I use a Mac at work for normal office stuff and have a few older PPC programs that need Rosetta. Not many, but one or two that are essential for the business. I also don't want a "toy" OS on my desktop, although its fine on my iPad. It seems like Apple are making Microsoft's mistake in reverse - MS want the desktop OS on both desktop and tablet; Apple wants the mobile OS on both.
The reliability reports pointing to this that or the other problem, plus the complicated upgrade procedures being reported with several blogs and magazines now offering "How to Upgrade to Lion" tutorials don't make me think Lion is a 'must have' product. No physical media to boot from is not good either - I like to have a disk to hold in my hand when it comes to things as important as an OS.
In fact I see Lion as being so poor for business use that instead of getting the latest, fastest Mac mini out there I've just bought a discounted last-model mid-2010 Mac mini server for over $300 less than I would have had to pay for the i7 model I really wanted to get. I'll now stick a spare copy of Snow Leopard client OS on there and work with that.
Lion joins the long line of Apple innovations that have stopped me buying the latest versions of their equipment, including glossy screens on iMacs with no alternative, a fragile, double-glass iPhone 4/4S and now an OS for teenagers and not businesses.
As for uptake, with Mac sales rising each year, of course Lion uptake in numbers will increase each year because there is a larger and larger user base to apply percentages to.
Perhaps it's just that the more recent Apple "switchers" have a working computer and don't even think about needing the latest, greatest OS. The machine still works. Why change it? Upgrading to the latest Windows is generally a multi-year affair only slightly less painful than being disemboweled with a wooden fork.
Most people don't even buy apps after the first few months, and they certainly aren't itching for an OS upgrade or whining about Rosetta. Only if you're an Apple geek does that stuff bother you in the least.
Lion will mostly grow in percentage terms as new machines are sold.
Rightfully so. I don't want to transform my MBP into a dumbed-down, oversized iPad. I'll probably just skip Lion entirely and wait for Apple to sort its s#1t out come 10.8.
Rightfully so. I don't want to transform my MBP into a dumbed-down, oversized iPad. I'll probably just skip Lion entirely and wait for Apple to sort its s#1t out come 10.8.
1) You think Lion makes your Amex into a dumbed down iPad?
2) You think over the next three years of iOS domination that Apple will not be adding more features of iOS to their next version of Mac.
I disagree with his assessment in both respects. Apple only added iOS-like features to Mac OS for the sale of familiarity and only when they made sense. We haven't seen an iMac with a touchscreen nor will we. It just doesn't make sense.
What MS is doing with Metro is creating a new, web code-based UI that that is similar WP7ms UI, not Win7 desktop.
Each are very distinct development platforms but it's obvious there will be some cross over, in both directions, as these OSes evolves. To MS credit, even though I dislike the Windows Everyone meme, they are making great strides compared to their previous efforts.
My reasons for not updating to Lion, and even thinking of skipping Lion totally:
- I want to have control of when I save documents, and sometimes decide NOT to save a document. I want a SAVE AS feature which I use a lot.
- I have a few Rosette apps
- Reports are that Lion is still buggy
- Snow Leopard is ultra stable
- Nothing in Lion attracts me to upgrade
- the online installation sucks. I want to have a clear-cut system that enables me to restore if all goes wrong. What if the reinstallation partition fails?
- the upgrade price is very reasonable, and it never occurred to me to avoid upgrading because of price.
- For me, Snow Leopard is the pinnacle of OSX, and Lion is the beginning of the dumbing down of the OSX to make it more like iOS. e.g. removing SAVE AS, and forced auto saves etc.
There are quite a few of you posting to this thread who are complaining about "feature creep" in Lion. After using the OS full-time, I disagree with the way you are framing the new features of Lion. These new elements (Mission Control, LaunchPad, and Gestures) are not gratuitously added features; they are Apple's first steps in evolving the OS away from the file-system driven desktop metaphor that has dominated computing since the '80s.
This change is not seamless, and the new pieces of the OS need to mature before I can say they are 100% successful. I did experience a learning curve, but, once I acclimated, I found the new features to be useful.
- Mission Control: This brings focus to the various Expose views in previous release. It needs better multiscreen support, and I think naming the screens "Desktop 1", etc is odd since they are often not in that order.
- LaunchPad: Spotlight was Apple's first move to give users fast, non-file system access to files. LP makes opening apps much faster. However, the default implementation is incomplete. I installed the freely-available LaunchPad-Control (Panel) to allow me to control which apps appear--this changed the experience for me. Apple must give user's a way to control which apps appear in LP.
-Gestures: If you do not have a gesture capable input device (Magic Mouse or Trackpad), then I don't think Lion will work as well for you. I absolutely depend on quick swipes of my fingers to access the new features. Some of this can be replicated by assigning actions to mouse buttons, but this is not helpful to the many users that do not have the newer style of trackpad on their laptops.
