You're not making sense. Many current and recent Android phones, let alone 2-yr old phones, are not getting the latest OS updates.
Dude you're not getting it. There's no fragmentation when the phones aren't fragmented
/sarcasm
He does spend a lot of time talking about fragmentation as if everyone can get froyo. Which, by now, most people can, this is true.
But the fact that krabbelen makes is that phones aren't getting the OS updates because the carriers or hardware manufacturers aren't distributing them in a timely manner. That is also fragmentation.
So the average Joe picks up the latest phone all the geeks at the office have been raving about, sets it up, emails start filling the inbox, all those sense notifications, Facebook and twitter updates, heads to the Android market and downloads some applications starts getting some messages and the call records start filling up, checks some of the pre-installed demo games.
Next thing you know the memory is full and IT STOPS WORKING LIKE A PHONE, nothing whatsoever to do with RAM.
HTC skimps on hardware in order to increase their profits, that's the nature of their business.
They don't care about the user experience.
what does that have to do with 1GB internal FOR APPS memory being enough in actual use though I wish they had more?
Outside America it's total crap, it took FIVE YEARS to update the maps in my local area when they replaced roundabouts with traffic lights, FIVE YEARS out of date, searches bring up PAYING businesses e.g. search for John Street and you get John's tyres, John's Pizza etc, etc and somewhere further dan the list what you are really looking for.
The navigation App I use cost $15 and works on both an iPhone and an iPad has speed zones, including variable school zones, it speaks in my accent not with an American accent, it has far more features, maps are onboard which doesn't require an Internet connection AND it can use Google Maps API's for POI searches anyway.
I could use an app with speed zones. What app do you use?
This is extremely eye-opening! I wonder if most vocal Android users understand this.
Someone in this thread was talking about Apple fans here having a double-standard, but here's a mother of a double standard:
"of the hundreds of Android devices in the history of the OS only a small percentage were ever meant to be iPhone competitors...the rest were meant to be good enough, and that shows."
And yet, "Android" market share is constantly trumpeted. Android is said to be "winning". Apple is "failing" because the iPhone didn't gain as much new share as "Android" (all versions of all variants on all manner of what we now know to be non-competitive devices, including such things as the Nook and Fire which don't really benefit Google at all).
It's never Android vs iOS, which would include iPads and iPod Touches (not to mention Apple TVs -- must be as many Apple TV sales as Samsung Tabs).
It's never one Android phone model against the iPhone. (Hint: the 4S, 4, 3GS, or any cobination of iPhone models actually on sale at any one time are the number 1, 2, 3 best selling handsets in the world, period).
It's never even all the phone models of one hardware manufacturer (such as the whole portfolio of Samsung or HTC) against the iPhone (current and previous 12-24 month old model).
And now, now, here we find out that most Android phones aren't even really meant to compete with the iPhone. Whoah, what a revelation! Blows my mind.
(Kind of like how 99% of the world's PC's ran Windows ...but that included cash registers and petrol pumps -- hey, they weren't really meant to compete with Macs, but, hey, you know, we just want you to know how inevitable it is that one day you will be assimilated into the borg.)
Do you think a $299 bargain bin PC is meant to ever compete against an iMac?
How about a stylish top of the line $1500+ PC?
get it now?
All iPhones are high end phones...period. There is no low end iPhone, just older models.
Android phones are not the same, never were, and probably never will be.
Yes, you will need to root to remove certain applications. The ones from the carrier you don't need root. Ones from HTC you will need root.
That is interesting about only 1gb available to the user on the Sensation. But keep in mind, Micro SD cards are super cheap. I've seen phones come with 8gb on a micro SD for free.
RAM is a bigger deal. I agree it should have 1gb. But right as I type this, I have 17 processes open. Everything from Swype, to my live wallpaper. 249mb are being used on this Atrix. I have never seen more than 400mb be used at a time.
You can get by on 512, but also keep in mind that HTC Status is a budget phone intended for 13 year olds haha
So if your phone is out of date, figure out how to fix it yourself! Great customer service model.
Outside America it's total crap, it took FIVE YEARS to update the maps in my local area when they replaced roundabouts with traffic lights, FIVE YEARS out of date, searches bring up PAYING businesses e.g. search for John Street and you get John's tyres, John's Pizza etc, etc and somewhere further dan the list what you are really looking for.
