They would need that new processor for a couple of reasons. One is that the extra pixels would need more GPU power to drive them. Mind you extra could mean four times the number of pixels. Second pixels require memory, fast access to memory. That implies more bandwidth to memory or one very big on board cache.
So what does this say? For me it says we won't get one without the other. Note too that the A6 run was described as "Trial Production", this implies that they are past the tape out stage. So the A6 could be ready to go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwlaw99
The previous post said the A6 wont be out until Q2 next year. So how is the ipad3 coming out this fall unless the only change is screen resolution?
When you consider that the iPhone 4 is almost 15 months old the next iPhone had better not be an iPhone 4S!
iPhone with some battery life improvements, some new features, iOS 5 update & A5 chip would work fine. There's no solid word as to why they pushed their update cycle this time, it might not be their fault given they use some Japanese parts suppliers.
Quote:
But an iPad 2 Pro would be nice, might even tempt me to upgrade from the original iPad.
Same here. I don't think a full third generation product is likely.
In fact it is more of a tool than any phone previous. Apple isn't targeting people that need a status symbol that they can wave around in place of their manly short comings.
When I see posts like this I really have to wonder just how gullible people are out there. I mean really has your current iPhone stopped working? Or for that matter is there anything out there that works better? Nope!
The problem here is than you are a fan and frankly don't value the iPhone for the right reasons. Value the device as a tool instead of a replacement for a short appendage and you will be able to better weather the release schedule. Your problems are all in your head.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NextTechnocrati
I will go with Mango once it releases. Just got tired of this "Sept-Oct-4S-i5" thing. Apple should realize that IPhone fans have been waiting too long and may not put up with this guessing game anymore. This guessing hype is getting old and counter-productive. Give us a date or else.....
No, no. It's not AppleInsider's fault. They're just reporting everything, which is better than selectively not posting crap (even if everyone probably thinks isn't true). WE are the legitimacy filter, not AppleInsider.
They're basically the only unbiased news source left. Look at it that way.
That's correct.
They need to post crap from Wu, Munster, Huberty, etc. because we know that whatever they say will not happen.
98% of the Apple rumors are false, so if you read some random speculation about Apple, it's probably wrong.
The two sources that actually have a modicum of reliability are AllThingsD/WSJ and Cnet. They seem to be fed stuff from Apple executives.
... Frankly I don't think we can have an iPad 3 with a high resolution screen without an upgraded SoC. Such a machine would need a faster GPU and more bandwidth to memory. So if you look at this as October being a month and a half away it really doesn't look all that impossible that an A6 based device could come this year. At least from a hardware standpoint.
A theoretical hi-resolution iPad only needs a faster GPU to maintain a level of performance equal to that of the iPad 2. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they released an "iPad 2 Pro", "iPad 2+", or whatever with nothing new but the retina display. If you think about it, the iPad 2's current GPU running at retina resolution would perform a lot like the iPad 1. You wouldn't notice the difference with non-gaming applications and I really don't see any reason for games to go whole-hog into retina graphics because, let's face it, it's a 10" screen. Games would continue along as-is in a "2x" pixel-doubled mode that the OS selects automatically. Of course, the device would feel a little memory pressure as various applications started taking advantage of retina-quality graphics... but that just puts the 512MB A5 chip right back in the same ballpark as the 256MB A4 in the iPad 1. It fits perfectly with Apple's iOS device strategy of giving you just enough hardware for a couple years of OS and application evolution before the device starts to feel constrained, ultimately nudging you toward upgrading.
If I recall from the iPhone 4 intro presentation, Steve said that they started work on the iPhone 4 before the 3GS was even released and it took Apple roughly 18 months to get the iPhone 4 to market.
I don't remember the quote, but I don't doubt it. I think the extended time frame and the overlap in that case was their change-over from building phones entirely of commodity components to building them with a combination of custom chips (A4) and designed-to-spec parts. It's not uncharted territory for them now and I suspect that the current delay is solely due to the late introduction of the Verizon iPhone 4.
A theoretical hi-resolution iPad only needs a faster GPU to maintain a level of performance equal to that of the iPad 2. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they released an "iPad 2 Pro", "iPad 2+", or whatever with nothing new but the retina display. If you think about it, the iPad 2's current GPU running at retina resolution would perform a lot like the iPad 1. You wouldn't notice the difference with non-gaming applications and I really don't see any reason for games to go whole-hog into retina graphics because, let's face it, it's a 10" screen. Games would continue along as-is in a "2x" pixel-doubled mode that the OS selects automatically. Of course, the device would feel a little memory pressure as various applications started taking advantage of retina-quality graphics... but that just puts the 512MB A5 chip right back in the same ballpark as the 256MB A4 in the iPad 1. It fits perfectly with Apple's iOS device strategy of giving you just enough hardware for a couple years of OS and application evolution before the device starts to feel constrained, ultimately nudging you toward upgrading.
