According to David Pogue of the NYTimes WP7 has a 30k deep app store. MS also has plenty of ecosystem for WP7. It's not as good as iOS, but it's surely better than Android.
What exactly was FAILED for?
30k app store, how many millions WP7 was sold in the last year? Because over 4 million iPhone 4S was sold in less than one week of its release. Get off your high horse and see the failure that windows phone is. Stop trying to coddle Microsoft/Nokia.
Specs and feature lists alone don't give an accurate picture of a product's quality. I thought that was common knowledge amongst Apple fans?
What can you review it on then? Cloner Windows Phone devices have been out for over a year, and Microsoft will not release sales numbers because they are that bad.
The OS is total garbage. The UI is horrible. The lock in to the proprietary Windows OS is terrible. The lock in to the equally bad BING/MSN/Live/Hotmail/whatever Microsoft is calling their failed online services this week is terrible. Why doesn't Microsoft allow people to change from the terrible BING search engine? I think we all the answer to that...everyone would use Google as it is so much better.
I'd suggest a review based on real world usage. That's what the big technology blogs like Engadget are doing. Maybe the Lumia 800 will turn out to be a worthless pile of garbage but this comparison tells us nothing.
I'm sure Nokia would lend DED a device if he asked for one.
What a big miss by Nokia and Microsoft. I can't believe this is "the effort", and its not even coming to the US until Q2. The crescendo of the iPhone 5 launch is going to completely swamp any launch effort here. The specs on the 800 are already a generation old
A big big miss. I don't see how Microsoft is going to gain share in 2012
I think it looks like a good phone and in the UK works out around £130 less than ab iPhone 4s, just a shame its not on o2.
Biggest problem Microsoft have is although there thinking of original ideas, there just going to be copied before the public realise it was them that came up with it. E.g. Camera button now on the iPhone, people hub now on android.
Potentially though this could be a turning point. Last year Microsoft did next to no advertising for wp7 and the generic phone shops haven't sold them until a couple of months ago. Now Nokia is actually doing some decent ads and more shops sell the phones. Admittedly you still don't see more than 2 models in any shop compared to 30 android devices, but its a start.
The OS is total garbage. The UI is horrible. The lock in to the proprietary Windows OS is terrible. The lock in to the equally bad BING/MSN/Live/Hotmail/whatever Microsoft is calling their failed online services this week is terrible. Why doesn't Microsoft allow people to change from the terrible BING search engine? I think we all the answer to that...everyone would use Google as it is so much better.
What else could he review?
If you're going to call something garbage, you should at least quantify your opinions with why. How's this different from your lock-in and proprietaryness with Apple? You're free to link any emails to the phone's Inbox. Maybe, just maybe, they chose not to offer Google probably because MS can better integrate Bing with their own phone OS? You've Bing search, Bing Map, Bing Voice, Bing Audio, Bing Vision, etc... all integrated into the core OS. People complain when MS creates an integrated system with using their own technologies, and then complain that MS isn't integrated as Apple when they don't have such feature. Apple doesn't have a search business. It's in their best interest to use whatever options available (i.e. Google, Bing, Yahoo, etc...), and it was really ONLY introduced with iOS 4.
Apple doesn't have a search business. It's in their best interest to use whatever options available (i.e. Google, Bing, Yahoo, etc...), and it was really ONLY introduced with iOS 4.
Wrong. It's in Apples best interest to allow users to _choose_ what services they want to use rather than force people to only use their service. This is yet another reason Windows Phone is a total failure. No one in their right mind would want to be forced to use BING and all the google clone BING services.
Wrong. It's in Apples best interest to allow users to _choose_ what services they want to use rather than force people to only use their service. This is yet another reason Windows Phone is a total failure. No one in their right mind would want to be forced to use BING and all the google clone BING services.
Why is Microsoft against choice?
The only thing you cannot (currently) change is Bing default searching in the browser. It doesn't prohibit you from using www.google.com or download Google Search. Most of Apple's services are provided by third-party apps whereas most things in Windows Phone are integrated into the OS. If you don't want the integrated feature, then you can download an app to replace it. With iOS, you HAVE to download Shazam if you want to know what song is playing.
Google wrote all the apps for iOS. There's nothing to stop Google from writing apps for Windows Phone 7 OS. How long did it take Apple to approve Google Voice and Google Latitude? It was in the interest of their customers, right? They were rejected until pressure from FCC and the public forced Apple to approve.
MS is against choice just because you can't change the default browser search engine? Was Apple against choice too when it took them 4 years to add Bing as an option? And I also like a choice of running Flash too on my iPhone, but that's not going to happen anytime soon, if ever. Yes, Apple is full of choices.
