Apple still pushing for $1.5 trillion US overseas profit tax holiday

1246789

Comments

  • Reply 61 of 161
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ktappe View Post


    Please stop just making things up off the top of your head. The holdup for Apple's new HQ, given that they have $76 billion in cash, has obviously not been money. The holdup, if you had been reading this very site, has been Cupertino planning commission and also obtaining the land from the previous owners.



    Please stop grasping at finding a defense for corporations not paying their fair share. And stop with the passive trolling. I know it's how you get your posting #'s into the thousands, but it's not constructive. Please, just stop.



    Yes, they have $76 billion or so in cash but not all that cash is here. I wonder if there's a way to find out what percentage of that is abroad.



    Who decides what a fair share is? You?



    Let's face it, a fair share would be where everyone shares equally. But right now the top 50% of wage earners pay 97% of all taxes. That tells me the bottom 50% (the ones who always bitch about others not paying their fair share) are the ones not paying THEIR fair share.



    And if you extrapolate further, you will see that the top 1% pays 39% of all taxes. That sounds like they are already paying their fair share... and they are probably paying your share already too.
  • Reply 62 of 161
    ahmlcoahmlco Posts: 432member
    Sure, but only if Apple takes the difference and uses it to build manufacturing plants and facilities here in the US.



    They're having problems building enough phones and pads and airs anyway. Why not make them here in modern, highly automated facilities? Why is it Apple can make a billion dollar commitment to Sharp to build a plant, but does nothing here?



    If Hyundai and Honda and Toyota can build cars here in the US -- and make a profit doing so -- then Apple could build computers here and do the same.



    Such plants, being heavily automated, might not create that many jobs. But I'd think that the spillover effects to the surrounding areas and local economies could be enormous. And SOME is much, much better than none.



    So there it is. Invest in the US, and you get your "holiday."



    Oh, and just to be sure, audit them after 5 years and make sure they've actually spent the money as specified. Otherwise the rate on that money is 50%, and you owe the US money.



    Plus interest and penalties, of course.
  • Reply 63 of 161
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sf_dude View Post


    yeah right... give the rich even more tax breaks.. peachy.

    so apple can invest in more factories in China to make products for sale guess where? IN CHINA. You get the idea who benefits from this.



    I hope you get filthy rich and the government soaks your ass to the bone with taxes!!



    What is it with you people beating up on those who actually earn lots of money. Why do you think that what others have made you are suddenly entitled. The government and you had nothing to do with their gain.



    You class envy, jealous socialist types need to butt out of other people's business.
  • Reply 64 of 161
    retrogustoretrogusto Posts: 1,025member
    Their framing of the situation is clever, but a flat-out tax break doesn't seem like the answer. Somebody is going to have to cover the expenses of keeping this country strong, safe and civilized, and a balance needs to be found between those who have little or no disposable income and the people and companies that have lots of extra cash.

    Warren Buffett wrote a good op-ed piece about this recently: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/op...uper-rich.html



    If companies have millions or billions in cash lying around that they haven't needed badly enough to repatriate, it seems like maybe some of this should be used to help the country that provides the education and infrastructure that has helped them thrive. They are framing the issue as if they wanted to help stimulate the economy but the government won't let them, but really if they wanted to they still could, of course.



    Perhaps a reasonable compromise would be to give companies tax breaks for hiring new employees, and of course if they use domestic or foreign profits, the tax break could be applied to those profits. In this way, if they are sincere about wanting to use the foreign profits to finance their growth, they should be satisfied.
  • Reply 65 of 161
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rjohnston View Post


    So, let me get this straight, if (for example) a company called Apple France buys computers from Apple, Inc. and sells them in France and makes a profit and pays France taxes on those profits - everything's ok, right?



    Then, Apple is going on about its business here in the US tries to make a decision about moving money that is sitting in Apple France's bank account to the USA. Taxes on that money have already been paid to France. And presently, that money would be taxed a second time if they tried to move it to the US. So, they have no need to move it -- if they don't, it gives Apple France plenty of cash to spend in France (they can buy some more advertising, hire more employees, or build more stores, etc.). But, if they do move it, then the cash is here and Apple can do things with it here.



    The choice is theirs, and as things stand presently with the double tax they'd have to pay by moving it, it makes more economic sense to just leave it in France. Companies make decisions based on factors like this all the time. If there was no barrier to making that transaction, it would occur much more often and more money would be in our economy.



