I call them ANALysts myself too sometimes, but you gotta admit, even a broken clock is correct twice a day, and in this case, the analyst happens to be right!
I'm not claiming that the Kindle Fire is going to flop, far from it. I'm sure that there are plenty of poor people around, especially in this economy, who are going to be attracted to such a device. But, this Amazon mini Android tablet won't have any effect on iPads.
"I'm sure that there are plenty of poor people around"
Ummm yeah ok. Is this www.kindleinsider.com ? Or are you iTard's just scared that the fire is goign to take sales away from your worshiped toy?
I don't see anybody here who is afraid of the Amazon mini tablet. And why would they be? This is an Apple site and many people here already own the far superior iPad. Why would a much lesser tablet that does much less impress anybody here? Is anybody supposed to be enchanted by the cheap price? This is not a welfare office, again, it's an Apple site where many people own plenty of Apple gear.
If anybody should be worried about the Kindle Fire, it's other Android tablet makers who are also competing in the low-end market for cheap tablets.
It will be interesting to see how Google responds. They have all the same kind of Content. Now that they have Motorola maybe we will see a $199 competitor built by Motorola.
Let them go at it I say. It would be entertaining.
Google lacks the echo system.
Tablet success is the right combination of....
Devic + echo system + ease of use + Price.
Depening upon which on of those you care about, say price, will make you choose one over the other.
The kindle fire is better than all of the Google based tablets because it is super easy to use and it is backed by a echo system rivaled only by Apple.
If anybody should be worried about the Kindle Fire, it's other Android tablet makers who are also competing in the low-end market for cheap tablets.
You can say that again. A closed, proprietary version of Android has (as expected) just made it nearly impossible for any other vendor using Android to make any real headway in the tablet market.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettieblue
Google lacks the echo system.
If you want to be taken seriously you could start by learning to properly read and write. First graders know the term is ecosystem.
I don't see anybody here who is afraid of the Amazon mini tablet. And why would they be? This is an Apple site and many people here already own the far superior iPad. Why would a much lesser tablet that does much less impress anybody here? Is anybody supposed to be enchanted by the cheap price? This is not a welfare office, again, it's an Apple site where many people own plenty of Apple gear.
If anybody should be worried about the Kindle Fire, it's other Android tablet makers who are also competing in the low-end market for cheap tablets.
+1. Well said. Its give me hope to find that the largest company in the world has found a way to be successful by not making the cheapest product possible, but a high quality product that people are willing to see value and pay premium money for during an economically stressed period in our history. I hope that one day soon, other companies will look back on Apple's success and try to figure out how Apple got to be #1 without competing purely on price and will begin to compete in the same way. By standing out via innovation instead of standing toe to toe purely on price and tiny margins. Cheap is a road to ruin; ask HP and the netbook businesses.
I have hope. Think about where Apple will be if the economy recovers, I can only think people will have more confidence to buy premium product instead of the cheapest option and the company should theoretically grow even faster.
So are we worked about cheap products? This is nothing new. It has yet to prevent Apple from growing and succeeding against cheap alternatives. (iPod, iPhone, iPad). Why would they be concerned? They know they have a winning formula to win against cheap competitors.
The Kindle Fire is a very good ebook reader, not an iPad competitor.
[ ]
The Fire will take market share from other Android tablets, but mostly the Nook. I would consider it as an ebook reader for my kids to use while I use an iPad, but then again I'd probably go for the lower price e-ink based Kindle. I don't see a Fire as a replacement or direct competitor to the iPad. The Fire occupies an odd market segment between e-ink kindles and full featured tablets.
I suspect all the new Kindles will do well in the marketplace as ereaders, as the iPad dominates the post-PC market.
I don't quite get the point of the Fire. The e-ink Kindles are great with a very long battery life. That is what you want for an e-reader. Neither the iPad nor the any other tablet I have seen is a great e-book reader. Mind you the iPad is a pretty good textbook reader.
I could see the Fire being useful for textbooks, but that world seems very fragmented.
There doesn't seem to be an easy way to get video content onto an HDTV or is there? That would make it less appealing for many people.
