you are wrong, they would absolutely love to have a single model people love and cant make enough of. They are interested in maximizing return on investment which yields higher profits. Even better if that model has very high margins, like an SUV or a luxury car.
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit
What's your point?
---
I was going to say something to him but I wasn't sure what he was trying to say.
Hell... if Toyota could sell more of one model of the Lexus than Toyota Corollas it would pee its pants daily... if a company wore pants and could pee.
My point is that by itself, volume of a model sold doesn't tell the whole story. Sure, any company would love to sell any product in massive volumes. They would especially love to sell a high margin product in massive volumes. But they're working with market conditions and know that they can sell high volumes of their low-end vehicles and lower volumes of their high-end vehicles.
While the iPhone on the higher end of phones (along with other manufacturers top smart-phones), it's not one of the high-ticket, low volume product. I'm not saying they're not making good margin on the phones - nor the opposite - I'm just saying it's clear that they're selling them in high volumes and that they are a lower value product compared to other high-ticket items.
The numbers and 'facts' are all about how you spin it - others might say that by smart phone OS market share, Android is dominating and no-one can catch up. We've seen it over and over: 'iPhone dominates all Smart Phone Models', 'Android dominates Smart Phone OS Marketshare'; 'AMOLED preferred 2 to 1 in X situation', 'IPS / Retina preferred in Y situation'; 'Macs dominate unique desktop model sales', 'Windows dominates desktop OS market'.
The comparisons go on. It's all about how it's spun. The bottom line is products and companies each have their fits / markets. Apple seems to have found themselves in recent years with mobile devices... starting with the iPod and moving into the iPhone / iPad. That success is having a bleed-over effect into the laptop/desktop market for them and their stock and overall profitability show for it.
That doesn't mean that every other product or company out there sucks... to each their own.
Funny how you fandroids haul out the reviews when it suits you... but creatively fail to notice that ip4 is the best selling handset on every network where it is sold . . .
Is it? I dunno, but I personally suspect the 3GS may be outselling the 4 at ATT. As for "every network where it is sold", are you referring only to North America? Agree that it's the single most popular smartphone in the world, but Android competitors are often sold on a just a single carrier, particularly in North America where they're all unique, whereas the iPhone 4 is available across a 100 or more (give or take a few).
My point is that by itself, volume of a model sold doesn't tell the whole story. Sure, any company would love to sell any product in massive volumes. They would especially love to sell a high margin product in massive volumes. But they're working with market conditions and know that they can sell high volumes of their low-end vehicles and lower volumes of their high-end vehicles.
While the iPhone on the higher end of phones (along with other manufacturers top smart-phones), it's not one of the high-ticket, low volume product. I'm not saying they're not making good margin on the phones - nor the opposite - I'm just saying it's clear that they're selling them in high volumes and that they are a lower value product compared to other high-ticket items.
The numbers and 'facts' are all about how you spin it - others might say that by smart phone OS market share, Android is dominating and no-one can catch up. We've seen it over and over: 'iPhone dominates all Smart Phone Models', 'Android dominates Smart Phone OS Marketshare'; 'AMOLED preferred 2 to 1 in X situation', 'IPS / Retina preferred in Y situation'; 'Macs dominate unique desktop model sales', 'Windows dominates desktop OS market'.
The comparisons go on. It's all about how it's spun. The bottom line is products and companies each have their fits / markets. Apple seems to have found themselves in recent years with mobile devices... starting with the iPod and moving into the iPhone / iPad. That success is having a bleed-over effect into the laptop/desktop market for them and their stock and overall profitability show for it.
That doesn't mean that every other product or company out there sucks... to each their own.
I think you were reading way way too much into my comment.
Most of the comments I've read since yesterday, as well as this missive from Samsung, appear to miss Apple's point and purpose.
Apple has never been about out-speccing the competition. They deliver products that are innovative only in how Apple upgrades the user experience of already established technologies. Then they try to add a few features that truly stand out to differentiate the overall experience of their products.
This is not a new strategy, and has been in place at least since the late-90's return of SJ.
iMac - Didn't outspec, just delivered an easy to use and set up desktop running Mac OS. Wildly successful.
iPod - Hardly the first MP3 player, but the first to offer library-sized storage. Again, using established techs of MP3 players and HDs to deliver outstanding user experience. Wildly successful.
iPhone - Not the first smartphone, nor the first touchscreen smartphone. No apps or camera. Slow 2G network. Great customer sat ratings due to outstanding user experience. Wildly successful.
Every subsequent iPhone - Out specced by at least 1 other smartphone on the market in some manner. Cust sat and retention rates outperform any other smartphone by at least 10 points. 3GS, introduced more than 2 years ago, still outselling any single handset other than iPhone 4. All wildly successful.
Now let's take a look at the new iPhone 4S. Out specced by competition in screen size and 4G connectivity most notably. Note that this was the case with iPhone 4, which, as stated, has cust sat rating far outperforming any other phone on the market.
User experience: All apps designed specifically for both size and resolution of iPhone screen. Longest stated battery life of any phone on market. iOS 5 and improvements (again, refer to cust sat numbers vs. Android). Siri (see below).
Siri - Single biggest feature addition to iPhone 4S and a significant upgrade to the user experience. If this delivers on its promise, it easily outperforms any voice command app or service currently on the market. Again, innovation through outstanding delivery of already-existing tech.
Long term - For those surprised and disappointed by this update, I point you to the history of the iPhone 3GS. In 2 years, when iOS 7 (or whichever #) rolls out, how likely that it will require a dual-core processor or simply the processing power of the A5? Meaning that iOS 7 may very well require the 4S to work fully (just like the iOS 4 line of demarcation between 3G and 3GS).