    In addition, the US has the 2nd highest corporate tax rate in the world (behind Japan).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:In...By_Country.svg



    Compare this to the 1990s when our income rates were higher, but most other countries had higher rates than ours.
  • Reply 66 of 161
    “The current U.S. international tax system is the best of all worlds for U.S. multinationals,” said David S. Miller, a partner at Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft LLP in New York. That’s because the companies can defer federal income taxes by shifting profits into low-tax jurisdictions abroad, and then use foreign tax credits to shelter those earnings from U.S. tax when they repatriate them, he said.



    U.S. multinationals boost earnings by shifting income out of the country via transfer pricing, a system that allows them to allocate costs to subsidiaries in high-tax countries and profits to tax havens. Google Inc., for example, cut its taxes by $3.1 billion in the last three years by moving most of the income it attributed overseas ultimately to Bermuda, Bloomberg News reported in October."

    ~ http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-1...home-cash.html







    "The company (G.E.) reported worldwide profits of $14.2 billion, and said $5.1 billion of the total came from its operations in the United States.



    Its American tax bill? None. In fact, G.E. claimed a tax benefit of $3.2 billion.



    That may be hard to fathom for the millions of American business owners and households now preparing their own returns, but low taxes are nothing new for G.E. The company has been cutting the percentage of its American profits paid to the Internal Revenue Service for years, resulting in a far lower rate than at most multinational companies.



    Its extraordinary success is based on an aggressive strategy that mixes fierce lobbying for tax breaks and innovative accounting that enables it to concentrate its profits offshore. G.E.’s giant tax department, led by a bow-tied former Treasury official named John Samuels, is often referred to as the world’s best tax law firm. Indeed, the company’s slogan “Imagination at Work” fits this department well. The team includes former officials not just from the Treasury, but also from the I.R.S. and virtually all the tax-writing committees in Congress."

    ~ http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/25/bu...pagewanted=all
  • Reply 67 of 161
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by fecklesstechguy View Post


    If you make the US economy hostile to large companies they will take their operations elsewhere (moreso than even now) and simply treat the US economy as a market instead of home - which means they bleed even more money out of the US and into overseas economies.



    That's exactly what they are doing right now...not treating the US economy home and keep money overseas.



    Say we allow a one time tax holiday. What are the chances these corporations continue to bring money back over to the US? ZERO. They will continue to keep the money abroad for another 5-6 years and then complain taxes are too high and they need another tax holiday. GREED always wins.
  • Reply 68 of 161
    Just bring it back to the US and pay your damn taxes like the rest of us "people", money grubbing a-holes!
  • Reply 69 of 161
    ahmlcoahmlco Posts: 432member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Conscript View Post


    That tells me the bottom 50% (the ones who always bitch about others not paying their fair share) are the ones not paying THEIR fair share.



    Even if low-income workers are getting a break on income taxes, they're still paying payroll taxes and FICA. Not to mention state and local sales taxes, excise taxes, property taxes, etc..



    The next level up that's paying income tax pays a disproportionately higher percentage of their income in taxes than do those in the top brackets, who hide their money in trust funds, record income as dividends, and hire legions of lawyers to mine each and every tax loophole.



    Thus the "no taxes" sound bite is just that, a sound bite that attempts to cover up the real issue.



    There's even a good solution: Create jobs for that bottom 50% that pay a decent salary.



    Once that actually HAVE an income, I'm sure they'll gladly pay their "fair" share in taxes on it...
  • Reply 70 of 161
    kent909kent909 Posts: 731member
    Give them a tax break for every American citizen they hire.
  • Reply 71 of 161
    ahmlcoahmlco Posts: 432member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kpluck View Post


    That web site is written for, and by, idiots.



    "In 2004, Congress passed the Homeland Investment Act, allowing companies to bring back offshore profits in 2005 and pay a tax rate of just 5.25 percent, far below the 35 percent corporate tax rate. Congress passed the bill because corporations said the money would go towards domestic job creation."



    "However, according to work done by the National Bureau of Economic Research, 92 percent of the nearly $300 billion that companies brought back went to share buybacks and increased dividend payments."



    Idiots with facts?
  • Reply 72 of 161
    gbdocgbdoc Posts: 82member
    The tax holiday's not the problem; it's corporate offshore profits, and how they're taxed. A self-employed private U.S. citizen working abroad is subject to double taxation. Income tax must, of course, be paid in the country where the income was earned. Plus, the IRS demands that all income, earned worldwide, be taxed in the U.S. as well. There is a U.S. foreign-earned income tax exclusion for some of it (currently about $90,000), but all the rest is taxed, and there's no credit given for any taxes paid to another government. (BTW: there's no such double taxation in the EU. Tax is only paid to the country where it was earned.)



