I don't see anybody here who is afraid of the Amazon mini tablet. And why would they be? This is an Apple site and many people here already own the far superior iPad. Why would a much lesser tablet that does much less impress anybody here? Is anybody supposed to be enchanted by the cheap price? This is not a welfare office, again, it's an Apple site where many people own plenty of Apple gear.
If anybody should be worried about the Kindle Fire, it's other Android tablet makers who are also competing in the low-end market for cheap tablets.
+1. The price point for a 7" device has now been set... even if the other manufacturers "pimp" the device with everything including the kitchen sink... um... Flash sink.
How ironic would it be, if :
a) Amazon's tablet is proof in the court case against Samsung, that a tablet CAN run Android and NOT copy Apple;
b) if future devices from any manufacturer are graded on whether they will have full access to the Amazon Store and premium content... instead of Google's offerings.
I think it will be interesting to see how Google deals with this "fork" of Android... and what ideas it gives other manufacturers to "bake their own". Also considering that Microsoft is extracting licensing fees from HTC, Samsung and a few other manufacturers, at what point do these manufacturers start to cozy up to MS, and start offering Bing, etc. in able to get preferential treatment when Win8 is ready to go.
I'm still betting that Google will eventually pull the plug on active development of Android... or at the very least, stop releasing their code to play and develop around.
I'm still betting that Google will eventually pull the plug on active development of Android... or at the very least, stop releasing their code to play and develop around.
That's a funny one. But yes, I agree. They will stop active development of Android eventually..around year 2080.
The Kindle Fire's 7-inch screen, coupled with the absence of a camera, GPS and microphone, were listed as shortcomings when compared to similar devices such as the iPad. And because the device also lacks 3G connectivity, Moskowitz believes it could be a hybrid device leading the way for a more full-featured device.
7 inch screen I'll agree with as a big reason not to get one. As for camera, GPS and microphone, I don't think anyone will care that it hasn't got them.
Ultimately I think it will come down to the adverts. The Kindle has good adverts which is a posative, but it really depends if they can match the iPad adverts which people have not gone a week without seeing for well over a year now. So far no other tablet has had any decents ads and as a result nobody thinks of it as a product that they "want"
If the ads work then I think people will be looking at the iPad and Fire and basing the judgement on do I want the bigger screen and if I do, do I want to pay that much more for it.
"Everyone Else" and all the pundits gushing over the Fire really should wait until they have the real thing in hand to test and review in detail. a demo at a press conference is never the complete story - haven't they learned that hard lesson yet, after so many other hypes at the announcement phase have turned to flops in real life? just how good a user experience the Fire is in all the ways that matter, and how well the hardware performs in real life, remain to be seen. or should Everyone Else always just swallow the hype they are spoon fed at these press events?
one thing that is really disappointing about all that gushing is how blind Everyone Else is to the plain fact there already is a low-priced "iPad Mini" tablet and has been for several years - it's the iPod touch of course. forget what Apple named it, that's just marketing. for just $229, $30 more than a Fire, Everyone Else can get right now everything the Fire has to offer and more. in a beautiful package, i might add, not the Fire's clunky modified Playbook chassis.
the only real advantage of the Fire vs. the touch is of course the Fire's 7" screen is twice the touch's 3.5" size, with 4X the screen area. that makes the Fire easier to use for most, altho too big for most pockets. both are running smartphone apps, the Fire just scales them up - not great.
i'd agree if Everyone Else suggested Apple should come out with a larger model of the iPod touch, like 5.5," to address the same "convenience tablet" market. with about 2X the screen area of a 3.5" model this size has been used by Sony for its PGP's, and it works really good for users (but Sony has other problems). it's more pocket-friendly too.
simply enlarging the size of the iPod touch would not add that much to its manufacturing cost, as all the stuff inside would be the same except a larger battery. Apple could sell one for $299.
so if Everyone Else had a lovely $299 slim and light 5.5" Apple iPod touch on a store table next to the dowdy $199 thick and heavy 7" Amazon Fire, which would they buy?
one thing Everyone Else might take in to account making that choice is that the touch could use its Amazon app to scan bar codes in that store and comparison shop at Amazon for better prices on the web. but having no camera, Amazon's own Fire could not (and that's a really dumb V.1 mistake).
