HTC says Apple would rather sue than compete 'fairly in the market'

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 114
    unicronunicron Posts: 154member
    While HTC designs the guts and assembly of their phones, they almost always hire American industrial design firms to come up with the overall look of the exterior of the product.
  • Reply 42 of 114
    robin huberrobin huber Posts: 3,247member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by peter236 View Post


    Just by looking at the telecommunication related patents that Apple is actually holding, you will realize how few innovation Apple has made in the telecommunication field, compared with Nokia, Samsung and the others.





    Boy, that's a non sequitur if there ever was one.
  • Reply 43 of 114
    mdriftmeyermdriftmeyer Posts: 7,230member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    I think if you reread the settlement terms, Nokia did get some licensing from Apple, altho it's claimed nothing that's critical to iOS.



    Nokia got nothing from Apple wrt to cross-patent licensing.



    Quote:

    Espoo, Finland - Nokia announced that it has signed a patent license agreement with Apple. The agreement will result in settlement of all patent litigation between the companies, including the withdrawal by Nokia and Apple of their respective complaints to the US International Trade Commission.



    The financial structure of the agreement consists of a one-time payment payable by Apple and on-going royalties to be paid by Apple to Nokia for the term of the agreement. The specific terms of the contract are confidential.



    "We are very pleased to have Apple join the growing number of Nokia licensees," said Stephen Elop, president and chief executive officer of Nokia. "This settlement demonstrates Nokia's industry leading patent portfolio and enables us to focus on further licensing opportunities in the mobile communications market."



    This is Nokia agreeing to standard terms on the original license Apple wanted to pay wrt GSM and other mobile patents Nokia attempted to add a tariff on that no other licensee had to pay and thus started the whole Apple using and not paying to use turf war.



    Nothing in the language stipulates a cross-licensing agreement of patents. Try again.



    In fact, when and if Nokia attempts another stunt those same withdrawn Apple patent violations will come back onto the table combined with newer patents that is rather clear Apple has been recently granted in which no one else in the world can even claim to have similar.



    The quality of patents Apple is amassing for its entire product lines should leave large mounds of waste in the competition's shorts.



    It's July and Apple's cleared 400 patents granted this year-to-date. I wouldn't be surprised if they clear 750 by the end of 2011. That would be nearly 200 more than 2010.



    Unlike IBM with it's yearly 5,000+ Apple's patents are clearly materializing into massive revenues and profits.
  • Reply 44 of 114
    sevenfeetsevenfeet Posts: 394member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post
    • Not all of Nokia's patents were GSM patents, thus not all were covered by FRAND - and non-FRAND patents you can charge as much or little as you like. Even FRAND patents it can be complicated because generally they're part of larger cross-licensing agreements, which Apple didn't want to enter into.

    • Apple never really cared about Nokia's current infringement because Nokia is irrelevant in the smartphone sector right now, They didn't want to license their proprietary tech because it's always possible Nokia might not be in future. Apple's suit against Nokia was defensive, so naturally they dropped it as part of the settlement.

    • Nokia will soon be a WP7 shop and thus covered by Microsoft's licenses, Microsoft has full access to Apple's tech so the need for Nokia to play rough ended.

    Basically you're wrong about absolutely everything.



    I doubt seriously that Microsoft has full access to Apple's patent portfolio. The cross-licensing IP deal that they signed back in 1997 was good for 5 years....well before the current tech was developed or patented.
  • Reply 45 of 114
    davesmalldavesmall Posts: 110member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post


    So HTC's idea of fair competition is to be able to copy everything Apple innovated with the iPhone? The iPhone comes out in 2007, jump starts the smartphone market, and now everybody is copying it. Schmidt comes off the Apple board and Android suddenly takes off. HTC grabs Android, photocopies the iPhone and expects Apple to just sit back and "play fair"? Not hardly.



    Absolutely correct. Apple should win all of these law suits and HTC should go back to making dumb phones.
  • Reply 46 of 114
    ivladivlad Posts: 739member
    And if HTC can't innovate they just copy. Got it!
  • Reply 47 of 114
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,296member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post


    Nokia got nothing from Apple wrt to cross-patent licensing.







    This is Nokia agreeing to standard terms on the original license Apple wanted to pay wrt GSM and other mobile patents Nokia attempted to add a tariff on that no other licensee had to pay and thus started the whole Apple using and not paying to use turf war.



    Nothing in the language stipulates a cross-licensing agreement of patents. Try again..



    OK, I'll try again.