The $200 price is good. Just not sure what the point is.
Apple has the iPad2 advancing quite nicely. The 7" tablet is not really that mobile, any more than a 10" one. AirPlay will get iPad stuff onto a TV via an ATV2 in a seamless way. That is a pretty big deal.
I like the Kindles although the touchscreen may lower the contrast ( extra layer like the Sony units). On the other hand getting grid of the keyboard is probably a good thing. They should do well. Nice devices.
The whole Android world seems confusing. Can't find one interesting tablet in there. The HP TouchPad is an interesting tablet. WebOS is great. They should never have priced it so high and they should not have given up so quickly. The only interesting possibilities now, other than Apple, in the tablet field would have to come from Microsoft with Windows 8. They have been working on tablets a long time and have some interesting ideas.
In short I see the Fire and the rest of the Andoid things as passing ships. The iPad and Microsoft tablets will be the only interesting ones a year from now.
I don't think you can get anymore serious than a textbook, which for the sciences tend to be filled with colour graphics. I recently bought a colour Kindle textbook that displays beautifully on my iPad and Mac. It would significantly weaken the experience to degrade the textbook to black and white.
I do agree with you on this. Textbooks should find homes on colour tablets. Too bad the publishing world is so intent on making it difficult. Magazines, newspapers and textbooks. Otherwise, e-ink is infinitely better.
I don't quite get the point of the Fire. The e-ink Kindles are great with a very long battery life. That is what you want for an e-reader. Neither the iPad nor the any other tablet I have seen is a great e-book reader. Mind you the iPad is a pretty good textbook reader.
I could see the Fire being useful for textbooks, but that world seems very fragmented.
There doesn't seem to be an easy way to get video content onto an HDTV or is there? That would make it less appealing for many people.
The $200 price is good. Just not sure what the point is.
Apple has the iPad2 advancing quite nicely. The 7" tablet is not really that mobile, any more than a 10" one. AirPlay will get iPad stuff onto a TV via an ATV2 in a seamless way. That is a pretty big deal.
I like the Kindles although the touchscreen may lower the contrast ( extra layer like the Sony units). On the other hand getting grid of the keyboard is probably a good thing. They should do well. Nice devices.
The whole Android world seems confusing. Can't find one interesting tablet in there. The HP TouchPad is an interesting tablet. WebOS is great. They should never have priced it so high and they should not have given up so quickly. The only interesting possibilities now, other than Apple, in the tablet field would have to come from Microsoft with Windows 8. They have been working on tablets a long time and have some interesting ideas.
In short I see the Fire and the rest of the Andoid things as passing ships. The iPad and Microsoft tablets will be the only interesting ones a year from now.
phiilp
Wow.. I thought this guy is my twin! He gets it! We are completely aligned. Then you started talking about hope for the MS tablet and you wrecked it for me.
I just dont see the genius of Microsoft here. The split thumbs keyboard was good, I recognized that instantly when I first saw it and posted it here. I said in a post in AppleInsider forum.. this is good.. the iPad should adapt this.. then a few weeks later iOS5 had it.. bada bang.. bravo.
The other stuff about running x86 desktop apps on a tablet. I dont get, how this is different then what they have attempted before. Metro HTML5 based UI? I dont know. Still dont know why it would be better then simply a good native tablet UI. Guess I need to learn more about it.
Considering that Amazon never reveals how many Kindles it sells, we may never know if it's a blockbuster or a dud.
The Kindle as a platform should either be doing reasonably well or Bezos is very deluded to keep going like this. This batch is the fourth generation of Kindle devices, if it's not showing results, I would hope he would shut it down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL
Amazon need to sell around 2 million units a year to take second spot. If that isn't a lock then I don't know what is.
I wonder how anyone would know, as most of them are sold on their own store, so it wouldn't show up on such a list.
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova
I find that whenever someone is trying to be manipulative, they always open with a statement that try to assert that they are open minded, however it usually become obvious to their true intend a few minutes later when their follow on dialog is completely unaligned with the opening statement.
This mostly comes from politicians and management.