Specs and feature lists alone don't give an accurate picture of a product's quality. I thought that was common knowledge amongst Apple fans?
Well aren't you the genius. The fact of the matter is that WP7 has been a huge failure and DED is simply pointing out that with WP7 married with the hardware specs of the new Nokia devices nothing is going to change as they just aren't competitive. He wasn't just calling out hardware specs but the whole system. What is it that you don't get? It seems pretty clear to everyone else...
actually, the UI has received nothing but praise from the community of tech bloggers.
Duh! That may be but WP has been a resounding failure for those that matter - consumers! Quite frankly, it is fashion based, not particularly appealing compared to the other players. In fact it looks like it was designed by someone with attention deficit disorder.
Nokia owns the market share globally. the fact they partnered with Microsoft has already been deemed a huge success for both companies.
What nonsense. The marriage has been deemed no such thing as "a huge success" as it hasn't worked yet. Further, in the interim, because of the timing and the way they announced it, it severely hurt their existing business as people quit buying their immediately obsolete symbian phones. Also, try to get your facts right. Nokia does not "own" the smartphone market globally. The only success they have had recently, to keep their market share from totally collapsing, is in low end feature phones in the rest of the world. They have dramatically lost the high end of the market.
Specs and feature lists alone don't give an accurate picture of a product's quality. I thought that was common knowledge amongst Apple fans?
First constructive post in this tread.
Strange how almost every post about non-Apple product starts with same-as-the-last-one parade of trolling, before people who actually have something to say chime in. I'm not saying everyone before your post trolled, but many did. Sad, really.
I feel very positive about Nokia 800. Have tried and liked WP7, and Zune Desktop is also much more to my liking than iTunes. In addition, devices looks nice - well built and different from other phones. Integration with 25GB of free SkyDrive is also nice, and I think it is only the beginning; after all, MS is software company, so doing cool things in software should be their thing... otherwise, otherwise, if they cannot bring the fight to other platforms on the software level, they are doomed - and for real. But from what I have seen this far, I am expecting to see integration between Windows phones, tablets, desktops and server products to catch up and possibly overtake Apple's platform in the next 2 years, more or less.
What nonsense. The marriage has been deemed no such thing as "a huge success" as it hasn't worked yet. Further, in the interim, because of the timing and the way they announced it, it severely hurt their existing business as people quit buying their immediately obsolete symbian phones. Also, try to get your facts right. Nokia does not "own" the smartphone market globally. The only success they have had recently, to keep their market share from totally collapsing, is in low end feature phones in the rest of the world. They have dramatically lost the high end of the market.
That depends how you look at it.
It is big success for MS as Nokia is first major manufacturer dedicated to MS platform - it is not a secret Samsung, HTC... were just "me, too" regarding WP7, putting most their efforts behind Android. Seeing Nokia, others might reconsider WP7 platform more seriously too.
And for Nokia, getting out of Symbian black hole and moving to modern platform is also success, though not as big as what MS achieved with this deal.
Is this going to bring financial success and return to competitiveness, for both Nokia and MS, remains to be seen; but regarding where they were, I think success it is that they both finally moved from that spot.
Well aren't you the genius. The fact of the matter is that WP7 has been a huge failure and DED is simply pointing out that with WP7 married with the hardware specs of the new Nokia devices nothing is going to change as they just aren't competitive. He wasn't just calling out hardware specs but the whole system. What is it that you don't get? It seems pretty clear to everyone else...
What DED didn't get is user experience, as he hasn't tried Nokia 800 on the daily basis. Probably not at all, actually. Apple users should know better when it comes to comparing hardware specs and software features on paper, Apple desktops - for example - missing number of apps available for Windows platform and performance parts available for Windows machines, but still being favoured by number of people for experience and ease of use.
What happened with "less is more (if it's done properly)", anyway?
One should really try using phone couple of days, or weeks, on daily basis for calling, texting, mailing, browsing, organizing... before one should compare it with other product he does know well (at least I am presuming DED is using iPhone, right?). Because devil is in the details. Is Zeis glass on Nokia's camera making any difference from same resolution iPhone 4S camera? How is integration with 25GB free SkyDrive really comparing with iPhone's iCloud - there's more free storage, but what about features? Etc, etc.
Comments
According to David Pogue of the NYTimes WP7 has a 30k deep app store. MS also has plenty of ecosystem for WP7. It's not as good as iOS, but it's surely better than Android.
What exactly was FAILED for?
30k app store, how many millions WP7 was sold in the last year? Because over 4 million iPhone 4S was sold in less than one week of its release. Get off your high horse and see the failure that windows phone is. Stop trying to coddle Microsoft/Nokia.
iPhone has raised the bar so high even this MS/Nokia partnership - with the mission of beating iPhone - has flopped on it's first try..
