What about mult-touch on a hand held device, an accelerometer in the phone that opened other things too happen. the UI & all the thought that went into that. To make it easier to navigate a phone. Visual voicemail. what Apple did with the maps application & accessing phone numbers as links. This is just a short list.
Multitouch would be the only one there, everything else has existed on a phone prior to an iPhone
I hope that Oracle CEO Larry Ellison, as a final gift for his best friend Steve Jobs, goes thermonuclear with Google and also refuses to settle over stolen property inside Android.
You admit it can't be proven that it was stolen. Yet it must be?
Why?
Also why must people not adapt to paradigm shifts in a market? Should Microsoft have kept the old windows mobile paradigm because we all know windows phone OS wouldn't exist without iOS (and Android) being in existence.
Tell me what you personally find (based on your extensive usage) the same in both Android and iOS that is so blatant so obvious that it is stolen.
I use both daily. (iPad 2 and G2X) how about you?
I did not say it can't be proven. i said that a butch of posters on forums probably don't have the ability to prove it. You see Google is a multi billion dollar company, they pay a lot of money to hide things like theft. They are in endless hot water for information gathering on us. Do you really think they are going to go head to head with a company and do the same?
Also the shift inspired change, if you were not so busy trying to blow what I was saying out of proportion to try and make your argument better you would see that I welcomed Windows new mobile OS to the market. It's something that stands on it's own two feet and is not a clone. It's a result of the shift and it's welcome.
You are asking to compare a 4th and 5th generation OS to prove how the original OSs were similar? I had a G1 for two years,(limited by carrier), and my girl at the time had a iPhone 1, to play with them both you could feel it back then. It was obvious. Now Droid had done enough to separate itself from iOS, but the fact is it began as a hollow empty clone.
I've worked in retail for well over a decade kid. You get a feel for what is original and what is just the same stuff in a different package. It's always there. iPhone and now Windows phone have the good feel Droid has the clone feel and always will.
But lets be honest here. I can't prove that the first Droid OS was stole, and you can't prove that it was not. We don't have the resources to do so. This is just a pissing contest really in the end all we have done is gotten our feet wet. Its pretty silly to go on.
Now If there are doing a 3D render Maps program I hope it loads faster than that one in the video. It did not looks like it would keep up with driving speeds.
Google Maps, Bing Maps, ESRI ArGIS...they all have CRAP user interfaces. Google Maps doesn't have a LEGEND. I mean crap. Or an Identify tool like in ArcGIS.
But ESRI is the MS and Arc is the Windows of mapping. Nothing else comes remotely close. Everyone that uses Arc knows how stupid, ugly, archaic, and buggy it is. Ugh. I desperately want Apple to bring their interface philosophy to mapping. Maps are the ultimate product that should be intuitive, to me. They should tell a story, in just a mere moment, of looking at them. The user should just "get it" when they look at a good map. ESRI and ERDAS make their products so hard to use, that often times cartographers have to just focus on getting the data and analysis right and it does not leave enough time to make things look nice and intuitive.
Maybe their first step is to release something like ArcGIS for iOS and ArcGIS.com for the iPhone? That alone would make me very happy!
Google Maps, Bing Maps, ESRI ArGIS...they all have CRAP user interfaces. Google Maps doesn't have a LEGEND. I mean crap. Or an Identify tool like in ArcGIS.
But ESRI is the MS and Arc is the Windows of mapping. Nothing else comes remotely close. Everyone that uses Arc knows how stupid, ugly, archaic, and buggy it is. Ugh. I desperately want Apple to bring their interface philosophy to mapping. Maps are the ultimate product that should be intuitive, to me. They should tell a story, in just a mere moment, of looking at them. The user should just "get it" when they look at a good map. ESRI and ERDAS make their products so hard to use, that often times cartographers have to just focus on getting the data and analysis right and it does not leave enough time to make things look nice and intuitive.
Maybe their first step is to release something like ArcGIS for iOS and ArcGIS.com for the iPhone? That alone would make me very happy!
That all sounds alien. Are there any visual aids to help demonstrate your point?
I did not say it can't be proven. i said that a butch of posters on forums probably don't have the ability to prove it. You see Google is a multi billion dollar company, they pay a lot of money to hide things like theft. They are in endless hot water for information gathering on us. Do you really think they are going to go head to head with a company and do the same?
