HTC says Apple would rather sue than compete 'fairly in the market'

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  • Reply 101 of 114
    mac.worldmac.world Posts: 340member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    According to the best available information I can find, everything points to Apple rolling over on this one. Sources say Apple will be paying Nokia a bit over $600M to cover licensing fees on every iPhone sold to date, plus ongoing license fees currently estimated at $130M+ per quarter, based on each iPhone sold going forward. In addition Nokia received licensing rights from Apple on some number of patents. If all this is true, and there's no sources disputing the claims, I'm honestly surprised. It doesn't look like Apple put up much of a fight in this particular case.

    http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/nokia-...TL+(ZDNet+Betw



    This smells more like a M$/Apple backdoor deal that may have had implications related to the NORTEL consortium.
  • Reply 102 of 114
    shompashompa Posts: 340member
    HTC is a company that never have innovated anything themselves.



    They starters as an OEM company for Windows Mobile phones. OS invented by somebody else. The hardware standard of the shelf parts.



    BUT: They are a great hardware company. Being an OEM early 2000 for smartphones have given them experience in this area.



    Example of the huge cultural difference Apple/HTC



    HTC: no own OS. Apple: iOS



    ARM: founded amongst other by Apple. HTC just buys oem parts.

    CPU: Apple design it own ARM SoC. HTC just buys oem parts.

    Flash memory: Apple founded Samsung's flash unit by paying them 1 billion 5 years ago. HTC just buys flash

    Touchscreen: Apple original iPhone specified for a non stylus touchscreen. It took years before other companies could make touch screens with the same sensitivity.

    Infineon graphic: Apple owns a huge part of it. HTC just buys graphic parts.



    HTC is a gimmick company. They believe specs it was selling a pbone. Yes. The latest HTC has 1080P recording. The problem: IT DOES NOT WORK. The frame rates is between 10-30fps. You need a constant frame rate to be useful. HTC does not care that it is useless. They are just in for the spec, and many geeks just buys things on specs having no clue. The same thing for MobileFlash. It does not work, but they still believe that it is a huge feature.



    When iPhone5 is released I guarantee that 1080P recording will work. (one huge part A series CPUs superiority to todays Tegras. NOVA SIMD extensions.)
  • Reply 103 of 114
    cloudgazercloudgazer Posts: 2,161member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by shompa View Post


    ARM: founded amongst other by Apple. HTC just buys oem parts.



    Apple is an ARM licensee, nothing more.

    Quote:

    Infineon graphic: Apple owns a huge part of it. HTC just buys graphic parts.



    I've no idea what you're talking about here. Apple uses graphics cores from PowerVR, do you meant their owner Imagination Technologies?. Apple has a 9% stake, that's not a huge part. HTC by the way owns S3 graphics outright.



    Quote:

    one huge part A series CPUs superiority to todays Tegras. NOVA SIMD extensions.)



    you mean NEON, and I doubt that the A5's superiority to Tegra-2 is all that significant right now outside of the tablet market, where HTC has bigger problems anyway. NVIDIA and Apple are just on different product cycles here. Yes the A5 is more powerful than the Tegra-2, but the Tegra-3 will be out this year and is more powerful again. Apple will presumably jump ahead next year sometime with the A6, and then 6 months down the road Nvidia will jump back.



    The superiority of the iOS experience isn't based primarily on a superior SoC.
  • Reply 104 of 114
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by holy_steven View Post


    If all that there is to it is what you're saying "... they just wanted to pay the standard fee..." I don't see how any court would side against them with Nokia but the fact is that they settle they're paying and Nokia is still using whatever patents they said Nokia was using. I only see it as they knew they were going to loose in court period. As I said before the settlement "They will never win any of these lawsuits against mobile/hardware companies that have been doing cell phones when Apple sucked 10-15 years period" it takes more than icons/layouts/swipes to build a cell phone and the facts is that Apple is missing patents on the guts of what a cell phone is, patents that Nokia, HTC, Samsung, Motorola, Sony/Ericksson own and they don't want to just license to a competitor for only money. That's the reason Apple needed so badly the Nortel patents.



    No, Not really. Apple licenced Bosh-Siemens patents that cover very same tehnology, but Nokia invalidated those patents in EU courts and forced Apple to licence those patents again from Nokia, but their terms was, as already mention, way above FRAND prices, plus they wanted free acces to several iPhone patents.
  • Reply 105 of 114
    jahonenjahonen Posts: 364member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dragan0405 View Post


    No, Not really. Apple licenced Bosh-Siemens patents that cover very same tehnology, but Nokia invalidated those patents in EU courts and forced Apple to licence those patents again from Nokia, but their terms was, as already mention, way above FRAND prices, plus they wanted free acces to several iPhone patents.



