It may not be so easy as and linear like: 4 times the pixels means 4 times more CPU/Graphic and memory. Would you agree that an A5 would not be able to support a Retina display?
Would you agree that the A4 was able to support the iPad? The A5 is more than 4 times more powerful in GPU terms. Machines using lessor graphics cards 10 years ago were quite capable of driving a bigger display. With double the resolution they can always drop by half when running a 3D game, but use native when reading iBooks, browsing web etc.
The A5 is perfectly capable of supporting a HiDPI device.
Supporting those claims, both LG and Samsung are said to be working on low temperature polysilicon 2048-by-1536-pixel displays for Apple's next-generation tablet.[c]
Guess what the next Samsung tablet will have for a display. That's why I just don't get why Apple works with a direct competitor to develop key components. Might as well just give them the prototypes they asked for in court! Samsung makes half the parts anyway and can pretty much deduce what's coming. It's like they are a branch of Apple R&D. Can't Apple find a supplier that doesn't also sell tablets and smartphones?
Sorry for not reading all of the posts but it doesn't surprise me that there could be an iPhone 4S and 5 released simultaneously. There have been rumors that Apple has plans for two tiers of iPhones and this would fit that model. In fact there really are two tiers today if you count the 3GS as a second tier instead of just a "holdover model" or whatever they call it at AT&T.
The iPhone 5 seems to be headed in the all new model direction. The 4GS might just be a "new 4" with some internal updates which functionally replaces the 3GS.
The A5 could easily drive double the resolution, you wouldn't need a faster SoC for that. I'd even go as far as saying the A4 could possibly do it, as long as you only render the iOS UI at native resolution, and switch to 2x mode for games and other programs that are graphics heavy. Memory bandwidth is hardly an issue, and not actually dependent on screen resolution on mobile GPU's such as the A4 and the A5, because they use tile-based deferred rendering. Of course memory size and bandwidth requirements will be higher if applications start using double resolution textures, but that's only relevant when you are pushing the limits, ie: in games and such.
The only problem I see is you still have 4x the pixels to push out the frame buffer even if you're rendering the 3D at half the native resolution. But if it can do that without modified silicon, it might still be 2x as fast as the original iPad.
Guess what the next Samsung tablet will have for a display. That's why I just don't get why Apple works with a direct competitor to develop key components. Might as well just give them the prototypes they asked for in court! Samsung makes half the parts anyway and can pretty much deduce what's coming. It's like they are a branch of Apple R&D. Can't Apple find a supplier that doesn't also sell tablets and smartphones?
Actually the new Samsung tablet will probably have their already demoed display which is a HiDPI RGBW Pentile affair that Apple wouldn't piss on if it was on fire.
iPhone with some battery life improvements, some new features, iOS 5 update & A5 chip would work fine. There's no solid word as to why they pushed their update cycle this time, it might not be their fault given they use some Japanese parts suppliers.
Same here. I don't think a full third generation product is likely.
April/May it was reported that Iphone5 would be released late August/early september.
Ios was delayed, maybe because of the Verizon version of iPhone.
The software is whats makes the Iphone unique. Apple would not ship iPhone 5 with iOS4. Since iOS 5 was delayed 3-4 month, this is probably the reason for the iPhone delayed.
Apple at least tries to have a 3 month beta run before they release iOS. (that is at least what they have done historically).
What other reasons for the delay could it be?
1) The rumor about that the A5 is to hot? (I don't believe it)
2) Apple wanted to redesign the SoC? (Historically Apple have used the same SoC in iPad and iPhone. To have 2 different SoC designs seems to be a waste of PAsemi limited resources. )
In no way did Apple say there would be no new iPads this year. All they implied was that this is the year of iPad 2. I'm still amazed that people can read so much into that phrase that just isn't there. However it doesn't say anything positive to see "Kaspers Automated Slave" repeating the same mistake.
As to the A6 it is interesting that the rumors are about a "trial production". If this was a tape out you could expect another six months before integration and mass production. However trial production seems to imply they are well past that stage.
Frankly I don't think we can have an iPad 3 with a high resolution screen without an upgraded SoC. Such a machine would need a faster GPU and more bandwidth to memory. So if you look at this as October being a month and a half away it really doesn't look all that impossible that an A6 based device could come this year. At least from a hardware standpoint.
In any event keep the rumors coming.
I agree and want just to add this:
TSMC will have less then 1% 28nm wafer revenue in Q4 this year. Nowhere near enough for mass production of an iOS device. Earliest Q1 that TSMC can mass produce an 28nm SoC for Apple.