My takeaway from this is that Apple wants to do two things: 1) deprecate the Finder as the main way of accessing files, and move the primary mechanism for app/file access to the OS or associated programs; 2) use gestures to add "dimensions" and short cuts to the OS.
- I want to have control of when I save documents, and sometimes decide NOT to save a document. I want a SAVE AS feature which I use a lot.
Open Apple+S is now Save As.
I'll repeat that.
Open Apple+S is now Save As.
Quote:
- Reports are that Lion is still buggy
It's not. No more than Snow Leopard or Leopard ever was.
Quote:
- the online installation sucks.
It's… not online. You download it and you install it here.
Quote:
What if the reinstallation partition fails?
Then it downloads Lion again. For free. And installs it.
Quote:
- For me, Snow Leopard is the pinnacle of OSX, and Lion is the beginning of the dumbing down of the OSX to make it more like iOS. e.g. removing SAVE AS, and forced auto saves etc.
Oh, no! Apple has made a paradigm shift from something that NEVER SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED but lasted for two and a half decades to something that should have happened from the start! It's the beginning of the end! We're being dumbed down!
The above fallacy is what I read every time I hear someone complain about Versions/Saving. It works exactly the same as it always has. Apple just removed a step that has always been unnecessary.
It's not. No more than Snow Leopard or Leopard ever was.
I've not found any major bugs either, though Safari does seem to much through RAM like there's no tomorrow. Updates have made it slightly more conservative, but still, its crazy. With just this page open, Safari's using 235mb, and WebProcess 332mb. That's twice the RAM the iPad 1 has in total, and Safari can have multiple tabs open and still be fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
It's? not online. You download it and you install it here.
Then it downloads Lion again. For free. And installs it.
I think what 4miller's trying to say is if your HDD dies and you replace it, or the partition table becomes corrupt for some reason, you've got no access to an OS at all. You'd have to go to an Apple Store to get the OS reinstalled. You can't just re-download it without an OS to download it with; the EFI doesn't have enough intelligence built in to download Lion and format the drive itself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
The above fallacy is what I read every time I hear someone complain about Versions/Saving. It works exactly the same as it always has. Apple just removed a step that has always been unnecessary.
That'd be all well and good if everything supported it, but at the moment it's only Apple's own apps. Few developers seem interested in adding the feature to their own apps. If autosave worked in everything, I wouldn't have to keep up the habit of hitting Command + S every now and then.
Mid 2011 MBP running snow leopard and it's just fine.. no real desire to upgrade.
And don't - it's a real pain. My printer driver is all screwed up not to mention the ridiculous obtrusive swiping that keeps throwing widgets . And the worse part is every friggin document, etc reappearss whenever you re-open any application. A nuiscance The worseMac OS ever- and I've used them since OS8. Not user friendly- AT ALL.
Apple is trying to put a round peg in a square hole here- bridge a gap between our Desktop OS and mobile devices not understanding that desktops need a separate and powerful OS of their own- independent of any toy peripheral.
I do. Shows you what computer I grew up on, dunnit?
Quote:
I've not found any major bugs either, though Safari does seem to much through RAM like there's no tomorrow.
Safari has been doing that since Leopard. It's not a Lion bug, it's a "Hey, Apple. You've created a browser with a MULTIPLE GIGABYTE MEMORY LEAK. Might want to fix that." bug.
Quote:
I think what 4miller's trying to say is if your HDD dies and you replace it, or the partition table becomes corrupt for some reason, you've got no access to an OS at all. You'd have to go to an Apple Store to get the OS reinstalled.
Unless you've burnt your own spindle of 25 copies of it or created a simple NAND flash drive with it on there.
Hard drive corruption should be a non-issue and should have even been a non-issue before the advent of Time Machine. ALWAYS have a physical backup. Burn your own discs or use Time Machine to have a direct parity copy.
Quote:
I wouldn't have to keep up the habit of hitting Command + S every now and then.
You'll get over it. I don't say that demeaningly; I say it as a consolation. I was worse than anyone I knew about hitting Save at increasingly short intervals, but my time on the Developer Previews broke me of that.
The only interesting thing will be to see if Creative Suite 6 decides to support it. I mean, it goes against absolutely everything that Adobe has demanded its users do since the beginning of time, but Versions/AutoSave is a better way of doing things?
Though I bet if they do implement it, it'll be feature #2 in a list of 10 that costs us $4,000 to upgrade to.
My reasons for not updating to Lion, and even thinking of skipping Lion totally:
- I want to have control of when I save documents, and sometimes decide NOT to save a document. I want a SAVE AS feature which I use a lot.