If you currently have a iPhone 4, you may not want a 4S. That's fine. Wait for the 5 or go Android if you think that will deliver a better overall experience. Considering the cust retention rates, cust sat, and the anecdotal evidence in my office (3 Android to iPhone converts in past year - 2 also now have iPads, 1 Android to iPhone future convert will be getting 4S, 0 iPhone to Android converts ever), I will offer the hypothesis that anyone who decides to switch because of a perceived lack in the 4S will be more than made up for by the continuing converts from Android. Further, I suspect that the 4S will, over the next year, outsell every single Android phone and will continue to far outperform in cust sat ratings, just like the iPhone 4, and the 3GS, and the 3G, and the iPhone.
I sense a pattern. The same one that led to Apple having the largest market cap in the world at points this year. The same one that led to Apple have a larger cash reserve than the US govt (though that may not be viewed as any great feat). The same one that led to Apple pleasing more actual customers than any other computer or phone manufacturer in the past decade.
P.S. I will be pre-ordering 4S's for myself and my wife (currently have 3G's) and I cannot wait to use Siri and iCloud.
The eye sees 24 FPS, the brain sees those 60 FPS. I don't think anyone needs a lesson on the benefits of having more FPS for more fluid and natural videos.
reference to the 60fps your brain sees would be interesting.. can you provide that? I'll never heard that one before.
btw, one of the primary reasons for 60fps to do deinterlacing to make the picture clearer. its got nothing to do with brain interpretation to my knowledge.
Most of the comments I've read since yesterday, as well as this missive from Samsung, appear to miss Apple's point and purpose.
Apple has never been about out-speccing the competition. They deliver products that are innovative only in how Apple upgrades the user experience of already established technologies. Then they try to add a few features that truly stand out to differentiate the overall experience of their products.
This is not a new strategy, and has been in place at least since the late-90's return of SJ.
iMac - Didn't outspec, just delivered an easy to use and set up desktop running Mac OS. Wildly successful.
iPod - Hardly the first MP3 player, but the first to offer library-sized storage. Again, using established techs of MP3 players and HDs to deliver outstanding user experience. Wildly successful.
iPhone - Not the first smartphone, nor the first touchscreen smartphone. No apps or camera. Slow 2G network. Great customer sat ratings due to outstanding user experience. Wildly successful.
Every subsequent iPhone - Out specced by at least 1 other smartphone on the market in some manner. Cust sat and retention rates outperform any other smartphone by at least 10 points. 3GS, introduced more than 2 years ago, still outselling any single handset other than iPhone 4. All wildly successful.
Now let's take a look at the new iPhone 4S. Out specced by competition in screen size and 4G connectivity most notably. Note that this was the case with iPhone 4, which, as stated, has cust sat rating far outperforming any other phone on the market.
User experience: All apps designed specifically for both size and resolution of iPhone screen. Longest stated battery life of any phone on market. iOS 5 and improvements (again, refer to cust sat numbers vs. Android). Siri (see below).
Siri - Single biggest feature addition to iPhone 4S and a significant upgrade to the user experience. If this delivers on its promise, it easily outperforms any voice command app or service currently on the market. Again, innovation through outstanding delivery of already-existing tech.
Long term - For those surprised and disappointed by this update, I point you to the history of the iPhone 3GS. In 2 years, when iOS 7 (or whichever #) rolls out, how likely that it will require a dual-core processor or simply the processing power of the A5? Meaning that iOS 7 may very well require the 4S to work fully (just like the iOS 4 line of demarcation between 3G and 3GS).
If you currently have a iPhone 4, you may not want a 4S. That's fine. Wait for the 5 or go Android if you think that will deliver a better overall experience. Considering the cust retention rates, cust sat, and the anecdotal evidence in my office (3 Android to iPhone converts in past year - 2 also now have iPads, 1 Android to iPhone future convert will be getting 4S, 0 iPhone to Android converts ever), I will offer the hypothesis that anyone who decides to switch because of a perceived lack in the 4S will be more than made up for by the continuing converts from Android. Further, I suspect that the 4S will, over the next year, outsell every single Android phone and will continue to far outperform in cust sat ratings, just like the iPhone 4, and the 3GS, and the 3G, and the iPhone.
I sense a pattern. The same one that led to Apple having the largest market cap in the world at points this year. The same one that led to Apple have a larger cash reserve than the US govt (though that may not be viewed as any great feat). The same one that led to Apple pleasing more actual customers than any other computer or phone manufacturer in the past decade.
P.S. I will be pre-ordering 4S's for myself and my wife (currently have 3G's) and I cannot wait to use Siri and iCloud.
Did you actually read what you wrote? Let me point it out for you... See highlighted above....
So Android is first then Apple plays catchup! Thanks for pointing that out for us......
Wow, the hoo-haa surrounding Apple is tremendous! If you follow Apple's doings closely, you will see time and again that they will hold off implementing a whiz bang feature because they haven't POLISHED it yet. That's what the spec war people are slow to catch on to. If they could get over the, the, is it jealousy? If they were to get the Apple product next time, they might see that indeed it's not got the super duper spec, YET, but the device as a whole works in a well integrated way. You aren't fighting competing features, rather you are holding in your hands a thing of sublime functionality. 'it just works' is one of Apple's bylines for a reason. Yes, it is so well thought out even grandpa can use it, so there's one more customer group.
Apple had the tablet on the drawing board for a DECADE (see patents), but did not bring it out until they thought it was ready, then, chose to scale it to phone size because that's what their well researched opinion was.
