- this deal is for a 6 month exclusivity for the first 4G iPhone. Apple wants to release a 4G model, but the state of the LTE chipset ecosystem, battery life, cost, etc are not yet at a level where Apple can release an LTE iPhone now. Rather than wait a year for LTE to get there, Apple decided to make a phone for Sprint using WiMAX.
- this exclusivity is just a matter of where LTE is at the moment. Nothing to do with Sprint itself.
- the 30.5M phone commitment on the other hand has got a lot to do with Sprint. Apple does not want to invest in developing a WiMAX phone unless there is some confidence that there will be enough units sold to justify the investment.
- for those who think 30.5M units over 4Y is no big deal, remember, this implies that either Sprint will have somewhere around 40% of it's network on the iPhone in 4Y time. This is a big deal, as there is no way Sprint can know today that there will not be a better Android phone over the next 4Y. The androids are already there in terms of being able to compete with the iPhone - and if there are phones that are as good as the iPhone it is tough to get 40% of the sprint network on the iPhone. And this has to happen in an environment where Apple is dropping prices on it's lineup aggressively at other carriers.
- from Sprint's perspective, this was the only way to get the iPhone 5.
- the only part of this story that is really interesting is that we will see 2 models - a 4S and a 5. The 5 will be Sprint only for the first 6 months. Or till Apple is ready with LTE.
- to reduce the dissatisfaction from having released a marginally changed phone after over 13 months, expect to see a fairly big price cut on the 4S. And expect massive volumes. Apple is targeting over 30M phones this holiday season!
- after the iPad experience, Apple has learnt that they should take advantage of their volumes and supply chain efficiency to lower prices of their flagship products to a level where the competitors just cannot compete profitably. This is the only way for Apple to have a marketshare edge over Android.
- it is clear that Apple wants not just profitshare and mindshare, but also marketshare, and will be willing to give up their margins to regain marketshare.
- this is possibly the biggest change in attitude shown by post-Jobs Apple. And rightfully so - when the CEO is an expert at operations, you have to expect this sort of change in Apple.
- I believe that the new Apple will prove to be an even more stronger player and others will find it difficult to compete. Earlier Apple was willing to leave a few chips on the table - the new Apple will take no prisoners.
- this might prove to have legal and anti trust implications over time. But for now, enjoy the ride.
In spite of the ludicrousy of the idea that Sprint would have the iPhone5 exclusively for four years I do think it sounds logical.
Since the introduction of the iPhone it became immediately clear that mobile phone services were about to change drastically. First the iPhone introduced Visual Voicemail. A replacement for a succesful service then provided by carriers as an add on for which you had to pay extra. Visual Voicemail actually brought the data to your phone, which could be done by wireless connections as wel...
Then came the apps.. such as WhatsApp diminishing lucrative SMS services.
And Skype was among them, artificially prohibited on 3G networks but clearly capable in delivering mobile telephony at a fraction of the cost. At a certain point the iPod Touch became a serious alternative for having low cost telecommunication through local wireless networks.
Now... my guess is that the future of mobile telephony is internet only. Sure we need frequencies for that, but as long as carriers are not willing to ditch lucrative old fashioned services, Apple is not capable of innovating towards their (I guess unknown) vision.
So in order to improve this it might be an excellent strategy to team up with a carrier who has the guts and despair to innovate alongside Apple, who is large enough to gain traction and put competition in quality service back again for the top carriers. I'd say Apple single handedly is protecting competitiveness among the largest carriers. And I wish Sprint success in their desperate but bold jump back in the race. They might prove to be Apple worthy partners really innovating the telcom industry.
Good grief, what exactly do you think this thing is if not a cellular phone?
If you think it is logical to tie your latest, certainly hottest handset to the carrier tied for dead last in market share, while alienating huge numbers of your customers AND your carrier partners, then I have a bridge in Brooklyn i'd like to sell you.
Man, it defies logic! You said it sounds logical - how?