- I have a few Rosette apps
- Reports are that Lion is still buggy
- Snow Leopard is ultra stable
- Nothing in Lion attracts me to upgrade
- the online installation sucks. I want to have a clear-cut system that enables me to restore if all goes wrong. What if the reinstallation partition fails?
- the upgrade price is very reasonable, and it never occurred to me to avoid upgrading because of price.
- For me, Snow Leopard is the pinnacle of OSX, and Lion is the beginning of the dumbing down of the OSX to make it more like iOS. e.g. removing SAVE AS, and forced auto saves etc.
I'm on Snow Leopard and have no plans to upgrade even though I bought a copy of Lion. I don't need a phone like OS on my workstations and Macbook Pros. I'm really only waiting to see what release after Lion looks like. If Apple keeps moving in the iOS/iPhone direction for OS X, then it's good bye Apple for me. I don't need a computer/OS from a phone company.
I had Lion installed for about 2 weeks before downgrading back to Snow Leopard. I simply did not like all of the iOS-like "features" in Lion. I know that one day I'll be forced to upgrade, so I just hope Apple makes Lion suck less, but I'm not holding my breath.
Comments
Do you guys believe you are the first to complain about features in a OS X upgrade?
or is it TBell keep that thread running with controversy. Just like with the other username :-)
I'm on to yah...
or is it TBell keep that thread running with controversy. Just like with the other username :-)
I'm on to yah...
The reliability reports pointing to this that or the other problem, plus the complicated upgrade procedures being reported with several blogs and magazines now offering "How to Upgrade to Lion" tutorials don't make me think Lion is a 'must have' product. No physical media to boot from is not good either - I like to have a disk to hold in my hand when it comes to things as important as an OS.
In fact I see Lion as being so poor for business use that instead of getting the latest, fastest Mac mini out there I've just bought a discounted last-model mid-2010 Mac mini server for over $300 less than I would have had to pay for the i7 model I really wanted to get. I'll now stick a spare copy of Snow Leopard client OS on there and work with that.
Lion joins the long line of Apple innovations that have stopped me buying the latest versions of their equipment, including glossy screens on iMacs with no alternative, a fragile, double-glass iPhone 4/4S and now an OS for teenagers and not businesses.
As for uptake, with Mac sales rising each year, of course Lion uptake in numbers will increase each year because there is a larger and larger user base to apply percentages to.
Perhaps it's just that the more recent Apple "switchers" have a working computer and don't even think about needing the latest, greatest OS. The machine still works. Why change it? Upgrading to the latest Windows is generally a multi-year affair only slightly less painful than being disemboweled with a wooden fork.
Most people don't even buy apps after the first few months, and they certainly aren't itching for an OS upgrade or whining about Rosetta. Only if you're an Apple geek does that stuff bother you in the least.
Lion will mostly grow in percentage terms as new machines are sold.
Or untick the "Natural Scrolling" box in mouse prefs. I assume that option's available for non-magic mice too.
Interestingly, unchecking "Natural Scrolling" in mouse settings disables natural scrolling system-wide.
"Web stats indicate Mac OS X Lion still growing very fast"
C'mon, AI.
Which is it?
Rightfully so. I don't want to transform my MBP into a dumbed-down, oversized iPad. I'll probably just skip Lion entirely and wait for Apple to sort its s#1t out come 10.8.
1) You think Lion makes your Amex into a dumbed down iPad?
2) You think over the next three years of iOS domination that Apple will not be adding more features of iOS to their next version of Mac.
Good luck with all that.
It seems like Apple are making Microsoft's mistake in reverse - MS want the desktop OS on both desktop and tablet; Apple wants the mobile OS on both.
Good observation.
Good observation.
I disagree with his assessment in both respects. Apple only added iOS-like features to Mac OS for the sale of familiarity and only when they made sense. We haven't seen an iMac with a touchscreen nor will we. It just doesn't make sense.
What MS is doing with Metro is creating a new, web code-based UI that that is similar WP7ms UI, not Win7 desktop.
Each are very distinct development platforms but it's obvious there will be some cross over, in both directions, as these OSes evolves. To MS credit, even though I dislike the Windows Everyone meme, they are making great strides compared to their previous efforts.
- I want to have control of when I save documents, and sometimes decide NOT to save a document. I want a SAVE AS feature which I use a lot.
- I have a few Rosette apps
- Reports are that Lion is still buggy
- Snow Leopard is ultra stable
- Nothing in Lion attracts me to upgrade
- the online installation sucks. I want to have a clear-cut system that enables me to restore if all goes wrong. What if the reinstallation partition fails?
- the upgrade price is very reasonable, and it never occurred to me to avoid upgrading because of price.