So in other words an iPad with Retina Display but the same processor/graphics as the current iPad would completely negate the performance gains of the iPad 2. I think such a scenario would disappoint a lot of people, not the least of which would be the developers who have been writing software to take advantage of the iPad 2's performance capabilities.
I just can't imagine we'll see a Retina Display in an iPad until there's a new processor/graphics chip to either maintain or improve upon the performance of the iPad 2.
If the next iPhone only turns out to be a processor and RAM upgrade, I think this would be a huge disappointment for both consumers and investors. Apple has not released a new handset in well over a year and I think it would signal a huge problem with their
.
.
.
Keeping my fingers crossed!
The A5 is a serious speed bump on the gaming front. The GPU is a speed demon.
There's no solid word as to why they pushed their update cycle this time, it might not be their fault given they use some Japanese parts suppliers.
I have a hypothesis that the delay was more of a vague schedule extension to let Verizon have a little more time to sell the iPhone 4 since their version was released mid-cycle. Otherwise the early VZ iPhone buyers would feel cheated if the iPhone 5 came out so soon. Going forward VZ and AT&T will be on the same refresh cycle.
An Ipad HD needs 100% more memory/Graphic performance and CPU performance then todays A5 just to keep the same performance.
How is Apple going to achieve this?
The problem is that TSMC 28nm production won't ramp up until early next year.
If Apple is going to release an IpadHD now, they need to redesign the A SoC. PowerVR6 has taped out and dual core Cortex is available at 1.5 ghz. Wouldn't anybody have picket up that Apple had designed a new A class processor?
We knew about a month ago that Apple got back test wafers for something from TSMC. I assumed it was 28nm test wafers for A6 to be released next year. Could it be A5+?
Could the A5+ be the reason for the iPhone delay? I don't believe that, but if Apple has a new SoC, why not use it?
How can PASemi handle to design dual processor lines? An A5+ and a quod core A6 chip?
These rumors are not good for Apple if they are not true. I know of many people who have decided not to buy Ipad2 and wait for the IpadHD.
(don't forget that the original iPad HD rumor was started by a German PC magazine. Their inside information is probably zero)
The touch screen is the most expensive part in an iPad.
I would guess that a retina display will cost at least double.
The entry Retina iPad would cost 699 dollars. Isn't that a bit expensive?
BTW. Apple have supply constrain on iPad touch screens. Especially since they stopped using LG part because of quality concern. Now Apple is going to use an LG Retina display? Would that be much harder to manufacture then a non retina?
That leaves Samsung to manufacture screens. Apples hated enemy.
Since Samsung loves to pre announce things, why haven't they announced a retina Galaxy tablet already?
In fact it is more of a tool than any phone previous. Apple isn't targeting people that need a status symbol that they can wave around in place of their manly short comings.
When I see posts like this I really have to wonder just how gullible people are out there. I mean really has your current iPhone stopped working? Or for that matter is there anything out there that works better? Nope!
The problem here is than you are a fan and frankly don't value the iPhone for the right reasons. Value the device as a tool instead of a replacement for a short appendage and you will be able to better weather the release schedule. Your problems are all in your head.
Are you talking to yourself with personality and attributes you just mentioned? LOL!!! I can see how much iPhone has negatively impacted your life and your sanity. C'mon, it's just a phone. Tell your other self to just move on because there are other devices out there as cute as the iPhone if not better, instead of holding your orgasm for the next iPhone release.
So in other words an iPad with Retina Display but the same processor/graphics as the current iPad would completely negate the performance gains of the iPad 2.
Not at all... You've still got two CPU cores vs one in the iPad 1. So even without the GPU bump, you're already at close to twice the speed of the iPad 1. I chose my words poorly in my previous post... What I meant to convey was that an iPad 2 with retina display would only perform like an iPad 1 when it were being forced to render retina resolution OpenGL scenes... and I just don't see any reason for developers to use 2048 * 1536 graphics in a game being run on a < 10" screen. They could do it, but the user would have to break out a magnifying glass to notice the visual difference and their game would perform a lot like it would on an iPad 1. However, text as seen in the browser, email, social networking apps, etc. would be absolutely stunning at retina resolution on a screen of that size and it would have only a minimal impact on performance since the iPad 2 already has GPU to spare when doing those tasks at 1024 x 768 resolution.
No it doesn't. I suggest you avoid making 'factual' statements in future, you have an almost perfect record in getting them wrong.
