Samsung says it's competing with, not copying Apple

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
In its latest legal filing, Samsung has told a California court that it is competing with Apple, not copying the company, while Apple is instead looking to "avoid such competition."



The new statements from Samsung's legal team are in response to an amended complaint filed last month by Apple. Apple has accused Samsung of copying the look and feel the iPhone and iPad with devices like the Galaxy S smartphone and Galaxy Tab touchscreen tablet.



"The Samsung Defendants admit they have not ceased competing with Apple notwithstanding Apple's efforts to avoid such competition," the company wrote in its latest filing, as highlighted by Florian Mueller of FOSS Patents.



Apple has gone as far as to refer to Samsung as "the copyist" in its legal filings. But in its latest filing, Samsung suggests to the court that what Apple feels is copying, Samsung believes is competition.



"Intellectual property and competition are two conflicting goals," Mueller offered in his analysis. "The question is how to reconcile them. If all copying is allowed, there's probably a lot of competition, but investment in innovation and the introduction of new products won't be sufficiently incentivized. Innovators need a certain 'breathing space' -- but there must also be room for (fair) competition."







The new filing comes only a few days after Samsung asked the U.S. International Trade Commission to ban the import of Apple products. The courtroom battle between the two tech giants began in April, when Apple first sued Samsung for allegedly copying its mobile devices.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 96
    ivladivlad Posts: 735member
    Ok Samsung's clock icon looks exactly like iPhone's clock icon. If they can't even think of a different clock style, they are copying.
  • Reply 2 of 96
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iVlad View Post


    Ok Samsung's clock icon looks exactly like iPhone's clock icon. If they can't even think of a different clock style, they are copying.



    If that's the best Apple can come up with, they're doomed. A clock looks like a clock.
  • Reply 3 of 96
    mcarlingmcarling Posts: 1,106member
    I'm surprised Samsung found a lawyer who could say that with a straight face. Botox probably.
  • Reply 4 of 96
    citycity Posts: 522member
    Samsung has point here. There is no Apple logo or similar logo on their devices. Their phone doesn't claim to be an "iPhone" and is missing the word "iPhone".
  • Reply 5 of 96
    mac.worldmac.world Posts: 340member
    When Samsung went "back to the drawing board" after the iPad 2 was released and magically came out with the 10.1 Tab, which was little more than an iClone, I think there was a case to be made.



    But as both Bill Gates and Steve Jobs said in the early 80's, "good artists copy, great artists steal." Jobs is a visionary though, and that leaves all the other companies to copy.
  • Reply 6 of 96
    This website has become a he said she said.http://forums.appleinsider.com/images/smilies/lol.gif
  • Reply 7 of 96
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,946member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AndroidInsider View Post


    If that's the best Apple can come up with, they're doomed. A clock looks like a clock.



    Samsung didn't say that, a forum member gave that as an example. It's easy to legally explain away similarities in individual design elements, when the Samsung as a whole looks to be a more than just inspired by a competing product, I don't think that will fly in a court room.
  • Reply 8 of 96
    nagrommenagromme Posts: 2,834member
    The copying here is REALLY blatant, and repeated, and ongoing. Check out their iBooks clone app on YouTube, too. Right down to the shelves and the specific kind of page-turn effect.



    You can’t say “every clock icon looks like that” or “every smartphone” looks like that or “every tablet cover looks like that," because it’s not true. All clocks are similar, and all phones are similar... but they need not be THAT similar. And coincidences happen too... but not THAT many coincidences.



    I can see why Apple needs to send a message to all companies that, if nothing else, they’ll create trouble for those who copy too blatantly. AND that being a component supplier doesn’t grant you immunity for your choices.
  • Reply 9 of 96
    cloudgazercloudgazer Posts: 2,161member
    I think the problem is that Samsung actually thinks that copying IS competition.
  • Reply 10 of 96
    citycity Posts: 522member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post


    I think the problem is that Samsung actually thinks that copying IS competition.



    Yep! Samsung isn't counterfeiting the iPhone. What is Apple complaining about?
  • Reply 11 of 96
    cloudgazercloudgazer Posts: 2,161member
    I'd love to know what the conversation is like between Samsung and their outside council. Are outside council telling Samsung that they're in trouble here? Do Samsung just not believe them? It seems there's just a fundamental failure to grok that there's a difference between copying a feature such as 'has a touch screen' and between counterfeiting a UI.
  • Reply 12 of 96
    paxmanpaxman Posts: 4,534member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AndroidInsider View Post


    If that's the best Apple can come up with, they're doomed. A clock looks like a clock.