So, be a shallow bling person and buy on that list of specs. Go right ahead. Japan used to have cellphones that had TV reception on them years ago but they were complex and had spotty reception. People bought electronics to brag the spec list, I read that in the WSJ, it was a funny article about how people couldn't even use the features because they were so hard to figure out. Japan is now coming around to the Apple interface. They are, after all, the original 'minimalist' culture in design aesthetics, so it's natural they would appreciate a clear and direct device.
There's more to life than a spec sheet.
The most powerful rule for design these days is ' don't waste the users time'.
This is where Microsoft has always failed, IMHO, miserably. If only Macs were in the workplace, there would be a new spike in worker productivity. So many times have i seen workers trying to follow Microsoft Office, etc. instructions to do a simple thing only to find out it doesn't really work. This is the genesis of my very good guess that Apple would rebound one day, because I came home to our Macs and saw the great difference in ease of use.
I'm not a mobile phone buyer but I'd go with the Samsung over the iPhone 4S. It has features I really like. I like the bigger screen. I especially like the removable battery. Removing the battery is the only way to prevent tracking of your movements. If Apple would release Facetime and let it become a standard in the industry it could be used on all phones.
It would be great if Samsung could dump the phone component of it's product and just have it compete with the iPod Touch. That is what I want to buy. I don't need a portable phone. Life was fine before them and it is still fine. I can wait to get messages on my answering machine. They'll be there when I get home.
I'm not a mobile phone buyer but I'd go with the Samsung over the iPhone 4S. It has features I really like. I like the bigger screen. I especially like the removable battery. Removing the battery is the only way to prevent tracking of your movements. If Apple would release Facetime and let it become a standard in the industry it could be used on all phones.
It would be great if Samsung could dump the phone component of it's product and just have it compete with the iPod Touch. That is what I want to buy. I don't need a portable phone. Life was fine before them and it is still fine. I can wait to get messages on my answering machine. They'll be there when I get home.
So, Samsung's specs have convinced you to continue not buying a cell phone? Every marketers dream...
He may not agree with you, he may be obviously pro-Android...but he is hardly a troll.
My definition? An individual who voluntarily joins discussions and not only fails to materially contribute to said discussions but repeatedly expresses thinly-veiled contempt for the community of which the discussion groups are a part of.
I've come across a number of posts from this individual, not one of which (that I have had the opportunity to read, in any case) constructively advances any discussion. Furthermore, understandably sarcastic remarks aside, this individual has expressed a blanket disdain for the AppleInsider community on multiple occasions. Repeated comments like this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaxyTab
Let me guess, the AI consensus will be...
or this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaxyTab
Hopefully this will educate some but I guess it will be ignored by most.
only demonstrates contempt for the community as a whole, and is not constructive.
Simply put, almost every posting I have seen from this individual has been negative, dismissive or attempted to dispute another posters statement to no constructive end. Being contrary is not the same thing as discussing a counterpoint. So, with that said, since my observation shows this individual (whether intentionally or as a result of consistently failing to express themselves properly) is by definition "trolling" (in other words, baiting or luring), I therefore dub them "troll".
To the topic at hand, and the reason for my initial comment, this individual cherry-picked a single tounge-in-cheek statement from the middle of a larger comment to attempt to dismiss someone else' <opinion> on the size of smartphones, particularly some Android-based models. GalaxyTab conveniently chose to ignore the additional statement made: "I think that it would be cool if Apple came out with an iPhone nano." and made the simple blanket derisive statement that "The lengths some of you lot will go to to defend the 3.5 inch screen on the iPhone is laughable.".
So ya, "hardly a troll".
Feel free to tell me why I'm wrong, a hypocrite, etc...
Your honesty is refreshing. Everyone from hipster kids to Grandma is happy with Apple products. They aim straight for the sweet spot in the market, and that sweet spot is NOT the high end.
Is this a criticism? That Apple consumers are happy with Apple products? And that those consumers include people of all walks of life from hipster kids to Grandma?
"They aim straight for the sweet spot in the market"
Another way to say this: "Apple believes in capitalism."
"and that sweet spot is NOT the high end."
I'm curious, if the 'sweet spot' includes 'Everyone from hipster kids to Grandma', who exactly is the high end? Pre-teens? Great-grandmas? Technically, Apple products have been shown to provide high value to infants to pre-teens, as well as to the blind, autistic, and disabled community. So their 'sweet spot' actually consists of: human beings. I am forced to assume that your high-end must then refer to the next stage in human evolution. Which means that Android's cornered the X-Men market, so they've got that going for them, which is nice.
How cute. The Galaxy Tab is preaching to Apple about how products and product launches should go. What's next, a webOS critique of iOS 5? A Vista critique of Lion?
When your only argument is a marketing screen cap, I will utilize an ad hominem argument to refute it. Your username severely undercuts any validity your observations may have. Your use of a screen cap as an argument has no validity to begin with.
The screen on the Nexus S is very nice, but it's not a Super AMOLED Plus like the new superphones have.
Old-style screens like the small Retina display and some of the SA screens, like the one on your old Nexus are great - but not exactly cutting edge any more. Personally, I think that the improved contrast of the new screens makes for a better experience. Resolution has its advantages as well. Once Apple releases a normal sized screen with it beautiful high-rez DPI count, it will once again be a contender. Maybe next spring?
So, by your inference, Apple is not currently a contender? With the sharpest screen currently available, they are not a contender because that screen lacks between .5" and 1" of diagonal space? I wouldn't kick a bigger iPhone screen out of bed, so to speak, but to claim the Retina Display is not currently a contender is simply not true.