    And where do you have a link or document proving the F/RAND and iPhone patent access claims?

    Fanboyism is fine, but stating a lie over and over again does not make it the truth. Facts/documents to back it up does.



    Regs, Jarkko
  • Reply 106 of 114
    cloudgazercloudgazer Posts: 2,161member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Neo42 View Post


    touch navigation buttons



    Apple did capacitive touch buttons way way back 10 years ago with the Cube. Nobody liked it.

    Apple did capacitive touch buttons again with the 3rd Gen iPod. Universally accepted as being the worst designed of the iPod classic family, mostly because of those buttons.



    If Apple did use capacitative buttons in future, it wouldn't be copying Android, it would be copying Apple, but it won't - because capacitative buttons are bad.



    http://designdare.com/the-capacitive...ust-be-stopped
  • Reply 107 of 114
    These patent lawsuits are getting irritating. And for once, I kind of agree with HTC to an extent. I think this "sue everyone and try to get more money/shutdown the competition/get royalties" thing is stupid. And honestly, WAY above Apple. Hell, Microsoft did this back in the day and I hated it then. Companies should be spending the ridiculous amounts of money they spend on lawyers on INNOVATING things. Someone needs to edit how software patents are looked at because at this rate everyone will be making more money off others' phones than their own. Ugh, if Apple turns into Microsoft I will kill myself; life won't be worth living. *Goes back to stroking my MacBook Pro* Hell, just thinking about running Windows makes me nauseous.



    On that note, I'm going to troll a bit here. For the idiots claiming that HTC copied off of Apple, PLEASE find me an HTC phone that looks anything like an iPhone (and if you point and claim a rectangular phone that has a touchscreen I won't even respond). I understand the Samsung Lawsuit. Dear god Samsung stole almost everything about the iPhone. But HTC? They actually have nice products. I don't particularly love the Evo 3D, but I'm happy that a company is taking a step into a new realm. And seriously, Sense is the Android skin that -hands down- is most disimilar to iOS. Touchwiz? Motoblur? You have an argument. But Sense? Don't just group all Android phones together when you've never used them. Just claiming that everything Android is an iPhone clone is just dense. Yes, Apple opened up the market. However, that does not mean that other people shouldn't be able to enter the same market in their own way. How many of you yell at Firefox for ripping half of its original features off Internet Explorer (<---ew)? Innovation my friends is good for us, the consumer.

    Sorry, it's just hearing that my Evo is somehow a ripoff of my iPhone makes me angry. I love both of them for their own reasons.



    I realize that my second paragraph/rant will be ripped apart by the die hard Apple enthusiasts who refuse to accept that anyone other than Apple is doing something right. I'm on an Apple website so I acknowledge what I have brought upon myself. I'm hoping that the regular Apple enthusiasts like myself can actually find some sort of truth in HTC's comment though. This crap needs to stop. That being said, Come at me counter-trolls! haha
  • Reply 108 of 114
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Sony launches "First Android Walkman" smartphone. Anything on the screen look a little familiar? Now admittedly I don't know if that's a stock app or a carrier app.



    Edit: Looks like a carrier app. Food for thought!



  • Reply 109 of 114
    pendergastpendergast Posts: 1,358member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by LogicNReason View Post


    On that note, I'm going to troll a bit here. For the idiots claiming that HTC copied off of Apple, PLEASE find me an HTC phone that looks anything like an iPhone (and if you point and claim a rectangular phone that has a touchscreen I won't even respond). I understand the Samsung Lawsuit. Dear god Samsung stole almost everything about the iPhone. But HTC? They actually have nice products. I don't particularly love the Evo 3D, but I'm happy that a company is taking a step into a new realm. And seriously, Sense is the Android skin that -hands down- is most disimilar to iOS. Touchwiz? Motoblur? You have an argument. But Sense? Don't just group all Android phones together when you've never used them. Just claiming that everything Android is an iPhone clone is just dense. Yes, Apple opened up the market. However, that does not mean that other people shouldn't be able to enter the same market in their own way. How many of you yell at Firefox for ripping half of its original features off Internet Explorer (<---ew)? Innovation my friends is good for us, the consumer.