If you're going to take on iPhone then you need to be waaaay out of the box, else you'll fail.
that sounds like the people claiming hte iphone would fail before it was even on the market
Another DED review of a product he's never used.
Specs and feature lists alone don't give an accurate picture of a product's quality. I thought that was common knowledge amongst Apple fans?
Aw come on. He's playing by their rules! You think in actual usage, something is going to stack up better vs an Apple product than on a stat sheet??
This is the most favorable (to Nokia) comparison you'll see between the two.
Another DED review of a product he's never used.
Specs and feature lists alone don't give an accurate picture of a product's quality. I thought that was common knowledge amongst Apple fans?
What can you review it on then? Cloner Windows Phone devices have been out for over a year, and Microsoft will not release sales numbers because they are that bad.
The OS is total garbage. The UI is horrible. The lock in to the proprietary Windows OS is terrible. The lock in to the equally bad BING/MSN/Live/Hotmail/whatever Microsoft is calling their failed online services this week is terrible. Why doesn't Microsoft allow people to change from the terrible BING search engine? I think we all the answer to that...everyone would use Google as it is so much better.
What else could he review?
What else could he review?
I'd suggest a review based on real world usage. That's what the big technology blogs like Engadget are doing. Maybe the Lumia 800 will turn out to be a worthless pile of garbage but this comparison tells us nothing.
I'm sure Nokia would lend DED a device if he asked for one.
A big big miss. I don't see how Microsoft is going to gain share in 2012
Embarrassing
in "Models" :
it should be "16, 32 or 64GB" rather than "16, 32 or 64MB" ...
Thank you for the attention...
Biggest problem Microsoft have is although there thinking of original ideas, there just going to be copied before the public realise it was them that came up with it. E.g. Camera button now on the iPhone, people hub now on android.
Potentially though this could be a turning point. Last year Microsoft did next to no advertising for wp7 and the generic phone shops haven't sold them until a couple of months ago. Now Nokia is actually doing some decent ads and more shops sell the phones. Admittedly you still don't see more than 2 models in any shop compared to 30 android devices, but its a start.
This seems like comparing a Toyota Corolla to an AMG with the AMG costing $5K more than the Toyota.
Except that the iPhone 4 is the same price and the iPhone 4S is only $100 more, and both carry better subsidies, making them effectively cheaper.
So really, it's like comparing a BMW to the Daewoo that is aping it, but at about the same price.
The OS is total garbage. The UI is horrible. The lock in to the proprietary Windows OS is terrible. The lock in to the equally bad BING/MSN/Live/Hotmail/whatever Microsoft is calling their failed online services this week is terrible. Why doesn't Microsoft allow people to change from the terrible BING search engine? I think we all the answer to that...everyone would use Google as it is so much better.
What else could he review?
If you're going to call something garbage, you should at least quantify your opinions with why. How's this different from your lock-in and proprietaryness with Apple? You're free to link any emails to the phone's Inbox. Maybe, just maybe, they chose not to offer Google probably because MS can better integrate Bing with their own phone OS? You've Bing search, Bing Map, Bing Voice, Bing Audio, Bing Vision, etc... all integrated into the core OS. People complain when MS creates an integrated system with using their own technologies, and then complain that MS isn't integrated as Apple when they don't have such feature. Apple doesn't have a search business. It's in their best interest to use whatever options available (i.e. Google, Bing, Yahoo, etc...), and it was really ONLY introduced with iOS 4.
Apple doesn't have a search business. It's in their best interest to use whatever options available (i.e. Google, Bing, Yahoo, etc...), and it was really ONLY introduced with iOS 4.
Wrong. It's in Apples best interest to allow users to _choose_ what services they want to use rather than force people to only use their service. This is yet another reason Windows Phone is a total failure. No one in their right mind would want to be forced to use BING and all the google clone BING services.
Why is Microsoft against choice?
Wrong. It's in Apples best interest to allow users to _choose_ what services they want to use rather than force people to only use their service. This is yet another reason Windows Phone is a total failure. No one in their right mind would want to be forced to use BING and all the google clone BING services.
Why is Microsoft against choice?
The only thing you cannot (currently) change is Bing default searching in the browser. It doesn't prohibit you from using www.google.com or download Google Search. Most of Apple's services are provided by third-party apps whereas most things in Windows Phone are integrated into the OS. If you don't want the integrated feature, then you can download an app to replace it. With iOS, you HAVE to download Shazam if you want to know what song is playing.
Google wrote all the apps for iOS. There's nothing to stop Google from writing apps for Windows Phone 7 OS. How long did it take Apple to approve Google Voice and Google Latitude? It was in the interest of their customers, right? They were rejected until pressure from FCC and the public forced Apple to approve.