Actually the new Samsung tablet will probably have their already demoed display which is a HiDPI RGBW Pentile affair that Apple wouldn't piss on if it was on fire.
Wouldn't extinguish Pentile conflagration with penile evacuation.
Would you agree that the A4 was able to support the iPad? The A5 is more than 4 times more powerful in GPU terms. Machines using lessor graphics cards 10 years ago were quite capable of driving a bigger display. With double the resolution they can always drop by half when running a 3D game, but use native when reading iBooks, browsing web etc.
The A5 is perfectly capable of supporting a HiDPI device.
Yes. It can support it in a static picture. But you could not have one single productive native resolution App/game or anything else.
A game that have 40FPS would have less then 10 in retina.
So. We have to agree to disagree. I don't believe Apple release subpar products. They haven't done it so far.
I would understand a IpadHD if Apple redesigned its SoC. ST-Ericsson have a dual core 1.5ghz with PowerVR6. Since Apple license the same parts, they should be able to produce a similar SoC. That SoC would take away the performance penalty by rendering 4 times the pixels.
Sorry for not reading all of the posts but it doesn't surprise me that there could be an iPhone 4S and 5 released simultaneously. There have been rumors that Apple has plans for two tiers of iPhones and this would fit that model. In fact there really are two tiers today if you count the 3GS as a second tier instead of just a "holdover model" or whatever they call it at AT&T.
The iPhone 5 seems to be headed in the all new model direction. The 4GS might just be a "new 4" with some internal updates which functionally replaces the 3GS.
I hope for a cheaper iCloud iPhone. The NAND Flash is one of the most expensive component in the iPhone. By stripping it down to 4 gig and offer Icloid instead Apple could make the device smaller and cheaper.
I hope for a cheaper iCloud iPhone. The NAND Flash is one of the most expensive component in the iPhone. By stripping it down to 4 gig and offer Icloid instead Apple could make the device smaller and cheaper.
Except it's worthless with the telecoms limiting you to 2GB of data.
Ok, maybe this is something that you don't understand I'll try to explain. The touchscreen is not an integral part of the LCD, it's an additional bit of electronics. Increasing the resolution of the LCD has no impiications for the touchscreen. Zero. Zilch. Squat. So the supply constraints on the touchscreen component do not matter.
Again I strongly recommend you avoid 'factual' statements.
Ok. I stand corrected since I used the wrong term. I should have used the term "display panels". It could have been constructive criticism if you simply was not so rude.
My facts where 100% exempt that i called it touch display instead of "display panel".
Except it's worthless with the telecoms limiting you to 2GB of data.
I guess you live in US?
Many other countries does not have that problem.
A bit of topic:
AT & T has 1/3 of the recommended base station density for 3G. This is the reason for all dropped calls and data caps. AT & T tells us that the reason for this is because they won't get building permits for cell towers. I really don't believe that. They just want to make more profit by buying less cell towers.
There is also WiFi almost every where. The local 4 gig would be enough as a cache between WiFi spots?
Ok. I stand corrected since I used the wrong term. I should have used the term "display panels". It could have been constructive criticism if you simply was not so rude.
My facts where 100% exempt that i called it touch display instead of "display panel".
The problem is the same. Who is going to produce 5-10 million retina display panels?
A display with 4 times the pixels. Much harder to manufacture.
Who ever said that anybody would make 10million? What is being discussed here is an iPad-Pro, it's an addition to the line not a replacement. So if they get 1million Retina iPad screens that's 1 million fewer non retina LCD panels they need to find. There's no reason to assume that they'd be on the same production lines.
By your argument the iPad-2 shouldn't be using the A5 since Apple is supply constrained on the A4 and Samsung makes both. Actually that would have been a better argument since the A5 really is made on the same production lines as the A4 and is slightly bigger so fewer chips to a wafer.
Whatever lines LG & Samsung are setting up for HiDPI panels, will be completely new because demand for panels in the 10inch size bracket is growing exponentially.
The iPhone 4 is actually the fourth iPhone. To suggest they'll be an iPhone 4S is to suggest the next one will be the iPhone 6 and there's no way in hell Apple will cause that confusion. Enough already. THINK.
Yes. It can support it in a static picture. But you could not have one single productive native resolution App/game or anything else.
It could support the Kindle app, the iBooks app, Safari, Photos, probably 1080p Video. It could most likely support 3D games in higher resolution at current texture quality.
Quote:
A game that have 40FPS would have less then 10 in retina.
That's at absolute worst. The scaling factor is almost always less bad, and most games on the iPad are designed to work with the iPhone and iPad-1 as well, so they're scaled for an A4, not an A5. Given that the A5 has according to Apple 9 times the graphics performance, they'd be 90FPS.