Also the shift inspired change, if you were not so busy trying to blow what I was saying out of proportion to try and make your argument better you would see that I welcomed Windows new mobile OS to the market. It's something that stands on it's own two feet and is not a clone. It's a result of the shift and it's welcome.
You are asking to compare a 4th and 5th generation OS to prove how the original OSs were similar? I had a G1 for two years,(limited by carrier), and my girl at the time had a iPhone 1, to play with them both you could feel it back then. It was obvious. Now Droid had done enough to separate itself from iOS, but the fact is it began as a hollow empty clone.
I've worked in retail for well over a decade kid. You get a feel for what is original and what is just the same stuff in a different package. It's always there. iPhone and now Windows phone have the good feel Droid has the clone feel and always will.
But lets be honest here. I can't prove that the first Droid OS was stole, and you can't prove that it was not. We don't have the resources to do so. This is just a pissing contest really in the end all we have done is gotten our feet wet. Its pretty silly to go on.
Now If there are doing a 3D render Maps program I hope it loads faster than that one in the video. It did not looks like it would keep up with driving speeds.
I mean, if all you have to offer is your personal opinion I guess that's respectable. You aren't stating anything as fact so I shouldn't act like you are.
I feel the initial Android was actually pushed out ahead of schedule so Google could have a fighting chance in the mobile game. Hence why the original UI/UX was utterly terrible. Never saw it as a copy though...especially not a slavish one.
Google Maps, Bing Maps, ESRI ArGIS...they all have CRAP user interfaces. Google Maps doesn't have a LEGEND. I mean crap. Or an Identify tool like in ArcGIS.
But ESRI is the MS and Arc is the Windows of mapping. Nothing else comes remotely close. Everyone that uses Arc knows how stupid, ugly, archaic, and buggy it is. Ugh. I desperately want Apple to bring their interface philosophy to mapping. Maps are the ultimate product that should be intuitive, to me. They should tell a story, in just a mere moment, of looking at them. The user should just "get it" when they look at a good map. ESRI and ERDAS make their products so hard to use, that often times cartographers have to just focus on getting the data and analysis right and it does not leave enough time to make things look nice and intuitive.
Maybe their first step is to release something like ArcGIS for iOS and ArcGIS.com for the iPhone? That alone would make me very happy!
you have a video or something to post? it sounds interesting.
That all sounds alien. Are there any visual aids to help demonstrate your point?
Well, yes and no. ESRI's lunch was getting eaten by Google Earth because from a content presentation standpoint it is about an order of magnitude worse. But it's not a map or spinny globe...it's a GIS package. The power of the ESRI stuff is twofold. The ability scale reasonably well and the ability to manage and work with geo information (gathering, searching, etc)
This isn't to say that it's got a usable UI. It COULD use a lot of enhancement but the problem domain is as complex, if not more so, than any of Apple's pro apps. Higher complexity than Final Cut Pro IMHO. Probably on the order of managing the development of the Adobe Creative Suite.
In my opinion what most GIS users need is something like Pixelmator vs Photoshop. There are certainly a large number of hard core GIS users that couldn't do without the full ESRI suite but for many users something more than Google Earth and KML is required.
But while Apple COULD write the GIS Pixlemator to ESRI's Photoshop that's probably best left to a private company to do. Like Pixelmator it needs to be able to import the equivalent of a PSD file (shapefiles, basemaps, etc) and have many of the same pro features...just in a more lightweight and easy to understand and use form.
Unfortunately what you have as alternatives are Google Earth and GRASS (okay and Quantum and a couple other open source GIS which aren't easy to use either).
It's not going to be a big market...and its going to be a lot of work.
It's a good move. Apple should aim to completely get away from Google's services. They're competitors now and Apple should not line a competitor's pockets with cash. Apple should shut Google out of iOS altogether and prevent them from data-mining information to earn revenue off of iOS users.
When Eric Schmidt testified before Congress about alleged antitrust activities by Google, he mentioned that iOS represents a huge chunk of Google's revenues. I say Apple should hit Google where it really hurts. They should stop using Google's backend for starters. They should also remove Google as the default search engine and use something else. I'm betting on both of those things happening in the coming years.
Multitouch as a concept is decades old. Possibly half a century.
Apple did amazing things with the concept but it in and of itself shouldn't have one owner (should be a standard..FRAND at most)
Yes, I understand development, and concept of multitouch is very old, but I don't recall anyone implementing it it a mobile device prior to Apple. And yes, I agree, it should be a standard.
