Hassan The professor can believe what he wants. So can the student. The student should not be rejected merit for having a differing view. Don't try to charm your way around this simple fact. I have no room for charmers.
Why can't people understand that a letter of recommendation does not have to be written if the professor doesn't want to write it for whatever idiotic reason he chooses?
If the student was failed because of his response to the professor's question, fine, sue. Everyone deserves equality when it comes to grading. However, a letter of recommendation is a completely different subject.
It's not like your cartoon at all, fellowship. Just like you couldn't recommend a devout satan worshipping cat sacrificing pagan to seminary school, this professor feels that he can't recommend someone to medical school who doesn't believe in evolution. That's his judgment and he has a right to make it. Stop the bullshit oppressed white christian male routine. It grows tiresome.
BR believe what you want. I differ with your logic to dismiss this. This is Wrong. I know many love to give a beliving Christian grief. It comes with the territory. No sweat off my back. However I will support those who are done wrongly.
[quote]Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook:
<strong>BR believe what you want. I differ with your logic to dismiss this. This is Wrong. I know many love to give a beliving Christian grief. It comes with the territory. No sweat off my back. However I will support those who are done wrongly.
I believe in Justice.
Fellowship</strong><hr></blockquote>
I never said that what this professor did was right. I simply said that it was within his rights to do so. Again, if you would stop playing poor persecuted upper middle class white mail christian for a minute or two and read what I write, you'd see that I'm not the evil person you try to depict me as.
If a letter of recommendation wasn´t omething that was voluntarily on the behalf of the teacher it would´t be a letter of recommendation. Then it would be nothing more than "the crap I have to do because the rules say so"
I never said that what this professor did was right. I simply said that it was within his rights to do so. Again, if you would stop playing poor persecuted upper middle class white mail christian for a minute or two and read what I write, you'd see that I'm not the evil person you try to depict me as.
BR I do not find you to be evil in any way. I wish you could drop your spill about "poor persecuted upper middle class white male christian" That is a blanket statement that is broad and has nothing to do with the specific issue at hand that I have a stance on. I am very honest about this. I have no complex about me that I am wronged. I have a problem with egg heads that think they have to make it their goal in life to brainwash students.
The question the professor asked is not needed to judge the academic status of a student.
[quote]Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook:
<strong>Hassan The professor can believe what he wants. So can the student. The student should not be rejected merit for having a differing view. Don't try to charm your way around this simple fact. I have no room for charmers.
Fellowship</strong><hr></blockquote>
Believe me, Fellowship, if I were trying to charm you, you'd be listening to Black Sabbath in my Clubhouse before the day was out.
Believe me, Fellowship, if I were trying to charm you, you'd be listening to Black Sabbath in my Clubhouse before the day was out.</strong><hr></blockquote>
[quote]Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook:
<strong>
BR I do not find you to be evil in any way. I wish you could drop your spill about "poor persecuted upper middle class white male christian" That is a blanket statement that is broad and has nothing to do with the specific issue at hand that I have a stance on. I am very honest about this. I have no complex about me that I am wronged. I have a problem with egg heads that think they have to make it their goal in life to brainwash students.
The question the professor asked is not needed to judge the academic status of a student.
This is very simple.
Fellowship</strong><hr></blockquote>
I have a problem with Group X that think they have to make it their goal in life to brainwash Group Y.
Hmm...Sound familiar?
Anyway, I'll say it again because you obviously still don't get it. Was it moral or ethical to deny the letter of recommendation to the student? Perhaps not. However, was it his right to deny that letter? Yes, yes it was.
