I was an Apple customer way back in the Apple II days, got burned on the transition to the Mac, tried Apple again in the PPC days, and got burned on the transition to Intel.
Both times Apple failed to offer (promised or assumed) backward compatibility.
It's interesting to see Apple as the champion of backward compatibility now!
Of course the original iPhone is only 4 years old. But, then again, 4 smartphone years is roughly 12 pc years. At that scale, even Microsoft isn't really trying to make things work on older hardware.
We'll see.
Perhaps Apple has learned from the mistakes you've cited.
I think they've made some steps forward in that area. 3GS hasn't suffered the tragedy with ios 5 that the 3G did with 4.
I was an Apple customer way back in the Apple II days, got burned on the transition to the Mac, tried Apple again in the PPC days, and got burned on the transition to Intel.
Both times Apple failed to offer (promised or assumed) backward compatibility.
I can't say anything about Apple II to Mac, but PPC to Intel was trouble-free for me. I ran the dual binary software on my PPC machine until I switched to Intel. Up to Snow Leopard could run PPC software, which gave the industry and consumer five years to update their software and still be on the most current OS.
Well, depending on how you define out of date, the IPhone comes out with outdated hardware. Now I own a IPhone 4 and love it. However, Steve is wrong, there is no one size fits all. Otherwise, It wouldn't exist. I am in college(Engineering); so a lot of my friends like to mess with coding and stuff. The android is open so they can do this. I do not know anything about that stuff, so a phone that works great and does most of the same thing, IPhone is better for me. (Until they get more than like 20% thinner than the Iphone 4, then ill jump to android, simply cause I don't get Apple's thing with things being 1mm thin. I want to hold something, not air.
You can mess with coding (and stuff?) with the iPhone too. That is what the developer SDK is for. The open aspect really has nothing to do with the SDK, it just means that all of the operating system source code is available to look at instead of only some of it on iOS. It makes no difference to an app developer.
You are seriously worried about a device being too thin?
I can't say anything about Apple II to Mac, but PPC to Intel was trouble-free for me. I ran the dual binary software on my PPC machine until I switched to Intel. Up to Snow Leopard could run PPC software, which gave the industry and consumer five years to update their software and still be on the most current OS.
I tend to buy a new computer for myself for production work about every three years, then my wife gets the old one, then my kids get her old one, etc.
It's a longevity issue. The computer hardware, well maintained, will easily last eight or ten years. The company should support the hardware with software for the life of the device.
If it were more obvious why Snow Leopard orphaned the PPC owners, I'd be less upset. Apple can't make the "we're broke" excuse they could when they orphaned the Apple II owners.
No one supports hardware beyond three to four years.
The only software I can think of that has gotten support for 10 years is Windows XP.
MS would like to stop supporting it but large portion of the enterprise business won't let it go .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlor
It's a longevity issue. The computer hardware, well maintained, will easily last eight or ten years. The company should support the hardware with software for the life of the device.
No one supports hardware beyond three to four years.
The only software I can think of that has gotten support for 10 years is Windows XP.
MS would like to stop supporting it but large portion of the enterprise business won't let it go .
You're mixing hardware and software. I'm not asking Apple to make an old OS work on a new computer. I'm asking them to make Snow Leopard/Lion work on PPC, so my old hardware remains useful.
Microsoft does this. They may want to drop support for Windows XP, but Windows 7 will run on most of the same computers that XP runs on.
Google pretends to be the modern day Robin Hood that is stealing intellectual property from companies in technologically rich west and giving it to companies in poorer Asian countries. It has already wrecked companies like Nokia, RIM, Palm and Motorola and propped up Samsung, HTC, Huawei and ZTE. In this way it appeals to the globalist socialist fanatics as an entity that is redistributing wealth to poor. Truth is that Google that has no experience and expertise in operating system technology. Sun, Apple and Microsoft have about 4 decades of experience in developing os. There was no way Google could build this much expertise on its own, It was smart enough to know that the only way it can protect its advertising monopoly and revenue is by having a dominant operating system of its own. Since it did not have the capabilities to build, it poached employees from Sun, Apple, and stole their technology and *handed it over free to asian handset vendors. This way it thought it will be protected against litigation while allowing it to extend its monopoly in web services.