The navigation App I use cost $15 and works on both an iPhone and an iPad has speed zones, including variable school zones, it speaks in my accent not with an American accent, it has far more features, maps are onboard which doesn't require an Internet connection AND it can use Google Maps API's for POI searches anyway.
There are navigation apps available on the market...very good ones.
Also, to speak to you human to human, I suggest you don't listen to maroon...even I can see he is in denial ever since he mentioned that there is no fragmentation problem...
I don't why they are bothering with this, the poster I was responding to was insisting that Google Maps is the best navigation software on any platform.
what does that have to do with 1GB internal FOR APPS memory being enough in actual use though I wish they had more?
I have seen people with this issue many times, the internal memory is filled with applications including their data and the phone stops receiving messages, goes real slow and hangs.
It's their fault, they should have known that you need a Phd in computer science if you want to own one of these things.
I have seen people with this issue many times, the internal memory is filled with applications including their data and the phone stops receiving messages, goes real slow and hangs.
It's their fault, they should have known that you need a Phd in computer science if you want to own one of these things.
If you're dealing with an older phone...yes...big issue...now that phones allow data to be stored on SD with only a small footprint required for the app...not an issue.
Also a phone won't go slow simply because it's full.
If you're dealing with an older phone...yes...big issue...now that phones allow data to be stored on SD with only a small footprint required for the app...not an issue.
Also a phone won't go slow simply because it's full.
Wrong, SOME applications will install to the MicroSD IF THEY ARE SET UP THAT WAY, unfortunately the the phones don't come out of the box like that and the user has to know enough to be able to change some rather detailed settings which are not immediately obvious.
I felt the author gave us a very interesting angle on the Android vs. iPhone debate. I love my old HTC Aria with its (many) faults, and am loving my Samsung Galaxy S2 now. But the article rightfully points out the actual problems with Android (carrier-driven fragmentation and the wake of problems therein) vs. the petty ones (not a nifty Apple product, "ugly", etc.). Even ICS which addresses handset fragmentation can't address carrier fragmentation, which is really the core problem. Indeed, the handset fragmentation is 90% a result of the carrier's disinterest in upgrading its phone, not so much a hardware or software deficiency.
The Apple -> Carrier relationship brings iOS users features very quickly.
The Google -> Handset -> Carrier relationship is like a broken filter. It starts with something great and gets slowed and anemic along the way.
There is (at least) one upside from Google being largely uncoupled from the carrier. They are less incentivized to remove those "carrier unfriendly" features such as tethering and codec support. Of course this does demand something like Cyanogenmod, which can be a real pain in the ass to set up.
. . . "Apple?s way of getting you to buy a new phone is to make you really happy with your current one, whereas apparently Android phone makers think they can get you to buy a new phone by making you really unhappy with your current one," Degusta said. . .
Today I was feeling sorry for Motto so I turned on the cold water and put my head under the tap and came to my senses. Now there is nothing to relieve the humour that has come upon me while reading this article. It?s been a very good day.
Wrong, SOME applications will install to the MicroSD IF THEY ARE SET UP THAT WAY, unfortunately the the phones don't come out of the box like that and the user has to know enough to be able to change some rather detailed settings which are not immediately obvious.
so you're an Android expert now?
I've had at one point 103 apps installed on my device with a paltry 1.5GB internal memory.
I currently have about 75 I still have about 910MB left (it says 0.91GB)
Of those apps I have Nova 2, Modern Combat 2, and Shadowgun all of which have data on my SD card averaging about 350MB each.
Other apps have data in the /Android/data/*app name* folders of my SD card for the respective apps.
I didn't set this up, I didn't program this, it just happened.
How is that possible Hill? Why am I not out of memory? Why am I not screaming in agony over my slow phone that won't dial? Why Mr. Hill?
All those other things you mentioned? Text messages? Emails and other data in Cache? Kilobytes of data..megs at most...the odds of filling up 1.5GB of data with text files on a mobile device are so slim as to be negligible.
Now I do wish Android OEMs made 8GB+ a standard on their devices, but the fact that they haven't with my phone hasn't slowed me down any.
