Amazon seems to be putting great stock in its Cloud services. So the decision to NOT have 3G on the Fire strikes me as somewhat curious. Or at least one that will limit the Fire's potential success to markets where free WiFi is pervasive.
Also interesting is the marketing photo showing the Fire being used in Portarit mode by a quite young child. The cynic in me said that they were not playing up the simplicity of use ("even a child can use it") , but down playing the 7" screen size.
Personally, at this moment in time, I find the Apple ecosystem much more compelling. iOS, Airplay, iTunes all works for me. But like I said, that's just me.
There is one thing that I'm liking about this Amazon mini tablet. It'll make Fandroids look pretty stupid (as if they already don't look like retards), because they've been whining for ages about Apple being closed for so long now and along comes an Android tablet which is heavily skinned by Amazon and features a walled garden and it's probably going to sell more than all of the other Android tablets combined!
it wasn't an argument; it was a statement that had absolutely nothing to do with my initial comment.
Well, the line wasn't exactly the whole argument as I alluded to earlier. I meant it to be analogous, the point was that less functional device does compete with more functional hardware. Depends on what 'market' you're trying to define.
To get back to your original point, you could you not expect the Kindle Fire to be compared to the iPad? How does the iPad market/target audience differ from that of the Kindle Fire?
I've said it before, and I will say it again; the best yardstick for potential success of a product on here is the panic it induces in the general posting populace. It would appear Amazon have a huge hit on their hands.
The "doesn't do as much" as the iPad argument holds no water, when 95% of users don't use half of the features the iPad uses. It does nearly everything the iPad does, just as well as the iPad, that's the point. Think early iphone. It didn't do what the Nokias of the day did, but it did enough of it really well that no-one cared. And why in God's name would I buy a recon iPad 1 when I can buy a dual core more modern tablet for less money?
A parent buying tablets for their children this Xmas, so they can read/watch films/surf the web - 97% of what people use the iPad or ANY tablet for - will the be thinking 4 X $499 or 4 X $199???
And why in God's name would I buy a recon iPad 1 when I can buy a dual core more modern tablet for less money?
You ask that question because you're clearly ignorant as to the very big differences between an iPad and the Amazon mini tablet. The Amazon tablet will probably sell ok compared to other previous Android tablet failures and flops which came before it, but it is not in the same league or even comparable to an iPad.
(1) It's fucking tiny, less than half the screen area of an iPad.
(2) No microphone, no Skype, no calls, no communication, no voice commands etc.
(3) Shorter battery life.
(4) No real multitouch, only dual touch. This one is pretty important in my view.
(5) Half the internal storage of even the lowest spec iPad.
(6) iOS > Amazon's skinned Android
(7) It's strictly a media consumption device. The iPad is that and more as it's also a productivity device being used and adopted by all sorts of businesses and enterprise and quite a few productivity apps do exist for the iPad in all different kinds of fields and areas.
(8) 3:4 aspect ratio > 16:9 aspect ratio for tablets. 16:9 is better for movies, it's worse for everything else, including reading books, surfing, games etc.
If you want to buy an Amazon Kindle Fire, then go right ahead, nobody's stopping you. There is a certain market for such a tablet, but even an iPad 1 > Kindle Fire, don't kid yourself.
Personally, I think it's a tad disingenuous for Amazon to write all that ad copy of
"do this ...."/"stream that ...."/"download the other thing ...." but have ZERO mention of
1] WiFi or 3G connectivity [In all the images I've seen, there's only the WiFi logo in the upper right corner] or 2] Battery life ....
Add to that no mic or camera plus people who'll buy into this immediately because they're so inexpensive and you've got a disaster in the making when, according to reports, in just a matter of months, KindleFire 2 comes out with a mic and a 2-way camera and 3G and a longlasting battery.
That said, I still think Amazon's got a monster hit on it's hands, as people look at this as something that,
for the price of just 1 iPad, they can get for themselves and give one to the kids for ganes, coloringbooks & Dora The Explorer.