I'm thinking along the same lines, namely that for Apple the best response to this sort of challenge is to make a larger iPod Touch. The size of the screen is the one aspect of my Touch that I don't find to my liking. Not sure if the first step would be to move past a five-inch form factor but I definitely think that 3.5 inches is not the sweet spot for such a device. I think something more in the 4.7-inch range might be that spot, namely the point at which the device remains pocketable for most yet offers enough screen real estate for a lot of what it's used for.
I really don't see what the downside would be to offering a 4.7-inch Touch. Such a device would certainly be a viable response to the Fire, trading off some screen real estate for functionality at roughly the same price point. While going from 3.5" to 4.7" doesn't sound like much, it is a significantly larger screen percentage wise but in terms of the actual dimensions, the device would remain easily pocket-friendly. More pocket-friendly, certainly, than the 7" Fire and yet not that much less enjoyable to use.
It is true that such a Touch device might impact iPad sales somewhat but a lot of those sales would be lost to devices like the Fire just the same so this would still work as a net gain for Apple.
It's hard for me to imagine that Apple hasn't considered this option and certainly if it hasn't considered it seriously to this point, with devices like the Fire emerging, now would be a good time to take it seriously. Even if the Touch receives a minimal upgrade next week, there is no reason why such a revision to the Touch would have to wait until next Fall to come to market. As soon as the revised Touch was available, Apple could continue selling the existing Touch at lower prices and bring this new model out, slotting it in at the Touch's current price point.
This seems to me a logical way for Apple to go but I have to say that as a long-time shareholder, whatever Apple decides to do, I'm sure they have it all figured out. The company has been on an incredible run since I first bought shares back in 2003.
Still, I have this gut feeling that the time has come to rethink the Touch.
Stick with Apple. They aim like an arrow towards customers like you, and there are millions of them. Nothing will confuse you if you stick with Apple products.
7 inch screen I'll agree with as a big reason not to get one. As for camera, GPS and microphone, I don't think anyone will care that it hasn't got them.
Ultimately I think it will come down to the adverts. The Kindle has good adverts which is a posative, but it really depends if they can match the iPad adverts which people have not gone a week without seeing for well over a year now. So far no other tablet has had any decents ads and as a result nobody thinks of it as a product that they "want"
If the ads work then I think people will be looking at the iPad and Fire and basing the judgement on do I want the bigger screen and if I do, do I want to pay that much more for it.
I thought that a seven-inch screen would make a lot of sense but then I tried the Playbook and the iPad, back-to-back in-store and it's no contest. That extra screen real estate matters.
I think for the most part Apple has it right in that the focus should be either on a screen in the 10-inch range ala the iPad or something portable like the Touch. The 7" size is far less convenient than the smart-phone grade of device and far less enjoyable to browse on than the iPad size.
The one change I would make, though, is to make the Touch range a little larger. Keep the portability but dial down the compromise of using a much smaller screen.
Completely disagree, by the way, that the iPad is mainly successful because Apple's ads are better. The iPad is just that much better than the other tablets and the price is roughly the same. Why would anyone buy one of those other inferior products. It would be like having a BMW 3-series and the Chevy Malibu offered at the same price and a significant number passing up the BMW. Not gonna happen.
Initially there will be a lot of interest in the Fire but once customers start using the product day-to-day, if the experience is inferior to living with an iPad, word will get out and all the slick advertising in the world will not save the Fire. Apple does user experience far better than any other company. It's what has turned it into this century's most impressive success story.
According to technology reports and reviewers, FLASH content runs fine on the device. In fact it runs fine on just about all of them. With newer hardware models that are more capable, the argument that FLASH is just bad is pretty much gone. In fact on NPR many reporters complained about the frustration of owning an Apple iOS product and unable to view any FLASH content. Right on national news. Once again, Apple will be left behind. \
Note to JP Morgan: While not a direct competitor to the device known as the iPad 2, the Kindle Fire will affect sales of the iPad. It will not change my purchase plans for an iPad for myself, but it already has changed my purchase plans for the kids.
At the $199 price point I can afford to buy a device to entertain the kids and not have to care that it will probably be destroyed in short-order. I won't be buying into Amazon's $80/year service, but I will be looking to get the device itself. Too bad for Amazon they chose to price it at what will be a loss.