Todays iPad: 1024x768 0.7 megapixel
Retina Ipad: 2048x1536 3 megapixel
Just look at gaming benchmarks. When you change resolution you get different results.
It may not be so easy as and linear like: 4 times the pixels means 4 times more CPU/Graphic and memory. Would you agree that an A5 would not be able to support a Retina display?
Why not be constructive? I have no idea what you believe I have "factual" wrong since you don't mention it.
BTW. It is fun how people are obsessed with a retina display iPad. Only 22% of PCs have 1080P monitors. Now we are going to have tablets with 1 million more pixels.
The touch screen is the most expensive part in an iPad.
I would guess that a retina display will cost at least double.
BTW. Apple have supply constrain on iPad touch screens. Especially since they stopped using LG part because of quality concern. Now Apple is going to use an LG Retina display? Would that be much harder to manufacture then a non retina?
Ok, maybe this is something that you don't understand I'll try to explain. The touchscreen is not an integral part of the LCD, it's an additional bit of electronics. Increasing the resolution of the LCD has no impiications for the touchscreen. Zero. Zilch. Squat. So the supply constraints on the touchscreen component do not matter.
Again I strongly recommend you avoid 'factual' statements.
Frankly I don't think we can have an iPad 3 with a high resolution screen without an upgraded SoC. Such a machine would need a faster GPU and more bandwidth to memory. So if you look at this as October being a month and a half away it really doesn't look all that impossible that an A6 based device could come this year. At least from a hardware standpoint.
The A5 could easily drive double the resolution, you wouldn't need a faster SoC for that. I'd even go as far as saying the A4 could possibly do it, as long as you only render the iOS UI at native resolution, and switch to 2x mode for games and other programs that are graphics heavy. Memory bandwidth is hardly an issue, and not actually dependent on screen resolution that much on mobile GPU's such as the A4 and the A5, because they use tile-based deferred rendering (ie: ideally, all data required for rendering phases after T&L come from ridiculously fast on-chip buffers). Of course memory size and bandwidth requirements will be higher if applications start using double resolution textures, but that's only relevant when you are pushing the limits, ie: in games and such. The only thing that matters for rendering the iOS UI on double resolution is fill-rate, since geometric complexity and texture sizes don't increase much rendering the same UI at double the resolution.
Comments
So what does this say? For me it says we won't get one without the other. Note too that the A6 run was described as "Trial Production", this implies that they are past the tape out stage. So the A6 could be ready to go.
The previous post said the A6 wont be out until Q2 next year. So how is the ipad3 coming out this fall unless the only change is screen resolution?
When you consider that the iPhone 4 is almost 15 months old the next iPhone had better not be an iPhone 4S!
iPhone with some battery life improvements, some new features, iOS 5 update & A5 chip would work fine. There's no solid word as to why they pushed their update cycle this time, it might not be their fault given they use some Japanese parts suppliers.
But an iPad 2 Pro would be nice, might even tempt me to upgrade from the original iPad.
Same here. I don't think a full third generation product is likely.
When I see posts like this I really have to wonder just how gullible people are out there. I mean really has your current iPhone stopped working? Or for that matter is there anything out there that works better? Nope!
The problem here is than you are a fan and frankly don't value the iPhone for the right reasons. Value the device as a tool instead of a replacement for a short appendage and you will be able to better weather the release schedule. Your problems are all in your head.
I will go with Mango once it releases. Just got tired of this "Sept-Oct-4S-i5" thing. Apple should realize that IPhone fans have been waiting too long and may not put up with this guessing game anymore. This guessing hype is getting old and counter-productive. Give us a date or else.....
No, no. It's not AppleInsider's fault. They're just reporting everything, which is better than selectively not posting crap (even if everyone probably thinks isn't true). WE are the legitimacy filter, not AppleInsider.
They're basically the only unbiased news source left. Look at it that way.
That's correct.
They need to post crap from Wu, Munster, Huberty, etc. because we know that whatever they say will not happen.
98% of the Apple rumors are false, so if you read some random speculation about Apple, it's probably wrong.
The two sources that actually have a modicum of reliability are AllThingsD/WSJ and Cnet. They seem to be fed stuff from Apple executives.
... Frankly I don't think we can have an iPad 3 with a high resolution screen without an upgraded SoC. Such a machine would need a faster GPU and more bandwidth to memory. So if you look at this as October being a month and a half away it really doesn't look all that impossible that an A6 based device could come this year. At least from a hardware standpoint.