"Well, uh, see... if you assume that the cellular market is really dying instead of expanding at a huge rate... and, uh, you assume that the iPhone 5 isn't really a cell phone, see... but some sort of totaly new ... thingy... that isn't a cell phone but that represents a totally new vision, and you sortof assume that Sprint was the only cell network with the guts to sell a product that undermines their own business.... then see it makes great sense to go exclusive with them, see, because they want to partner with you to change the whole world, and its totally logical."
Are you sure you thought this through all the way?
- this deal is for a 6 month exclusivity for the first 4G iPhone. Apple wants to release a 4G model, but the state of the LTE chipset ecosystem, battery life, cost, etc are not yet at a level where Apple can release an LTE iPhone now. Rather than wait a year for LTE to get there, Apple decided to make a phone for Sprint using WiMAX.
- this exclusivity is just a matter of where LTE is at the moment. Nothing to do with Sprint itself.
- the 30.5M phone commitment on the other hand has got a lot to do with Sprint. Apple does not want to invest in developing a WiMAX phone unless there is some confidence that there will be enough units sold to justify the investment.
- for those who think 30.5M units over 4Y is no big deal, remember, this implies that either Sprint will have somewhere around 40% of it's network on the iPhone in 4Y time. This is a big deal, as there is no way Sprint can know today that there will not be a better Android phone over the next 4Y. The androids are already there in terms of being able to compete with the iPhone - and if there are phones that are as good as the iPhone it is tough to get 40% of the sprint network on the iPhone. And this has to happen in an environment where Apple is dropping prices on it's lineup aggressively at other carriers.
- from Sprint's perspective, this was the only way to get the iPhone 5.
- the only part of this story that is really interesting is that we will see 2 models - a 4S and a 5. The 5 will be Sprint only for the first 6 months. Or till Apple is ready with LTE.
- to reduce the dissatisfaction from having released a marginally changed phone after over 13 months, expect to see a fairly big price cut on the 4S. And expect massive volumes. Apple is targeting over 30M phones this holiday season!
- after the iPad experience, Apple has learnt that they should take advantage of their volumes and supply chain efficiency to lower prices of their flagship products to a level where the competitors just cannot compete profitably. This is the only way for Apple to have a marketshare edge over Android.
- it is clear that Apple wants not just profitshare and mindshare, but also marketshare, and will be willing to give up their margins to regain marketshare.
- this is possibly the biggest change in attitude shown by post-Jobs Apple. And rightfully so - when the CEO is an expert at operations, you have to expect this sort of change in Apple.
- I believe that the new Apple will prove to be an even more stronger player and others will find it difficult to compete. Earlier Apple was willing to leave a few chips on the table - the new Apple will take no prisoners.
- this might prove to have legal and anti trust implications over time. But for now, enjoy the ride.
I disagree with virtually every point you made.
First, I think it would be completely foolish of Apple to risk alienating current carrier partners AND customers. If they did this, it would A) make carriers angry by inducing their customers to switch to another carrier and it would make customer who are locked in on contract angry because they would not be able to get the phone. Neither outcome makes good business sense for Apple, so Apple would be much more likely to wait until they could launch the same handset across their major carrier partners.
Second, 30 million iPhones over a four year period isn't actually that big a deal, from an Apple perspective. Worldwide iPhone sales are currently pegged at around 80 million a year and growing. In a 4 year period, that's 320 million units.
You are arguing that a less than 10% bump in distribution yearly would be enough to cause Apple to compromise its core business in the US - it just makes no sense. It also makes ZERO sense from the perspective you are actually arguing - that it is about volume. If it were about volume, Apple would clearly NOT want to have any period of exclusivity with Sprint, because ultimately it would simply reduce sales through their other carrier partners.
Only one part of this story has any chance at all of being true, In my opinion: that Sprint had to agree to a 30.5 million phone volume over four years in order to get the phone.
[QUOTE=Seattleinfo;1955602]Well, the WSJ as well as Sprints cheif are now confirming the deal. It's a good deal for Apple's already flush bottom line but is good for the customer loyalty they so often benefit from? If Sprint is the only carrier this holiday season to get the new styalized iPhone body, then this becomes Apples long term problem. Tbose of us who have been always looking to Apple for fair treatment of their early adopters, will (and should) begin to question their integrity as a company.