On older phones like the rather pathetic in retrospect G1 or the should've been better Nexus One even I can see how these things would be a problem. At the time of the release of these devices data on the SD card wasn't a thing. But now? Now it's OK. Good even...but, and again I'm agreeing with you here, it should be better.
But it is hardly the make or break thing you are suggesting.
Android upgrades fast...a lot of the issues you think are issues are no longer issues for the majority of consumers.
It'd be like me complaining that iPhones can't multitask. -_-
Get a Nexus if you want a device with timely updates.
Most people buy a smart phone for what they can do at the time of purchase. Most don't look forward to some new feature that they plan to get in the future, if they did they would buy the phone in the future.
I work for a large cellphone company. I get calls all the time from iPhones. When I have to troubleshoot the customer's issue first thing I need to do is verify if they have the most current Software their phone is capable of running. Guess how many of them I have to explain how to update their phone. You would not believe how many ask what iOS is? Most Consumers DO NOT GIVE A SH!T ABOUT UPDATES. If their phone works it works they don't care. If their phones don't then they realize they may need an update if it is applicable. For the most part if your phone has the features you used the day you purchased it their is no complains. For the most part...you can't miss what you never had.
I love all these sour grapes comments about how updates aren't a big deal now that Android has proven yet again to be an incoherent platform. Who cares about adding new features, increasing the performance, or adding considerable life to your device?¡ Which are then followed up with comments about rooting the device and looking for 3rd-party updates are no big deal for the average user. I'm sure if they can't figure it out those users shouldn't own smartphones anyway¡
Then there's all the demo games etc complete with handy links to the CARRIER'S store, where (after you allow other sources and so expose yourself to malware) you can upgrade to a full version which is charged to your bill...
...that crap is installed in the phone memory, the only way to get rid of it is to jailbreak (gain root access) and flash to a new ROM some slave at XDA developers made for it.
I've been selling phones for ten years I deal with issues day in day out.
If someone is prepared to search the net for solutions or has friends who can help with tech support then they don't come to me, however for a lot of average customers I am their first point of contact when things go wrong.
Never underestimate just how poor some people's understanding of tech can be.
Get a Nexus if you want a device with timely updates.
Most people buy a smart phone for what they can do at the time of purchase. Most don't look forward to some new feature that they plan to get in the future, if they did they would buy the phone in the future.
I work for a large cellphone company. I get calls all the time from iPhones. When I have to troubleshoot the customer's issue first thing I need to do is verify if they have the most current Software their phone is capable of running. Guess how many of them I have to explain how to update their phone. You would not believe how many ask what iOS is? Most Consumers DO NOT GIVE A SH!T ABOUT UPDATES. If their phone works it works they don't care. If their phones don't then they realize they may need an update if it is applicable. For the most part if your phone has the features you used the day you purchased it their is no complains. For the most part...you can't miss what you never had.
Plug into iTunes, click check for updates, go for a walk, see a movie, smell the roses, come back and it's done.
Then there's all the demo games etc complete with handy links to the CARRIER'S store, where (after you allow other sources and so expose yourself to malware) you can upgrade to a full version which is charged to your bill...
...that crap is installed in the phone memory, the only way to get rid of it is to jailbreak (gain root access) and flash to a new ROM some slave at XDA developers made for it.
I've been selling phones for ten years I deal with issues day in day out.
If someone is prepared to search the net for solutions or has friends who can help with tech support then they don't come to me, however for a lot of average customers I am their first point of contact when things go wrong.
Never underestimate just how poor some people's understanding of tech can be.
I know people have little understanding of tech. My older sister is merely a year older than me and yet she has ZERO understanding of tech at all. NONE.
Also the malware problem is hardly as much of a problem as you lot like to make it out to be.
Also yea, carrier bloatware...it sucks, we know that...especially trial carrier bloatware.
The rest of the market seems to be unaware of how shit is evolving (thanks in no smart part to Apple) and are still clinging to an archaic and ultimately destructive market strategy.
My point was simply that on Android nowadays 1GB of app storage is fine.
Also android installs are relatively small...I think the largest is Sense by HTC which I believe clocks in at over 200MB.