7 inch screen I'll agree with as a big reason not to get one. As for camera, GPS and microphone, I don't think anyone will care that it hasn't got them.
The first iPad didn't need a camera or microphone to sell spectacularly well, so that doesn't seem like an argument that it's necessary. To get an iPad with GPS, you need the cellular data models, so the "no GPS" argument really compares a $630 and up cellular data iPad to get the good AGPS performance, against a $200 device that lacks GPS.
Note to JP Morgan: While not a direct competitor to the device known as the iPad 2, the Kindle Fire will affect sales of the iPad. It will not change my purchase plans for an iPad for myself, but it already has changed my purchase plans for the kids.
At the $199 price point I can afford to buy a device to entertain the kids and not have to care that it will probably be destroyed in short-order. I won't be buying into Amazon's $80/year service, but I will be looking to get the device itself. Too bad for Amazon they chose to price it at what will be a loss.
I meant kicking Apple's butt WRT market share. Android outsells iOS at a greater than 2 to 1 ratio.
"iOS powered devices generate more revenue than all of Microsoft?s products put together" -asymco market comparison
iOS alone has more value than the entire MS company in revenue. How is Android at turning a profit? How are those Android phone sellers doing there? That working out good for 'em? Making it up on volume are they?
Completely disagree, by the way, that the iPad is mainly successful because Apple's ads are better. The iPad is just that much better than the other tablets and the price is roughly the same. Why would anyone buy one of those other inferior products. It would be like having a BMW 3-series and the Chevy Malibu offered at the same price and a significant number passing up the BMW. Not gonna happen.
To reach the success of anyone buying the product you need decent ads. People arn't going out thinking they need a tablet and choosing the iPad. There watching ads for iPads every week and then feeling like they want one. The same way millions of people bought iPod's during constant advertising that went on for years, they wern't replacing another portable music player, the ads just make them want one.
So far every other tablet has had a half arsed ad campaign that might be enough if people we're going to buy a tablet and comparing them but there not. People don't even know what a tablet is, all they know is iPad.
To reach the success of anyone buying the product you need decent ads. People arn't going out thinking they need a tablet and choosing the iPad.
Apple does not need to advertise much. All the secrecy and hype in the news is the best free advertising. You cant buy advertising like that. Just you watch come Oct 4th.. you wont be able to escape the media blitz.. the same goes for the next iPad.
Even grandma will hear about it in the retirement home. "That Apple, I hear they have a new and improved product that everyone is fighting over to get'.
there are so many iPhone and iPad in the market already, you see them everywhere and people LOVE apple product once they buy them. Word of mouth is also very powerful.
If the Fire is "loved" by its owners in the same way then it will succeed. The fact that we no one has actually been allowed to handle a Fire prevents us from figuring this out. Kindle eInk readers are certainly loved by their owners. Amazon has a great eBook store.. much better then Apple's (more selection and better prices in my experience).
However, extending Amazon's book reach to other content is questionable. If I was looking for on-line Music, Movies and Apps I would not be picking Amazon, personally. There are better options. As a eBook reader, the Fire is not as good as the Kindle eInks. It will be interesting to see if people are willing to trade optimal eInk reader capability in-conjunction with a rich eBook store for access to online Music, Movies and Application stores which are not market leading. If the Fire allows you to access you iTunes purchases and stores, NetFlix and the general open Android marketplace then it would stand a better chance of acceptance. Not sure Amazon will ever let that happen.
Heck they even control what you see on web sites via the Silk architecture. Oh I am sorry, you are saying you can't read the New York Times web site very well? Oh I am sorry.. have you considered buying a subscription to NYT via our Newspaper App?
I dont rule that out. You dont have access to the web from your browser... all you access is the Amazon servers. Think about it. They have this thing so locked down. All content comes from them. Amazon's books, music, video, and even the web.
Its the same game companies like Comcast/NBC-Universal are playing. The next step is for Amazon to merge with Comcast/NBC/Universal in order to realize the dream of Buy-N-Large Corporation (reference to Wall-E). "No need to adjust your TV set, we now control all you hear, see and buy"
Comments
These so called "analyst" should all be fired.
They dont know a thing about marketing, consumer behavior and purchasing patterns.
..and you don't have the slightest clue about business manufacturing or economics... but I'll give ya the point anyway re: ANALysts.
