have to know their investment is going to keep working or else they have to jump ship to Premiere or Avid....
Agreed. The non professionals posting comments here are clueless. My shop was due to upgrade edit suites next month; I sent a letter to management asking them to pull the plug and do a rethink.
The harm may be beyond repair already even if Apple does major damage control this week -- that's assuming Apple even wants to continue in the pro market, which is not clear at this point.
If and when FCP X (iMovie Xtreme) ever becomes a professional application (and it won't be this year, because the app is way too far away from being usable), many post-production facilities will have moved on to Adobe or back to Avid. It would take years for Apple to climb back into the pro market if they lose it this year. Right now, a business person / editor would be nuts to trust Apple with his or her livelihood.
That's what happen when you under-deliver and do not provide a way to try a software before buying it... you finally need to give a refund :-s
Maybe this will impact future of Mac app store where you no longer have the ability to try a software during 30 days. As a non professional video maker, I'm interested in this FCP X version but will never buy it at 299$ without having a chance to try it!
Not sure if they were able to verify the authenticity of this email, but it's overall tone somewhat calls that into question. First of all, the email keeps referring to the department as 'iTunes" or the 'iTunes Store". Obviously, as a Mac product, this purchase was handled by the Mac App store and not the iTS. They might be the same team internally, but Apple doesn't usually mince words when it comes to product identification.
Further, I simply can't believe that any Apple employee would be given license to describe their own product as "inadequate", even if it was. After all, this is the same company that designed the hockey puck mouse, which Steve Jobs summarily described as "the best mouse ever created", despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. When Apple does admit to mistakes - such as the iPhone 4's antenna-gate fiasco - it's usually preempted by a 20 minute presentation explaining how much better the new product still is than it's competition, followed by somewhat begrudging attempts at keeping everyone happy (and quiet). This email made no mention of Apple standing by the redesign or how great the new features were, etc. Either they've turned over a new leaf or someone is going to be having a long conversation with their manager tomorrow.
This is what the people arguing FCPX is fine don't understand. They have obviously never seen a professional edit house and simply have no clue that multiple edit suits require a known path ahead in terms of software to justify the huge cost of high end Mac Pros and trained staff. They have to know their investment is going to keep working or else they have to jump ship to Premiere or Avid.
It's not like FCP7 suddenly ceased to work or suddenly became obsolete.
From my experience, you NEVER upgrade immediately on a major release. You finish your mission critical stuff on your current pipeline. If you need to start a new project, you use that pipeline.
Then slowly on the side, you start building up your new workflow. It takes a while. By the time you get comfortable with it, the software is more mature and bugs/features have been addressed.
These things take a few years anyways. Look at the original FCP conversion. Everyone was calling it "prosumer-at-best", and now, FCP7 is a pretty complete Pro App.
That being said, they redesigned the software to make it more user-friendly and possibly decrease the learning curve. That will increase the user base, and possibly eat at Premiere's designer/prosumer marketshare.
By the time it's fully mature, it will have a much larger user base, and be used by amateur cinematographers and pros alike.
Oh, also, what Teejaysplace24 said. :-) The email looks fake, or someone's getting fired.
In a year or two, once Apple continuously rolls out added features, all the critics will be silent, and they will tout FCP as the best editing software on the planet. Every critic says its a fantastic foundation, but lacks features they need. Well, that's how Apple rolls. They are utterly unafraid to destroy the status quo if they believe in their vision for the future.
It will get better. Relax. In the meantime, nobody is ripping FCP7 out of your hands.
For the most part I agree. The thing that really gets me though, it that it's not backwards compatible. That really sucks and unfortunately will never be addressed.
Good Work Apple. Professional don't have 2-3 years for FCP-X to get better, they need hardware and software that is production quality to do work and make money today.
In a year or two, once Apple continuously rolls out added features, all the critics will be silent, and they will tout FCP as the best editing software on the planet. Every critic says its a fantastic foundation, but lacks features they need. Well, that's how Apple rolls. They are utterly unafraid to destroy the status quo if they believe in their vision for the future.
It will get better. Relax. In the meantime, nobody is ripping FCP7 out of your hands.
My questions are how many sales have there been and how many complainers are there. What features are they freaking about and how many folks need them. And are they features you can get some other way
As for Apple admitting anything. Of course they will. To shut these folks up. Because you can explain to someone like that that no one said every feature would be there at all much less day one etc. Better just to say 'yeah you're right', give them their money back and be done with them
Quote:
Originally Posted by PBRSTREETG
Good Work Apple. Professional don't have 2-3 years for FCP-X to get better, they need hardware and software that is production quality to do work and make money today.
Guess I missed the memo that all other programs were magically kill switch with this release
True pros don't start using a program day one cause they need to learn in etc.
It's not like FCP7 suddenly ceased to work or suddenly became obsolete.
Permanently removing a product from production is the very definition of obsolete. There will be no upgrades, no new versions. It's dead - it has no future. It's obsolete.
Comments
Can all FCPX engineers, and other staff report to my office at 13:00 (yes, that's in three minutes!)