    A clock looks like a clock? Hands down the dumbest statement of the week.
  • Reply 13 of 96
    mattbookairmattbookair Posts: 155member
    This is like Barry Bonds saying "I wasn't cheating, I was doing my best to compete". Yes, Samsung are competing with Apple, and they're doing it using illegal means. Duh.
  • Reply 14 of 96
    xsuxsu Posts: 401member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post


    I'd love to know what the conversation is like between Samsung and their outside council. Are outside council telling Samsung that they're in trouble here? Do Samsung just not believe them? It seems there's just a fundamental failure to grok that there's a difference between copying a feature such as 'has a touch screen' and between counterfeiting a UI.



    If they could get away with it, they would have said the whole iPhone look and feel was actually developed by Samsung. It seem to be a Korean thing to do. Just like when they said Chinese characters were actually developed by Koreans.



    Had Apple not sued them, I could picture Samsung say exactly that after people's memory fade over the exact details surrounding the time when iPhone came out.
  • Reply 15 of 96
    modena360modena360 Posts: 49member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by xsu View Post


    If they could get away with it, they would have said the whole iPhone look and feel was actually developed by Samsung. It seem to be a Korean thing to do. Just like when they said Chinese characters were actually developed by Koreans.



    Had Apple not sued them, I could picture Samsung say exactly that after people's memory fade over the exact details surrounding the time when iPhone came out.



    Spot on!
  • Reply 16 of 96
    macrulezmacrulez Posts: 2,455member
    deleted
  • Reply 17 of 96
    palegolaspalegolas Posts: 1,241member
    I think Samsung's vision here is like:

    "What Apple is doing, we should do at least just as good."

    With such a vision it's kinda obvious where you'll end up.
  • Reply 18 of 96
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post


    I'd love to know what the conversation is like between Samsung and their outside council. Are outside council telling Samsung that they're in trouble here? Do Samsung just not believe them? It seems there's just a fundamental failure to grok that there's a difference between copying a feature such as 'has a touch screen' and between counterfeiting a UI.



    its so true. i was using the galaxy tab 10.1 with honeycomb for a week before i realized it wasn't an apple product...there were clues that should have let me know but being a diehard apple fan and therefore too stupid to do any reasoning i wuz fooled.
  • Reply 19 of 96
    cloudgazercloudgazer Posts: 2,161member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by palegolas View Post


    I think Samsung's vision here is like:

    "What Apple is doing, we should do at least just as good."

    With such a vision it's kinda obvious where you'll end up.



    Hmm, apple's phone icon is green with a white handset at an angle, clearly to be as good we need a green phone icon with a white handset at an angle!



    A blue telephone icon cannot compete!
  • Reply 20 of 96
    galbigalbi Posts: 968member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    Samsung didn't say that, a forum member gave that as an example. It's easy to legally explain away similarities in individual design elements, when the Samsung as a whole looks to be a more than just inspired by a competing product, I don't think that will fly in a court room.



    When a car maker becomes the first maker to introduce exclusively 4 cylinder engines ( and others start doing the same), is that considered "copying"?



    Perhaps the definition of "copy" vs "competition" should be legally defined in the court of law.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nagromme View Post


    The copying here is REALLY blatant, and repeated, and ongoing. Check out their iBooks clone app on YouTube, too. Right down to the shelves and the specific kind of page-turn effect.



    You can’t say “every clock icon looks like that” or “every smartphone” looks like that or “every tablet cover looks like that," because it’s not true. All clocks are similar, and all phones are similar... but they need not be THAT similar. And coincidences happen too... but not THAT many coincidences.



    I can see why Apple needs to send a message to all companies that, if nothing else, they’ll create trouble for those who copy too blatantly. AND that being a component supplier doesn’t grant you immunity for your choices.



    How do you define what the threshold is then? What is considered too much? What is considered too little?



    Perception is different for everyone.



    One person may say a color looks brown, the other may say its a dark yellow.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by xsu View Post


    If they could get away with it, they would have said the whole iPhone look and feel was actually developed by Samsung. It seem to be a Korean thing to do. Just like when they said Chinese characters were actually developed by Koreans.



    Had Apple not sued them, I could picture Samsung say exactly that after people's memory fade over the exact details surrounding the time when iPhone came out.



    Who said the Chinese characters were made by Koreans? Either you've heard from anti-Koreans or you translated it wrong.



    I can just tell by the way you just generalize people that you are racist or have discriminatory feelings toward another ethnicity.



    What has the Koreans done to you to deserve such a statement?
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