I don't see anybody here who is afraid of the Amazon mini tablet. And why would they be? This is an Apple site and many people here already own the far superior iPad. Why would a much lesser tablet that does much less impress anybody here? Is anybody supposed to be enchanted by the cheap price? This is not a welfare office, again, it's an Apple site where many people own plenty of Apple gear.
If anybody should be worried about the Kindle Fire, it's other Android tablet makers who are also competing in the low-end market for cheap tablets.
+1. The price point for a 7" device has now been set... even if the other manufacturers "pimp" the device with everything including the kitchen sink... um... Flash sink.
How ironic would it be, if :
a) Amazon's tablet is proof in the court case against Samsung, that a tablet CAN run Android and NOT copy Apple;
b) if future devices from any manufacturer are graded on whether they will have full access to the Amazon Store and premium content... instead of Google's offerings.
I think it will be interesting to see how Google deals with this "fork" of Android... and what ideas it gives other manufacturers to "bake their own". Also considering that Microsoft is extracting licensing fees from HTC, Samsung and a few other manufacturers, at what point do these manufacturers start to cozy up to MS, and start offering Bing, etc. in able to get preferential treatment when Win8 is ready to go.
I'm still betting that Google will eventually pull the plug on active development of Android... or at the very least, stop releasing their code to play and develop around.
I'm still betting that Google will eventually pull the plug on active development of Android... or at the very least, stop releasing their code to play and develop around.
That's a funny one. But yes, I agree. They will stop active development of Android eventually..around year 2080.
The Kindle Fire's 7-inch screen, coupled with the absence of a camera, GPS and microphone, were listed as shortcomings when compared to similar devices such as the iPad. And because the device also lacks 3G connectivity, Moskowitz believes it could be a hybrid device leading the way for a more full-featured device.
7 inch screen I'll agree with as a big reason not to get one. As for camera, GPS and microphone, I don't think anyone will care that it hasn't got them.
Ultimately I think it will come down to the adverts. The Kindle has good adverts which is a posative, but it really depends if they can match the iPad adverts which people have not gone a week without seeing for well over a year now. So far no other tablet has had any decents ads and as a result nobody thinks of it as a product that they "want"
If the ads work then I think people will be looking at the iPad and Fire and basing the judgement on do I want the bigger screen and if I do, do I want to pay that much more for it.
Does the Fire support connection ti an Android hotspot?
Unless an "Android hotspot" is somehow different from any other WIFI connection, then the answer is yes.
Do you think that Android phones transmit some kind of aberrant WIFI signal?
"Everyone Else" and all the pundits gushing over the Fire really should wait until they have the real thing in hand to test and review in detail. a demo at a press conference is never the complete story - haven't they learned that hard lesson yet, after so many other hypes at the announcement phase have turned to flops in real life? just how good a user experience the Fire is in all the ways that matter, and how well the hardware performs in real life, remain to be seen. or should Everyone Else always just swallow the hype they are spoon fed at these press events?
one thing that is really disappointing about all that gushing is how blind Everyone Else is to the plain fact there already is a low-priced "iPad Mini" tablet and has been for several years - it's the iPod touch of course. forget what Apple named it, that's just marketing. for just $229, $30 more than a Fire, Everyone Else can get right now everything the Fire has to offer and more. in a beautiful package, i might add, not the Fire's clunky modified Playbook chassis.
the only real advantage of the Fire vs. the touch is of course the Fire's 7" screen is twice the touch's 3.5" size, with 4X the screen area. that makes the Fire easier to use for most, altho too big for most pockets. both are running smartphone apps, the Fire just scales them up - not great.
i'd agree if Everyone Else suggested Apple should come out with a larger model of the iPod touch, like 5.5," to address the same "convenience tablet" market. with about 2X the screen area of a 3.5" model this size has been used by Sony for its PGP's, and it works really good for users (but Sony has other problems). it's more pocket-friendly too.
simply enlarging the size of the iPod touch would not add that much to its manufacturing cost, as all the stuff inside would be the same except a larger battery. Apple could sell one for $299.
so if Everyone Else had a lovely $299 slim and light 5.5" Apple iPod touch on a store table next to the dowdy $199 thick and heavy 7" Amazon Fire, which would they buy?
one thing Everyone Else might take in to account making that choice is that the touch could use its Amazon app to scan bar codes in that store and comparison shop at Amazon for better prices on the web. but having no camera, Amazon's own Fire could not (and that's a really dumb V.1 mistake).