In no way did Apple say there would be no new iPads this year. All they implied was that this is the year of iPad 2. I'm still amazed that people can read so much into that phrase that just isn't there. However it doesn't say anything positive to see "Kaspers Automated Slave" repeating the same mistake.
As to the A6 it is interesting that the rumors are about a "trial production". If this was a tape out you could expect another six months before integration and mass production. However trial production seems to imply they are well past that stage.
Frankly I don't think we can have an iPad 3 with a high resolution screen without an upgraded SoC. Such a machine would need a faster GPU and more bandwidth to memory. So if you look at this as October being a month and a half away it really doesn't look all that impossible that an A6 based device could come this year. At least from a hardware standpoint.
In any event keep the rumors coming.
Dave,
Deferring to your greater knowledge and experience in this area: Wouldn't an iPad 3's requirement for two potentially low-yield parts, the retina display, and the A6 -- make it unlikely for release in 2011?
Guess what the next Samsung tablet will have for a display. That's why I just don't get why Apple works with a direct competitor to develop key components. Might as well just give them the prototypes they asked for in court! Samsung makes half the parts anyway and can pretty much deduce what's coming. It's like they are a branch of Apple R&D. Can't Apple find a supplier that doesn't also sell tablets and smartphones?
Apple have been backstabbed now from many companies.
1) MSFT hail MacOS as the only operating system they want to use. Then they use mac prototypes to clone Windows.
2) Google is in Apples boardroom. Sees iPhone prototypes and clones it.
3) Apple pays Samsung 1 billion dollar in 2005 to get Samsung NAND FLASH unit of the ground. Apple use Samsung memory and their production lines to produce the ARM processors in iOS devices. Samsung back stabs Apple and release products with many of the same components that they deliver to Apple.
4) FoxConn. In the morning they do Apple stuff. Afternoon Dell stuff and during the night pirated version of the above stuff.
I wish Apple could use some of its money and start to manufacture some of it own stuff.
Buy Nokia. It is cheap and have great factories. (one of the reason why Nokia could do insane profits with mobile phones ASP of a bit over 100 dollars)
Comments
It may not be so easy as and linear like: 4 times the pixels means 4 times more CPU/Graphic and memory. Would you agree that an A5 would not be able to support a Retina display?
Would you agree that the A4 was able to support the iPad? The A5 is more than 4 times more powerful in GPU terms. Machines using lessor graphics cards 10 years ago were quite capable of driving a bigger display. With double the resolution they can always drop by half when running a 3D game, but use native when reading iBooks, browsing web etc.
The A5 is perfectly capable of supporting a HiDPI device.
Supporting those claims, both LG and Samsung are said to be working on low temperature polysilicon 2048-by-1536-pixel displays for Apple's next-generation tablet.[c]
Guess what the next Samsung tablet will have for a display. That's why I just don't get why Apple works with a direct competitor to develop key components. Might as well just give them the prototypes they asked for in court! Samsung makes half the parts anyway and can pretty much deduce what's coming. It's like they are a branch of Apple R&D. Can't Apple find a supplier that doesn't also sell tablets and smartphones?
The iPhone 5 seems to be headed in the all new model direction. The 4GS might just be a "new 4" with some internal updates which functionally replaces the 3GS.
The A5 could easily drive double the resolution, you wouldn't need a faster SoC for that. I'd even go as far as saying the A4 could possibly do it, as long as you only render the iOS UI at native resolution, and switch to 2x mode for games and other programs that are graphics heavy. Memory bandwidth is hardly an issue, and not actually dependent on screen resolution on mobile GPU's such as the A4 and the A5, because they use tile-based deferred rendering. Of course memory size and bandwidth requirements will be higher if applications start using double resolution textures, but that's only relevant when you are pushing the limits, ie: in games and such.
The only problem I see is you still have 4x the pixels to push out the frame buffer even if you're rendering the 3D at half the native resolution. But if it can do that without modified silicon, it might still be 2x as fast as the original iPad.
Guess what the next Samsung tablet will have for a display. That's why I just don't get why Apple works with a direct competitor to develop key components. Might as well just give them the prototypes they asked for in court! Samsung makes half the parts anyway and can pretty much deduce what's coming. It's like they are a branch of Apple R&D. Can't Apple find a supplier that doesn't also sell tablets and smartphones?