Anecdotal note: I have yet to see a screen that looks better than the Retina Display. I certainly haven't seen all Android phones, but they invariable look to me like normal displays, just bigger. Every time I see the Retina Display, I'm taken aback by the clarity and resolution. I'll take sharper over bigger in this case.
I'll take cust sat numbers over an internet poll any day. No Android phone is within 10 points of the iPhone. The iPhone 3GS currently outsells every single Android phone. Android is not preferred over iOS according to phone owners.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kresh
I never heard any stories about Microsoft employees going to a persons private residence accompanied by the police and either intentionally or not causing the home owner to believe the entire group were the police and searching a private residence.
I did hear stories about Microsoft abusing their market position, kind of like Apple forcing Sprint to take a $20 billion life or death gamble to gain access to their product. You don't think Sprint volunteered to accept terms like this do you?
I may have missed all of the stories about Microsoft contractors abusing their employees so that they jumped out of windows (no pun intended) due to draconian work environments.
I am not going to write a book, but the list goes on and on, and by the way you are holding it wrong!
So, the reason that Apple has become worse than Microsoft are: working with the police, utilizing capitalism, and contracting with a draconian Chinese plant? The Foxconn argument might hold water if it wasn't also producing products for other vendors like HP, which runs which OS?
I've never been truly anti-MS the way some Apple fans have, and if you want to dislike Apple, that's certainly your prerogative, but I do not buy your argument that Apple is worse than MS ever was.
Someone raise your hand if you own two batteries for your phone, or know where to buy them officially (as in not chinese and/or off of ebay).
Never seen a battery pack in the shops, never seen them for sale on the manufactures site and when I took an LG phone with a removable battery in to get the battery replaced they STILL took the phone off of me because they didn't stock batteries in the shop. Since when has a removable battery been an advantage?
The only time I've ever seen someone remove a battery is to perform a hard reset. ... I guess I'm missing out on that feature.
well good thing phones with 5-7 inch screens aren't out (or marketed as phones) huh?
Remember the 5-inch Dell Streak? Ya, they tried to push that dog as a phone. Straight from dell.com:
Quote:
Facebook®, Twitter?, Gmail, a phone call ? however you like to stay connected1 the Streak is a full-function 3G phone with IM and SMS/text capabilities, plus you can take photos for sharing using the rear-facing camera with dual-LED flash. Integrated real-time Facebook and Flickr® upload abilities put your photos online in no time.
So, what were you saying about
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz
...being a smart ass.
?
However, the point is valid, in that there's not really a market for 5+ inch screens on phones.
The whole point of the screen-size sub-thread in this topic is that smartphone screens are getting too big (for the average consumer, every individual will have their preferences), and therefore the device as a whole is getting too big. The exact threshold where "big" becomes "too big" is a gray area, but just looking at what phones are actually selling, it's looks like that they can't get much bigger without consumer pushback (5-inch Dell streak being a good example - at least they didn't try to pretend the 7-inch was a 'phone').
The iPhone seems to have hit a pretty sweet spot for device size, perhaps an edge-to-edge display might be viable for the marketplace, if the basic measurements for the device aren't increased. A number of Android manufacturers however are trying to push the "on paper" numbers advantage and trading that for real-world ergonomics/functionality, on the hopes that they can grab a potential buyer with a spec-sheet advantage. The problem with that is that, as per the repeated numbers we've seen on customer satisfaction and retention for iOS vs. Android phones, fewer Android phone buyers are as satisfied with their devices and fewer are repeat buyers, even if many can't even quantify why, other than it "just didn't feel right".
Comments
you are wrong, they would absolutely love to have a single model people love and cant make enough of. They are interested in maximizing return on investment which yields higher profits. Even better if that model has very high margins, like an SUV or a luxury car.
What's your point?
---
I was going to say something to him but I wasn't sure what he was trying to say.
Hell... if Toyota could sell more of one model of the Lexus than Toyota Corollas it would pee its pants daily... if a company wore pants and could pee.
My point is that by itself, volume of a model sold doesn't tell the whole story. Sure, any company would love to sell any product in massive volumes. They would especially love to sell a high margin product in massive volumes. But they're working with market conditions and know that they can sell high volumes of their low-end vehicles and lower volumes of their high-end vehicles.
While the iPhone on the higher end of phones (along with other manufacturers top smart-phones), it's not one of the high-ticket, low volume product. I'm not saying they're not making good margin on the phones - nor the opposite - I'm just saying it's clear that they're selling them in high volumes and that they are a lower value product compared to other high-ticket items.
The numbers and 'facts' are all about how you spin it - others might say that by smart phone OS market share, Android is dominating and no-one can catch up. We've seen it over and over: 'iPhone dominates all Smart Phone Models', 'Android dominates Smart Phone OS Marketshare'; 'AMOLED preferred 2 to 1 in X situation', 'IPS / Retina preferred in Y situation'; 'Macs dominate unique desktop model sales', 'Windows dominates desktop OS market'.
The comparisons go on. It's all about how it's spun. The bottom line is products and companies each have their fits / markets. Apple seems to have found themselves in recent years with mobile devices... starting with the iPod and moving into the iPhone / iPad. That success is having a bleed-over effect into the laptop/desktop market for them and their stock and overall profitability show for it.
That doesn't mean that every other product or company out there sucks... to each their own.