Besides this farce the other lie being propagated is that Andriod is an open source movement, intended to empower the powerless individual developers, while the sad reality is that it has killed the mobile open source movements like linux and java, by stealing their code and credit, underming their rules and thus destroying their ecosystem. *This koolaid is so intoxicating that it has created a cult of dimwits who will swear that google can do no evil. They will never ask google to open source its search engine software. Imagine if yahoo poaches google employees and open sources it's search engine technology, would google still claim that software should not be protected by intellectual property rights. *But then hypocrisy is the currency narcissists use to deal with dim wits
Google pretends to be the modern day Robin Hood that is stealing intellectual property from companies in technologically rich west and giving it to companies in poorer Asian countries. It has already wrecked companies like Nokia, RIM, Palm and Motorola and propped up Samsung, HTC, Huawei and ZTE. In this way it appeals to the globalist socialist fanatics as an entity that is redistributing wealth to poor. Truth is that Google that has no experience and expertise in operating system technology. Sun, Apple and Microsoft have about 4 decades of experience in developing os. There was no way Google could build this much expertise on its own, It was smart enough to know that the only way it can protect its advertising monopoly and revenue is by having a dominant operating system of its own. Since it did not have the capabilities to build, it poached employees from Sun, Apple, and stole their technology and *handed it over free to asian handset vendors. This way it thought it will be protected against litigation while allowing it to extend its monopoly in web services.
Besides this farce the other lie being propagated is that Andriod is an open source movement, intended to empower the powerless individual developers, while the sad reality is that it has killed the mobile open source movements like linux and java, by stealing their code and credit, underming their rules and thus destroying their ecosystem. *This koolaid is so intoxicating that it has created a cult of dimwits who will swear that google can do no evil. They will never ask google to open source its search engine software. Imagine if yahoo poaches google employees and open sources it's search engine technology, would google still claim that software should not be protected by intellectual property rights. *But then hypocrisy is the currency narcissists use to deal with dim wits
It's a problem on android for sure. It's also partially why my GSII will probably be my last android phone, Granted, I'll wait for iPhone5 or a Windows 8 phone, but I've grown agitated with the disregard shown for android customers.
As was said, making people hate their current phone is not a way to generate happy customers that are loyal.
The sheer number of android phones released, 90% of which are junk devices, ensure that android as an OS will never get it together and cure fragmentation on any serious level.
It's a problem on android for sure. It's also partially why my GSII will probably be my last android phone, Granted, I'll wait for iPhone5 or a Windows 8 phone, but I've grown agitated with the disregard shown for android customers.
As was said, making people hate their current phone is not a way to generate happy customers that are loyal.
The sheer number of android phones released, 90% of which are junk devices, ensure that android as an OS will never get it together and cure fragmentation on any serious level.
The GS2 will probably be updated regularly...so you at least have a good phone.
I just found out my LG G2X will most likely not get ICS...officially...which is pathetic.
LG has lost my business for the foreseeable future.
You're mixing hardware and software. I'm not asking Apple to make an old OS work on a new computer. I'm asking them to make Snow Leopard/Lion work on PPC, so my old hardware remains useful.
Microsoft does this. They may want to drop support for Windows XP, but Windows 7 will run on most of the same computers that XP runs on.
I completely disagree. There are old Lisa's still around and kicking it. Do you expect Apple to make sure Lion runs on them as well? PPC machines had a great run that ended with Leopard. Snow Leopard mainly had under the hood optimizations for Intel machines so there would be no point for a PPC version. Also, what makes your PPC computer not useful? It can still browse the web (if you are a security stickler there are several third party browsers that are still current with regular updates), email, use your current software. If Apple completely dumped support for its products every two years, you'd have a point but asking them to keep every damn model of computer it has ever created up to date is unreasonable.
If this is happening to you with some degree of frequency I'd suggest that something else might be happening. You might try resetting things like your network settings, especially if you can't track it to something specific. There have occasionally been quirks and bugs worked in when getting a new phone and restoring from a backup (especially when that backup was from a previous version of iOS). This is especially abnormal if you've somehow traced this to general webpages. Some of what you describe is completely outside the architecture of the OS.
I would imagine that if someone is experiencing a problem like this they'd be able to trace it to a specific app which is actually using an ongoing service.