Actually the new Samsung tablet will probably have their already demoed display which is a HiDPI RGBW Pentile affair that Apple wouldn't piss on if it was on fire.
iPhone with some battery life improvements, some new features, iOS 5 update & A5 chip would work fine. There's no solid word as to why they pushed their update cycle this time, it might not be their fault given they use some Japanese parts suppliers.
Same here. I don't think a full third generation product is likely.
April/May it was reported that Iphone5 would be released late August/early september.
Ios was delayed, maybe because of the Verizon version of iPhone.
The software is whats makes the Iphone unique. Apple would not ship iPhone 5 with iOS4. Since iOS 5 was delayed 3-4 month, this is probably the reason for the iPhone delayed.
Apple at least tries to have a 3 month beta run before they release iOS. (that is at least what they have done historically).
What other reasons for the delay could it be?
1) The rumor about that the A5 is to hot? (I don't believe it)
2) Apple wanted to redesign the SoC? (Historically Apple have used the same SoC in iPad and iPhone. To have 2 different SoC designs seems to be a waste of PAsemi limited resources. )
In no way did Apple say there would be no new iPads this year. All they implied was that this is the year of iPad 2. I'm still amazed that people can read so much into that phrase that just isn't there. However it doesn't say anything positive to see "Kaspers Automated Slave" repeating the same mistake.
As to the A6 it is interesting that the rumors are about a "trial production". If this was a tape out you could expect another six months before integration and mass production. However trial production seems to imply they are well past that stage.
Frankly I don't think we can have an iPad 3 with a high resolution screen without an upgraded SoC. Such a machine would need a faster GPU and more bandwidth to memory. So if you look at this as October being a month and a half away it really doesn't look all that impossible that an A6 based device could come this year. At least from a hardware standpoint.
In any event keep the rumors coming.
I agree and want just to add this:
TSMC will have less then 1% 28nm wafer revenue in Q4 this year. Nowhere near enough for mass production of an iOS device. Earliest Q1 that TSMC can mass produce an 28nm SoC for Apple.
Actually the new Samsung tablet will probably have their already demoed display which is a HiDPI RGBW Pentile affair that Apple wouldn't piss on if it was on fire.
Wouldn't extinguish Pentile conflagration with penile evacuation.
Would you agree that the A4 was able to support the iPad? The A5 is more than 4 times more powerful in GPU terms. Machines using lessor graphics cards 10 years ago were quite capable of driving a bigger display. With double the resolution they can always drop by half when running a 3D game, but use native when reading iBooks, browsing web etc.
The A5 is perfectly capable of supporting a HiDPI device.
Yes. It can support it in a static picture. But you could not have one single productive native resolution App/game or anything else.
A game that have 40FPS would have less then 10 in retina.
So. We have to agree to disagree. I don't believe Apple release subpar products. They haven't done it so far.
I would understand a IpadHD if Apple redesigned its SoC. ST-Ericsson have a dual core 1.5ghz with PowerVR6. Since Apple license the same parts, they should be able to produce a similar SoC. That SoC would take away the performance penalty by rendering 4 times the pixels.
Wouldn't extinguish Pentile conflagration with penile evacuation.
Sorry for not reading all of the posts but it doesn't surprise me that there could be an iPhone 4S and 5 released simultaneously. There have been rumors that Apple has plans for two tiers of iPhones and this would fit that model. In fact there really are two tiers today if you count the 3GS as a second tier instead of just a "holdover model" or whatever they call it at AT&T.
The iPhone 5 seems to be headed in the all new model direction. The 4GS might just be a "new 4" with some internal updates which functionally replaces the 3GS.
I hope for a cheaper iCloud iPhone. The NAND Flash is one of the most expensive component in the iPhone. By stripping it down to 4 gig and offer Icloid instead Apple could make the device smaller and cheaper.
I hope for a cheaper iCloud iPhone. The NAND Flash is one of the most expensive component in the iPhone. By stripping it down to 4 gig and offer Icloid instead Apple could make the device smaller and cheaper.
Except it's worthless with the telecoms limiting you to 2GB of data.
Ok, maybe this is something that you don't understand I'll try to explain. The touchscreen is not an integral part of the LCD, it's an additional bit of electronics. Increasing the resolution of the LCD has no impiications for the touchscreen. Zero. Zilch. Squat. So the supply constraints on the touchscreen component do not matter.
Again I strongly recommend you avoid 'factual' statements.
Ok. I stand corrected since I used the wrong term. I should have used the term "display panels". It could have been constructive criticism if you simply was not so rude.
My facts where 100% exempt that i called it touch display instead of "display panel".
The constrain is the "display panel" that is manufactured by Samsung and LG. Especially now since Apple have stopped orders from LG. http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20110810PD200.html
The problem is the same. Who is going to produce 5-10 million retina display panels?