Umm... he was not in the Senate when sox legislation was passed in 2002.
Didn't say authored, co-authored, voted for... The justice department he now oversees has and does support the 2002 flavor of S.O. and fought to keep it whole.
Well, the WSJ as well as Sprints cheif are now confirming the deal. It's a good deal for Apple's already flush bottom line but is good for the customer loyalty they so often benefit from? If Sprint is the only carrier this holiday season to get the new styalized iPhone body, then this becomes Apples long term problem. Tbose of us who have been always looking to Apple for fair treatment of their early adopters, will (and should) begin to question their integrity as a company.
Finally some common sense.
Ok, first of all, the only deal being 'confirmed' is that Sprint bet the company on an agreement to purchase 30.5 million iPhones over the next four years, NOT that Sprint has some sort of goofy exclusivity for it.
Really, can we separate fact from fiction here just a little bit?
Ok, first of all, the only deal being 'confirmed' is that Sprint bet the company on an agreement to purchase 30.5 million iPhones over the next four years
Most logical conclusion we can get from the news is:
Sprint committed to 30 million iPhone for the next 4 years in exchange for Apple to build the iPhone that's compatible to Sprint's 3G/4G infrastructure.
While this kind of revolution would be great for consumers, it would suck for Apple. The entities that currently pay 2/3 of every iPhone dollar that Apple gets are the carriers worldwide, and this would screw them and thus hurt Apple. Not going to happen.
It's a move I think Apple has to make eventually. The carriers are their biggest barrier to market dominance. The question is when and how.
It's a move I think Apple has to make eventually. The carriers are their biggest barrier to market dominance. The question is when and how.
Pardon me? It sounded like you said that 'the cellular network providers are Apple's biggest hurdle in establishing market dominance in the market for cellular phones.'
Comments
Google Stocks has their market cap at $8.17 billion at end of day. How much revenue and profit are bringing in? (will look up later)
While you're at it, check out their debt.
Mmmm.... who at Apple could have negotiated a deal like that?
...Wonder what kind of precedent it will set?
I wonder what kind of commission he/she got.
I wonder what kind of commission he/she got.
He got a million shares of apple stock.
Edit: that's for the next 10 years of work.
- this exclusivity is just a matter of where LTE is at the moment. Nothing to do with Sprint itself.
- the 30.5M phone commitment on the other hand has got a lot to do with Sprint. Apple does not want to invest in developing a WiMAX phone unless there is some confidence that there will be enough units sold to justify the investment.
- for those who think 30.5M units over 4Y is no big deal, remember, this implies that either Sprint will have somewhere around 40% of it's network on the iPhone in 4Y time. This is a big deal, as there is no way Sprint can know today that there will not be a better Android phone over the next 4Y. The androids are already there in terms of being able to compete with the iPhone - and if there are phones that are as good as the iPhone it is tough to get 40% of the sprint network on the iPhone. And this has to happen in an environment where Apple is dropping prices on it's lineup aggressively at other carriers.
- from Sprint's perspective, this was the only way to get the iPhone 5.
- the only part of this story that is really interesting is that we will see 2 models - a 4S and a 5. The 5 will be Sprint only for the first 6 months. Or till Apple is ready with LTE.
- to reduce the dissatisfaction from having released a marginally changed phone after over 13 months, expect to see a fairly big price cut on the 4S. And expect massive volumes. Apple is targeting over 30M phones this holiday season!
- after the iPad experience, Apple has learnt that they should take advantage of their volumes and supply chain efficiency to lower prices of their flagship products to a level where the competitors just cannot compete profitably. This is the only way for Apple to have a marketshare edge over Android.
- it is clear that Apple wants not just profitshare and mindshare, but also marketshare, and will be willing to give up their margins to regain marketshare.
- this is possibly the biggest change in attitude shown by post-Jobs Apple. And rightfully so - when the CEO is an expert at operations, you have to expect this sort of change in Apple.
- I believe that the new Apple will prove to be an even more stronger player and others will find it difficult to compete. Earlier Apple was willing to leave a few chips on the table - the new Apple will take no prisoners.