<!-- php buffer start --><code><span style="color: #000000">
<span style="color: #0000BB">Net Income in Millions </span><span style="color: #007700">(</span><span style="color: #0000BB">from 10</span><span style="color: #007700">-</span><span style="color: #0000BB">k</span><span style="color: #007700">)<br /> </span><span style="color: #0000BB">2010</span><span style="color: #007700">\</span><span style="color: #0000BB">t</span><span style="color: #007700">\</span><span style="color: #0000BB">t2009</span><span style="color: #007700">\</span><span style="color: #0000BB">t 2008<br />Apple </span><span style="color: #007700">$ </span><span style="color: #0000BB">14</span><span style="color: #007700">,</span><span style="color: #0000BB">013</span><span style="color: #007700">\</span><span style="color: #0000BB">t</span><span style="color: #007700">$ </span><span style="color: #0000BB">8</span><span style="color: #007700">,</span><span style="color: #0000BB">235</span><span style="color: #007700">\</span><span style="color: #0000BB">t</span><span style="color: #007700">$ </span><span style="color: #0000BB">6</span><span style="color: #007700">,</span><span style="color: #0000BB">119<br />Google </span><span style="color: #007700">$ </span><span style="color: #0000BB">8</span><span style="color: #007700">,</span><span style="color: #0000BB">505</span><span style="color: #007700">\</span><span style="color: #0000BB">t </span><span style="color: #007700">$ </span><span style="color: #0000BB">6</span><span style="color: #007700">,</span><span style="color: #0000BB">520</span><span style="color: #007700">\</span><span style="color: #0000BB">t</span><span style="color: #007700">$ </span><span style="color: #0000BB">4</span><span style="color: #007700">,</span><span style="color: #0000BB">227<br />Microsoft </span><span style="color: #007700">$ </span><span style="color: #0000BB">23</span><span style="color: #007700">,</span><span style="color: #0000BB">150</span><span style="color: #007700">\</span><span style="color: #0000BB">t</span><span style="color: #007700">$ </span><span style="color: #0000BB">18</span><span style="color: #007700">,</span><span style="color: #0000BB">760 </span><span style="color: #007700">$ </span><span style="color: #0000BB">14</span><span style="color: #007700">,</span><span style="color: #0000BB">569<br /><br /><br />EPS </span><span style="color: #007700">(</span><span style="color: #0000BB">from 10</span><span style="color: #007700">-</span><span style="color: #0000BB">k</span><span style="color: #007700">)<br /> </span><span style="color: #0000BB">2010</span><span style="color: #007700">\</span><span style="color: #0000BB">t 2009</span><span style="color: #007700">\</span><span style="color: #0000BB">t 2008<br />Apple </span><span style="color: #007700">$ </span><span style="color: #0000BB">15.41</span><span style="color: #007700">\</span><span style="color: #0000BB">t</span><span style="color: #007700">$ </span><span style="color: #0000BB">9.22</span><span style="color: #007700">\</span><span style="color: #0000BB">t </span><span style="color: #007700">$ </span><span style="color: #0000BB">6.94<br />Google </span><span style="color: #007700">$ </span><span style="color: #0000BB">26.69</span><span style="color: #007700">\</span><span style="color: #0000BB">t</span><span style="color: #007700">$ </span><span style="color: #0000BB">20.62</span><span style="color: #007700">\</span><span style="color: #0000BB">t</span><span style="color: #007700">$ </span><span style="color: #0000BB">13.46<br />Microsoft </span><span style="color: #007700">$ </span><span style="color: #0000BB">2.73</span><span style="color: #007700">\</span><span style="color: #0000BB">t </span><span style="color: #007700">$ </span><span style="color: #0000BB">2.13</span><span style="color: #007700">\</span><span style="color: #0000BB">t </span><span style="color: #007700">$ </span><span style="color: #0000BB">1.63
<br /></span>
</span>
Funny how you fandroids haul out the reviews when it suits you... but creatively fail to notice that ip4 is the best selling handset on every network where it is sold . . .
Is it? I dunno, but I personally suspect the 3GS may be outselling the 4 at ATT. As for "every network where it is sold", are you referring only to North America? Agree that it's the single most popular smartphone in the world, but Android competitors are often sold on a just a single carrier, particularly in North America where they're all unique, whereas the iPhone 4 is available across a 100 or more (give or take a few).
My point is that by itself, volume of a model sold doesn't tell the whole story. Sure, any company would love to sell any product in massive volumes. They would especially love to sell a high margin product in massive volumes. But they're working with market conditions and know that they can sell high volumes of their low-end vehicles and lower volumes of their high-end vehicles.
While the iPhone on the higher end of phones (along with other manufacturers top smart-phones), it's not one of the high-ticket, low volume product. I'm not saying they're not making good margin on the phones - nor the opposite - I'm just saying it's clear that they're selling them in high volumes and that they are a lower value product compared to other high-ticket items.
The numbers and 'facts' are all about how you spin it - others might say that by smart phone OS market share, Android is dominating and no-one can catch up. We've seen it over and over: 'iPhone dominates all Smart Phone Models', 'Android dominates Smart Phone OS Marketshare'; 'AMOLED preferred 2 to 1 in X situation', 'IPS / Retina preferred in Y situation'; 'Macs dominate unique desktop model sales', 'Windows dominates desktop OS market'.
The comparisons go on. It's all about how it's spun. The bottom line is products and companies each have their fits / markets. Apple seems to have found themselves in recent years with mobile devices... starting with the iPod and moving into the iPhone / iPad. That success is having a bleed-over effect into the laptop/desktop market for them and their stock and overall profitability show for it.
That doesn't mean that every other product or company out there sucks... to each their own.
I think you were reading way way too much into my comment.
Apple has never been about out-speccing the competition. They deliver products that are innovative only in how Apple upgrades the user experience of already established technologies. Then they try to add a few features that truly stand out to differentiate the overall experience of their products.