End of discussion. That's it. Nothing further is needed.
so should we make a federal law that you have to write a letter of recommendation for anyone who asks?? and do we include that it has to be a favorable recommendation??? what if the professor writes, "Mr. blank is a student in my class and got an A. Other than that i really don't know this student well." hell, the school gets that info from a transcript...the school wants letters of recommendation to find out about the student in non-class type ways....that is why you get letters of recommendation from people you like and who like you...
what if the professor writes: "i really don't like mr blank because he sat in my class and didn't seem to learn what i was teaching"...does the student sue for this??
sue the school to get them to accept more varied letters of recommendation, but don't sue the professor for refusing to write one...it is his right to do...simple...
at least this professor is up front about it...how would you like to go to class, get an A, ask for a recommendation and the professor just say, "nah, i get a werid feeling from you, i really don't like you"....it is within anyones rights not to like you...can you sue if your professor dislikes you?? even if you get an A??
hard to write federal laws making people like you....g
ps...as i said before, i see this shit all the time...i am sure the professor is an ass...i am equally sure the student is an ass...isn't life grand
Almost half the population is with Fellowship on this - they are strict young-earth creationists. I think they have the upper hand right now, and some of us think that this type of anti-science attitude is a very damaging thing to our society (it does appear to be a unquely American phenomenon). I think he's taking a stand against this. Probably too extreme, but he probably feels that an extreme response is necessary because of the extreme nature (almost 50% of the population) problem.
again, if you don't get a letter or you get a bad letter it is because you asked the wrong person...ask another...if the school won't let you, it is the schools fault...i am sorry if you got a bad letter or no letter once FSCiB...but you must have asked the wrong person....i have never gotten a bad letter, but i am sure there are people out there who would have written me one...i was smart enough not to ask them...g
one other thing...why do we have letters of recommendation?? why not just transcripts and SAT scores?? well, what if you have 500 applicants for 30 spots and all 500 are "A" students with high SAT scores?? you need some info on the student themselves outside the classroom...that is where the letter or recommendation comes from...perhaps the school knows this professor is a dick, but they want applicants who get along with all kinds of people because they will need to be that way in the medical field...perhaps the school wants people who can talk and reason with many different people with many different thoughts and beliefs...the school may know that anyone who gets a good recommendation from this ass of a professor is someone who will do well dealing with the freaky people that show up at the hospital every day of the week....g
<strong>Why can't people understand that a letter of recommendation does not have to be written if the professor doesn't want to write it for whatever idiotic reason he chooses?
...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Okay so if a prof say, "no letters for n****rs" that would be his right too and we should defened him/her to the end. That's what you're saying.
<strong>Almost half the population is with Fellowship on this - they are strict young-earth creationists. I think they have the upper hand right now, and some of us think that this type of anti-science attitude is a very damaging thing to our society (it does appear to be a unquely American phenomenon). I think he's taking a stand against this. Probably too extreme, but he probably feels that an extreme response is necessary because of the extreme nature (almost 50% of the population) problem.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Science is not a democracy. The university is not a democracy. Classrooms are not democracies. This professor denied no one their rights. This kid does NOT have a "right" to a letter of rec. The professor has not persecuted him for his religious beliefs, since he has not attempted to take his religion away from him.
He denied him a friggin' letter. That's all.
As for TT's biology department...We don't know what semester this all happened. I find it extremely difficult to believe that this guy is the ONLY prof in the bio department who could have written this kid a letter.
Listen: the university is not about service. The university has, for the past few hundred years, operated under the principle that education is a good, and an end, unto itself. Anything positive that happens because of the education is irrelevant. It's the education that's important. And this kid got it. That's the mistake many of you are making. And regardless, this prof's contract I am sure does not include writing letters of rec.
It's the prof who's being persecuted her, not the student.
scott likes to type the "n" word with **** in it...
for a letter of recommendation, ask someone you know, ask someone who likes you...make someone like and respect you...that proves what a good person you are...g
Believe me, Fellowship, if I were trying to charm you, you'd be listening to Black Sabbath in my Clubhouse before the day was out.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hmm,..
And I was certain if such was the case he?d be wearing butt plugs.
<strong>scott likes to type the "n" word with **** in it...</strong><hr></blockquote>
and you like to type it as just an "n". So ....
[quote]Originally posted by thegelding:
<strong>for a letter of recommendation, ask someone you know, ask someone who likes you...make someone like and respect you...that proves what a good person you are...g</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes but if you're black and the prof hates you because of that then how do you make him/her like you? And if you're at a small school and that prof goes bad mouthing you to others ...