Reasons like this are why I ignore the "I like ____, but ____" and similar opening lines. There's no way to be sure if someone is a real owner or a real user, it usually doesn't matter anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][
I am in the US and I believe that tax should not be charged as long as the business is not physically located in the same state that somebody resides in. Each state has different rules in place about that. I use every legal loophole possible to avoid giving any more tax money to the corruptocrats than I must.
If you're truly concerned with legality, make sure you check that with an accountant, if you haven't done so already. A lot of states do require a use tax for items which you bought from out of state. Use tax is very poorly enforced, but I'm pretty sure dodging it isn't legal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccherry
New tech is funded by the sale of previous tech. In order for Amazon to evolve their "fire" their stuffy azz consumers will have to be progressive enough to always buy new Kindles all the time. I don't see that happening. Grandpa and grandma ain't playing that game. They aren't Android fanboys. That is just my two cents.
I don't think the same customers buying the newest product is the only reason to keep the product updated. Another reason is to not get caught left behind by competitors, you can't attract new customers by having outdated hardware. Technology improves every year, and the market changes over time too, so it's justifiable for them to keep roughly annual updates to keep up in the market, even if a typical customer might only replace hardware every three or four years.
I wonder how anyone would know, as most of them are sold on their own store, so it wouldn't show up on such a list.
you have a point. However, it still may be possible to analyze this. As you probably know Kindle are sold at some other local retail stores nationwdie. I think some ANALists could get a sense how well they are selling by asking staff at places like Target and take surveys of people in airports.
Retail survey:
People are hesitant switching from printed books to eInk until they see it from themselves. To do this best, you go to B&N or a store demoing Kindle. I have personally never had any problems with availability at retail stores. I have purchased 3 Kindles now. . So something tells me supply is able to keep up with demand. The fact that with the introduction of the Kindle 4 and 4 touch, they still sell Kindle 3 (keyboard) gives me further belief that they may have surplus Kindle 3s. I expect them to stop selling Kindle 3 keyboards once inventory runs out as I think a dedicated keyboard is really unnecessary and the audio is a marketing gimmick. Dont know how long that will be. Interestly, they are still selling DXs. I don't see many people buying new DXs anymore.. only the early adapters seem to have them. So I don't get why they still carry them. Surplus? perhaps.
eReader penetration:
As for a sense of market penetration, I kind of get a rough sense of when I travel. I travel often. Reading on a plane or airport has always been a good time to get through a book for many people. Especially on international trips. I would say that about for every 10 iPads, I see one Kindle. This just my own personal rough estimate. Of course this is not counting other competitors like Nooks, Sony's, Kobo's, etc.
I think printed books still have an edge vs eBook readers. Not by much however. Maybe 1.5-2 printed book readers for every 1 electronic. People reading the in-flight airline magazines or a copy of People they just picked up at the Airport quickie mart dont count in my informal survey. ;-)
It's a pity that the streaming quality of lovefilm is truly dire.
What kind of devices does LoveFilm support?
anyone else think that picture quality of NetFlix on AppleTV is fantastic? I am blown away with how good it looks compared to my Bluray Player, Laptop and iPad on very little bandwidth (1.5Mbit). One of my primary reason for buying the AppleTV was because the Bluray player had poor support and I was thrilled with the improvement in picture quality compared all my other devices. The other was Airplay and Remote. I wonder what the quality of Amazon Prime looks like.
It's a bit mean to call something noise, after someone has spent so much effort on it. So many other tablets have fallen by the wayside, he may very well be right, but no need to be crude about it.
Comments
I call them ANALysts myself too sometimes, but you gotta admit, even a broken clock is correct twice a day, and in this case, the analyst happens to be right!
I'm not claiming that the Kindle Fire is going to flop, far from it. I'm sure that there are plenty of poor people around, especially in this economy, who are going to be attracted to such a device. But, this Amazon mini Android tablet won't have any effect on iPads.
"I'm sure that there are plenty of poor people around"
What an arrogant fraq
Ummm yeah ok
Mmm, yeah. That's outright trolling right there.
Amazon owns the biggest movie rental company in Europe, who also offer streaming movies just like Netflix do:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LoveFilm
Netflix is imploding. Amazon video streaming client is being built into TV's and BR players...over 300 models so far.