SJ
HAHAHAAHAHAA, good one
They also only charged a "prosumer" $300 for it, not the standard $1000+
Professionals would gladly pay $1000 had it been really powerful 64 bit 7 updated rather than a totally different and totally incompatible product. It's about work flow not price for professionals and edit houses. They are not whiners or computer nerds they are companies with multiple Mac Pros and high end media servers and many staff with on going work dependent on being able to open and use existing projects. A single production project could easily be anywhere from half a million to multi- million dollars. You have to see this in context.
You aren't even allowed to buy new legitimate copies of FCP7. What if you need more seats to complete a project?
great point - this is a perfect example of why enterprises dont adopt apple, even if they are better, which fo general business, I argue they are not, in a professional enterprise one needs to know that their platform is going to be there - For example Office 2010 has been out for over a year and 2007 is still availible to business licensees.
In a year or two, once Apple continuously rolls out added features, all the critics will be silent, and they will tout FCP as the best editing software on the planet. Every critic says its a fantastic foundation, but lacks features they need. Well, that's how Apple rolls. They are utterly unafraid to destroy the status quo if they believe in their vision for the future.
It will get better. Relax. In the meantime, nobody is ripping FCP7 out of your hands.
I am not a video producer. My exposure to things like iMovie is very limited, so commenting as an "expert" is not what I am doing. With that caveat, I can recognize a few things here, to wit:
1. It seems that the release of this product was given a go to market date and Apple management forced the date on the release team. Evidence for this is all the back-pedalling being done about the missing features that are just around the corner. Why release something that is feature incomplete and sure to be regarded as junk when you know that in a month or two a whole lot of features that are needed for the product to be properly useful will be ready, why not just wait and ship it when its really done? Real artists ship, that's why.
2. It seems that all the improvements that the program does provide are really "plumbing" type. I am sure the utilization of 64 bits etc will greatly speed up the import of clips, and will be noticed as a great asset moving forward, but all the "workflow" type issues are substantially worse off for now.
3. From the reviews, a place like Pixar where most or all of their work is digital from start to finish, this software will be tremendously better for them and their workflow, but other older analog/digital mixed production houses will see a lot of pain if they attempt the transition. Jobs' Pixar movie production roots may have driven some of the "Its OK to go with it right now" attitude that seems to be biting Apple in their butt, leg, neck, nose, toes and, well, you get the point.
4. It seems that a more rational solution to the introduction of the new software would have been to wait until the things they supposedly are going to get done soon, the 3rd party drivers that are waiting to be finished were and the truly hardline not-going-to-ever-update-this-or-that issues are fully demarcated and then say this stuff is it moving forward, but for the next "X" where X is 6 or 12 or 18 months, the old version will be sold and fully supported, and even when they stop selling the old version don't give it the EOL treatment, just kind of let it slide away.
I really don't have a dog in this particular fight, I just hate to see Apple give itself such a huge (and really unnecessary) black eye. There have been other times where Apple has EOL'd certain technology, and in the final analysis, they have been proved right, I just think that this is one area that maybe they should have taken a little more time to finish cooking both the product and the transition plan.
This is what the people arguing FCPX is fine don't understand. They have obviously never seen a professional edit house and simply have no clue that multiple edit suits require a known path ahead in terms of software to justify the huge cost of high end Mac Pros and trained staff. They have to know their investment is going to keep working or else they have to jump ship to Premiere or Avid.
Yes but the edit houses didn't have a 'known path' with regards to FCP7. And jumping ship to Avid or Premiere would be a far more drastic move than sitting tight with FCP7 and working with Apple to iron out the problems.
I wonder if FCPx gains the required feature set and works as well with peripherals as FCP7, or Avid, will the editor community accept it?
great point - this is a perfect example of why enterprises dont adopt apple, even if they are better, which fo general business, I argue they are not, in a professional enterprise one needs to know that their platform is going to be there - For example Office 2010 has been out for over a year and 2007 is still availible to business licensees.
I agree and I am very disappointed that Apple made this mistake ... I hope they will see the light and prove you wrong.
Yes but the edit houses didn't have a 'known path' with regards to FCP7. And jumping ship to Avid or Premiere would be a far more drastic move than sitting tight with FCP7 and working with Apple to iron out the problems.
I wonder if FCPx gains the required feature set and works as well with peripherals as FCP7, or Avid, will the editor community accept it?
Agreed IF Apple start selling 7 and supporting and updating it again. Else there will be some head scratching going on, there is no easy path here. Apple can recover this, I have faith ... (holding breath).
The last question is IMHO that if X opened 7 projects and had full support for plug ins etc and possible a switch to old view to aid the transition ... just a few thoughts.
Professionals would gladly pay $1000 had it been really powerful 64 bit 7 updated rather than a totally different and totally incompatible product. It's about work flow not price for professionals and edit houses. They are not whiners or computer nerds they are companies with multiple Mac Pros and high end media servers and many staff with on going work dependent on being able to open and use existing projects. A single production project could easily be anywhere from half a million to multi- million dollars. You have to see this in context.