Ah, but you were won over somewhat by my impressive skills of persuasion a little later
BTW this entire thread is a perfect example of how a topic can be hijacked so far off topic as to be worth erasing. What a shame! At least MacRumors maintained the 3D mapping subject matter ... it is a very exciting subject.
It's taken a bit longer than some apple fans hoped, but 9to5Mac is reporting that iOS6 bodes the end of Google Maps as the back-end for Apple's map application.
I think it is a big mistake for Apple not to be bro's with Google. Although from an inverstor's perspective it makes sense for apple to be hating on the other guy, from a customer perspective apple should be using the best of the best mapping services around.
I am skeptical that apple can make a better map then google. I don't see any apple cars driving around taking spherical panoramic images. But then again, they have a zillion gps enabled iphones running around snapping gps enabled pictures. Maybe they have a crowd sourced way of collecting map data.
"If Android had violated (or stolen since that's what many people here are implying) that many of Apple's patents, then why are we not seeing a single lawsuit by Apple against Google? It would make more sense would it not? Why the need to waste time and go for proxies? It's Google themselves whom developed Android after all. It would be an easy win too since Android is clearly without a doubt, a stolen product according to Lord Jobs. And why isn't Schmidt prosecuted for violating his NDA and what amounts to corporate espionage from his stint at the Apple Board?
I keep hearing the same lines over and over again revolving around how Android stole everything from Apple. But until one of you can satisfactory explain to me as to why Apple isn't going after Google directly after basically copying everything, it will always be a baseless and unsubstantiated claim."
Comments
What about mult-touch on a hand held device, an accelerometer in the phone that opened other things too happen. the UI & all the thought that went into that. To make it easier to navigate a phone. Visual voicemail. what Apple did with the maps application & accessing phone numbers as links. This is just a short list.
Multitouch would be the only one there, everything else has existed on a phone prior to an iPhone
Multitouch would be the only one there, everything else has existed on a phone prior to an iPhone
Multitouch as a concept is decades old. Possibly half a century.
Apple did amazing things with the concept but it in and of itself shouldn't have one owner (should be a standard..FRAND at most)
I hope that Oracle CEO Larry Ellison, as a final gift for his best friend Steve Jobs, goes thermonuclear with Google and also refuses to settle over stolen property inside Android.
Agreed.
So let me get this straight.
You admit it can't be proven that it was stolen. Yet it must be?
Why?
Also why must people not adapt to paradigm shifts in a market? Should Microsoft have kept the old windows mobile paradigm because we all know windows phone OS wouldn't exist without iOS (and Android) being in existence.
Tell me what you personally find (based on your extensive usage) the same in both Android and iOS that is so blatant so obvious that it is stolen.
I use both daily. (iPad 2 and G2X) how about you?
I did not say it can't be proven. i said that a butch of posters on forums probably don't have the ability to prove it. You see Google is a multi billion dollar company, they pay a lot of money to hide things like theft. They are in endless hot water for information gathering on us. Do you really think they are going to go head to head with a company and do the same?
Also the shift inspired change, if you were not so busy trying to blow what I was saying out of proportion to try and make your argument better you would see that I welcomed Windows new mobile OS to the market. It's something that stands on it's own two feet and is not a clone. It's a result of the shift and it's welcome.
You are asking to compare a 4th and 5th generation OS to prove how the original OSs were similar? I had a G1 for two years,(limited by carrier), and my girl at the time had a iPhone 1, to play with them both you could feel it back then. It was obvious. Now Droid had done enough to separate itself from iOS, but the fact is it began as a hollow empty clone.
I've worked in retail for well over a decade kid. You get a feel for what is original and what is just the same stuff in a different package. It's always there. iPhone and now Windows phone have the good feel Droid has the clone feel and always will.
But lets be honest here. I can't prove that the first Droid OS was stole, and you can't prove that it was not. We don't have the resources to do so. This is just a pissing contest really in the end all we have done is gotten our feet wet. Its pretty silly to go on.
Now If there are doing a 3D render Maps program I hope it loads faster than that one in the video. It did not looks like it would keep up with driving speeds.
Google Maps, Bing Maps, ESRI ArGIS...they all have CRAP user interfaces. Google Maps doesn't have a LEGEND. I mean crap. Or an Identify tool like in ArcGIS.