I've said it before, and I will say it again; the best yardstick for potential success of a product on here is the panic it induces in the general posting populace. It would appear Amazon have a huge hit on their hands.
The only 'panic' here is in the posts of Amazoids and possibly fandroids who are desperate for something (anything) that can put Apple in its place! Fine - no one cares! Post your android market share statistics, price point arguments, form factor arguments and 'echo-system' arguments. We've read them all and the pervading theme is simply a tirade against the iPad. Gone are the arguments about the iPad not being a computer and about Apple's walled garden.
Consider this - where has Apple met real competition in its relentless climb? Well, not in the music player and tablet markets. It has met stiff competition in the mobile phone and computer markets. The competitors in this latter segment are established and highly efficient hardware manufacturers. Apple too is an established and highly efficient hardware manufacturer that also controls every aspect of its operating system. Amazon is not and does not. They are going to release a 7" tablet because they simply cannot compete against Apple's offering. The Fire has less than half the display area of the iPad (at a slightly higher resolution) and yet:
- is over two-thirds the weight of an iPad (413g vs 609g).
- is nearly 80% of the length of an iPad (190mm vs 241.2mm).
- is 130% of the thickness of an iPad (11.4mm vs 8.8mm but who cares right?)
- offers 8 hours of reading with WiFi off, against 10 hours on the web with the iPad.
I believe too that the 7" screen will prove frustratingly small but in the end, who cares? The regulars on AI don't! We could not care less!
Plus its small enough so you can take it with you where ever. Inside a hand bag, even. Also, you can check out books from the local public library with the Kindle Fire.
I don't take my nook color every where any more than I take the iPad.
Until your library buys kindle e-books you can't. Many or most will via overdrive but Amazon's refusal to support epub sucks.
The effing ignorance of some people is amazing. This product will impact iPad sales with out a doubt.
95% of iPad users are very simplistic users, browse the web, email and 10-20 apps. The iPad is at least $499.
With this Kindle Fire you can do the same thing basically. If the app is already written for andriod it will run on this. Yes it has fewer apps, no camera, smaller screen etc. For some people that will be a show stopper, however WAY MORE people will jump at this device because it SAVES you at least $300!!!
95% of iPad users buy the iPad because it is an iPad.
There are already cheaper tablets that do basically the same thing, if people wanted those, they would buy them. The only people that will buy these Amazon tablets are those people looking to upgrade from their Kindle readers or those looking to switch away from their B&N Nooks.
Why would you relegate yourself to a single core AND pay $100 more when you can have a dual core processor, all the music, apps, movies + others all on a free cloud basis system. All for $199?
Plus its small enough so you can take it with you where ever. Inside a hand bag, even. Also, you can check out books from the local public library with the Kindle Fire.
Good try.
Because the iPad is a more capable device, which is why people are buying them up in many, many, many more numbers than all other tablets combined.
Good try.
And if you're already carrying a hand bag, then it wouldn't take much more to carry a slightly bigger bag to carry an iPad in. Either way, you're still carrying something.
Good try.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi
I'm surprised none of you mention its a direct copy of the iPad.
Rounded corners, flat even borders all around, with a touch screen interface.
What gives?
Is this a double standard?
Hardly a direct copy. Perhaps you should actually read Apple's trade dress application before looking stupid on these message boards. And while you're at it, you should look up what "double standard" actually means.
(1) It's fucking tiny, less than half the screen area of an iPad.
For movie content it's not much smaller and it's a 1024x600 IPS display. That's not bad. Web surfing is slightly degraded but its a usable aspect ratio for a tablet that also does portrait (vs a 1024x600 netbook that couldn't).
Quote:
(2) No microphone, no Skype, no calls, no communication, no voice commands etc.
Seems a like a reasonable trade. I can get a Kindle Fire and a iPod Touch for the price of an iPad. If I don't do much content creation beyond email this is a reasonable trade for skype.
Quote:
(3) Shorter battery life.