This is not a new strategy, and has been in place at least since the late-90's return of SJ.
iMac - Didn't outspec, just delivered an easy to use and set up desktop running Mac OS. Wildly successful.
iPod - Hardly the first MP3 player, but the first to offer library-sized storage. Again, using established techs of MP3 players and HDs to deliver outstanding user experience. Wildly successful.
iPhone - Not the first smartphone, nor the first touchscreen smartphone. No apps or camera. Slow 2G network. Great customer sat ratings due to outstanding user experience. Wildly successful.
Every subsequent iPhone - Out specced by at least 1 other smartphone on the market in some manner. Cust sat and retention rates outperform any other smartphone by at least 10 points. 3GS, introduced more than 2 years ago, still outselling any single handset other than iPhone 4. All wildly successful.
Now let's take a look at the new iPhone 4S. Out specced by competition in screen size and 4G connectivity most notably. Note that this was the case with iPhone 4, which, as stated, has cust sat rating far outperforming any other phone on the market.
User experience: All apps designed specifically for both size and resolution of iPhone screen. Longest stated battery life of any phone on market. iOS 5 and improvements (again, refer to cust sat numbers vs. Android). Siri (see below).
Siri - Single biggest feature addition to iPhone 4S and a significant upgrade to the user experience. If this delivers on its promise, it easily outperforms any voice command app or service currently on the market. Again, innovation through outstanding delivery of already-existing tech.
Long term - For those surprised and disappointed by this update, I point you to the history of the iPhone 3GS. In 2 years, when iOS 7 (or whichever #) rolls out, how likely that it will require a dual-core processor or simply the processing power of the A5? Meaning that iOS 7 may very well require the 4S to work fully (just like the iOS 4 line of demarcation between 3G and 3GS).
If you currently have a iPhone 4, you may not want a 4S. That's fine. Wait for the 5 or go Android if you think that will deliver a better overall experience. Considering the cust retention rates, cust sat, and the anecdotal evidence in my office (3 Android to iPhone converts in past year - 2 also now have iPads, 1 Android to iPhone future convert will be getting 4S, 0 iPhone to Android converts ever), I will offer the hypothesis that anyone who decides to switch because of a perceived lack in the 4S will be more than made up for by the continuing converts from Android. Further, I suspect that the 4S will, over the next year, outsell every single Android phone and will continue to far outperform in cust sat ratings, just like the iPhone 4, and the 3GS, and the 3G, and the iPhone.
I sense a pattern. The same one that led to Apple having the largest market cap in the world at points this year. The same one that led to Apple have a larger cash reserve than the US govt (though that may not be viewed as any great feat). The same one that led to Apple pleasing more actual customers than any other computer or phone manufacturer in the past decade.
P.S. I will be pre-ordering 4S's for myself and my wife (currently have 3G's) and I cannot wait to use Siri and iCloud.
The eye sees 24 FPS, the brain sees those 60 FPS. I don't think anyone needs a lesson on the benefits of having more FPS for more fluid and natural videos.
reference to the 60fps your brain sees would be interesting.. can you provide that? I'll never heard that one before.
btw, one of the primary reasons for 60fps to do deinterlacing to make the picture clearer. its got nothing to do with brain interpretation to my knowledge.
Most of the comments I've read since yesterday, as well as this missive from Samsung, appear to miss Apple's point and purpose.
Apple has never been about out-speccing the competition. They deliver products that are innovative only in how Apple upgrades the user experience of already established technologies. Then they try to add a few features that truly stand out to differentiate the overall experience of their products.
This is not a new strategy, and has been in place at least since the late-90's return of SJ.
iMac - Didn't outspec, just delivered an easy to use and set up desktop running Mac OS. Wildly successful.
iPod - Hardly the first MP3 player, but the first to offer library-sized storage. Again, using established techs of MP3 players and HDs to deliver outstanding user experience. Wildly successful.
iPhone - Not the first smartphone, nor the first touchscreen smartphone. No apps or camera. Slow 2G network. Great customer sat ratings due to outstanding user experience. Wildly successful.
Every subsequent iPhone - Out specced by at least 1 other smartphone on the market in some manner. Cust sat and retention rates outperform any other smartphone by at least 10 points. 3GS, introduced more than 2 years ago, still outselling any single handset other than iPhone 4. All wildly successful.
Now let's take a look at the new iPhone 4S. Out specced by competition in screen size and 4G connectivity most notably. Note that this was the case with iPhone 4, which, as stated, has cust sat rating far outperforming any other phone on the market.
User experience: All apps designed specifically for both size and resolution of iPhone screen. Longest stated battery life of any phone on market. iOS 5 and improvements (again, refer to cust sat numbers vs. Android). Siri (see below).
Siri - Single biggest feature addition to iPhone 4S and a significant upgrade to the user experience. If this delivers on its promise, it easily outperforms any voice command app or service currently on the market. Again, innovation through outstanding delivery of already-existing tech.
Long term - For those surprised and disappointed by this update, I point you to the history of the iPhone 3GS. In 2 years, when iOS 7 (or whichever #) rolls out, how likely that it will require a dual-core processor or simply the processing power of the A5? Meaning that iOS 7 may very well require the 4S to work fully (just like the iOS 4 line of demarcation between 3G and 3GS).