But ESRI is the MS and Arc is the Windows of mapping. Nothing else comes remotely close. Everyone that uses Arc knows how stupid, ugly, archaic, and buggy it is. Ugh. I desperately want Apple to bring their interface philosophy to mapping. Maps are the ultimate product that should be intuitive, to me. They should tell a story, in just a mere moment, of looking at them. The user should just "get it" when they look at a good map. ESRI and ERDAS make their products so hard to use, that often times cartographers have to just focus on getting the data and analysis right and it does not leave enough time to make things look nice and intuitive.
Maybe their first step is to release something like ArcGIS for iOS and ArcGIS.com for the iPhone? That alone would make me very happy!
Next up...Apple please buy ESRI!!!
Google Maps, Bing Maps, ESRI ArGIS...they all have CRAP user interfaces. Google Maps doesn't have a LEGEND. I mean crap. Or an Identify tool like in ArcGIS.
But ESRI is the MS and Arc is the Windows of mapping. Nothing else comes remotely close. Everyone that uses Arc knows how stupid, ugly, archaic, and buggy it is. Ugh. I desperately want Apple to bring their interface philosophy to mapping. Maps are the ultimate product that should be intuitive, to me. They should tell a story, in just a mere moment, of looking at them. The user should just "get it" when they look at a good map. ESRI and ERDAS make their products so hard to use, that often times cartographers have to just focus on getting the data and analysis right and it does not leave enough time to make things look nice and intuitive.
Maybe their first step is to release something like ArcGIS for iOS and ArcGIS.com for the iPhone? That alone would make me very happy!
That all sounds alien. Are there any visual aids to help demonstrate your point?
I did not say it can't be proven. i said that a butch of posters on forums probably don't have the ability to prove it. You see Google is a multi billion dollar company, they pay a lot of money to hide things like theft. They are in endless hot water for information gathering on us. Do you really think they are going to go head to head with a company and do the same?
Also the shift inspired change, if you were not so busy trying to blow what I was saying out of proportion to try and make your argument better you would see that I welcomed Windows new mobile OS to the market. It's something that stands on it's own two feet and is not a clone. It's a result of the shift and it's welcome.
You are asking to compare a 4th and 5th generation OS to prove how the original OSs were similar? I had a G1 for two years,(limited by carrier), and my girl at the time had a iPhone 1, to play with them both you could feel it back then. It was obvious. Now Droid had done enough to separate itself from iOS, but the fact is it began as a hollow empty clone.
I've worked in retail for well over a decade kid. You get a feel for what is original and what is just the same stuff in a different package. It's always there. iPhone and now Windows phone have the good feel Droid has the clone feel and always will.
But lets be honest here. I can't prove that the first Droid OS was stole, and you can't prove that it was not. We don't have the resources to do so. This is just a pissing contest really in the end all we have done is gotten our feet wet. Its pretty silly to go on.
Now If there are doing a 3D render Maps program I hope it loads faster than that one in the video. It did not looks like it would keep up with driving speeds.
I mean, if all you have to offer is your personal opinion I guess that's respectable. You aren't stating anything as fact so I shouldn't act like you are.
I feel the initial Android was actually pushed out ahead of schedule so Google could have a fighting chance in the mobile game. Hence why the original UI/UX was utterly terrible. Never saw it as a copy though...especially not a slavish one.
Next up...Apple please buy ESRI!!!
Google Maps, Bing Maps, ESRI ArGIS...they all have CRAP user interfaces. Google Maps doesn't have a LEGEND. I mean crap. Or an Identify tool like in ArcGIS.
But ESRI is the MS and Arc is the Windows of mapping. Nothing else comes remotely close. Everyone that uses Arc knows how stupid, ugly, archaic, and buggy it is. Ugh. I desperately want Apple to bring their interface philosophy to mapping. Maps are the ultimate product that should be intuitive, to me. They should tell a story, in just a mere moment, of looking at them. The user should just "get it" when they look at a good map. ESRI and ERDAS make their products so hard to use, that often times cartographers have to just focus on getting the data and analysis right and it does not leave enough time to make things look nice and intuitive.
Maybe their first step is to release something like ArcGIS for iOS and ArcGIS.com for the iPhone? That alone would make me very happy!
you have a video or something to post? it sounds interesting.
That all sounds alien. Are there any visual aids to help demonstrate your point?
Well, yes and no. ESRI's lunch was getting eaten by Google Earth because from a content presentation standpoint it is about an order of magnitude worse. But it's not a map or spinny globe...it's a GIS package. The power of the ESRI stuff is twofold. The ability scale reasonably well and the ability to manage and work with geo information (gathering, searching, etc)
http://www.esri.com/news/arcnews/sum...-arcglobe.html
This is a lot more than GE can do.