7-8 hours is reasonable. About the same as the iPod Touch.
Quote:
(4) No real multitouch, only dual touch. This one is pretty important in my view.
This is the only killer and only for some games.
Quote:
(5) Half the internal storage of even the lowest spec iPad.
Same as the $28 more expensive iPod Touch.
Quote:
(6) iOS > Amazon's skinned Android
Depends on the skinning. It seems extensive.
Quote:
(7) It's strictly a media consumption device. The iPad is that and more as it's also a productivity device being used and adopted by all sorts of businesses and enterprise and quite a few productivity apps do exist for the iPad in all different kinds of fields and areas.
Sure, so what? A large segment of the consumer market (Amazon's demographic) are just media consumers. Amazon could make 0 enterprise sales and be quite happy.
Quote:
(8) 3:4 aspect ratio > 16:9 aspect ratio for tablets. 16:9 is better for movies, it's worse for everything else, including reading books, surfing, games etc.
It's actually a 10:6 aspect ratio.
Quote:
If you want to buy an Amazon Kindle Fire, then go right ahead, nobody's stopping you. There is a certain market for such a tablet, but even an iPad 1 > Kindle Fire, don't kid yourself.
I would hope that an iPad 1 > Kindle Fire given it's more expensive. Even the refurb closeout was $100 more.
Add to that no mic or camera plus people who'll buy into this immediately because they're so inexpensive and you've got a disaster in the making
People said exactly the same thing about the iPad 1. No camera! $500 is so inexpensive!
But no disaster, at least, none that I heard about. Leaving out basic features is a typical Apple method of selling two similar products to the same customer. I'm surprised that you would think it to be a disaster in the making.
Comments
I don't make straw men, but feel free to take out a line of the argument and attacking it.
it wasn't an argument; it was a statement that had absolutely nothing to do with my initial comment.
I suspect even the most faithful of fans is growing tired of the daily beat of patent infringement claims, design lawsuits and general saber-rattling.
Honestly it's tiresome. Nobody is going to "win" and everyone's reputation ends up damaged in some way.
Actually, most of us are just tired of the daily patented Apple bashing trolls. STFU.
This.
Also interesting is the marketing photo showing the Fire being used in Portarit mode by a quite young child. The cynic in me said that they were not playing up the simplicity of use ("even a child can use it") , but down playing the 7" screen size.
Personally, at this moment in time, I find the Apple ecosystem much more compelling. iOS, Airplay, iTunes all works for me. But like I said, that's just me.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/28/i...ys-stay-tuned/
the article alludes to a larger form factor of the Kindle Fire; no more, no less.
it wasn't an argument; it was a statement that had absolutely nothing to do with my initial comment.
Well, the line wasn't exactly the whole argument as I alluded to earlier. I meant it to be analogous, the point was that less functional device does compete with more functional hardware. Depends on what 'market' you're trying to define.
To get back to your original point, you could you not expect the Kindle Fire to be compared to the iPad? How does the iPad market/target audience differ from that of the Kindle Fire?
The "doesn't do as much" as the iPad argument holds no water, when 95% of users don't use half of the features the iPad uses. It does nearly everything the iPad does, just as well as the iPad, that's the point. Think early iphone. It didn't do what the Nokias of the day did, but it did enough of it really well that no-one cared. And why in God's name would I buy a recon iPad 1 when I can buy a dual core more modern tablet for less money?
A parent buying tablets for their children this Xmas, so they can read/watch films/surf the web - 97% of what people use the iPad or ANY tablet for - will the be thinking 4 X $499 or 4 X $199???
And why in God's name would I buy a recon iPad 1 when I can buy a dual core more modern tablet for less money?
You ask that question because you're clearly ignorant as to the very big differences between an iPad and the Amazon mini tablet. The Amazon tablet will probably sell ok compared to other previous Android tablet failures and flops which came before it, but it is not in the same league or even comparable to an iPad.
(1) It's fucking tiny, less than half the screen area of an iPad.