There's still a fresh smell of hypocrisy here in this tread. People keep putting a fresh coat on over the dried up one.
<strong>Almost half the population is with Fellowship on this - they are strict young-earth creationists. I think they have the upper hand right now, and some of us think that this type of anti-science attitude is a very damaging thing to our society (it does appear to be a unquely American phenomenon). I think he's taking a stand against this. Probably too extreme, but he probably feels that an extreme response is necessary because of the extreme nature (almost 50% of the population) problem.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Comments
Fellowship
If the student was failed because of his response to the professor's question, fine, sue. Everyone deserves equality when it comes to grading. However, a letter of recommendation is a completely different subject.
It's not like your cartoon at all, fellowship. Just like you couldn't recommend a devout satan worshipping cat sacrificing pagan to seminary school, this professor feels that he can't recommend someone to medical school who doesn't believe in evolution. That's his judgment and he has a right to make it. Stop the bullshit oppressed white christian male routine. It grows tiresome.
I believe in Justice.
Fellowship
<strong>BR believe what you want. I differ with your logic to dismiss this. This is Wrong. I know many love to give a beliving Christian grief. It comes with the territory. No sweat off my back. However I will support those who are done wrongly.
I believe in Justice.
Fellowship</strong><hr></blockquote>
I never said that what this professor did was right. I simply said that it was within his rights to do so. Again, if you would stop playing poor persecuted upper middle class white mail christian for a minute or two and read what I write, you'd see that I'm not the evil person you try to depict me as.
[ 02-21-2003: Message edited by: BR ]</p>
<strong>
I never said that what this professor did was right. I simply said that it was within his rights to do so. Again, if you would stop playing poor persecuted upper middle class white mail christian for a minute or two and read what I write, you'd see that I'm not the evil person you try to depict me as.
[ 02-21-2003: Message edited by: BR ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
BR I do not find you to be evil in any way. I wish you could drop your spill about "poor persecuted upper middle class white male christian" That is a blanket statement that is broad and has nothing to do with the specific issue at hand that I have a stance on. I am very honest about this. I have no complex about me that I am wronged. I have a problem with egg heads that think they have to make it their goal in life to brainwash students.
The question the professor asked is not needed to judge the academic status of a student.
This is very simple.
Fellowship
<strong>Hassan The professor can believe what he wants. So can the student. The student should not be rejected merit for having a differing view. Don't try to charm your way around this simple fact. I have no room for charmers.
Fellowship</strong><hr></blockquote>
Believe me, Fellowship, if I were trying to charm you, you'd be listening to Black Sabbath in my Clubhouse before the day was out.
<strong>
Believe me, Fellowship, if I were trying to charm you, you'd be listening to Black Sabbath in my Clubhouse before the day was out.</strong><hr></blockquote>
LOL forgive me Hassan..
Fellows
<strong>
BR I do not find you to be evil in any way. I wish you could drop your spill about "poor persecuted upper middle class white male christian" That is a blanket statement that is broad and has nothing to do with the specific issue at hand that I have a stance on. I am very honest about this. I have no complex about me that I am wronged. I have a problem with egg heads that think they have to make it their goal in life to brainwash students.
The question the professor asked is not needed to judge the academic status of a student.
This is very simple.
Fellowship</strong><hr></blockquote>
I have a problem with Group X that think they have to make it their goal in life to brainwash Group Y.
Hmm...Sound familiar?
Anyway, I'll say it again because you obviously still don't get it. Was it moral or ethical to deny the letter of recommendation to the student? Perhaps not. However, was it his right to deny that letter? Yes, yes it was.