    Quote from Apple spokesman: “Apple and Nokia have agreed to drop all of our current lawsuits and enter into a license covering some of each other’s patents, but not the majority of the innovation that makes the iPhone unique,” Apple said. “We are glad to put this behind us and get back to focusing on our respective businesses.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/15/te...okia.html?_r=1



    By stating "not the majority of the innovation that makes the iPhone unique" it infers that at least some of the unique iPhone patents are now licensed to Nokia.
  • Reply 48 of 114
    bilbo63bilbo63 Posts: 285member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by davesmall View Post


    Absolutely correct. Apple should win all of these law suits and HTC should go back to making dumb phones.



    The people that constantly say iPhone clones are okay because "how else are you to do a touchscreen phone?" make me laugh... As if there's only one way to do it.



    It is possible to make a decent touchscreen phone without blatantly copying someone else. Windows phone 7 is a good example, it's a very decent device. It's biggest obstacle is coming out far too late.



    The iPhone, while not perfect, was very well designed right out of the gate. It set a new bar for what a smartphone should be and despite it's high price tag, it proved to be extremely popular with consumers. The reality is some of these companies did not want to take a chance on going their own way as Microsoft did. It was safer to mimic what had already been proven to be a runaway success. (crank out iPhone clones)



    I don't expect any company to sit there an watch someone rip off their designs. Apple gambled big-time attempting to take mobile devices to an entirely new level. That kind of R & D does not come cheap.



    I would agree that the patent system as it stands today, is a total wreck however and where Apple is proved to have violated others IP, they need to pay licensing fees too. Live by the sword, die by the sword.
  • Reply 49 of 114
    leonardleonard Posts: 528member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post


    The quality of patents Apple is amassing for its entire product lines should leave large mounds of waste in the competition's shorts.



    It's July and Apple's cleared 400 patents granted this year-to-date. I wouldn't be surprised if they clear 750 by the end of 2011. That would be nearly 200 more than 2010.



    Unlike IBM with it's yearly 5,000+ Apple's patents are clearly materializing into massive revenues and profits.



    I'm sure Apple will more than triple the number of patents you forcasted for 2011 with the sale of the NORTEL patents going through. The only question is who in the consortium of Apple, Microsoft, Sonny, Ericsson, Nokia, and RIM, got what in that sale. Only the consortium knows.



    There were 6000 patents in that sale and they are all phone related.
  • Reply 50 of 114
    steven n.steven n. Posts: 1,108member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AaronJ View Post


    OK, first off: What I know about this stuff could leave a thimble 2/3 empty, at best.



    Secondly, it seems to me that everyone is doing this to everyone else these days. It's not like one company is horrible, and everyone else are angels. Every day I come here, and there's some new patent case.



    Obviously, this is the way, partially, that people are doing business.



    At least it seems to me.



    The handset market is in HUGE turmoil right now due to Apple's disruptive appearance. 5 years ago, the players were all established and everything was right with the world. The iPhone showed the incumbents that old school computer players could play with the big boys in the telecom industry. Then Android came in and kicked into high gear. Neither of these systems came from players with any IP in the telephone industry but within a few years, they were sucking away all of the profits the industry had to offer.



    Stir the pot, you are bound to make the snakes unhappy.
  • Reply 51 of 114
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by peter236 View Post


    The Americans tend to mix up foreign countries. No wonder they don't even realize Apple is not always clean. Apple was made to pay Nokia and will be made to pay HTC, for copying foreign technology. When are Apple supporters going to realize that Apple has made very little innovation in telecommunications technology?



    Good thing you don't generalize. People who generalize suck! ;-) I don't know what Apple has bought to the telecom tech table, but I'm willing to wager it is more than HTC. HTC is an OEM. Nothing more. They would have nothing, to be frank, without American tech.



    Regardless, Apple's stamp on smartphones, I would argue is irrefutable and substantial. Simply look at phones pre-2007 and post 2007.



    Look at what has happened to Nokia. Decimated.
  • Reply 52 of 114
    Hopefully they'll learn to deal with the fact that Apple's competing fairly and suing them.
  • Reply 53 of 114
    neo42neo42 Posts: 287member
    Here is my quick (incomplete) comparison of the iphone 4g vs HTC Evo 3D



    Similarities:

    - Is a phone (cell radio)

    - GPS Radio

    - rectangular, backlit touchscreen

    - OS based on some flavor of -nix

    - volume and power buttons (in different places)

    - 3.5mm headphone jack

    - front facing camera

    - ambient light sensor

    - proximity sensor? (not sure if iphone has this)



    And then the different things Evo has:

    -custom home screens with widgets

    -3D autostereoscopic display

    -launch-from-lock-screen functionality

    -unobtrusive notifications

    -dual rear cameras

    -built in microSD card

    -replaceable battery

    -built in USB/HDMI w/ full storage access

    -touch navigation buttons



    Maybe Apple is just positioning themselves to "steal" one of the features in the second list. I'd welcome ANY of them, personally.
  • Reply 54 of 114
    mjtomlinmjtomlin Posts: 1,823member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by peter236 View Post


    Just by looking at the telecommunication related patents that Apple is actually holding, you will realize how few innovation Apple has made in the telecommunication field, compared with Nokia, Samsung and the others.