(2) No microphone, no Skype, no calls, no communication, no voice commands etc.
(3) Shorter battery life.
(4) No real multitouch, only dual touch. This one is pretty important in my view.
(5) Half the internal storage of even the lowest spec iPad.
(6) iOS > Amazon's skinned Android
(7) It's strictly a media consumption device. The iPad is that and more as it's also a productivity device being used and adopted by all sorts of businesses and enterprise and quite a few productivity apps do exist for the iPad in all different kinds of fields and areas.
(8) 3:4 aspect ratio > 16:9 aspect ratio for tablets. 16:9 is better for movies, it's worse for everything else, including reading books, surfing, games etc.
If you want to buy an Amazon Kindle Fire, then go right ahead, nobody's stopping you. There is a certain market for such a tablet, but even an iPad 1 > Kindle Fire, don't kid yourself.
Personally, I think it's a tad disingenuous for Amazon to write all that ad copy of
"do this ...."/"stream that ...."/"download the other thing ...." but have ZERO mention of
1] WiFi or 3G connectivity [In all the images I've seen, there's only the WiFi logo in the upper right corner] or 2] Battery life ....
Add to that no mic or camera plus people who'll buy into this immediately because they're so inexpensive and you've got a disaster in the making when, according to reports, in just a matter of months, KindleFire 2 comes out with a mic and a 2-way camera and 3G and a longlasting battery.
That said, I still think Amazon's got a monster hit on it's hands, as people look at this as something that,
for the price of just 1 iPad, they can get for themselves and give one to the kids for ganes, coloringbooks & Dora The Explorer.
I've said it before, and I will say it again; the best yardstick for potential success of a product on here is the panic it induces in the general posting populace. It would appear Amazon have a huge hit on their hands.
The only 'panic' here is in the posts of Amazoids and possibly fandroids who are desperate for something (anything) that can put Apple in its place! Fine - no one cares! Post your android market share statistics, price point arguments, form factor arguments and 'echo-system' arguments. We've read them all
Consider this - where has Apple met real competition in its relentless climb? Well, not in the music player and tablet markets. It has met stiff competition in the mobile phone and computer markets. The competitors in this latter segment are established and highly efficient hardware manufacturers. Apple too is an established and highly efficient hardware manufacturer that also controls every aspect of its operating system. Amazon is not and does not. They are going to release a 7" tablet because they simply cannot compete against Apple's offering. The Fire has less than half the display area of the iPad (at a slightly higher resolution) and yet:
- is over two-thirds the weight of an iPad (413g vs 609g).
- is nearly 80% of the length of an iPad (190mm vs 241.2mm).
- is 130% of the thickness of an iPad (11.4mm vs 8.8mm
- offers 8 hours of reading with WiFi off, against 10 hours on the web with the iPad.
I believe too that the 7" screen will prove frustratingly small but in the end, who cares? The regulars on AI don't! We could not care less!
Kindle Fire may force Android tablet makers to cut prices
* Kindle Fire set to disrupt other Android tablet sales-analysts
* Non-iPad tablet makers under pressure to cut prices
* Samsung may lose No.2 tablet position in 2012-analysts
By Miyoung Kim
SEOUL, Sept 29 (Reuters) - Asian technology companies came
under pressure on Thursday to slash prices of their tablet
computers after Amazon.com <AMZN.O> launched its Kindle Fire at
a mass market-friendly $199.
From Samsung Electronics <005930.KS> to Sony Corp <6758.T>,
major Asian tablet makers have ambitious plans to take on Apple
<AAPL.O>, whose iPad is the gold standard in the booming market.
With their me-too type of products priced almost at the same
level as the iPad's starting price of $499, none of them have
however been able to gain any significant market share from
Apple.
So far, Samsung has been seen as the most credible
challenger to the iPad and some analysts suggest it could lose
its No. 2 position to the eagerly anticipated Fire.