Ummm yeah ok. Is this www.kindleinsider.com ? Or are you iTard's just scared that the fire is goign to take sales away from your worshiped toy?
I don't see anybody here who is afraid of the Amazon mini tablet. And why would they be? This is an Apple site and many people here already own the far superior iPad. Why would a much lesser tablet that does much less impress anybody here? Is anybody supposed to be enchanted by the cheap price? This is not a welfare office, again, it's an Apple site where many people own plenty of Apple gear.
If anybody should be worried about the Kindle Fire, it's other Android tablet makers who are also competing in the low-end market for cheap tablets.
It will be interesting to see how Google responds. They have all the same kind of Content. Now that they have Motorola maybe we will see a $199 competitor built by Motorola.
Let them go at it I say. It would be entertaining.
Google lacks the echo system.
Tablet success is the right combination of....
Devic + echo system + ease of use + Price.
Depening upon which on of those you care about, say price, will make you choose one over the other.
The kindle fire is better than all of the Google based tablets because it is super easy to use and it is backed by a echo system rivaled only by Apple.
If anybody should be worried about the Kindle Fire, it's other Android tablet makers who are also competing in the low-end market for cheap tablets.
You can say that again. A closed, proprietary version of Android has (as expected) just made it nearly impossible for any other vendor using Android to make any real headway in the tablet market.
Google lacks the echo system.
If you want to be taken seriously you could start by learning to properly read and write. First graders know the term is ecosystem.
I don't see anybody here who is afraid of the Amazon mini tablet. And why would they be? This is an Apple site and many people here already own the far superior iPad. Why would a much lesser tablet that does much less impress anybody here? Is anybody supposed to be enchanted by the cheap price? This is not a welfare office, again, it's an Apple site where many people own plenty of Apple gear.
If anybody should be worried about the Kindle Fire, it's other Android tablet makers who are also competing in the low-end market for cheap tablets.
+1. Well said. Its give me hope to find that the largest company in the world has found a way to be successful by not making the cheapest product possible, but a high quality product that people are willing to see value and pay premium money for during an economically stressed period in our history. I hope that one day soon, other companies will look back on Apple's success and try to figure out how Apple got to be #1 without competing purely on price and will begin to compete in the same way. By standing out via innovation instead of standing toe to toe purely on price and tiny margins. Cheap is a road to ruin; ask HP and the netbook businesses.
I have hope. Think about where Apple will be if the economy recovers, I can only think people will have more confidence to buy premium product instead of the cheapest option and the company should theoretically grow even faster.
So are we worked about cheap products? This is nothing new. It has yet to prevent Apple from growing and succeeding against cheap alternatives. (iPod, iPhone, iPad). Why would they be concerned? They know they have a winning formula to win against cheap competitors.
Google lacks the echo system.
Sorry, could you be more specific about which part of the ecosystem Google is lacking?
Cloud services - check
App store - check
Music store - check
On Demand Video store - check
Book store - check
Hw capability - check
OS and Software App development capability - check.
Which ecosystem piece are they lacking? I think I missed it.
. First graders know the term is ecosystem.
Wow, they do.. Damn kids are smart these days. I didn't learn that till at least 3rd grade when we did the food chain diagrams.
now echo system I think is something else.. Isn't that what mostly blind animals like bats and trolls use to get around?
Google lacks the echo system.
Devic + echo system + ease of use + Price.
..... a echo system....
If you want to be taken seriously you could start by learning to properly read and write. First graders know the term is ecosystem.
I think he had it right. He was referring to the sound made from the void created after this Kindle Fire thing fails.
The Kindle Fire is a very good ebook reader, not an iPad competitor.
[ ]
The Fire will take market share from other Android tablets, but mostly the Nook. I would consider it as an ebook reader for my kids to use while I use an iPad, but then again I'd probably go for the lower price e-ink based Kindle. I don't see a Fire as a replacement or direct competitor to the iPad. The Fire occupies an odd market segment between e-ink kindles and full featured tablets.
I suspect all the new Kindles will do well in the marketplace as ereaders, as the iPad dominates the post-PC market.