- this might prove to have legal and anti trust implications over time. But for now, enjoy the ride.
In spite of the ludicrousy of the idea that Sprint would have the iPhone5 exclusively for four years I do think it sounds logical.
Since the introduction of the iPhone it became immediately clear that mobile phone services were about to change drastically. First the iPhone introduced Visual Voicemail. A replacement for a succesful service then provided by carriers as an add on for which you had to pay extra. Visual Voicemail actually brought the data to your phone, which could be done by wireless connections as wel...
Then came the apps.. such as WhatsApp diminishing lucrative SMS services.
And Skype was among them, artificially prohibited on 3G networks but clearly capable in delivering mobile telephony at a fraction of the cost. At a certain point the iPod Touch became a serious alternative for having low cost telecommunication through local wireless networks.
Now... my guess is that the future of mobile telephony is internet only. Sure we need frequencies for that, but as long as carriers are not willing to ditch lucrative old fashioned services, Apple is not capable of innovating towards their (I guess unknown) vision.
So in order to improve this it might be an excellent strategy to team up with a carrier who has the guts and despair to innovate alongside Apple, who is large enough to gain traction and put competition in quality service back again for the top carriers. I'd say Apple single handedly is protecting competitiveness among the largest carriers. And I wish Sprint success in their desperate but bold jump back in the race. They might prove to be Apple worthy partners really innovating the telcom industry.
Good grief, what exactly do you think this thing is if not a cellular phone?
If you think it is logical to tie your latest, certainly hottest handset to the carrier tied for dead last in market share, while alienating huge numbers of your customers AND your carrier partners, then I have a bridge in Brooklyn i'd like to sell you.
Man, it defies logic! You said it sounds logical - how?
"Well, uh, see... if you assume that the cellular market is really dying instead of expanding at a huge rate... and, uh, you assume that the iPhone 5 isn't really a cell phone, see... but some sort of totaly new ... thingy... that isn't a cell phone but that represents a totally new vision, and you sortof assume that Sprint was the only cell network with the guts to sell a product that undermines their own business.... then see it makes great sense to go exclusive with them, see, because they want to partner with you to change the whole world, and its totally logical."
Are you sure you thought this through all the way?
- this deal is for a 6 month exclusivity for the first 4G iPhone. Apple wants to release a 4G model, but the state of the LTE chipset ecosystem, battery life, cost, etc are not yet at a level where Apple can release an LTE iPhone now. Rather than wait a year for LTE to get there, Apple decided to make a phone for Sprint using WiMAX.
- this exclusivity is just a matter of where LTE is at the moment. Nothing to do with Sprint itself.
- the 30.5M phone commitment on the other hand has got a lot to do with Sprint. Apple does not want to invest in developing a WiMAX phone unless there is some confidence that there will be enough units sold to justify the investment.
- for those who think 30.5M units over 4Y is no big deal, remember, this implies that either Sprint will have somewhere around 40% of it's network on the iPhone in 4Y time. This is a big deal, as there is no way Sprint can know today that there will not be a better Android phone over the next 4Y. The androids are already there in terms of being able to compete with the iPhone - and if there are phones that are as good as the iPhone it is tough to get 40% of the sprint network on the iPhone. And this has to happen in an environment where Apple is dropping prices on it's lineup aggressively at other carriers.
- from Sprint's perspective, this was the only way to get the iPhone 5.
- the only part of this story that is really interesting is that we will see 2 models - a 4S and a 5. The 5 will be Sprint only for the first 6 months. Or till Apple is ready with LTE.
- to reduce the dissatisfaction from having released a marginally changed phone after over 13 months, expect to see a fairly big price cut on the 4S. And expect massive volumes. Apple is targeting over 30M phones this holiday season!
- after the iPad experience, Apple has learnt that they should take advantage of their volumes and supply chain efficiency to lower prices of their flagship products to a level where the competitors just cannot compete profitably. This is the only way for Apple to have a marketshare edge over Android.
- it is clear that Apple wants not just profitshare and mindshare, but also marketshare, and will be willing to give up their margins to regain marketshare.