    While U.S. ex-pats hate it (who wouldn't?), they understand that that's the price for keeping U.S. citizenship. Of course, they also have no choice.



    So the question for me is really why a U.S. corporation should be treated differently in this regard than a private U.S. citizen. Why isn't at least some of their foreign-earned income taxed in the U.S. regularly? If you taxed it all, many such corporations might simply move abroad, lock, stock, and barrel, and the U.S. would get nothing at all. But being in the U.S. is, in itself, a good thing for many companies, probably good enough that, like private ex-pats, they'd be willing to pay something for it. What we really need is a fundamental re-think and re-vamp of our entire tax structure, but especially the corporate tax structure.
  • Reply 73 of 161
    You forgot to write that those low-income earners who pay FICA et al, get it all back and more in tax credits for low income and childcare. Quit playing the class-envy card!!! 47% pay NO taxes!!!
  • Reply 74 of 161
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ahmlco View Post


    Even if low-income workers are getting a break on income taxes, they're still paying payroll taxes and FICA. Not to mention state and local sales taxes, excise taxes, property taxes, etc..



    The next level up that's paying income tax pays a disproportionately higher percentage of their income in taxes than do those in the top brackets, who hide their money in trust funds, record income as dividends, and hire legions of lawyers to mine each and every tax loophole.



    Thus the "no taxes" sound bite is just that, a sound bite that attempts to cover up the real issue.



    There's even a good solution: Create jobs for that bottom 50% that pay a decent salary.



    Once that actually HAVE an income, I'm sure they'll gladly pay their "fair" share in taxes on it...



    You forgot to write that those low-income earners who pay FICA et al, get it all back and more in tax credits for low income and childcare. Quit playing the class-envy card!!! 47% pay NO taxes!!!
  • Reply 75 of 161
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Orangeoutsider View Post


    I hope you get filthy rich and the government soaks your ass to the bone with taxes!!



    What is it with you people beating up on those who actually earn lots of money. Why do you think that what others have made you are suddenly entitled. The government and you had nothing to do with their gain.



    You class envy, jealous socialist types need to butt out of other people's business.



    I think that's not entirely fair. Between me and the wife, we make just over $250,000 a year, so not what people consider rich, though it puts us in the top 10% of US households, so actually, it is what should be considered rich (we've lost track of what rich and poor is in my opinion).



    However, despite what I earn, I will freely admit that I don't pay a fair amount of tax. To me it just doesn't seem morally right that I can significantly lower my tax bill because I have a large mortgage, meaning someone who can only afford to rent has to pay a higher percentage tax than me.



    The problem with the tax system for me at the moment is one of fairness. To be the whole system does not seem fair at the moment. I don't think it's a case of the less well off deserving a free ride, but I do think it's not right that we don't fund education properly, for example.
  • Reply 76 of 161
    bigpicsbigpics Posts: 1,397member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I'm all for this so-called tax holiday.



    PS: This is article about politics so I'm surprised at how tame the rhetoric is so far. If ever there was a thread for crazies to take their soapbox this is it.



    Au contraire, I'm appalled by the general level of ignorance about how economies and businesses actually on these forums (examples below).



    But then I just read the infographic detailing the demo diffs between iPhone and Android users, and it won't make me change my products of choice, but Apple users are much bluer as a group. As is Steve, of course, and Apple did put Al Gore on the board.



    Witness:

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bad_ika View Post


    Think different. Compel repatriation and tax it at 70% at threat of imprisonment for all senior executives.



    Thanks for your helpful input, Commissar! Shape up these bourgeoisie pigs or shackle and send them to Siberia for "re-education"! And PS, that's not "thinking different," it's simply rehashed Marx channeled through Stalin. Both demonstrated masters of how to make an economy hum by harnessing the most effective tools for managing and encouraging proper human motivation. Not.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by studiomusic View Post


    What's 5% of $1.5 trillion?

    Much better than 0% of $1.5 trillion.



    Guess what - as per the thinking above and below, many here aren't going to get that.....

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by simonsharks View Post


    If it really is about "investment" then so be it. Allow them to bring back their money tax free on the condition that they actually do reinvest it. Call their bluff!



    What - do you think they stuff it in vaults and swim around in it like Scrooge McDuck? Or just stick it in mattresses....? On the other hand, if instead of this insane impulse to CONTROL what businessfolk do, you want to talk about incentivizing economic activities we want to occur (like, first, incentivizing bringing the money here in the first place as this proposal does), then we have a basis for dialog.



