The fact is in Q2 2011 85million Windows PC's were sold. 6% is great, but I look at those charts and 92% is a tad better. Those number have barely moved in 10-15 years. I never said anything about profit, market share only.
Yes.. Market share is the only important factor and is the only measure of success. Just ask HP.
The fact is in Q2 2011 85million Windows PC's were sold. 6% is great, but I look at those charts and 92% is a tad better. Those number have barely moved in 10-15 years. I never said anything about profit, market share only.
And yet, profit is what shareholders ultimately care about.
Because of poor PC profitability, Acer dumped their CEO and HP is looking to spin off their Personal Systems Group.
Marketshare dominance is not a valid measure of success.
It's encouraging that over 50% of people are still using XP. That probably means they have old computers, and may be looking to upgrade at some point. The Win 7 people are those who have recently upgraded and already decided against a Mac.
Perhaps. But I've got old hardware and it's running Windows 7. That old hardware is a 2007 MacBook Pro. And it's running in a VM.
I really don't see the correlation to Lion. Lion isn't really a selling point for switchers or first time buyers, which is pretty much the only way to increase your percentage of the installed base. Those types of buyers are just buying the Apple brand. They probably have not even heard about Lion. It is not advertised on TV. In my opinion Lion is actually quite screwed up, but hopefully that won't deter Mac sales growth.
What i am seeing are ipad purchasers moving to macs. The ipad and iphone are great lead ins.
Lion has some kinks but in some cases i would recommend an immediate upgrade to it.
"Who cares?" Apple does, for sure. In the first half of 2011, Greater China accounted for 10% of Apple sales, a growth of over 4x from the prior year.
What an ignorant little post. Your first, at that.
I was referencing Microsoft's 92% marketshare not Apple's.
Yeah, sure, MS has 92% marketshare but that number is inflated by piracy and counterfieting which is far more wide spread in China, India and Africa.
On the Apple side of things is much harder to inflate the numbers since unless you're running a hackintosh you'd have to own Apple hardware.
So when you take marketshare into account, Apple's 6% takes on far more significance when gauging revenue and trends since the cost of ownership for Mac is always going to be a greater expense than a $200+ PC with an easily pirated copy of Windows.
Come to Africa and Asia and see for yourself. I know from experience not ignorance.
I'm not saying everyone in Africa and Asia is a thief but we all know piracy is higher in those regions. We also know those regions are generally less profitable due to lower income levels. Thus Microsoft's 92% takes on less significance than Apple's 6%, a large portion of which is in more affluent nations like the US.
You're right about China. Massive potential for growth. Same goes for India and a few countries in Africa. But as I said, before, Apple's share is far more significant when you take into account the cost of ownership.
Next time I'll try to be a little less crass when making a comment.
Yeah, what difference could it make whether something is true or not?
Sources believe you worship Satan. They offered no explanation for this estimation.
That assumes that just because the guy didn't explain his reasoning that he didn't have any justification for the statement.
An executive from a major company doesn't make an inflammatory statement like that without SOME reason to believe that it's true. If he were merely making numbers up, it would open them up to massive lawsuits. So I conclude that while the exact number may or may not be correct, there is some legitimate evidence suggesting that actual sales of the Tab are extremely low.
I was referencing Microsoft's 92% marketshare not Apple's.
Yeah, sure, MS has 92% marketshare but that number is inflated by piracy and counterfieting which is far more wide spread in China, India and Africa.
That is not true. Piracy and counterfeiting would not inflate market share numbers. Market share is the percentage of units sold, not the percentage in use.
That is not true. Piracy and counterfeiting would not inflate market share numbers. Market share is the percentage of units sold, not the percentage in use.
Are we reading the same article? The numbers are based USAGE not SALES.
So yes, in this case piracy and counterfeiting would inflate the numbers.
So does the U.S. You're being discriminatory against entire countries based on stereotypes. That's sick.
So if I said a higher percentage of people in China, India and Africa are poorer and undereducated than their counterparts in the West that would be a stereotype too, right?