A theoretical hi-resolution iPad only needs a faster GPU to maintain a level of performance equal to that of the iPad 2. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they released an "iPad 2 Pro", "iPad 2+", or whatever with nothing new but the retina display. If you think about it, the iPad 2's current GPU running at retina resolution would perform a lot like the iPad 1. You wouldn't notice the difference with non-gaming applications and I really don't see any reason for games to go whole-hog into retina graphics because, let's face it, it's a 10" screen. Games would continue along as-is in a "2x" pixel-doubled mode that the OS selects automatically. Of course, the device would feel a little memory pressure as various applications started taking advantage of retina-quality graphics... but that just puts the 512MB A5 chip right back in the same ballpark as the 256MB A4 in the iPad 1. It fits perfectly with Apple's iOS device strategy of giving you just enough hardware for a couple years of OS and application evolution before the device starts to feel constrained, ultimately nudging you toward upgrading.
i'm so sick of the iPad 3 rumors. it ain't coming this year.
If I recall from the iPhone 4 intro presentation, Steve said that they started work on the iPhone 4 before the 3GS was even released and it took Apple roughly 18 months to get the iPhone 4 to market.
I don't remember the quote, but I don't doubt it. I think the extended time frame and the overlap in that case was their change-over from building phones entirely of commodity components to building them with a combination of custom chips (A4) and designed-to-spec parts. It's not uncharted territory for them now and I suspect that the current delay is solely due to the late introduction of the Verizon iPhone 4.
A theoretical hi-resolution iPad only needs a faster GPU to maintain a level of performance equal to that of the iPad 2. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they released an "iPad 2 Pro", "iPad 2+", or whatever with nothing new but the retina display. If you think about it, the iPad 2's current GPU running at retina resolution would perform a lot like the iPad 1. You wouldn't notice the difference with non-gaming applications and I really don't see any reason for games to go whole-hog into retina graphics because, let's face it, it's a 10" screen. Games would continue along as-is in a "2x" pixel-doubled mode that the OS selects automatically. Of course, the device would feel a little memory pressure as various applications started taking advantage of retina-quality graphics... but that just puts the 512MB A5 chip right back in the same ballpark as the 256MB A4 in the iPad 1. It fits perfectly with Apple's iOS device strategy of giving you just enough hardware for a couple years of OS and application evolution before the device starts to feel constrained, ultimately nudging you toward upgrading.
So in other words an iPad with Retina Display but the same processor/graphics as the current iPad would completely negate the performance gains of the iPad 2. I think such a scenario would disappoint a lot of people, not the least of which would be the developers who have been writing software to take advantage of the iPad 2's performance capabilities.
I just can't imagine we'll see a Retina Display in an iPad until there's a new processor/graphics chip to either maintain or improve upon the performance of the iPad 2.
If the next iPhone only turns out to be a processor and RAM upgrade, I think this would be a huge disappointment for both consumers and investors. Apple has not released a new handset in well over a year and I think it would signal a huge problem with their
.
.
.
Keeping my fingers crossed!
The A5 is a serious speed bump on the gaming front. The GPU is a speed demon.
There's no solid word as to why they pushed their update cycle this time, it might not be their fault given they use some Japanese parts suppliers.
I have a hypothesis that the delay was more of a vague schedule extension to let Verizon have a little more time to sell the iPhone 4 since their version was released mid-cycle. Otherwise the early VZ iPhone buyers would feel cheated if the iPhone 5 came out so soon. Going forward VZ and AT&T will be on the same refresh cycle.
An Ipad HD needs 100% more memory/Graphic performance and CPU performance then todays A5 just to keep the same performance.
How is Apple going to achieve this?
The problem is that TSMC 28nm production won't ramp up until early next year.
If Apple is going to release an IpadHD now, they need to redesign the A SoC. PowerVR6 has taped out and dual core Cortex is available at 1.5 ghz. Wouldn't anybody have picket up that Apple had designed a new A class processor?
We knew about a month ago that Apple got back test wafers for something from TSMC. I assumed it was 28nm test wafers for A6 to be released next year. Could it be A5+?
Could the A5+ be the reason for the iPhone delay? I don't believe that, but if Apple has a new SoC, why not use it?
How can PASemi handle to design dual processor lines? An A5+ and a quod core A6 chip?
These rumors are not good for Apple if they are not true. I know of many people who have decided not to buy Ipad2 and wait for the IpadHD.
(don't forget that the original iPad HD rumor was started by a German PC magazine. Their inside information is probably zero)
Technically:
An Ipad HD needs 100% more memory/Graphic performance and CPU performance then todays A5 just to keep the same performance.
No it doesn't. I suggest you avoid making 'factual' statements in future, you have an almost perfect record in getting them wrong.
I would guess that a retina display will cost at least double.