I'm thinking along the same lines, namely that for Apple the best response to this sort of challenge is to make a larger iPod Touch. The size of the screen is the one aspect of my Touch that I don't find to my liking. Not sure if the first step would be to move past a five-inch form factor but I definitely think that 3.5 inches is not the sweet spot for such a device. I think something more in the 4.7-inch range might be that spot, namely the point at which the device remains pocketable for most yet offers enough screen real estate for a lot of what it's used for.
I really don't see what the downside would be to offering a 4.7-inch Touch. Such a device would certainly be a viable response to the Fire, trading off some screen real estate for functionality at roughly the same price point. While going from 3.5" to 4.7" doesn't sound like much, it is a significantly larger screen percentage wise but in terms of the actual dimensions, the device would remain easily pocket-friendly. More pocket-friendly, certainly, than the 7" Fire and yet not that much less enjoyable to use.
It is true that such a Touch device might impact iPad sales somewhat but a lot of those sales would be lost to devices like the Fire just the same so this would still work as a net gain for Apple.
It's hard for me to imagine that Apple hasn't considered this option and certainly if it hasn't considered it seriously to this point, with devices like the Fire emerging, now would be a good time to take it seriously. Even if the Touch receives a minimal upgrade next week, there is no reason why such a revision to the Touch would have to wait until next Fall to come to market. As soon as the revised Touch was available, Apple could continue selling the existing Touch at lower prices and bring this new model out, slotting it in at the Touch's current price point.
This seems to me a logical way for Apple to go but I have to say that as a long-time shareholder, whatever Apple decides to do, I'm sure they have it all figured out. The company has been on an incredible run since I first bought shares back in 2003.
Still, I have this gut feeling that the time has come to rethink the Touch.
The whole Android world seems confusing.
Stick with Apple. They aim like an arrow towards customers like you, and there are millions of them. Nothing will confuse you if you stick with Apple products.
7 inch screen I'll agree with as a big reason not to get one. As for camera, GPS and microphone, I don't think anyone will care that it hasn't got them.
Ultimately I think it will come down to the adverts. The Kindle has good adverts which is a posative, but it really depends if they can match the iPad adverts which people have not gone a week without seeing for well over a year now. So far no other tablet has had any decents ads and as a result nobody thinks of it as a product that they "want"
If the ads work then I think people will be looking at the iPad and Fire and basing the judgement on do I want the bigger screen and if I do, do I want to pay that much more for it.
I thought that a seven-inch screen would make a lot of sense but then I tried the Playbook and the iPad, back-to-back in-store and it's no contest. That extra screen real estate matters.
I think for the most part Apple has it right in that the focus should be either on a screen in the 10-inch range ala the iPad or something portable like the Touch. The 7" size is far less convenient than the smart-phone grade of device and far less enjoyable to browse on than the iPad size.
The one change I would make, though, is to make the Touch range a little larger. Keep the portability but dial down the compromise of using a much smaller screen.
Completely disagree, by the way, that the iPad is mainly successful because Apple's ads are better. The iPad is just that much better than the other tablets and the price is roughly the same. Why would anyone buy one of those other inferior products. It would be like having a BMW 3-series and the Chevy Malibu offered at the same price and a significant number passing up the BMW. Not gonna happen.
Initially there will be a lot of interest in the Fire but once customers start using the product day-to-day, if the experience is inferior to living with an iPad, word will get out and all the slick advertising in the world will not save the Fire. Apple does user experience far better than any other company. It's what has turned it into this century's most impressive success story.
At the $199 price point I can afford to buy a device to entertain the kids and not have to care that it will probably be destroyed in short-order. I won't be buying into Amazon's $80/year service, but I will be looking to get the device itself. Too bad for Amazon they chose to price it at what will be a loss.
the argument that FLASH is just bad is pretty much gone.
Other than all the actual arguments that prove it's pretty darn terrible and the wrong way to go in the future of web content.
Once again, Apple will be left behind.
In other news, millions of iPads and iPhones are sold every quarter, Apple dominates the market, and no one gives a frick about Flash not being there.