Just because you don't like the facts doesn't make them wrong or discriminatory.
Clearly this chart published by the BSA is totally wrong.
Here's a breakdown by country. Notice all the poorer countries/regions are on top.
So if I said a higher percentage of people in China, India and Africa are poorer and undereducated than their counterparts in the West that would be a stereotype too, right?
Except this:
Quote:
Piracy and counterfeiting would not inflate market share numbers. Market share is the percentage of units sold, not the percentage in use.
On the last question. I've known many switchers that say that for a few months as they feel lost at sea for a while. Then, in my experience, they start to love their Mac. I've never known one switch back by choice.
I know one lady who didn't wast to learn to use the OS. She gave the Mac to her daughter and bought another Winbox. It's is the shop again. Her daughter is still happy.
I know one lady who didn't wast to learn to use the OS. She gave the Mac to her daughter and bought another Winbox. It's is the shop again. Her daughter is still happy.
Yes, simplicity and easy of use can be confusing after being exposed to Windows.
"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said a faster horse." - Henry Ford
No doubt. With only 92% of the market they should be in a total panic.
Yep, when the opposite 90%+ figure is Apple's share of the $1000+ PC market, and Apple's over double digits in the US (which hasn't happened in a Loooong ass time). Premium buyers are trend-setters, and they're also the bigger consumers of 3rd party apps, accessories, etc. And most people want to be where the trendies are, not stuck in a trailer park with a plastic Dell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
Because taking 1/3 of the world's PC profits means they are a failure.
I wouldn't mind failing that way, thank you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
On the last question. I've known many switchers that say that for a few months as they feel lost at sea for a while. Then, in my experience, they start to love their Mac. I've never known one switch back by choice.
Frankly, now that I know both, and spend most of my time in apps common to both (Word, Photoshop, Chrome, iTunes), I'm results-oriented and both meet my needs while working. So no religious fervor for me there. I do like the look and feel of the UI much better (in general, not in every nuance), but my brain quit thinking about that years ago. When I sit down, I just wanna get my shit DONE.
I prefer Mac mostly because a) I have to futz with it less, b) replace (nicer) hardware less often and c) because the trackpad experience is immeasurably better. However with the advent of Lion (5 steps forward, 3 back), iCloud and iOS 5, the (more) complete integration of devices will probably stick me deeper into the Mac ecosystem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WardC
The Mac market share will NEVER pick up unless Apple can sell a fully functional Mac OS X desktop or laptop for under $500, period....they would have to hit the low price points to be able to compete on a series "takeover market-share" level with the PC market. When you can buy a 15" or 17" PC laptop for under $500, and the MacBook Pros of this size range go for $1799 - $2799....most people simply can't justify spending this much for a laptop (and I am talking about most of the worldwide computer base)...in some countries of the world, that is more money than they would make in a YEAR....so....Apple must lower their price points if they seriously want to compete on the PC side of things in taking over more market share with the Mac.
This has always been the issue with Mac and the much-lower market share: Very high price-points that discourage the average user from investing in a Macintosh.
And, the Mac Mini doesn't count....I am talking about a full machine like the iMac or a flagship machine hitting the sub-$500 price point.
Having arrived from the past in your magical DeLorean with Christopher Lloyd, You've already been well deconstructed by many on every point. But the keys deserve another rep: The iPad IS that sub $500 device that's taken over the post-PC market - which MS has been laboring in for TEN YEARS (and what's their "all-important" market share there?) - and which, along with smart phones (where MS had more than a 10 year "head start") is where most casual users will increasingly be living. And you can get a 50 buck keyboard for it if ya needs one.
And why doesn't the Mac Mini count? Because it doesn't take over half of a desk?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettieblue
At work we can hardly get any help from Apple anymore for things like OD/AD integration. We used to be able to, but its like the whole Enterprise support team is simply gone. I look at my Xserve in the rack and wonder what I will do when it needs replacing…get a Mini server??