If you currently have a iPhone 4, you may not want a 4S. That's fine. Wait for the 5 or go Android if you think that will deliver a better overall experience. Considering the cust retention rates, cust sat, and the anecdotal evidence in my office (3 Android to iPhone converts in past year - 2 also now have iPads, 1 Android to iPhone future convert will be getting 4S, 0 iPhone to Android converts ever), I will offer the hypothesis that anyone who decides to switch because of a perceived lack in the 4S will be more than made up for by the continuing converts from Android. Further, I suspect that the 4S will, over the next year, outsell every single Android phone and will continue to far outperform in cust sat ratings, just like the iPhone 4, and the 3GS, and the 3G, and the iPhone.
I sense a pattern. The same one that led to Apple having the largest market cap in the world at points this year. The same one that led to Apple have a larger cash reserve than the US govt (though that may not be viewed as any great feat). The same one that led to Apple pleasing more actual customers than any other computer or phone manufacturer in the past decade.
P.S. I will be pre-ordering 4S's for myself and my wife (currently have 3G's) and I cannot wait to use Siri and iCloud.
just beautiful .. wow!
Did you actually read what you wrote? Let me point it out for you... See highlighted above....
So Android is first then Apple plays catchup! Thanks for pointing that out for us......
Wow, the hoo-haa surrounding Apple is tremendous! If you follow Apple's doings closely, you will see time and again that they will hold off implementing a whiz bang feature because they haven't POLISHED it yet. That's what the spec war people are slow to catch on to. If they could get over the, the, is it jealousy? If they were to get the Apple product next time, they might see that indeed it's not got the super duper spec, YET, but the device as a whole works in a well integrated way. You aren't fighting competing features, rather you are holding in your hands a thing of sublime functionality. 'it just works' is one of Apple's bylines for a reason. Yes, it is so well thought out even grandpa can use it, so there's one more customer group.
Apple had the tablet on the drawing board for a DECADE (see patents), but did not bring it out until they thought it was ready, then, chose to scale it to phone size because that's what their well researched opinion was.
So, be a shallow bling person and buy on that list of specs. Go right ahead. Japan used to have cellphones that had TV reception on them years ago but they were complex and had spotty reception. People bought electronics to brag the spec list, I read that in the WSJ, it was a funny article about how people couldn't even use the features because they were so hard to figure out. Japan is now coming around to the Apple interface. They are, after all, the original 'minimalist' culture in design aesthetics, so it's natural they would appreciate a clear and direct device.
There's more to life than a spec sheet.
The most powerful rule for design these days is ' don't waste the users time'.
This is where Microsoft has always failed, IMHO, miserably. If only Macs were in the workplace, there would be a new spike in worker productivity. So many times have i seen workers trying to follow Microsoft Office, etc. instructions to do a simple thing only to find out it doesn't really work. This is the genesis of my very good guess that Apple would rebound one day, because I came home to our Macs and saw the great difference in ease of use.
It would be great if Samsung could dump the phone component of it's product and just have it compete with the iPod Touch. That is what I want to buy. I don't need a portable phone. Life was fine before them and it is still fine. I can wait to get messages on my answering machine. They'll be there when I get home.
I especially like the removable battery. Removing the battery is the only way to prevent tracking of your movements. .
I'm not a mobile phone buyer but I'd go with the Samsung over the iPhone 4S. It has features I really like. I like the bigger screen. I especially like the removable battery. Removing the battery is the only way to prevent tracking of your movements. If Apple would release Facetime and let it become a standard in the industry it could be used on all phones.
It would be great if Samsung could dump the phone component of it's product and just have it compete with the iPod Touch. That is what I want to buy. I don't need a portable phone. Life was fine before them and it is still fine. I can wait to get messages on my answering machine. They'll be there when I get home.
So, Samsung's specs have convinced you to continue not buying a cell phone? Every marketers dream...
How do you define a troll?
He may not agree with you, he may be obviously pro-Android...but he is hardly a troll.
My definition? An individual who voluntarily joins discussions and not only fails to materially contribute to said discussions but repeatedly expresses thinly-veiled contempt for the community of which the discussion groups are a part of.
I've come across a number of posts from this individual, not one of which (that I have had the opportunity to read, in any case) constructively advances any discussion. Furthermore, understandably sarcastic remarks aside, this individual has expressed a blanket disdain for the AppleInsider community on multiple occasions. Repeated comments like this:
Let me guess, the AI consensus will be...
or this:
Hopefully this will educate some but I guess it will be ignored by most.
only demonstrates contempt for the community as a whole, and is not constructive.
Simply put, almost every posting I have seen from this individual has been negative, dismissive or attempted to dispute another posters statement to no constructive end. Being contrary is not the same thing as discussing a counterpoint. So, with that said, since my observation shows this individual (whether intentionally or as a result of consistently failing to express themselves properly) is by definition "trolling" (in other words, baiting or luring), I therefore dub them "troll".
To the topic at hand, and the reason for my initial comment, this individual cherry-picked a single tounge-in-cheek statement from the middle of a larger comment to attempt to dismiss someone else' <opinion> on the size of smartphones, particularly some Android-based models. GalaxyTab conveniently chose to ignore the additional statement made: "I think that it would be cool if Apple came out with an iPhone nano." and made the simple blanket derisive statement that "The lengths some of you lot will go to to defend the 3.5 inch screen on the iPhone is laughable.".
So ya, "hardly a troll".
Feel free to tell me why I'm wrong, a hypocrite, etc...
Your honesty is refreshing. Everyone from hipster kids to Grandma is happy with Apple products. They aim straight for the sweet spot in the market, and that sweet spot is NOT the high end.
Is this a criticism? That Apple consumers are happy with Apple products? And that those consumers include people of all walks of life from hipster kids to Grandma?
"They aim straight for the sweet spot in the market"
Another way to say this: "Apple believes in capitalism."
"and that sweet spot is NOT the high end."