End of discussion. That's it. Nothing further is needed.
what if the professor writes: "i really don't like mr blank because he sat in my class and didn't seem to learn what i was teaching"...does the student sue for this??
sue the school to get them to accept more varied letters of recommendation, but don't sue the professor for refusing to write one...it is his right to do...simple...
at least this professor is up front about it...how would you like to go to class, get an A, ask for a recommendation and the professor just say, "nah, i get a werid feeling from you, i really don't like you"....it is within anyones rights not to like you...can you sue if your professor dislikes you?? even if you get an A??
hard to write federal laws making people like you....g
ps...as i said before, i see this shit all the time...i am sure the professor is an ass...i am equally sure the student is an ass...isn't life grand
one other thing...why do we have letters of recommendation?? why not just transcripts and SAT scores?? well, what if you have 500 applicants for 30 spots and all 500 are "A" students with high SAT scores?? you need some info on the student themselves outside the classroom...that is where the letter or recommendation comes from...perhaps the school knows this professor is a dick, but they want applicants who get along with all kinds of people because they will need to be that way in the medical field...perhaps the school wants people who can talk and reason with many different people with many different thoughts and beliefs...the school may know that anyone who gets a good recommendation from this ass of a professor is someone who will do well dealing with the freaky people that show up at the hospital every day of the week....g
[ 02-21-2003: Message edited by: thegelding ]</p>
<strong>Why can't people understand that a letter of recommendation does not have to be written if the professor doesn't want to write it for whatever idiotic reason he chooses?
...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Okay so if a prof say, "no letters for n****rs" that would be his right too and we should defened him/her to the end. That's what you're saying.
<strong>Almost half the population is with Fellowship on this - they are strict young-earth creationists. I think they have the upper hand right now, and some of us think that this type of anti-science attitude is a very damaging thing to our society (it does appear to be a unquely American phenomenon). I think he's taking a stand against this. Probably too extreme, but he probably feels that an extreme response is necessary because of the extreme nature (almost 50% of the population) problem.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Science is not a democracy. The university is not a democracy. Classrooms are not democracies. This professor denied no one their rights. This kid does NOT have a "right" to a letter of rec. The professor has not persecuted him for his religious beliefs, since he has not attempted to take his religion away from him.
He denied him a friggin' letter. That's all.
As for TT's biology department...We don't know what semester this all happened. I find it extremely difficult to believe that this guy is the ONLY prof in the bio department who could have written this kid a letter.
Listen: the university is not about service. The university has, for the past few hundred years, operated under the principle that education is a good, and an end, unto itself. Anything positive that happens because of the education is irrelevant. It's the education that's important. And this kid got it. That's the mistake many of you are making. And regardless, this prof's contract I am sure does not include writing letters of rec.
It's the prof who's being persecuted her, not the student.
Cheers
Scott
for a letter of recommendation, ask someone you know, ask someone who likes you...make someone like and respect you...that proves what a good person you are...g
<strong>
Believe me, Fellowship, if I were trying to charm you, you'd be listening to Black Sabbath in my Clubhouse before the day was out.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hmm,..
And I was certain if such was the case he?d be wearing butt plugs.
<strong>scott likes to type the "n" word with **** in it...</strong><hr></blockquote>
and you like to type it as just an "n". So ....
[quote]Originally posted by thegelding:
<strong>for a letter of recommendation, ask someone you know, ask someone who likes you...make someone like and respect you...that proves what a good person you are...g</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes but if you're black and the prof hates you because of that then how do you make him/her like you? And if you're at a small school and that prof goes bad mouthing you to others ...
There's still a fresh smell of hypocrisy here in this tread. People keep putting a fresh coat on over the dried up one.
Professors can say "no" for whatever reason they want. Maybe it makes them a jerk sometimes but that's their right.
Pretty sad that you still think throwing the "n*gger" bomb out there will make your point for you. When your brain fails, be a drama queen!
<strong>Almost half the population is with Fellowship on this - they are strict young-earth creationists. I think they have the upper hand right now, and some of us think that this type of anti-science attitude is a very damaging thing to our society (it does appear to be a unquely American phenomenon). I think he's taking a stand against this. Probably too extreme, but he probably feels that an extreme response is necessary because of the extreme nature (almost 50% of the population) problem.</strong><hr></blockquote>
<img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[oyvey]" />
So you admit it?s just another tactic to stack the cards with "your kind of people".
Anyway, Universities these days are extremely overrated. I'd recommend a technical college as the way to go if you?re really interested in science.