I don't quite get the point of the Fire. The e-ink Kindles are great with a very long battery life. That is what you want for an e-reader. Neither the iPad nor the any other tablet I have seen is a great e-book reader. Mind you the iPad is a pretty good textbook reader.
I could see the Fire being useful for textbooks, but that world seems very fragmented.
There doesn't seem to be an easy way to get video content onto an HDTV or is there? That would make it less appealing for many people.
The $200 price is good. Just not sure what the point is.
Apple has the iPad2 advancing quite nicely. The 7" tablet is not really that mobile, any more than a 10" one. AirPlay will get iPad stuff onto a TV via an ATV2 in a seamless way. That is a pretty big deal.
I like the Kindles although the touchscreen may lower the contrast ( extra layer like the Sony units). On the other hand getting grid of the keyboard is probably a good thing. They should do well. Nice devices.
The whole Android world seems confusing. Can't find one interesting tablet in there. The HP TouchPad is an interesting tablet. WebOS is great. They should never have priced it so high and they should not have given up so quickly. The only interesting possibilities now, other than Apple, in the tablet field would have to come from Microsoft with Windows 8. They have been working on tablets a long time and have some interesting ideas.
In short I see the Fire and the rest of the Andoid things as passing ships. The iPad and Microsoft tablets will be the only interesting ones a year from now.
phiilp
I don't think you can get anymore serious than a textbook, which for the sciences tend to be filled with colour graphics. I recently bought a colour Kindle textbook that displays beautifully on my iPad and Mac. It would significantly weaken the experience to degrade the textbook to black and white.
I do agree with you on this. Textbooks should find homes on colour tablets. Too bad the publishing world is so intent on making it difficult. Magazines, newspapers and textbooks. Otherwise, e-ink is infinitely better.
philip
I don't quite get the point of the Fire. The e-ink Kindles are great with a very long battery life. That is what you want for an e-reader. Neither the iPad nor the any other tablet I have seen is a great e-book reader. Mind you the iPad is a pretty good textbook reader.
I could see the Fire being useful for textbooks, but that world seems very fragmented.
There doesn't seem to be an easy way to get video content onto an HDTV or is there? That would make it less appealing for many people.
The $200 price is good. Just not sure what the point is.
Apple has the iPad2 advancing quite nicely. The 7" tablet is not really that mobile, any more than a 10" one. AirPlay will get iPad stuff onto a TV via an ATV2 in a seamless way. That is a pretty big deal.
I like the Kindles although the touchscreen may lower the contrast ( extra layer like the Sony units). On the other hand getting grid of the keyboard is probably a good thing. They should do well. Nice devices.
The whole Android world seems confusing. Can't find one interesting tablet in there. The HP TouchPad is an interesting tablet. WebOS is great. They should never have priced it so high and they should not have given up so quickly. The only interesting possibilities now, other than Apple, in the tablet field would have to come from Microsoft with Windows 8. They have been working on tablets a long time and have some interesting ideas.
In short I see the Fire and the rest of the Andoid things as passing ships. The iPad and Microsoft tablets will be the only interesting ones a year from now.
phiilp
Wow.. I thought this guy is my twin! He gets it! We are completely aligned. Then you started talking about hope for the MS tablet and you wrecked it for me.
I just dont see the genius of Microsoft here. The split thumbs keyboard was good, I recognized that instantly when I first saw it and posted it here. I said in a post in AppleInsider forum.. this is good.. the iPad should adapt this.. then a few weeks later iOS5 had it.. bada bang.. bravo.
The other stuff about running x86 desktop apps on a tablet. I dont get, how this is different then what they have attempted before. Metro HTML5 based UI? I dont know. Still dont know why it would be better then simply a good native tablet UI. Guess I need to learn more about it.
Considering that Amazon never reveals how many Kindles it sells, we may never know if it's a blockbuster or a dud.
The Kindle as a platform should either be doing reasonably well or Bezos is very deluded to keep going like this. This batch is the fourth generation of Kindle devices, if it's not showing results, I would hope he would shut it down.