    To be fair to you, though, our banks - propped up with trillions of dubious "FedBucks" courtesy of FR Chairman Bernanke - are kind of doing that, but the money repatriated by non-financial corps will be circulating and invested in something here instead of being isolated outside of the country.



    And even if not all poured into hiring and building, etc., it's bound to be beneficial to have even their accounts and gold and such here.



    Multi-nationals (like it or not/rightly or wrongly) find "home" to be where their capital and markets are. Keeping the money overseas makes American corps gradually less American.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SiMBa37 View Post


    So let me get this straight, our federal and state governments have no cash to fund any programs from school aid to health care, they are unwilling to tax the rich for revenue...and somehow repatrioting $1 trillion + dollars tax free is going to somehow stimulate the economy? Remind me how again?



    So let me get this straight, despite record government spending (where "poor, modest civil servants" have greater job security/layoff immunity, higher wages, better retirement and health care and amazingly more paid leave than workers in the private sector) - and where Medicaid is the single largest item in most state budgets, we're funding no "programs from school aid to health care"?



    And 5% = tax free?



    And the top 5% of earners paying over half of all federal income taxes collected = not taxing the rich for revenue?



    Damn, you could have fooled me.



    Remind me where you studied math again??

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bad_ika;1927798...


    It's a very simple issue of who is stronger, governments or corporations.



    Or unions or other non-corp lobbying groups representing social program and other subsidy beneficiaries - corporate and otherwise, plus contractors who depend on gov't for their businesses, and finally, media, 90%+ of whose reporters and content producers support big gov't and its programs - who, collectively, form the backbone of "strong" gov't. support.



    (The fact that 90% or more of reporters personally vote Democratic has been studied and replicated several times - and that doesn't include the movie, video and music communities who command so much of our collective attention, and of whom probably over 95% are demonstrably on the left to far left in nearly piece of "propa-tainment" they offer us.)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cheviot View Post


    Doesn't Apple already have 87 billion in cash they aren't spending? What would adding to the pile of money do?



    Argghhh. Again, it's not in a mattress. And even if it is, we're better off as a country if it's in a mattress in the US. (And given that Apple now has more cash reserves than the US gov't., which, yes is true, again, I know I'd prefer those to be on shore in these times.)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post


    It brings the money home and gives it to people like Steve Jobs who aren't hurting for money instead of the people now struggling to feed their families because their jobs are being shipped overseas to slave labor factories.



    This sentence is so twisted into a pretzel as to almost defy comment. If Apple could deploy more of its cash here, it might spend more here. And of course things like building their huge new data center and proposed new "spaceship" HQ - funding many construction and related jobs - to handle their growing number of US employees only ships jobs overseas to slave labor factories.



    Uhhhh...... .....what????
  • Reply 77 of 161
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Orangeoutsider View Post


    You forgot to write that those low-income earners who pay FICA et al, get it all back and more in tax credits for low income and childcare. Quit playing the class-envy card!!! 47% pay NO taxes!!!



    You mean 47% pay no "income taxes". When you factor in all taxes on average the wealthy pay only marginally more as a percentage of their income in taxes than everybody else. See Figure 7 (about 3/5's down the page) here- http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesam...er/wealth.html
  • Reply 78 of 161
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gbdoc View Post


    So the question for me is really why a U.S. corporation should be treated differently in this regard than a private U.S. citizen.



    That's a good question considering corporations are "people" these days afterall....
  • Reply 79 of 161
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by studiomusic View Post


    What's 5% of $1.5 trillion?

    Much better than 0% of $1.5 trillion.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I'm all for this so-called tax holiday.





    PS: This is article about politics so I'm surprised at how tame the rhetoric is so far. If ever there was a thread for crazies to take their soapbox this is it.



    Well that would provide about $79 Billion in taxes at 5.25%. The regular tax rate is 35% which does appear high. at 10.5 it would still be to the companies advantage and provide $157.5 Billion.



    Apple had around $12 Billion in June, but it's likely more buy now. They would pay $630 Million at 5.25% vs. $4.2 Billion at 35% a $3.57 Billion saving for Apple.



    You must realize that Apple and these other companies likely payed local taxes on this money to the country the sale was conducted in. The US is just taking a cut for them bringing it back home to the US.
  • Reply 80 of 161
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macinthe408 View Post


    Where is my fucking tax holiday?



    It's called jail, hold your soap bar tightly.
Sign In or Register to comment.