I'm curious, if the 'sweet spot' includes 'Everyone from hipster kids to Grandma', who exactly is the high end? Pre-teens? Great-grandmas? Technically, Apple products have been shown to provide high value to infants to pre-teens, as well as to the blind, autistic, and disabled community. So their 'sweet spot' actually consists of: human beings. I am forced to assume that your high-end must then refer to the next stage in human evolution. Which means that Android's cornered the X-Men market, so they've got that going for them, which is nice.
October 11th. Remember that date.
This is how flagship products should be refined.
really? zzz...
Wow! Removable battery! //in 2011 we are still highlighting this?
Yes! Removing the battery is the only way to switch the alarm off, apparently.
October 11th. Remember that date.
This is how flagship products should be refined.
How cute. The Galaxy Tab is preaching to Apple about how products and product launches should go. What's next, a webOS critique of iOS 5? A Vista critique of Lion?
When your only argument is a marketing screen cap, I will utilize an ad hominem argument to refute it. Your username severely undercuts any validity your observations may have. Your use of a screen cap as an argument has no validity to begin with.
The screen on the Nexus S is very nice, but it's not a Super AMOLED Plus like the new superphones have.
Old-style screens like the small Retina display and some of the SA screens, like the one on your old Nexus are great - but not exactly cutting edge any more. Personally, I think that the improved contrast of the new screens makes for a better experience. Resolution has its advantages as well. Once Apple releases a normal sized screen with it beautiful high-rez DPI count, it will once again be a contender. Maybe next spring?
So, by your inference, Apple is not currently a contender? With the sharpest screen currently available, they are not a contender because that screen lacks between .5" and 1" of diagonal space? I wouldn't kick a bigger iPhone screen out of bed, so to speak, but to claim the Retina Display is not currently a contender is simply not true.
Anecdotal note: I have yet to see a screen that looks better than the Retina Display. I certainly haven't seen all Android phones, but they invariable look to me like normal displays, just bigger. Every time I see the Retina Display, I'm taken aback by the clarity and resolution. I'll take sharper over bigger in this case.
October 11th. Remember that date.
Why would I want a curved device?
Thats funny.....you are touting as Apple successes things that Android already has......
Sorry but even the pro Apple website polls at WSJ agree... Android OS is preferred over IOS.
http://online.wsj.com/community/grou...es-best-mobile
I'll take cust sat numbers over an internet poll any day. No Android phone is within 10 points of the iPhone. The iPhone 3GS currently outsells every single Android phone. Android is not preferred over iOS according to phone owners.
I never heard any stories about Microsoft employees going to a persons private residence accompanied by the police and either intentionally or not causing the home owner to believe the entire group were the police and searching a private residence.
I did hear stories about Microsoft abusing their market position, kind of like Apple forcing Sprint to take a $20 billion life or death gamble to gain access to their product. You don't think Sprint volunteered to accept terms like this do you?
I may have missed all of the stories about Microsoft contractors abusing their employees so that they jumped out of windows (no pun intended) due to draconian work environments.
I am not going to write a book, but the list goes on and on, and by the way you are holding it wrong!
So, the reason that Apple has become worse than Microsoft are: working with the police, utilizing capitalism, and contracting with a draconian Chinese plant? The Foxconn argument might hold water if it wasn't also producing products for other vendors like HP, which runs which OS?
I've never been truly anti-MS the way some Apple fans have, and if you want to dislike Apple, that's certainly your prerogative, but I do not buy your argument that Apple is worse than MS ever was.
Apart from one.
Removable battery.
Someone raise your hand if you own two batteries for your phone, or know where to buy them officially (as in not chinese and/or off of ebay).
Never seen a battery pack in the shops, never seen them for sale on the manufactures site and when I took an LG phone with a removable battery in to get the battery replaced they STILL took the phone off of me because they didn't stock batteries in the shop. Since when has a removable battery been an advantage?
The only time I've ever seen someone remove a battery is to perform a hard reset. ... I guess I'm missing out on that feature.
well good thing phones with 5-7 inch screens aren't out (or marketed as phones) huh?
Remember the 5-inch Dell Streak? Ya, they tried to push that dog as a phone. Straight from dell.com:
Facebook®, Twitter?, Gmail, a phone call ? however you like to stay connected1 the Streak is a full-function 3G phone with IM and SMS/text capabilities, plus you can take photos for sharing using the rear-facing camera with dual-LED flash. Integrated real-time Facebook and Flickr® upload abilities put your photos online in no time.
So, what were you saying about
...being a smart ass.
?
However, the point is valid, in that there's not really a market for 5+ inch screens on phones.
The whole point of the screen-size sub-thread in this topic is that smartphone screens are getting too big (for the average consumer, every individual will have their preferences), and therefore the device as a whole is getting too big. The exact threshold where "big" becomes "too big" is a gray area, but just looking at what phones are actually selling, it's looks like that they can't get much bigger without consumer pushback (5-inch Dell streak being a good example - at least they didn't try to pretend the 7-inch was a 'phone').
The iPhone seems to have hit a pretty sweet spot for device size, perhaps an edge-to-edge display might be viable for the marketplace, if the basic measurements for the device aren't increased. A number of Android manufacturers however are trying to push the "on paper" numbers advantage and trading that for real-world ergonomics/functionality, on the hopes that they can grab a potential buyer with a spec-sheet advantage. The problem with that is that, as per the repeated numbers we've seen on customer satisfaction and retention for iOS vs. Android phones, fewer Android phone buyers are as satisfied with their devices and fewer are repeat buyers, even if many can't even quantify why, other than it "just didn't feel right".