The entry Retina iPad would cost 699 dollars. Isn't that a bit expensive?
BTW. Apple have supply constrain on iPad touch screens. Especially since they stopped using LG part because of quality concern. Now Apple is going to use an LG Retina display? Would that be much harder to manufacture then a non retina?
That leaves Samsung to manufacture screens. Apples hated enemy.
Since Samsung loves to pre announce things, why haven't they announced a retina Galaxy tablet already?
The A5 is a serious speed bump on the gaming front. The GPU is a speed demon.
I just want the A6 to come out so they will build ATV 3 with the A5 in it.
In fact it is more of a tool than any phone previous. Apple isn't targeting people that need a status symbol that they can wave around in place of their manly short comings.
When I see posts like this I really have to wonder just how gullible people are out there. I mean really has your current iPhone stopped working? Or for that matter is there anything out there that works better? Nope!
The problem here is than you are a fan and frankly don't value the iPhone for the right reasons. Value the device as a tool instead of a replacement for a short appendage and you will be able to better weather the release schedule. Your problems are all in your head.
Are you talking to yourself with personality and attributes you just mentioned? LOL!!! I can see how much iPhone has negatively impacted your life and your sanity. C'mon, it's just a phone. Tell your other self to just move on because there are other devices out there as cute as the iPhone if not better, instead of holding your orgasm for the next iPhone release.
So in other words an iPad with Retina Display but the same processor/graphics as the current iPad would completely negate the performance gains of the iPad 2.
Not at all... You've still got two CPU cores vs one in the iPad 1. So even without the GPU bump, you're already at close to twice the speed of the iPad 1. I chose my words poorly in my previous post... What I meant to convey was that an iPad 2 with retina display would only perform like an iPad 1 when it were being forced to render retina resolution OpenGL scenes... and I just don't see any reason for developers to use 2048 * 1536 graphics in a game being run on a < 10" screen. They could do it, but the user would have to break out a magnifying glass to notice the visual difference and their game would perform a lot like it would on an iPad 1. However, text as seen in the browser, email, social networking apps, etc. would be absolutely stunning at retina resolution on a screen of that size and it would have only a minimal impact on performance since the iPad 2 already has GPU to spare when doing those tasks at 1024 x 768 resolution.
No it doesn't. I suggest you avoid making 'factual' statements in future, you have an almost perfect record in getting them wrong.
Todays iPad: 1024x768 0.7 megapixel
Retina Ipad: 2048x1536 3 megapixel
Just look at gaming benchmarks. When you change resolution you get different results.
It may not be so easy as and linear like: 4 times the pixels means 4 times more CPU/Graphic and memory. Would you agree that an A5 would not be able to support a Retina display?
Why not be constructive? I have no idea what you believe I have "factual" wrong since you don't mention it.
BTW. It is fun how people are obsessed with a retina display iPad. Only 22% of PCs have 1080P monitors. Now we are going to have tablets with 1 million more pixels.
The touch screen is the most expensive part in an iPad.
I would guess that a retina display will cost at least double.
BTW. Apple have supply constrain on iPad touch screens. Especially since they stopped using LG part because of quality concern. Now Apple is going to use an LG Retina display? Would that be much harder to manufacture then a non retina?
Ok, maybe this is something that you don't understand I'll try to explain. The touchscreen is not an integral part of the LCD, it's an additional bit of electronics. Increasing the resolution of the LCD has no impiications for the touchscreen. Zero. Zilch. Squat. So the supply constraints on the touchscreen component do not matter.
Again I strongly recommend you avoid 'factual' statements.
Frankly I don't think we can have an iPad 3 with a high resolution screen without an upgraded SoC. Such a machine would need a faster GPU and more bandwidth to memory. So if you look at this as October being a month and a half away it really doesn't look all that impossible that an A6 based device could come this year. At least from a hardware standpoint.
The A5 could easily drive double the resolution, you wouldn't need a faster SoC for that. I'd even go as far as saying the A4 could possibly do it, as long as you only render the iOS UI at native resolution, and switch to 2x mode for games and other programs that are graphics heavy. Memory bandwidth is hardly an issue, and not actually dependent on screen resolution that much on mobile GPU's such as the A4 and the A5, because they use tile-based deferred rendering (ie: ideally, all data required for rendering phases after T&L come from ridiculously fast on-chip buffers). Of course memory size and bandwidth requirements will be higher if applications start using double resolution textures, but that's only relevant when you are pushing the limits, ie: in games and such. The only thing that matters for rendering the iOS UI on double resolution is fill-rate, since geometric complexity and texture sizes don't increase much rendering the same UI at double the resolution.