Amazon need to sell around 2 million units a year to take second spot. If that isn't a lock then I don't know what is.
Daring Fireball's analysis is much better than anything on Wall Street.
I wonder how anyone would know, as most of them are sold on their own store, so it wouldn't show up on such a list.
I find that whenever someone is trying to be manipulative, they always open with a statement that try to assert that they are open minded, however it usually become obvious to their true intend a few minutes later when their follow on dialog is completely unaligned with the opening statement.
This mostly comes from politicians and management.
Reasons like this are why I ignore the "I like ____, but ____" and similar opening lines. There's no way to be sure if someone is a real owner or a real user, it usually doesn't matter anyway.
I am in the US and I believe that tax should not be charged as long as the business is not physically located in the same state that somebody resides in. Each state has different rules in place about that. I use every legal loophole possible to avoid giving any more tax money to the corruptocrats than I must.
If you're truly concerned with legality, make sure you check that with an accountant, if you haven't done so already. A lot of states do require a use tax for items which you bought from out of state. Use tax is very poorly enforced, but I'm pretty sure dodging it isn't legal.
New tech is funded by the sale of previous tech. In order for Amazon to evolve their "fire" their stuffy azz consumers will have to be progressive enough to always buy new Kindles all the time. I don't see that happening. Grandpa and grandma ain't playing that game. They aren't Android fanboys. That is just my two cents.
I don't think the same customers buying the newest product is the only reason to keep the product updated. Another reason is to not get caught left behind by competitors, you can't attract new customers by having outdated hardware. Technology improves every year, and the market changes over time too, so it's justifiable for them to keep roughly annual updates to keep up in the market, even if a typical customer might only replace hardware every three or four years.
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/st...10858/1?csp=hf
I wonder how anyone would know, as most of them are sold on their own store, so it wouldn't show up on such a list.
you have a point. However, it still may be possible to analyze this. As you probably know Kindle are sold at some other local retail stores nationwdie. I think some ANALists could get a sense how well they are selling by asking staff at places like Target and take surveys of people in airports.
Retail survey:
People are hesitant switching from printed books to eInk until they see it from themselves. To do this best, you go to B&N or a store demoing Kindle. I have personally never had any problems with availability at retail stores. I have purchased 3 Kindles now. . So something tells me supply is able to keep up with demand. The fact that with the introduction of the Kindle 4 and 4 touch, they still sell Kindle 3 (keyboard) gives me further belief that they may have surplus Kindle 3s. I expect them to stop selling Kindle 3 keyboards once inventory runs out as I think a dedicated keyboard is really unnecessary and the audio is a marketing gimmick. Dont know how long that will be. Interestly, they are still selling DXs. I don't see many people buying new DXs anymore.. only the early adapters seem to have them. So I don't get why they still carry them. Surplus? perhaps.
eReader penetration:
As for a sense of market penetration, I kind of get a rough sense of when I travel. I travel often. Reading on a plane or airport has always been a good time to get through a book for many people. Especially on international trips. I would say that about for every 10 iPads, I see one Kindle. This just my own personal rough estimate. Of course this is not counting other competitors like Nooks, Sony's, Kobo's, etc.
I think printed books still have an edge vs eBook readers. Not by much however. Maybe 1.5-2 printed book readers for every 1 electronic. People reading the in-flight airline magazines or a copy of People they just picked up at the Airport quickie mart dont count in my informal survey. ;-)
analists.
omg haha that's so funy i never noticed that lol
Amazon owns the biggest movie rental company in Europe, who also offer streaming movies just like Netflix do:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LoveFilm
It's a pity that the streaming quality of lovefilm is truly dire.
It's a pity that the streaming quality of lovefilm is truly dire.
What kind of devices does LoveFilm support?
anyone else think that picture quality of NetFlix on AppleTV is fantastic? I am blown away with how good it looks compared to my Bluray Player, Laptop and iPad on very little bandwidth (1.5Mbit). One of my primary reason for buying the AppleTV was because the Bluray player had poor support and I was thrilled with the improvement in picture quality compared all my other devices. The other was Airplay and Remote. I wonder what the quality of Amazon Prime looks like.