Comments
You're not making sense. Many current and recent Android phones, let alone 2-yr old phones, are not getting the latest OS updates.
Dude you're not getting it. There's no fragmentation when the phones aren't fragmented
/sarcasm
He does spend a lot of time talking about fragmentation as if everyone can get froyo. Which, by now, most people can, this is true.
But the fact that krabbelen makes is that phones aren't getting the OS updates because the carriers or hardware manufacturers aren't distributing them in a timely manner. That is also fragmentation.
No point?
So the average Joe picks up the latest phone all the geeks at the office have been raving about, sets it up, emails start filling the inbox, all those sense notifications, Facebook and twitter updates, heads to the Android market and downloads some applications starts getting some messages and the call records start filling up, checks some of the pre-installed demo games.
Next thing you know the memory is full and IT STOPS WORKING LIKE A PHONE, nothing whatsoever to do with RAM.
HTC skimps on hardware in order to increase their profits, that's the nature of their business.
They don't care about the user experience.
what does that have to do with 1GB internal FOR APPS memory being enough in actual use though I wish they had more?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=944430
Some Gingerbread for your phone. Takes about 10 minutes
.
So to get the update, the normal user has to search the internet for a developer forum to help them root their phone?
As opposed to the carrier or hardware manufacturer distributing it to their phone?
That's fragmentation.
Outside America it's total crap, it took FIVE YEARS to update the maps in my local area when they replaced roundabouts with traffic lights, FIVE YEARS out of date, searches bring up PAYING businesses e.g. search for John Street and you get John's tyres, John's Pizza etc, etc and somewhere further dan the list what you are really looking for.
The navigation App I use cost $15 and works on both an iPhone and an iPad has speed zones, including variable school zones, it speaks in my accent not with an American accent, it has far more features, maps are onboard which doesn't require an Internet connection AND it can use Google Maps API's for POI searches anyway.
I could use an app with speed zones. What app do you use?
This is extremely eye-opening! I wonder if most vocal Android users understand this.
Someone in this thread was talking about Apple fans here having a double-standard, but here's a mother of a double standard:
"of the hundreds of Android devices in the history of the OS only a small percentage were ever meant to be iPhone competitors...the rest were meant to be good enough, and that shows."
And yet, "Android" market share is constantly trumpeted. Android is said to be "winning". Apple is "failing" because the iPhone didn't gain as much new share as "Android" (all versions of all variants on all manner of what we now know to be non-competitive devices, including such things as the Nook and Fire which don't really benefit Google at all).
It's never Android vs iOS, which would include iPads and iPod Touches (not to mention Apple TVs -- must be as many Apple TV sales as Samsung Tabs).
It's never one Android phone model against the iPhone. (Hint: the 4S, 4, 3GS, or any cobination of iPhone models actually on sale at any one time are the number 1, 2, 3 best selling handsets in the world, period).
It's never even all the phone models of one hardware manufacturer (such as the whole portfolio of Samsung or HTC) against the iPhone (current and previous 12-24 month old model).
And now, now, here we find out that most Android phones aren't even really meant to compete with the iPhone. Whoah, what a revelation! Blows my mind.
(Kind of like how 99% of the world's PC's ran Windows ...but that included cash registers and petrol pumps -- hey, they weren't really meant to compete with Macs, but, hey, you know, we just want you to know how inevitable it is that one day you will be assimilated into the borg.)
Do you think a $299 bargain bin PC is meant to ever compete against an iMac?
How about a stylish top of the line $1500+ PC?
get it now?
All iPhones are high end phones...period. There is no low end iPhone, just older models.
Android phones are not the same, never were, and probably never will be.
Yes, you will need to root to remove certain applications. The ones from the carrier you don't need root. Ones from HTC you will need root.
That is interesting about only 1gb available to the user on the Sensation. But keep in mind, Micro SD cards are super cheap. I've seen phones come with 8gb on a micro SD for free.
RAM is a bigger deal. I agree it should have 1gb. But right as I type this, I have 17 processes open. Everything from Swype, to my live wallpaper. 249mb are being used on this Atrix. I have never seen more than 400mb be used at a time.
You can get by on 512, but also keep in mind that HTC Status is a budget phone intended for 13 year olds haha
So if your phone is out of date, figure out how to fix it yourself! Great customer service model.