MS is against choice just because you can't change the default browser search engine? Was Apple against choice too when it took them 4 years to add Bing as an option? And I also like a choice of running Flash too on my iPhone, but that's not going to happen anytime soon, if ever. Yes, Apple is full of choices.
Another DED review of a product he's never used.
Specs and feature lists alone don't give an accurate picture of a product's quality. I thought that was common knowledge amongst Apple fans?
Well aren't you the genius. The fact of the matter is that WP7 has been a huge failure and DED is simply pointing out that with WP7 married with the hardware specs of the new Nokia devices nothing is going to change as they just aren't competitive. He wasn't just calling out hardware specs but the whole system. What is it that you don't get? It seems pretty clear to everyone else...
actually, the UI has received nothing but praise from the community of tech bloggers.
Duh! That may be but WP has been a resounding failure for those that matter - consumers! Quite frankly, it is fashion based, not particularly appealing compared to the other players. In fact it looks like it was designed by someone with attention deficit disorder.
probably not. consider the brand and the market.
Nokia owns the market share globally. the fact they partnered with Microsoft has already been deemed a huge success for both companies.
What nonsense. The marriage has been deemed no such thing as "a huge success" as it hasn't worked yet. Further, in the interim, because of the timing and the way they announced it, it severely hurt their existing business as people quit buying their immediately obsolete symbian phones. Also, try to get your facts right. Nokia does not "own" the smartphone market globally. The only success they have had recently, to keep their market share from totally collapsing, is in low end feature phones in the rest of the world. They have dramatically lost the high end of the market.
Another DED review of a product he's never used.
Specs and feature lists alone don't give an accurate picture of a product's quality. I thought that was common knowledge amongst Apple fans?
First constructive post in this tread.
Strange how almost every post about non-Apple product starts with same-as-the-last-one parade of trolling, before people who actually have something to say chime in. I'm not saying everyone before your post trolled, but many did. Sad, really.
I feel very positive about Nokia 800. Have tried and liked WP7, and Zune Desktop is also much more to my liking than iTunes. In addition, devices looks nice - well built and different from other phones. Integration with 25GB of free SkyDrive is also nice, and I think it is only the beginning; after all, MS is software company, so doing cool things in software should be their thing... otherwise, otherwise, if they cannot bring the fight to other platforms on the software level, they are doomed - and for real. But from what I have seen this far, I am expecting to see integration between Windows phones, tablets, desktops and server products to catch up and possibly overtake Apple's platform in the next 2 years, more or less.
What nonsense. The marriage has been deemed no such thing as "a huge success" as it hasn't worked yet. Further, in the interim, because of the timing and the way they announced it, it severely hurt their existing business as people quit buying their immediately obsolete symbian phones. Also, try to get your facts right. Nokia does not "own" the smartphone market globally. The only success they have had recently, to keep their market share from totally collapsing, is in low end feature phones in the rest of the world. They have dramatically lost the high end of the market.
That depends how you look at it.
It is big success for MS as Nokia is first major manufacturer dedicated to MS platform - it is not a secret Samsung, HTC... were just "me, too" regarding WP7, putting most their efforts behind Android. Seeing Nokia, others might reconsider WP7 platform more seriously too.
And for Nokia, getting out of Symbian black hole and moving to modern platform is also success, though not as big as what MS achieved with this deal.
Is this going to bring financial success and return to competitiveness, for both Nokia and MS, remains to be seen; but regarding where they were, I think success it is that they both finally moved from that spot.
Well aren't you the genius. The fact of the matter is that WP7 has been a huge failure and DED is simply pointing out that with WP7 married with the hardware specs of the new Nokia devices nothing is going to change as they just aren't competitive. He wasn't just calling out hardware specs but the whole system. What is it that you don't get? It seems pretty clear to everyone else...
What DED didn't get is user experience, as he hasn't tried Nokia 800 on the daily basis. Probably not at all, actually. Apple users should know better when it comes to comparing hardware specs and software features on paper, Apple desktops - for example - missing number of apps available for Windows platform and performance parts available for Windows machines, but still being favoured by number of people for experience and ease of use.
What happened with "less is more (if it's done properly)", anyway?
One should really try using phone couple of days, or weeks, on daily basis for calling, texting, mailing, browsing, organizing... before one should compare it with other product he does know well (at least I am presuming DED is using iPhone, right?). Because devil is in the details. Is Zeis glass on Nokia's camera making any difference from same resolution iPhone 4S camera? How is integration with 25GB free SkyDrive really comparing with iPhone's iCloud - there's more free storage, but what about features? Etc, etc.