For better or worse for you, but better for Apple, they've staked their Enterprise and SMB efforts on the iPad and iPhone and are doing quite well in those areas, witness a major Airline rolling them out to all their pilots last week, and a prestigious med school giving every student one, etc., etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettieblue
I am not claiming anything. Apple makes less than 1/3 of its money on the Mac. Other vendors that basically sell only computers may copy them....so what????
The fact is in Q2 2011 85million Windows PC's were sold. 6% is great, but I look at those charts and 92% is a tad better. Those number have barely moved in 10-15 years. I never said anything about profit, market share only.
BS. The numbers are moving perceptibly both in the US and worldwide - and trends matter more than base numbers any day, not to mention these numbers don't include the new generations of iDevices, where both share and trend are Apple's friends.
Glad to know that you think that hamburger flippers can be Mac consumers. :roll eyes:
No I said they didn't need Windows skills.
Quote:
Leaving aside that silly example of your stupidity above:
1) Academia
2) Advertising and promotion
3) Senior execs of major corporations
4) Media
5) Entertainment (incl. TV, movies, radio....)
6) Millions of normal smart, well-off people in their day-to-day lives
7) Schools
8) Public libraries
.......
Do you want me to go on?
More to the point, what pathetic non-Apple industry do you work in?
Please do go on since you haven't hit on any valid industry segment yet that doesn't primarily use Windows. Oh, and my industry is graphic design and programming along with some video and photography thrown in and not even that industry is exclusively Mac. I was giving the other guy the benefit of the doubt since I do know a few average skill level graphic freelancers who don't know anything about Windows, but they are few and far between.
Comments
The fact is in Q2 2011 85million Windows PC's were sold. 6% is great, but I look at those charts and 92% is a tad better. Those number have barely moved in 10-15 years. I never said anything about profit, market share only.
Yes.. Market share is the only important factor and is the only measure of success. Just ask HP.
The fact is in Q2 2011 85million Windows PC's were sold. 6% is great, but I look at those charts and 92% is a tad better. Those number have barely moved in 10-15 years. I never said anything about profit, market share only.
And yet, profit is what shareholders ultimately care about.
Because of poor PC profitability, Acer dumped their CEO and HP is looking to spin off their Personal Systems Group.
Marketshare dominance is not a valid measure of success.
It's encouraging that over 50% of people are still using XP. That probably means they have old computers, and may be looking to upgrade at some point. The Win 7 people are those who have recently upgraded and already decided against a Mac.
Perhaps. But I've got old hardware and it's running Windows 7. That old hardware is a 2007 MacBook Pro. And it's running in a VM.
Duh! Since Mac OS doesn't run on iOS devices how could it?
ranReloaded knows that ... There was a statistical interpretation joke buried in there, son ... (sigh) ...
Then again, one has to be kind of a weenie to be making jokes built on statistical interpretation ... (double sigh) ...
And score one more for the list of people no one should take seriously due to beliefs.
Those places are well known to have high levels of counterfiting and piracy. That's not a belief. It's a well known fact.
I really don't see the correlation to Lion. Lion isn't really a selling point for switchers or first time buyers, which is pretty much the only way to increase your percentage of the installed base. Those types of buyers are just buying the Apple brand. They probably have not even heard about Lion. It is not advertised on TV. In my opinion Lion is actually quite screwed up, but hopefully that won't deter Mac sales growth.
What i am seeing are ipad purchasers moving to macs. The ipad and iphone are great lead ins.
Lion has some kinks but in some cases i would recommend an immediate upgrade to it.
"Who cares?" Apple does, for sure. In the first half of 2011, Greater China accounted for 10% of Apple sales, a growth of over 4x from the prior year.
What an ignorant little post. Your first, at that.
I was referencing Microsoft's 92% marketshare not Apple's.
Yeah, sure, MS has 92% marketshare but that number is inflated by piracy and counterfieting which is far more wide spread in China, India and Africa.
On the Apple side of things is much harder to inflate the numbers since unless you're running a hackintosh you'd have to own Apple hardware.
So when you take marketshare into account, Apple's 6% takes on far more significance when gauging revenue and trends since the cost of ownership for Mac is always going to be a greater expense than a $200+ PC with an easily pirated copy of Windows.