Outside America it's total crap, it took FIVE YEARS to update the maps in my local area when they replaced roundabouts with traffic lights, FIVE YEARS out of date, searches bring up PAYING businesses e.g. search for John Street and you get John's tyres, John's Pizza etc, etc and somewhere further dan the list what you are really looking for.
The navigation App I use cost $15 and works on both an iPhone and an iPad has speed zones, including variable school zones, it speaks in my accent not with an American accent, it has far more features, maps are onboard which doesn't require an Internet connection AND it can use Google Maps API's for POI searches anyway.
There are navigation apps available on the market...very good ones.
Also, to speak to you human to human, I suggest you don't listen to maroon...even I can see he is in denial ever since he mentioned that there is no fragmentation problem...
I could use an app with speed zones. What app do you use?
Metroview, it's local to Australia.
http://www.metroview.com.au/iphone.html
I don't why they are bothering with this, the poster I was responding to was insisting that Google Maps is the best navigation software on any platform.
what does that have to do with 1GB internal FOR APPS memory being enough in actual use though I wish they had more?
I have seen people with this issue many times, the internal memory is filled with applications including their data and the phone stops receiving messages, goes real slow and hangs.
It's their fault, they should have known that you need a Phd in computer science if you want to own one of these things.
I have seen people with this issue many times, the internal memory is filled with applications including their data and the phone stops receiving messages, goes real slow and hangs.
It's their fault, they should have known that you need a Phd in computer science if you want to own one of these things.
If you're dealing with an older phone...yes...big issue...now that phones allow data to be stored on SD with only a small footprint required for the app...not an issue.
Also a phone won't go slow simply because it's full.
If you're dealing with an older phone...yes...big issue...now that phones allow data to be stored on SD with only a small footprint required for the app...not an issue.
Also a phone won't go slow simply because it's full.
Wrong, SOME applications will install to the MicroSD IF THEY ARE SET UP THAT WAY, unfortunately the the phones don't come out of the box like that and the user has to know enough to be able to change some rather detailed settings which are not immediately obvious.
The Apple -> Carrier relationship brings iOS users features very quickly.
The Google -> Handset -> Carrier relationship is like a broken filter. It starts with something great and gets slowed and anemic along the way.
There is (at least) one upside from Google being largely uncoupled from the carrier. They are less incentivized to remove those "carrier unfriendly" features such as tethering and codec support. Of course this does demand something like Cyanogenmod, which can be a real pain in the ass to set up.
. . . "Apple?s way of getting you to buy a new phone is to make you really happy with your current one, whereas apparently Android phone makers think they can get you to buy a new phone by making you really unhappy with your current one," Degusta said. . .
Today I was feeling sorry for Motto so I turned on the cold water and put my head under the tap and came to my senses. Now there is nothing to relieve the humour that has come upon me while reading this article. It?s been a very good day.
Wrong, SOME applications will install to the MicroSD IF THEY ARE SET UP THAT WAY, unfortunately the the phones don't come out of the box like that and the user has to know enough to be able to change some rather detailed settings which are not immediately obvious.
so you're an Android expert now?
I've had at one point 103 apps installed on my device with a paltry 1.5GB internal memory.
I currently have about 75 I still have about 910MB left (it says 0.91GB)
Of those apps I have Nova 2, Modern Combat 2, and Shadowgun all of which have data on my SD card averaging about 350MB each.
Other apps have data in the /Android/data/*app name* folders of my SD card for the respective apps.
I didn't set this up, I didn't program this, it just happened.
How is that possible Hill? Why am I not out of memory? Why am I not screaming in agony over my slow phone that won't dial? Why Mr. Hill?
All those other things you mentioned? Text messages? Emails and other data in Cache? Kilobytes of data..megs at most...the odds of filling up 1.5GB of data with text files on a mobile device are so slim as to be negligible.
Now I do wish Android OEMs made 8GB+ a standard on their devices, but the fact that they haven't with my phone hasn't slowed me down any.
On older phones like the rather pathetic in retrospect G1 or the should've been better Nexus One even I can see how these things would be a problem. At the time of the release of these devices data on the SD card wasn't a thing. But now? Now it's OK. Good even...but, and again I'm agreeing with you here, it should be better.