The free MapQuest app, which, although I think it gives better directions that the Maps app/Google maps, will suck your battery down in no time if you allow it to keep "navigating" in the background when you aren't really going anywhere.
The number of people I have seen saying they are going to buy an iPad specifically to be able to buy the Moog Animoog app is ridiculous. My wife has an iPad so I snagged it and went ahead and bought it on my iTunes account, even tho I won't have an iPad till the iPad 3 next spring. Buy it now for $1 before it goes up to $30 next month
Uhm...when Apple transitioned from OS9 to OS X they had the Classic environment. When they transitioned to Intel they still had code for the PPC and added Rosetta as well. They supported the PPC for 6 years after the 2005 announcement. I call that pretty damn good. As far ass the Apple II to Mac, yeah you were screwed on that one, altho I don't recall any of their promotional info mentioning compatibility and they kept the Apple II line going concurrent w/the Mac. Until the II LC came out in '91, then you could buy the Apple IIe card for the Mac.
You know what? I pretty much bought the iPhone for Infinity Blade.
But it's great so far! I haven't been so addicted to a repetitive cell phone game in a while.
You're mixing hardware and software. I'm not asking Apple to make an old OS work on a new computer. I'm asking them to make Snow Leopard/Lion work on PPC, so my old hardware remains useful.
Microsoft does this. They may want to drop support for Windows XP, but Windows 7 will run on most of the same computers that XP runs on.
XP is not the standard tho, XP has turned out to be a pretty special case as it got so deeply entrenched in business and MS were petitioned to maintain it longer than planned. Snow Leopard came out 3 years after the transition was final and 4 years after the announcement of the switch to Intel. Considering most people buy a new system around the 4-5 year mark (if not sooner) I don't think it's unreasonable on their part to assume people would be ready to upgrade.
Nothing is stopping you from still using your current system, but don't expect to be eternally supported on an old processor that is incompatible w/their current one when Apple is the company that ditches things like floppy disks and cd rom/dvd drives before pretty much everyone else. Apple is not afraid of moving forward. It would be terrible for enterprise if MS decided to take the same approach, but it has meant years of ridiculous legacy support and compatibility issues in the Windows world.
You're mixing hardware and software. I'm not asking Apple to make an old OS work on a new computer. I'm asking them to make Snow Leopard/Lion work on PPC, so my old hardware remains useful.
Microsoft does this. They may want to drop support for Windows XP, but Windows 7 will run on most of the same computers that XP runs on.
That's why Microsoft is stuck with the detritus of the past dragging them down. Just think of the engineering resources wasted on supporting old hardware. And that's not even involving a different CPU architecture. Apple is a forward looking company and, as such, they have to be ready to abandon support for old hardware in new products. But, it's not like this happened overnight in the case of dropping PPC support from Mac OS X.
They made the transition to Intel in 2006, and Lion was just released this year, 2011. Snow Leopard (2009, 3 years) was a transitional release with most of the changes "under the hood", so it's not like PPC users missed out on that much functionality by not being able to install Snow Leopard.
That's basically 5 years. Most people upgrade their hardware every 3-5 years. For the few who don't, it's a waste of engineering resources to support an old CPU architecture. Your "old hardware" hasn't lost any of it's "usefulness", but it's a bit unreasonable to expect Apple to continue to enhance its usefulness, indefinitely, into the future.
XP is not the standard tho, XP has turned out to be a pretty special case as it got so deeply entrenched in business and MS were petitioned to maintain it longer than planned. Snow Leopard came out 3 years after the transition was final and 4 years after the announcement of the switch to Intel. Considering most people buy a new system around the 4-5 year mark (if not sooner) I don't think it's unreasonable on their part to assume people would be ready to upgrade.
I think a lot of the entrenchment came about because of delays in Longhorn/Vista. Even after release, Vista took a while for it to shake down properly because it was probably the most significantly changed OS since Windows NT, which I recall also took a while for the OS and third party support to mature.
Question, why can't Android manufacturers just make a universally stock version of their Android? I mean, can't Samsung just make ONE Touchwiz version for the year for ALL phones? Can't they just have ONE processor?
Microsoft does this. They may want to drop support for Windows XP, but Windows 7 will run on most of the same computers that XP runs on.
I think the problem there is that it's hard to justify paying MS license fees for an old computer. When you're talking about a five year old computer, the value of the computer is very likely less than the license fee. You're probably better off putting the money towards a new computer.