    Really!? Could that be because Apple is not a telecommunications company!?
  • Reply 55 of 114
    quadra 610quadra 610 Posts: 6,743member
    While you're reading about HTC and Samsung's replies, just remember:



    First came the iPhone. And then, all of a sudden, came everything else.



    Then, later, came the iPad. And then, all of a sudden, came all the other tablets.
  • Reply 56 of 114
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,296member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


    While you're reading about HTC and Samsung's replies, just remember:



    First came the iPhone. And then, all of a sudden, came everything else.



    Then, later, came the iPad. And then, all of a sudden, came all the other tablets.



    . . . and first came the Sony Walkman, and then came the iPod. That's not evidence that Apple copied the Walkman is it?

  • Reply 57 of 114
    garamondgaramond Posts: 107member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by j2-core View Post


    Apple has lost every bit of their integrity. They are going to find that their childish lawsuits are going to hurt them in the end when government rewrites patent laws loosening their scope rendering many of Apples patents void. Hell, Apple has done such a great job with their patents, the patent office will probably us them as the new standard.



    Oh look, another 2011 newbie with a healty Apple-hate.
  • Reply 58 of 114
    mjtomlinmjtomlin Posts: 1,823member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by peter236 View Post


    The Americans tend to mix up foreign countries. No wonder they don't even realize Apple is not always clean. Apple was made to pay Nokia and will be made to pay HTC, for copying foreign technology. When are Apple supporters going to realize that Apple has made very little innovation in telecommunications technology?



    When are you going to realize that Apple is not a telecommunications company?



    Apple makes mobile devices with cell radios that are used for telecommunications ... that's it. They buy parts (radios) and put them in their devices and write the software to utilize those radios.



    Nokia IS a telecommunications and has been for a very long time... Apple was not MADE to pay, Apple has stated that they always intended to pay Nokia for their IP, but only for a fair fee.



    HTC, like Apple, buys cell radios to put in their devices. They are not a telecommunications company either, but a smartphone OEM.
  • Reply 59 of 114
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Neo42 View Post


    Here is my quick (incomplete) comparison of the iphone 4g vs HTC Evo 3D



    Similarities:

    - Is a phone (cell radio)

    - GPS Radio

    - rectangular, backlit touchscreen

    - OS based on some flavor of -nix

    - volume and power buttons (in different places)

    - 3.5mm headphone jack

    - front facing camera

    - ambient light sensor

    - proximity sensor? (not sure if iphone has this)



    And then the different things Evo has:

    -custom home screens with widgets

    -3D autostereoscopic display

    -launch-from-lock-screen functionality

    -unobtrusive notifications

    -dual rear cameras

    -built in microSD card

    -replaceable battery

    -built in USB/HDMI w/ full storage access

    -touch navigation buttons



    Maybe Apple is just positioning themselves to "steal" one of the features in the second list. I'd welcome ANY of them, personally.



    That secondary list looks like a bunch of stuff I'd have zero interest in except for notifications.

    -custom home screen and widgets? IMO I bought a phone, not a house. I don't care about customizing anything. I just want it to work. As for widgets, it eats battery life and consumes data. If I need to know the weather I can look outside.

    -3D whatever? Not sure what that is. If it's basically 3D, that's ok. I find 3D to be a gimmick

    -launch from lock screen? I use my phone for work so it must be password protected upon locking. I can't and do not want anything launching from the lock screen without my password being entered which would make this feature useless

    -dual rear cameras? Why? What is the purpose of that?

    -sd card? I have plenty of onboard storage, don't want to keep up with an sd card, and those slots can get gunk in them from daily use

    -replaceable battery? I owned the original iPhone until this year with zero issues with the battery. Why would I need or want to keep up with an extra battery?

    -USB/hdmi? For what purpose? AirPlay works for flicking media to my tv, a $15 camera connection kit works fine at photoshoots and the less I have to sync my phone the better (can't wait for ios5!)

    -touch navigation buttons? Navigating what and where?
  • Reply 60 of 114
    bilbo63bilbo63 Posts: 285member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post


    Really!? Could that be because Apple is not a telecommunications company!?



    Interestingly enough, for me personally, the "phone" capabilities are what I use the least on my iPhone. It's everything else that the iPhone does and does well that makes it one of the best selling devices.



    This of course, just my opinion. I've be wrong before...Just ask my ex-wife!
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