Come to Africa and Asia and see for yourself. I know from experience not ignorance.
I'm not saying everyone in Africa and Asia is a thief but we all know piracy is higher in those regions. We also know those regions are generally less profitable due to lower income levels. Thus Microsoft's 92% takes on less significance than Apple's 6%, a large portion of which is in more affluent nations like the US.
You're right about China. Massive potential for growth. Same goes for India and a few countries in Africa. But as I said, before, Apple's share is far more significant when you take into account the cost of ownership.
Next time I'll try to be a little less crass when making a comment.
Yeah, what difference could it make whether something is true or not?
Sources believe you worship Satan. They offered no explanation for this estimation.
That assumes that just because the guy didn't explain his reasoning that he didn't have any justification for the statement.
An executive from a major company doesn't make an inflammatory statement like that without SOME reason to believe that it's true. If he were merely making numbers up, it would open them up to massive lawsuits. So I conclude that while the exact number may or may not be correct, there is some legitimate evidence suggesting that actual sales of the Tab are extremely low.
I was referencing Microsoft's 92% marketshare not Apple's.
Yeah, sure, MS has 92% marketshare but that number is inflated by piracy and counterfieting which is far more wide spread in China, India and Africa.
That is not true. Piracy and counterfeiting would not inflate market share numbers. Market share is the percentage of units sold, not the percentage in use.
Those places are well known to have high levels of counterfiting and piracy. That's not a belief. It's a well known fact.
So does the U.S. You're being discriminatory against entire countries based on stereotypes. That's sick.
Duh! Since Mac OS doesn't run on iOS devices how could it?
Just sayin', seems to be the trend recently
That is not true. Piracy and counterfeiting would not inflate market share numbers. Market share is the percentage of units sold, not the percentage in use.
Are we reading the same article? The numbers are based USAGE not SALES.
So yes, in this case piracy and counterfeiting would inflate the numbers.
So does the U.S. You're being discriminatory against entire countries based on stereotypes. That's sick.
So if I said a higher percentage of people in China, India and Africa are poorer and undereducated than their counterparts in the West that would be a stereotype too, right?
Just because you don't like the facts doesn't make them wrong or discriminatory.
Clearly this chart published by the BSA is totally wrong.
Here's a breakdown by country. Notice all the poorer countries/regions are on top.
China #17, India #41 and the USA #107
Thanks for playing. Better luck next time!
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...re-piracy-rate
So if I said a higher percentage of people in China, India and Africa are poorer and undereducated than their counterparts in the West that would be a stereotype too, right?
Except this:
Piracy and counterfeiting would not inflate market share numbers. Market share is the percentage of units sold, not the percentage in use.
Oh, good, you've already written my response.
Thanks for playing. Better luck next time!
Except this:
Oh, good, you've already written my response.
Deaf, dumb and blind is no way to go through life.
The numbers quoted in the article we're discussing are based on USGAE not SALES.
Pirated copies of Windows would be included.
Rinse and Repeat... Thanks for playing. Better luck next time!
On the last question. I've known many switchers that say that for a few months as they feel lost at sea for a while. Then, in my experience, they start to love their Mac. I've never known one switch back by choice.
I know one lady who didn't wast to learn to use the OS. She gave the Mac to her daughter and bought another Winbox. It's is the shop again. Her daughter is still happy.
I know one lady who didn't wast to learn to use the OS. She gave the Mac to her daughter and bought another Winbox. It's is the shop again. Her daughter is still happy.
Yes, simplicity and easy of use can be confusing after being exposed to Windows.
"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said a faster horse." - Henry Ford
No doubt. With only 92% of the market they should be in a total panic.
Yep, when the opposite 90%+ figure is Apple's share of the $1000+ PC market, and Apple's over double digits in the US (which hasn't happened in a Loooong ass time). Premium buyers are trend-setters, and they're also the bigger consumers of 3rd party apps, accessories, etc. And most people want to be where the trendies are, not stuck in a trailer park with a plastic Dell.