I think a lot of the entrenchment came about because of delays in Longhorn/Vista. Even after release, Vista took a while for it to shake down properly because it was probably the most significantly changed OS since Windows NT, which I recall also took a while for the OS and third party support to mature.
Actually, a lot of the entrenchment came about because of that delay and IE 6. Companies put a lot of development effort into in-house web apps that depend on IE 6 "features". So, now they're stuck on IE 6, which means being stuck on XP.
Comments
The Nexus One phone was built to compete with the iPad before the iPad was released?
who's rewriting history here?
He didn't say it was competing with the ipad
I was an Apple customer way back in the Apple II days, got burned on the transition to the Mac, tried Apple again in the PPC days, and got burned on the transition to Intel.
Both times Apple failed to offer (promised or assumed) backward compatibility.
It's interesting to see Apple as the champion of backward compatibility now!
Of course the original iPhone is only 4 years old. But, then again, 4 smartphone years is roughly 12 pc years. At that scale, even Microsoft isn't really trying to make things work on older hardware.
We'll see.
Perhaps Apple has learned from the mistakes you've cited.
I think they've made some steps forward in that area. 3GS hasn't suffered the tragedy with ios 5 that the 3G did with 4.
We will indeed see
I was an Apple customer way back in the Apple II days, got burned on the transition to the Mac, tried Apple again in the PPC days, and got burned on the transition to Intel.
Both times Apple failed to offer (promised or assumed) backward compatibility.
I can't say anything about Apple II to Mac, but PPC to Intel was trouble-free for me. I ran the dual binary software on my PPC machine until I switched to Intel. Up to Snow Leopard could run PPC software, which gave the industry and consumer five years to update their software and still be on the most current OS.
Well, depending on how you define out of date, the IPhone comes out with outdated hardware. Now I own a IPhone 4 and love it. However, Steve is wrong, there is no one size fits all. Otherwise, It wouldn't exist. I am in college(Engineering); so a lot of my friends like to mess with coding and stuff. The android is open so they can do this. I do not know anything about that stuff, so a phone that works great and does most of the same thing, IPhone is better for me. (Until they get more than like 20% thinner than the Iphone 4, then ill jump to android, simply cause I don't get Apple's thing with things being 1mm thin. I want to hold something, not air.
You can mess with coding (and stuff?) with the iPhone too. That is what the developer SDK is for. The open aspect really has nothing to do with the SDK, it just means that all of the operating system source code is available to look at instead of only some of it on iOS. It makes no difference to an app developer.
You are seriously worried about a device being too thin?
I can't say anything about Apple II to Mac, but PPC to Intel was trouble-free for me. I ran the dual binary software on my PPC machine until I switched to Intel. Up to Snow Leopard could run PPC software, which gave the industry and consumer five years to update their software and still be on the most current OS.
I tend to buy a new computer for myself for production work about every three years, then my wife gets the old one, then my kids get her old one, etc.
It's a longevity issue. The computer hardware, well maintained, will easily last eight or ten years. The company should support the hardware with software for the life of the device.
If it were more obvious why Snow Leopard orphaned the PPC owners, I'd be less upset. Apple can't make the "we're broke" excuse they could when they orphaned the Apple II owners.
The only software I can think of that has gotten support for 10 years is Windows XP.
MS would like to stop supporting it but large portion of the enterprise business won't let it go .
It's a longevity issue. The computer hardware, well maintained, will easily last eight or ten years. The company should support the hardware with software for the life of the device.
No one supports hardware beyond three to four years.
The only software I can think of that has gotten support for 10 years is Windows XP.
MS would like to stop supporting it but large portion of the enterprise business won't let it go .
You're mixing hardware and software. I'm not asking Apple to make an old OS work on a new computer. I'm asking them to make Snow Leopard/Lion work on PPC, so my old hardware remains useful.
Microsoft does this. They may want to drop support for Windows XP, but Windows 7 will run on most of the same computers that XP runs on.