But it is hardly the make or break thing you are suggesting.
Android upgrades fast...a lot of the issues you think are issues are no longer issues for the majority of consumers.
It'd be like me complaining that iPhones can't multitask. -_-
Most people buy a smart phone for what they can do at the time of purchase. Most don't look forward to some new feature that they plan to get in the future, if they did they would buy the phone in the future.
I work for a large cellphone company. I get calls all the time from iPhones. When I have to troubleshoot the customer's issue first thing I need to do is verify if they have the most current Software their phone is capable of running. Guess how many of them I have to explain how to update their phone. You would not believe how many ask what iOS is? Most Consumers DO NOT GIVE A SH!T ABOUT UPDATES. If their phone works it works they don't care. If their phones don't then they realize they may need an update if it is applicable. For the most part if your phone has the features you used the day you purchased it their is no complains. For the most part...you can't miss what you never had.
so you're an Android expert now?
I've had at one point 103 apps installed on my device with a paltry 1.5GB internal memory.
I currently have about 75 I still have about 910MB left (it says 0.91GB)
Of those apps I have Nova 2, 350MB -
Jeez, what did they strip out of the Android version, the iOS version is 1.2GB once installed.
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/n-o-v...400901088?mt=8
Then there's all the demo games etc complete with handy links to the CARRIER'S store, where (after you allow other sources and so expose yourself to malware) you can upgrade to a full version which is charged to your bill...
...that crap is installed in the phone memory, the only way to get rid of it is to jailbreak (gain root access) and flash to a new ROM some slave at XDA developers made for it.
I've been selling phones for ten years I deal with issues day in day out.
If someone is prepared to search the net for solutions or has friends who can help with tech support then they don't come to me, however for a lot of average customers I am their first point of contact when things go wrong.
Never underestimate just how poor some people's understanding of tech can be.
Get a Nexus if you want a device with timely updates.
Most people buy a smart phone for what they can do at the time of purchase. Most don't look forward to some new feature that they plan to get in the future, if they did they would buy the phone in the future.
I work for a large cellphone company. I get calls all the time from iPhones. When I have to troubleshoot the customer's issue first thing I need to do is verify if they have the most current Software their phone is capable of running. Guess how many of them I have to explain how to update their phone. You would not believe how many ask what iOS is? Most Consumers DO NOT GIVE A SH!T ABOUT UPDATES. If their phone works it works they don't care. If their phones don't then they realize they may need an update if it is applicable. For the most part if your phone has the features you used the day you purchased it their is no complains. For the most part...you can't miss what you never had.
Plug into iTunes, click check for updates, go for a walk, see a movie, smell the roses, come back and it's done.
There that's not so hard, is it?
if they can't figure it out those users shouldn't own smartphones anyway¡
So ignore the ONLY potential market for growth.
Pre iPhone, that strategy went a long way, didn't it?
Jeez, what did they strip out of the Android version, the iOS version is 1.2GB once installed.
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/n-o-v...400901088?mt=8
Then there's all the demo games etc complete with handy links to the CARRIER'S store, where (after you allow other sources and so expose yourself to malware) you can upgrade to a full version which is charged to your bill...
...that crap is installed in the phone memory, the only way to get rid of it is to jailbreak (gain root access) and flash to a new ROM some slave at XDA developers made for it.
I've been selling phones for ten years I deal with issues day in day out.
If someone is prepared to search the net for solutions or has friends who can help with tech support then they don't come to me, however for a lot of average customers I am their first point of contact when things go wrong.
Never underestimate just how poor some people's understanding of tech can be.
I know people have little understanding of tech. My older sister is merely a year older than me and yet she has ZERO understanding of tech at all. NONE.
Also the malware problem is hardly as much of a problem as you lot like to make it out to be.
Also yea, carrier bloatware...it sucks, we know that...especially trial carrier bloatware.
The rest of the market seems to be unaware of how shit is evolving (thanks in no smart part to Apple) and are still clinging to an archaic and ultimately destructive market strategy.
My point was simply that on Android nowadays 1GB of app storage is fine.
Also android installs are relatively small...I think the largest is Sense by HTC which I believe clocks in at over 200MB.