I agree, but you speak as if a post production company might jump to FCPx only to discover its incompatible. I am very surprised at the lack of backward compatibility, but at the same time, the introduction of a FCPx needs to be treated like a migration to a new platform. It clearly isn't ready but can you see the day that it might be? Or do you think it stands no chance of ever becoming the new FCP?
This is what the people arguing FCPX is fine don't understand. They have obviously never seen a professional edit house and simply have no clue that multiple edit suits require a known path ahead in terms of software to justify the huge cost of high end Mac Pros and trained staff. They have to know their investment is going to keep working or else they have to jump ship to Premiere or Avid....
Agreed. The non professionals posting comments here are clueless. My shop was due to upgrade edit suites next month; I sent a letter to management asking them to pull the plug and do a rethink.
The harm may be beyond repair already even if Apple does major damage control this week -- that's assuming Apple even wants to continue in the pro market, which is not clear at this point.
If and when FCP X (iMovie Xtreme) ever becomes a professional application (and it won't be this year, because the app is way too far away from being usable), many post-production facilities will have moved on to Adobe or back to Avid. It would take years for Apple to climb back into the pro market if they lose it this year. Right now, a business person / editor would be nuts to trust Apple with his or her livelihood.
Apple apologized as well and stood by their phenomenal customer service. Got refunds for both FCX and Motion 5.
When did a refund for being less than satisfied with a product become "phenomenal customer service" rather than just "doing business"
Maybe this will impact future of Mac app store where you no longer have the ability to try a software during 30 days. As a non professional video maker, I'm interested in this FCP X version but will never buy it at 299$ without having a chance to try it!
Further, I simply can't believe that any Apple employee would be given license to describe their own product as "inadequate", even if it was. After all, this is the same company that designed the hockey puck mouse, which Steve Jobs summarily described as "the best mouse ever created", despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. When Apple does admit to mistakes - such as the iPhone 4's antenna-gate fiasco - it's usually preempted by a 20 minute presentation explaining how much better the new product still is than it's competition, followed by somewhat begrudging attempts at keeping everyone happy (and quiet). This email made no mention of Apple standing by the redesign or how great the new features were, etc. Either they've turned over a new leaf or someone is going to be having a long conversation with their manager tomorrow.
So for their sake, I hope this is fake.
This is what the people arguing FCPX is fine don't understand. They have obviously never seen a professional edit house and simply have no clue that multiple edit suits require a known path ahead in terms of software to justify the huge cost of high end Mac Pros and trained staff. They have to know their investment is going to keep working or else they have to jump ship to Premiere or Avid.
It's not like FCP7 suddenly ceased to work or suddenly became obsolete.
From my experience, you NEVER upgrade immediately on a major release. You finish your mission critical stuff on your current pipeline. If you need to start a new project, you use that pipeline.
Then slowly on the side, you start building up your new workflow. It takes a while. By the time you get comfortable with it, the software is more mature and bugs/features have been addressed.
These things take a few years anyways. Look at the original FCP conversion. Everyone was calling it "prosumer-at-best", and now, FCP7 is a pretty complete Pro App.
That being said, they redesigned the software to make it more user-friendly and possibly decrease the learning curve. That will increase the user base, and possibly eat at Premiere's designer/prosumer marketshare.
By the time it's fully mature, it will have a much larger user base, and be used by amateur cinematographers and pros alike.
Oh, also, what Teejaysplace24 said. :-) The email looks fake, or someone's getting fired.
In a year or two, once Apple continuously rolls out added features, all the critics will be silent, and they will tout FCP as the best editing software on the planet. Every critic says its a fantastic foundation, but lacks features they need. Well, that's how Apple rolls. They are utterly unafraid to destroy the status quo if they believe in their vision for the future.
It will get better. Relax. In the meantime, nobody is ripping FCP7 out of your hands.
For the most part I agree. The thing that really gets me though, it that it's not backwards compatible. That really sucks and unfortunately will never be addressed.
In a year or two, once Apple continuously rolls out added features, all the critics will be silent, and they will tout FCP as the best editing software on the planet. Every critic says its a fantastic foundation, but lacks features they need. Well, that's how Apple rolls. They are utterly unafraid to destroy the status quo if they believe in their vision for the future.
It will get better. Relax. In the meantime, nobody is ripping FCP7 out of your hands.
My questions are how many sales have there been and how many complainers are there. What features are they freaking about and how many folks need them. And are they features you can get some other way
As for Apple admitting anything. Of course they will. To shut these folks up. Because you can explain to someone like that that no one said every feature would be there at all much less day one etc. Better just to say 'yeah you're right', give them their money back and be done with them
Good Work Apple. Professional don't have 2-3 years for FCP-X to get better, they need hardware and software that is production quality to do work and make money today.
Guess I missed the memo that all other programs were magically kill switch with this release
True pros don't start using a program day one cause they need to learn in etc.
It's not like FCP7 suddenly ceased to work or suddenly became obsolete.
Permanently removing a product from production is the very definition of obsolete. There will be no upgrades, no new versions. It's dead - it has no future. It's obsolete.