The South Korean company's tablet marketing campaign has
also stumbled in recent months due to Apple's legal attempts to
ban Samsung's tablet sales in Australia, the United States and
Germany, over patent infringement, among other claims.
The Kindle Fire, while lacking many of the high-tech bells
and whistles common on tablets from cameras to 3G wireless
connection, may sound the death knell for a raft of devices
based on Google Inc's <GOOG.O> Android operating system.
"The pricing is critical to gain traction in the tablet
market... Rival manufacturers have failed to attract consumers
as they have matched the iPad's price point without matching its
content offering," said Adam Leach, an analyst at research firm
Ovum.
"Amazon's retail-based business model allows the company to
subsidize the device on the premise that consumers will buy more
from Amazon, be that physical goods or its digital content."
Samsung's Galaxy Tab, Sony's S tablet, Motorola's <MMI.N>
Zoom and many others from Acer Inc <2353.TW> and Asustek
Computer Inc <2357.TW> all run on Android, which Amazon's Fire
also uses and combines with its online store.
*
*
*
By pricing the Fire at less than half the iPad -- yet
stripping out costlier components and features -- the Internet
retailer hopes to get the device into millions of consumers'
hands and then into Amazon books, movies, music and other
content.
TOUGH FOR SAMSUNG
Samsung's new tablet Galaxy 10.1 is priced roughly the same
as the iPad. Even at that price, a slim profit margin of around
5 percent makes it difficult for Samsung to cut prices sharply,
analysts say.
Worldwide tablet shipments will more than triple to 60
million units this year and surge to 275.3 million units by
2015, research firm IHS iSuppli forecasts.
Apple dominates the North American tablet market, with 80
percent of the 7.5 million units shipped during the second
quarter of 2011, Strategy Analytics says.
Analysts had expected Amazon's tablet to be priced around
$250, roughly half the price of Apple's iPad, which starts at
$499.
Sony vowed in January to become the world's No. 2 tablet
maker -- behind Apple -- by 2012 and Sony executives have since
stuck to that ambitious claim.
"We expect the Amazon tablet to... put pressure on the other
non-iPad competitors as they are unlikely to be able to compete
on price and value," UBS analysts said in a note.
"At the $199, we believe Amazon's tablet has the potential
to be disruptive to the market and, in particular, the non-iPad
market...Other tablet vendors will find it difficult to match
Amazon's price point."
HP's firesale of its TouchPad tablet at $99 just six weeks
after its launch created strong demand for its soon-to-be-killed
product, a sign of just how critical prices are in the sector.
Plus its small enough so you can take it with you where ever. Inside a hand bag, even. Also, you can check out books from the local public library with the Kindle Fire.
I don't take my nook color every where any more than I take the iPad.
Until your library buys kindle e-books you can't. Many or most will via overdrive but Amazon's refusal to support epub sucks.
The effing ignorance of some people is amazing. This product will impact iPad sales with out a doubt.
95% of iPad users are very simplistic users, browse the web, email and 10-20 apps. The iPad is at least $499.
With this Kindle Fire you can do the same thing basically. If the app is already written for andriod it will run on this. Yes it has fewer apps, no camera, smaller screen etc. For some people that will be a show stopper, however WAY MORE people will jump at this device because it SAVES you at least $300!!!
95% of iPad users buy the iPad because it is an iPad.
There are already cheaper tablets that do basically the same thing, if people wanted those, they would buy them. The only people that will buy these Amazon tablets are those people looking to upgrade from their Kindle readers or those looking to switch away from their B&N Nooks.
Why would you relegate yourself to a single core AND pay $100 more when you can have a dual core processor, all the music, apps, movies + others all on a free cloud basis system. All for $199?
Plus its small enough so you can take it with you where ever. Inside a hand bag, even. Also, you can check out books from the local public library with the Kindle Fire.
Good try.
Because the iPad is a more capable device, which is why people are buying them up in many, many, many more numbers than all other tablets combined.
Good try.
And if you're already carrying a hand bag, then it wouldn't take much more to carry a slightly bigger bag to carry an iPad in. Either way, you're still carrying something.