Because taking 1/3 of the world's PC profits means they are a failure.
I wouldn't mind failing that way, thank you.
On the last question. I've known many switchers that say that for a few months as they feel lost at sea for a while. Then, in my experience, they start to love their Mac. I've never known one switch back by choice.
Frankly, now that I know both, and spend most of my time in apps common to both (Word, Photoshop, Chrome, iTunes), I'm results-oriented and both meet my needs while working. So no religious fervor for me there. I do like the look and feel of the UI much better (in general, not in every nuance), but my brain quit thinking about that years ago. When I sit down, I just wanna get my shit DONE.
I prefer Mac mostly because a) I have to futz with it less, b) replace (nicer) hardware less often and c) because the trackpad experience is immeasurably better. However with the advent of Lion (5 steps forward, 3 back), iCloud and iOS 5, the (more) complete integration of devices will probably stick me deeper into the Mac ecosystem.
The Mac market share will NEVER pick up unless Apple can sell a fully functional Mac OS X desktop or laptop for under $500, period....they would have to hit the low price points to be able to compete on a series "takeover market-share" level with the PC market. When you can buy a 15" or 17" PC laptop for under $500, and the MacBook Pros of this size range go for $1799 - $2799....most people simply can't justify spending this much for a laptop (and I am talking about most of the worldwide computer base)...in some countries of the world, that is more money than they would make in a YEAR....so....Apple must lower their price points if they seriously want to compete on the PC side of things in taking over more market share with the Mac.
This has always been the issue with Mac and the much-lower market share: Very high price-points that discourage the average user from investing in a Macintosh.
And, the Mac Mini doesn't count....I am talking about a full machine like the iMac or a flagship machine hitting the sub-$500 price point.
Having arrived from the past in your magical DeLorean with Christopher Lloyd, You've already been well deconstructed by many on every point. But the keys deserve another rep: The iPad IS that sub $500 device that's taken over the post-PC market - which MS has been laboring in for TEN YEARS (and what's their "all-important" market share there?) - and which, along with smart phones (where MS had more than a 10 year "head start") is where most casual users will increasingly be living. And you can get a 50 buck keyboard for it if ya needs one.
And why doesn't the Mac Mini count? Because it doesn't take over half of a desk?
At work we can hardly get any help from Apple anymore for things like OD/AD integration. We used to be able to, but its like the whole Enterprise support team is simply gone. I look at my Xserve in the rack and wonder what I will do when it needs replacing…get a Mini server??
For better or worse for you, but better for Apple, they've staked their Enterprise and SMB efforts on the iPad and iPhone and are doing quite well in those areas, witness a major Airline rolling them out to all their pilots last week, and a prestigious med school giving every student one, etc., etc.
I am not claiming anything. Apple makes less than 1/3 of its money on the Mac. Other vendors that basically sell only computers may copy them....so what????
The fact is in Q2 2011 85million Windows PC's were sold. 6% is great, but I look at those charts and 92% is a tad better. Those number have barely moved in 10-15 years. I never said anything about profit, market share only.
BS. The numbers are moving perceptibly both in the US and worldwide - and trends matter more than base numbers any day, not to mention these numbers don't include the new generations of iDevices, where both share and trend are Apple's friends.
Glad to know that you think that hamburger flippers can be Mac consumers. :roll eyes:
No I said they didn't need Windows skills.
Leaving aside that silly example of your stupidity above:
1) Academia
2) Advertising and promotion
3) Senior execs of major corporations
4) Media
5) Entertainment (incl. TV, movies, radio....)
6) Millions of normal smart, well-off people in their day-to-day lives
7) Schools
8) Public libraries
.......
Do you want me to go on?
More to the point, what pathetic non-Apple industry do you work in?
Please do go on since you haven't hit on any valid industry segment yet that doesn't primarily use Windows. Oh, and my industry is graphic design and programming along with some video and photography thrown in and not even that industry is exclusively Mac. I was giving the other guy the benefit of the doubt since I do know a few average skill level graphic freelancers who don't know anything about Windows, but they are few and far between.