Besides this farce the other lie being propagated is that Andriod is an open source movement, intended to empower the powerless individual developers, while the sad reality is that it has killed the mobile open source movements like linux and java, by stealing their code and credit, underming their rules and thus destroying their ecosystem. *This koolaid is so intoxicating that it has created a cult of dimwits who will swear that google can do no evil. They will never ask google to open source its search engine software. Imagine if yahoo poaches google employees and open sources it's search engine technology, would google still claim that software should not be protected by intellectual property rights. *But then hypocrisy is the currency narcissists use to deal with dim wits
Google pretends to be the modern day Robin Hood that is stealing intellectual property from companies in technologically rich west and giving it to companies in poorer Asian countries. It has already wrecked companies like Nokia, RIM, Palm and Motorola and propped up Samsung, HTC, Huawei and ZTE. In this way it appeals to the globalist socialist fanatics as an entity that is redistributing wealth to poor. Truth is that Google that has no experience and expertise in operating system technology. Sun, Apple and Microsoft have about 4 decades of experience in developing os. There was no way Google could build this much expertise on its own, It was smart enough to know that the only way it can protect its advertising monopoly and revenue is by having a dominant operating system of its own. Since it did not have the capabilities to build, it poached employees from Sun, Apple, and stole their technology and *handed it over free to asian handset vendors. This way it thought it will be protected against litigation while allowing it to extend its monopoly in web services.
Besides this farce the other lie being propagated is that Andriod is an open source movement, intended to empower the powerless individual developers, while the sad reality is that it has killed the mobile open source movements like linux and java, by stealing their code and credit, underming their rules and thus destroying their ecosystem. *This koolaid is so intoxicating that it has created a cult of dimwits who will swear that google can do no evil. They will never ask google to open source its search engine software. Imagine if yahoo poaches google employees and open sources it's search engine technology, would google still claim that software should not be protected by intellectual property rights. *But then hypocrisy is the currency narcissists use to deal with dim wits
And just when I thought I had seen it all.
You're nuts.
I hope the anti-Googlers here agree.
As was said, making people hate their current phone is not a way to generate happy customers that are loyal.
The sheer number of android phones released, 90% of which are junk devices, ensure that android as an OS will never get it together and cure fragmentation on any serious level.
It's a problem on android for sure. It's also partially why my GSII will probably be my last android phone, Granted, I'll wait for iPhone5 or a Windows 8 phone, but I've grown agitated with the disregard shown for android customers.
As was said, making people hate their current phone is not a way to generate happy customers that are loyal.
The sheer number of android phones released, 90% of which are junk devices, ensure that android as an OS will never get it together and cure fragmentation on any serious level.
The GS2 will probably be updated regularly...so you at least have a good phone.
I just found out my LG G2X will most likely not get ICS...officially...which is pathetic.
LG has lost my business for the foreseeable future.
You're mixing hardware and software. I'm not asking Apple to make an old OS work on a new computer. I'm asking them to make Snow Leopard/Lion work on PPC, so my old hardware remains useful.
Microsoft does this. They may want to drop support for Windows XP, but Windows 7 will run on most of the same computers that XP runs on.
I completely disagree. There are old Lisa's still around and kicking it. Do you expect Apple to make sure Lion runs on them as well? PPC machines had a great run that ended with Leopard. Snow Leopard mainly had under the hood optimizations for Intel machines so there would be no point for a PPC version. Also, what makes your PPC computer not useful? It can still browse the web (if you are a security stickler there are several third party browsers that are still current with regular updates), email, use your current software. If Apple completely dumped support for its products every two years, you'd have a point but asking them to keep every damn model of computer it has ever created up to date is unreasonable.
If this is happening to you with some degree of frequency I'd suggest that something else might be happening. You might try resetting things like your network settings, especially if you can't track it to something specific. There have occasionally been quirks and bugs worked in when getting a new phone and restoring from a backup (especially when that backup was from a previous version of iOS). This is especially abnormal if you've somehow traced this to general webpages. Some of what you describe is completely outside the architecture of the OS.
I would imagine that if someone is experiencing a problem like this they'd be able to trace it to a specific app which is actually using an ongoing service.
The free MapQuest app, which, although I think it gives better directions that the Maps app/Google maps, will suck your battery down in no time if you allow it to keep "navigating" in the background when you aren't really going anywhere.