A display with 4 times the pixels. Much harder to manufacture.
Except it's worthless with the telecoms limiting you to 2GB of data.
I guess you live in US?
Many other countries does not have that problem.
A bit of topic:
AT & T has 1/3 of the recommended base station density for 3G. This is the reason for all dropped calls and data caps. AT & T tells us that the reason for this is because they won't get building permits for cell towers. I really don't believe that. They just want to make more profit by buying less cell towers.
There is also WiFi almost every where. The local 4 gig would be enough as a cache between WiFi spots?
Ok. I stand corrected since I used the wrong term. I should have used the term "display panels". It could have been constructive criticism if you simply was not so rude.
My facts where 100% exempt that i called it touch display instead of "display panel".
The constrain is the "display panel" that is manufactured by Samsung and LG. Especially now since Apple have stopped orders from LG. http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20110810PD200.html
The problem is the same. Who is going to produce 5-10 million retina display panels?
A display with 4 times the pixels. Much harder to manufacture.
Who ever said that anybody would make 10million? What is being discussed here is an iPad-Pro, it's an addition to the line not a replacement. So if they get 1million Retina iPad screens that's 1 million fewer non retina LCD panels they need to find. There's no reason to assume that they'd be on the same production lines.
By your argument the iPad-2 shouldn't be using the A5 since Apple is supply constrained on the A4 and Samsung makes both. Actually that would have been a better argument since the A5 really is made on the same production lines as the A4 and is slightly bigger so fewer chips to a wafer.
Whatever lines LG & Samsung are setting up for HiDPI panels, will be completely new because demand for panels in the 10inch size bracket is growing exponentially.
The iPhone 4 is actually the fourth iPhone. To suggest they'll be an iPhone 4S is to suggest the next one will be the iPhone 6 and there's no way in hell Apple will cause that confusion. Enough already. THINK.
Yes. It can support it in a static picture. But you could not have one single productive native resolution App/game or anything else.
It could support the Kindle app, the iBooks app, Safari, Photos, probably 1080p Video. It could most likely support 3D games in higher resolution at current texture quality.
A game that have 40FPS would have less then 10 in retina.
That's at absolute worst. The scaling factor is almost always less bad, and most games on the iPad are designed to work with the iPhone and iPad-1 as well, so they're scaled for an A4, not an A5. Given that the A5 has according to Apple 9 times the graphics performance, they'd be 90FPS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_A5
In no way did Apple say there would be no new iPads this year. All they implied was that this is the year of iPad 2. I'm still amazed that people can read so much into that phrase that just isn't there. However it doesn't say anything positive to see "Kaspers Automated Slave" repeating the same mistake.
As to the A6 it is interesting that the rumors are about a "trial production". If this was a tape out you could expect another six months before integration and mass production. However trial production seems to imply they are well past that stage.
Frankly I don't think we can have an iPad 3 with a high resolution screen without an upgraded SoC. Such a machine would need a faster GPU and more bandwidth to memory. So if you look at this as October being a month and a half away it really doesn't look all that impossible that an A6 based device could come this year. At least from a hardware standpoint.
In any event keep the rumors coming.
Dave,
Deferring to your greater knowledge and experience in this area: Wouldn't an iPad 3's requirement for two potentially low-yield parts, the retina display, and the A6 -- make it unlikely for release in 2011?
Guess what the next Samsung tablet will have for a display. That's why I just don't get why Apple works with a direct competitor to develop key components. Might as well just give them the prototypes they asked for in court! Samsung makes half the parts anyway and can pretty much deduce what's coming. It's like they are a branch of Apple R&D. Can't Apple find a supplier that doesn't also sell tablets and smartphones?
Apple have been backstabbed now from many companies.
1) MSFT hail MacOS as the only operating system they want to use. Then they use mac prototypes to clone Windows.
2) Google is in Apples boardroom. Sees iPhone prototypes and clones it.
3) Apple pays Samsung 1 billion dollar in 2005 to get Samsung NAND FLASH unit of the ground. Apple use Samsung memory and their production lines to produce the ARM processors in iOS devices. Samsung back stabs Apple and release products with many of the same components that they deliver to Apple.
4) FoxConn. In the morning they do Apple stuff. Afternoon Dell stuff and during the night pirated version of the above stuff.
I wish Apple could use some of its money and start to manufacture some of it own stuff.
Buy Nokia. It is cheap and have great factories. (one of the reason why Nokia could do insane profits with mobile phones ASP of a bit over 100 dollars)