- this is possibly the biggest change in attitude shown by post-Jobs Apple. And rightfully so - when the CEO is an expert at operations, you have to expect this sort of change in Apple.
- I believe that the new Apple will prove to be an even more stronger player and others will find it difficult to compete. Earlier Apple was willing to leave a few chips on the table - the new Apple will take no prisoners.
- this might prove to have legal and anti trust implications over time. But for now, enjoy the ride.
I disagree with virtually every point you made.
First, I think it would be completely foolish of Apple to risk alienating current carrier partners AND customers. If they did this, it would A) make carriers angry by inducing their customers to switch to another carrier and it would
Second, 30 million iPhones over a four year period isn't actually that big a deal, from an Apple perspective. Worldwide iPhone sales are currently pegged at around 80 million a year and growing. In a 4 year period, that's 320 million units.
You are arguing that a less than 10% bump in distribution yearly would be enough to cause Apple to compromise its core business in the US - it just makes no sense. It also makes ZERO sense from the perspective you are actually arguing - that it is about volume. If it were about volume, Apple would clearly NOT want to have any period of exclusivity with Sprint, because ultimately it would simply reduce sales through their other carrier partners.
Only one part of this story has any chance at all of being true, In my opinion: that Sprint had to agree to a 30.5 million phone volume over four years in order to get the phone.
Doesn't Sarbanes-Oxley, legislation he supported, require he use a RIM-job?
Umm... he was not in the Senate when sox legislation was passed in 2002.
Finally some common sense.
Umm... he was not in the Senate when sox legislation was passed in 2002.
Didn't say authored, co-authored, voted for... The justice department he now oversees has and does support the 2002 flavor of S.O. and fought to keep it whole.
Edit: welcome to the forums. Obama is lurking over in http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...hreadid=133439 . Come say Hi!
Well, the WSJ as well as Sprints cheif are now confirming the deal. It's a good deal for Apple's already flush bottom line but is good for the customer loyalty they so often benefit from? If Sprint is the only carrier this holiday season to get the new styalized iPhone body, then this becomes Apples long term problem. Tbose of us who have been always looking to Apple for fair treatment of their early adopters, will (and should) begin to question their integrity as a company.
Finally some common sense.
Ok, first of all, the only deal being 'confirmed' is that Sprint bet the company on an agreement to purchase 30.5 million iPhones over the next four years, NOT that Sprint has some sort of goofy exclusivity for it.
Really, can we separate fact from fiction here just a little bit?
Just maybe iPhone 4S = 4Sprint, while AT&T and Verizon will get iPhone 5.
Its a nice thought, though its wishful thinking I believe.
Ok, first of all, the only deal being 'confirmed' is that Sprint bet the company on an agreement to purchase 30.5 million iPhones over the next four years
Is THAT even confirmed at all?
Some web sources are saying Sprint has exclusivity. I call BS on that.
If it is for a WiMax iPhone they might have exclusivity. Interesting to see if they get a WiMax phone or a CDMA phone.
Personally I think if Sprint does nothing it is a riskier move. They are doing what they need to do.
If it is for a WiMax iPhone they might have exclusivity.
Of course they would. No one else on the planet was stupid enough to build a WiMAX network.
Sprint committed to 30 million iPhone for the next 4 years in exchange for Apple to build the iPhone that's compatible to Sprint's 3G/4G infrastructure.
iPhone that's compatible to Sprint's 3G/4G infrastructure.
Apple won't be building a WiMAX iPhone?
Sprint committed to 30 million iPhone
And is that even confirmed yet? Do we know that?
While this kind of revolution would be great for consumers, it would suck for Apple. The entities that currently pay 2/3 of every iPhone dollar that Apple gets are the carriers worldwide, and this would screw them and thus hurt Apple. Not going to happen.
It's a move I think Apple has to make eventually. The carriers are their biggest barrier to market dominance. The question is when and how.
It's a move I think Apple has to make eventually. The carriers are their biggest barrier to market dominance. The question is when and how.
Pardon me? It sounded like you said that 'the cellular network providers are Apple's biggest hurdle in establishing market dominance in the market for cellular phones.'
Think about that, just a little.