This isn't to say that it's got a usable UI. It COULD use a lot of enhancement but the problem domain is as complex, if not more so, than any of Apple's pro apps. Higher complexity than Final Cut Pro IMHO. Probably on the order of managing the development of the Adobe Creative Suite.
In my opinion what most GIS users need is something like Pixelmator vs Photoshop. There are certainly a large number of hard core GIS users that couldn't do without the full ESRI suite but for many users something more than Google Earth and KML is required.
But while Apple COULD write the GIS Pixlemator to ESRI's Photoshop that's probably best left to a private company to do. Like Pixelmator it needs to be able to import the equivalent of a PSD file (shapefiles, basemaps, etc) and have many of the same pro features...just in a more lightweight and easy to understand and use form.
Unfortunately what you have as alternatives are Google Earth and GRASS (okay and Quantum and a couple other open source GIS which aren't easy to use either).
It's not going to be a big market...and its going to be a lot of work.
http://openosx.com/grass/grass.html
When Eric Schmidt testified before Congress about alleged antitrust activities by Google, he mentioned that iOS represents a huge chunk of Google's revenues. I say Apple should hit Google where it really hurts. They should stop using Google's backend for starters. They should also remove Google as the default search engine and use something else. I'm betting on both of those things happening in the coming years.
Multitouch as a concept is decades old. Possibly half a century.
Apple did amazing things with the concept but it in and of itself shouldn't have one owner (should be a standard..FRAND at most)
Yes, I understand development, and concept of multitouch is very old, but I don't recall anyone implementing it it a mobile device prior to Apple. And yes, I agree, it should be a standard.
It's childish comments that like that make people want to ignore you, not a well reasoned post that counters another's opinion.
Case in point, I just disagreed with digitalclips a few minutes ago: http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...2&postcount=91
Ah, but you were won over somewhat by my impressive skills of persuasion a little later
BTW this entire thread is a perfect example of how a topic can be hijacked so far off topic as to be worth erasing. What a shame! At least MacRumors maintained the 3D mapping subject matter ... it is a very exciting subject.
It's taken a bit longer than some apple fans hoped, but 9to5Mac is reporting that iOS6 bodes the end of Google Maps as the back-end for Apple's map application.
http://************/2012/05/11/ios-6-apple-drops-google-maps-debuts-in-house-maps-with-incredible-3d-mode/
PS -I wonder if AI is still blocking 9to5
EDIT: Yes it is. Substitute 9to5Mac for the asterisks.
I think it is a big mistake for Apple not to be bro's with Google. Although from an inverstor's perspective it makes sense for apple to be hating on the other guy, from a customer perspective apple should be using the best of the best mapping services around.
I am skeptical that apple can make a better map then google. I don't see any apple cars driving around taking spherical panoramic images. But then again, they have a zillion gps enabled iphones running around snapping gps enabled pictures. Maybe they have a crowd sourced way of collecting map data.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClementineOrange
I am skeptical that apple can make a better map then google. I don't see any apple cars driving around taking spherical panoramic images.
I don't see how that in any way makes a good mapping program. Seems like a lot of wasted time and resources to me.
Many reasons:
Google don't profit from Android, at least not directly.
HTC, Samsung etc. do profit from the shameless copying.
Apple are free to copy Google until they pursue legal action.
Any profits Google make from Android are platform-agnostic, i.e. Ads, Use Data, making a case difficult.
Google currently are a huge provider of data for Apple Apps; Apple won't sue Twitter, Yahoo, Microsoft etc. either.
To name a few.
O/T: This new forum sucks. Especially on iPhone.
Above reply to:
The Mock Turtleneck:
"If Android had violated (or stolen since that's what many people here are implying) that many of Apple's patents, then why are we not seeing a single lawsuit by Apple against Google? It would make more sense would it not? Why the need to waste time and go for proxies? It's Google themselves whom developed Android after all. It would be an easy win too since Android is clearly without a doubt, a stolen product according to Lord Jobs. And why isn't Schmidt prosecuted for violating his NDA and what amounts to corporate espionage from his stint at the Apple Board?
I keep hearing the same lines over and over again revolving around how Android stole everything from Apple. But until one of you can satisfactory explain to me as to why Apple isn't going after Google directly after basically copying everything, it will always be a baseless and unsubstantiated claim."
Edit: found Quote button wtf am such a remmer.