Good try.
I'm surprised none of you mention its a direct copy of the iPad.
Rounded corners, flat even borders all around, with a touch screen interface.
What gives?
Is this a double standard?
Hardly a direct copy. Perhaps you should actually read Apple's trade dress application before looking stupid on these message boards. And while you're at it, you should look up what "double standard" actually means.
Good try.
(1) It's fucking tiny, less than half the screen area of an iPad.
For movie content it's not much smaller and it's a 1024x600 IPS display. That's not bad. Web surfing is slightly degraded but its a usable aspect ratio for a tablet that also does portrait (vs a 1024x600 netbook that couldn't).
(2) No microphone, no Skype, no calls, no communication, no voice commands etc.
Seems a like a reasonable trade. I can get a Kindle Fire and a iPod Touch for the price of an iPad. If I don't do much content creation beyond email this is a reasonable trade for skype.
(3) Shorter battery life.
7-8 hours is reasonable. About the same as the iPod Touch.
(4) No real multitouch, only dual touch. This one is pretty important in my view.
This is the only killer and only for some games.
(5) Half the internal storage of even the lowest spec iPad.
Same as the $28 more expensive iPod Touch.
(6) iOS > Amazon's skinned Android
Depends on the skinning. It seems extensive.
(7) It's strictly a media consumption device. The iPad is that and more as it's also a productivity device being used and adopted by all sorts of businesses and enterprise and quite a few productivity apps do exist for the iPad in all different kinds of fields and areas.
Sure, so what? A large segment of the consumer market (Amazon's demographic) are just media consumers. Amazon could make 0 enterprise sales and be quite happy.
(8) 3:4 aspect ratio > 16:9 aspect ratio for tablets. 16:9 is better for movies, it's worse for everything else, including reading books, surfing, games etc.
It's actually a 10:6 aspect ratio.
If you want to buy an Amazon Kindle Fire, then go right ahead, nobody's stopping you. There is a certain market for such a tablet, but even an iPad 1 > Kindle Fire, don't kid yourself.
I would hope that an iPad 1 > Kindle Fire given it's more expensive. Even the refurb closeout was $100 more.
Here's an interesting take (emphasis mine):
Kindle Fire may force Android tablet makers to cut prices
* Kindle Fire set to disrupt other Android tablet sales-analysts
* Non-iPad tablet makers under pressure to cut prices
* Samsung may lose No.2 tablet position in 2012-analysts
By Miyoung Kim
SEOUL, Sept 29 (Reuters) - Asian technology companies came
under pressure on Thursday to slash prices of their tablet
computers after Amazon.com <AMZN.O> launched its Kindle Fire at
a mass market-friendly $199.
From Samsung Electronics <005930.KS> to Sony Corp <6758.T>,
major Asian tablet makers have ambitious plans to take on Apple
<AAPL.O>, whose iPad is the gold standard in the booming market.
With their me-too type of products priced almost at the same
level as the iPad's starting price of $499, none of them have
however been able to gain any significant market share from
Apple.
So far, Samsung has been seen as the most credible
challenger to the iPad and some analysts suggest it could lose
its No. 2 position to the eagerly anticipated Fire.
The way they think the Fire is going to damage the market for Android tablets, this Kim Miyoung is obviously an apple fanboi, or fangrrl.
And an iPad is small enough to take anywhere, even if it's not as small as the Fire.
The same could be said about a 17 inch desktop replacement notebook. Or a suitcase.
There is one thing that I'm liking about this Amazon mini tablet. It'll make Fandroids look pretty stupid
Very very strange POV.
Add to that no mic or camera plus people who'll buy into this immediately because they're so inexpensive and you've got a disaster in the making
People said exactly the same thing about the iPad 1. No camera! $500 is so inexpensive!
But no disaster, at least, none that I heard about. Leaving out basic features is a typical Apple method of selling two similar products to the same customer. I'm surprised that you would think it to be a disaster in the making.