The number of people I have seen saying they are going to buy an iPad specifically to be able to buy the Moog Animoog app is ridiculous. My wife has an iPad so I snagged it and went ahead and bought it on my iTunes account, even tho I won't have an iPad till the iPad 3 next spring. Buy it now for $1 before it goes up to $30 next month
Uhm...when Apple transitioned from OS9 to OS X they had the Classic environment. When they transitioned to Intel they still had code for the PPC and added Rosetta as well. They supported the PPC for 6 years after the 2005 announcement. I call that pretty damn good. As far ass the Apple II to Mac, yeah you were screwed on that one, altho I don't recall any of their promotional info mentioning compatibility and they kept the Apple II line going concurrent w/the Mac. Until the II LC came out in '91, then you could buy the Apple IIe card for the Mac.
You know what? I pretty much bought the iPhone for Infinity Blade.
But it's great so far! I haven't been so addicted to a repetitive cell phone game in a while.
You're mixing hardware and software. I'm not asking Apple to make an old OS work on a new computer. I'm asking them to make Snow Leopard/Lion work on PPC, so my old hardware remains useful.
Microsoft does this. They may want to drop support for Windows XP, but Windows 7 will run on most of the same computers that XP runs on.
XP is not the standard tho, XP has turned out to be a pretty special case as it got so deeply entrenched in business and MS were petitioned to maintain it longer than planned. Snow Leopard came out 3 years after the transition was final and 4 years after the announcement of the switch to Intel. Considering most people buy a new system around the 4-5 year mark (if not sooner) I don't think it's unreasonable on their part to assume people would be ready to upgrade.
Nothing is stopping you from still using your current system, but don't expect to be eternally supported on an old processor that is incompatible w/their current one when Apple is the company that ditches things like floppy disks and cd rom/dvd drives before pretty much everyone else. Apple is not afraid of moving forward. It would be terrible for enterprise if MS decided to take the same approach, but it has meant years of ridiculous legacy support and compatibility issues in the Windows world.
You're mixing hardware and software. I'm not asking Apple to make an old OS work on a new computer. I'm asking them to make Snow Leopard/Lion work on PPC, so my old hardware remains useful.
Microsoft does this. They may want to drop support for Windows XP, but Windows 7 will run on most of the same computers that XP runs on.
That's why Microsoft is stuck with the detritus of the past dragging them down. Just think of the engineering resources wasted on supporting old hardware. And that's not even involving a different CPU architecture. Apple is a forward looking company and, as such, they have to be ready to abandon support for old hardware in new products. But, it's not like this happened overnight in the case of dropping PPC support from Mac OS X.
They made the transition to Intel in 2006, and Lion was just released this year, 2011. Snow Leopard (2009, 3 years) was a transitional release with most of the changes "under the hood", so it's not like PPC users missed out on that much functionality by not being able to install Snow Leopard.
That's basically 5 years. Most people upgrade their hardware every 3-5 years. For the few who don't, it's a waste of engineering resources to support an old CPU architecture. Your "old hardware" hasn't lost any of it's "usefulness", but it's a bit unreasonable to expect Apple to continue to enhance its usefulness, indefinitely, into the future.
XP is not the standard tho, XP has turned out to be a pretty special case as it got so deeply entrenched in business and MS were petitioned to maintain it longer than planned. Snow Leopard came out 3 years after the transition was final and 4 years after the announcement of the switch to Intel. Considering most people buy a new system around the 4-5 year mark (if not sooner) I don't think it's unreasonable on their part to assume people would be ready to upgrade.
I think a lot of the entrenchment came about because of delays in Longhorn/Vista. Even after release, Vista took a while for it to shake down properly because it was probably the most significantly changed OS since Windows NT, which I recall also took a while for the OS and third party support to mature.
Microsoft does this. They may want to drop support for Windows XP, but Windows 7 will run on most of the same computers that XP runs on.
I think the problem there is that it's hard to justify paying MS license fees for an old computer. When you're talking about a five year old computer, the value of the computer is very likely less than the license fee. You're probably better off putting the money towards a new computer.
I think a lot of the entrenchment came about because of delays in Longhorn/Vista. Even after release, Vista took a while for it to shake down properly because it was probably the most significantly changed OS since Windows NT, which I recall also took a while for the OS and third party support to mature.
Actually, a lot of the entrenchment came about because of that delay and IE 6. Companies put a lot of development effort into in-house web apps that depend on IE 6 "features". So, now they're stuck on IE 6, which means being stuck on XP.