In other news, millions of iPads and iPhones are sold every quarter, Apple dominates the market, and no one gives a frick about Flash not being there.
We must remember the "many" reporters at NPR...
7 inch screen I'll agree with as a big reason not to get one. As for camera, GPS and microphone, I don't think anyone will care that it hasn't got them.
The first iPad didn't need a camera or microphone to sell spectacularly well, so that doesn't seem like an argument that it's necessary. To get an iPad with GPS, you need the cellular data models, so the "no GPS" argument really compares a $630 and up cellular data iPad to get the good AGPS performance, against a $200 device that lacks GPS.
Note to JP Morgan: While not a direct competitor to the device known as the iPad 2, the Kindle Fire will affect sales of the iPad. It will not change my purchase plans for an iPad for myself, but it already has changed my purchase plans for the kids.
At the $199 price point I can afford to buy a device to entertain the kids and not have to care that it will probably be destroyed in short-order. I won't be buying into Amazon's $80/year service, but I will be looking to get the device itself. Too bad for Amazon they chose to price it at what will be a loss.
Isn't the Touch an option, then?
If not, then why.
I meant kicking Apple's butt WRT market share. Android outsells iOS at a greater than 2 to 1 ratio.
"iOS powered devices generate more revenue than all of Microsoft?s products put together" -asymco market comparison
iOS alone has more value than the entire MS company in revenue. How is Android at turning a profit? How are those Android phone sellers doing there? That working out good for 'em? Making it up on volume are they?
I suspect Apple is crying all the way to bank...
Completely disagree, by the way, that the iPad is mainly successful because Apple's ads are better. The iPad is just that much better than the other tablets and the price is roughly the same. Why would anyone buy one of those other inferior products. It would be like having a BMW 3-series and the Chevy Malibu offered at the same price and a significant number passing up the BMW. Not gonna happen.
To reach the success of anyone buying the product you need decent ads. People arn't going out thinking they need a tablet and choosing the iPad. There watching ads for iPads every week and then feeling like they want one. The same way millions of people bought iPod's during constant advertising that went on for years, they wern't replacing another portable music player, the ads just make them want one.
So far every other tablet has had a half arsed ad campaign that might be enough if people we're going to buy a tablet and comparing them but there not. People don't even know what a tablet is, all they know is iPad.
To reach the success of anyone buying the product you need decent ads. People arn't going out thinking they need a tablet and choosing the iPad.
Apple does not need to advertise much. All the secrecy and hype in the news is the best free advertising. You cant buy advertising like that. Just you watch come Oct 4th.. you wont be able to escape the media blitz.. the same goes for the next iPad.
Even grandma will hear about it in the retirement home. "That Apple, I hear they have a new and improved product that everyone is fighting over to get'.
there are so many iPhone and iPad in the market already, you see them everywhere and people LOVE apple product once they buy them. Word of mouth is also very powerful.
If the Fire is "loved" by its owners in the same way then it will succeed. The fact that we no one has actually been allowed to handle a Fire prevents us from figuring this out. Kindle eInk readers are certainly loved by their owners. Amazon has a great eBook store.. much better then Apple's (more selection and better prices in my experience).
However, extending Amazon's book reach to other content is questionable. If I was looking for on-line Music, Movies and Apps I would not be picking Amazon, personally. There are better options. As a eBook reader, the Fire is not as good as the Kindle eInks. It will be interesting to see if people are willing to trade optimal eInk reader capability in-conjunction with a rich eBook store for access to online Music, Movies and Application stores which are not market leading. If the Fire allows you to access you iTunes purchases and stores, NetFlix and the general open Android marketplace then it would stand a better chance of acceptance. Not sure Amazon will ever let that happen.
Heck they even control what you see on web sites via the Silk architecture. Oh I am sorry, you are saying you can't read the New York Times web site very well? Oh I am sorry.. have you considered buying a subscription to NYT via our Newspaper App?
I dont rule that out. You dont have access to the web from your browser... all you access is the Amazon servers. Think about it. They have this thing so locked down. All content comes from them. Amazon's books, music, video, and even the web.
Its the same game companies like Comcast/NBC-Universal are playing. The next step is for Amazon to merge with Comcast/NBC/Universal in order to realize the dream of Buy-N-Large Corporation (reference to Wall-E). "No need to adjust your TV set, we now control all you hear, see and buy"