    Sorry, it's just hearing that my Evo is somehow a ripoff of my iPhone makes me angry. I love both of them for their own reasons.



    HTC's phones aren't blatant rip-offs design-wise like early Samsung phones. But I believe the do potentially infringe on scrolling, pinch-to-zoom, multi-touch, slide-to-unlock, etc.



    Those are the features that separated the iPhone from the competition. Until 2.0 came out, Android was horrible, with terrible screens, no multi-touch, and bad zoom/scrolling. Then, suddenly, they did everything an iPhone does.



    I don't know, maybe the culprit is Google, but it's going to be easier to target the OEMs.
  • Reply 110 of 114
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jahonen View Post


    And where do you have a link or document proving the F/RAND and iPhone patent access claims?

    Fanboyism is fine, but stating a lie over and over again does not make it the truth. Facts/documents to back it up does.



    Regs, Jarkko



    Sure, I'll post only few links, but there are many more. (in no particular order)

    http://ipfinance.blogspot.com/2008/0...t-holding.html

    http://www.internetrecht-infos.de/al...bosch/?lang=en

    http://www.eweekeurope.co.uk/news/no...t-battle-32002

    Have fun
  • Reply 111 of 114
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,279member
    Ummm. . . Your first link appears to support Nokia's position. It was the buyer of Bosch's generally unused patents, IPCom, that considered FRAND terms to be an exorbitant 5%. Obviously Nokia disagreed with paying that fee.



    Your second link is related to the first, a disagreement over the licensing fees that Bosch and/or IPCom wanted Nokia to pay. Nothing concerning Apple.



    Link three is more of the same. No proof, in fact nothing at all to indicate that Nokia expected Apple to pay more than the 1-2% FRAND terms they considered typical. Certainly not the 5% considered Fair, Reasonable and Non Discriminatory terms desired by IPCom.



    Am I missing something, or were you answering a different question than what I think the OP asked?
  • Reply 112 of 114
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    Ummm. . . Your first link appears to support Nokia's position. It was the buyer of Bosch's generally unused patents, IPCom, that considered FRAND terms to be an exorbitant 5%. Obviously Nokia disagreed with paying that fee.



    Your second link is related to the first, a disagreement over the licensing fees that Bosch and/or IPCom wanted Nokia to pay. Nothing concerning Apple.



    Link three is more of the same. No proof, in fact nothing at all to indicate that Nokia expected Apple to pay more than the 1-2% FRAND terms they considered typical. Certainly not the 5% considered Fair, Reasonable and Non Discriminatory terms desired by IPCom.



    Am I missing something, or were you answering a different question than what I think the OP asked?



    Well, it was 10 year battle with lots of documents and links from five differente courts, but I`ll find it, In the meantime you can read nice sumary here (25 pages)

    http://www.docstoc.com/docs/66885351...ment-Agreement
  • Reply 113 of 114
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dragan0405 View Post


    Well, it was 10 year battle with lots of documents and links from five differente courts, but I`ll find it, In the meantime you can read nice sumary here (25 pages)

    http://www.docstoc.com/docs/66885351...ment-Agreement



    I believe that very soon Windows Phone will be a much more attractive product not just to customers but to HTC, Samsung and LG. In fact when Nokia start making great hardware I can see Windows Phone really taking marketshare from Android. Blackberry 7 will be DOA. Blackberry QNX 8 will not be out for another 15 months. It will have no apps. It will not be as easy as WP to write apps for. You can see it in the Playbook. Very fast OS. And nice hardware but no apps and no buzz.

    Symbian is in the coffin. The nails are being hammered in. WebOS never got going. And I don't see HP making the massive investments needed. Even today it has a mere 6,200 apps. Meego is just an experiment.

    So what I'm saying is that the phone market might be like the PC market. Apple get the top end, high margins and the glamour. Microsoft get the rump. I think that Windows Phone is the only OS that is original and not an iOS clone.

    I own an SGS2. It is considered one of the best phones. If not the best like at Techradar. But an OEM knows that they will get sued if they use Android. If they use Windows Phone they cannot get sued.
  • Reply 114 of 114
    neo42neo42 Posts: 287member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by freckledbruh View Post


    So basically all the stuff you listed is stuff you don't use at all but glad it's there? Again, that list is filled with stuff that few are truly interested in or need.



    I use everything but widgets. I have a larger microsd in the phone but may never swap it out. Regardless, I was able to bump the capacity for a fraction of the price Apple charges for the same type of upgrade in an iOS device.
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