- For me, Snow Leopard is the pinnacle of OSX, and Lion is the beginning of the dumbing down of the OSX to make it more like iOS. e.g. removing SAVE AS, and forced auto saves etc.
This change is not seamless, and the new pieces of the OS need to mature before I can say they are 100% successful. I did experience a learning curve, but, once I acclimated, I found the new features to be useful.
- Mission Control: This brings focus to the various Expose views in previous release. It needs better multiscreen support, and I think naming the screens "Desktop 1", etc is odd since they are often not in that order.
- LaunchPad: Spotlight was Apple's first move to give users fast, non-file system access to files. LP makes opening apps much faster. However, the default implementation is incomplete. I installed the freely-available LaunchPad-Control (Panel) to allow me to control which apps appear--this changed the experience for me. Apple must give user's a way to control which apps appear in LP.
-Gestures: If you do not have a gesture capable input device (Magic Mouse or Trackpad), then I don't think Lion will work as well for you. I absolutely depend on quick swipes of my fingers to access the new features. Some of this can be replicated by assigning actions to mouse buttons, but this is not helpful to the many users that do not have the newer style of trackpad on their laptops.
My takeaway from this is that Apple wants to do two things: 1) deprecate the Finder as the main way of accessing files, and move the primary mechanism for app/file access to the OS or associated programs; 2) use gestures to add "dimensions" and short cuts to the OS.
- I want to have control of when I save documents, and sometimes decide NOT to save a document. I want a SAVE AS feature which I use a lot.
Open Apple+S is now Save As.
I'll repeat that.
Open Apple+S is now Save As.
- Reports are that Lion is still buggy
It's not. No more than Snow Leopard or Leopard ever was.
- the online installation sucks.
It's… not online. You download it and you install it here.
What if the reinstallation partition fails?
Then it downloads Lion again. For free. And installs it.
- For me, Snow Leopard is the pinnacle of OSX, and Lion is the beginning of the dumbing down of the OSX to make it more like iOS. e.g. removing SAVE AS, and forced auto saves etc.
Oh, no! Apple has made a paradigm shift from something that NEVER SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED but lasted for two and a half decades to something that should have happened from the start! It's the beginning of the end! We're being dumbed down!
The above fallacy is what I read every time I hear someone complain about Versions/Saving. It works exactly the same as it always has. Apple just removed a step that has always been unnecessary.
Open Apple+S is now Save As.
Don't you mean Command + S?
It's not. No more than Snow Leopard or Leopard ever was.
I've not found any major bugs either, though Safari does seem to much through RAM like there's no tomorrow. Updates have made it slightly more conservative, but still, its crazy. With just this page open, Safari's using 235mb, and WebProcess 332mb. That's twice the RAM the iPad 1 has in total, and Safari can have multiple tabs open and still be fine.
It's? not online. You download it and you install it here.
Then it downloads Lion again. For free. And installs it.
I think what 4miller's trying to say is if your HDD dies and you replace it, or the partition table becomes corrupt for some reason, you've got no access to an OS at all. You'd have to go to an Apple Store to get the OS reinstalled. You can't just re-download it without an OS to download it with; the EFI doesn't have enough intelligence built in to download Lion and format the drive itself.
The above fallacy is what I read every time I hear someone complain about Versions/Saving. It works exactly the same as it always has. Apple just removed a step that has always been unnecessary.
That'd be all well and good if everything supported it, but at the moment it's only Apple's own apps. Few developers seem interested in adding the feature to their own apps. If autosave worked in everything, I wouldn't have to keep up the habit of hitting Command + S every now and then.
Mid 2011 MBP running snow leopard and it's just fine.. no real desire to upgrade.
And don't - it's a real pain. My printer driver is all screwed up not to mention the ridiculous obtrusive swiping that keeps throwing widgets . And the worse part is every friggin document, etc reappearss whenever you re-open any application. A nuiscance The worseMac OS ever- and I've used them since OS8. Not user friendly- AT ALL.
Apple is trying to put a round peg in a square hole here- bridge a gap between our Desktop OS and mobile devices not understanding that desktops need a separate and powerful OS of their own- independent of any toy peripheral.
Don't you mean Command + S?
I do. Shows you what computer I grew up on, dunnit?
I've not found any major bugs either, though Safari does seem to much through RAM like there's no tomorrow.
Safari has been doing that since Leopard. It's not a Lion bug, it's a "Hey, Apple. You've created a browser with a MULTIPLE GIGABYTE MEMORY LEAK. Might want to fix that." bug.
I think what 4miller's trying to say is if your HDD dies and you replace it, or the partition table becomes corrupt for some reason, you've got no access to an OS at all. You'd have to go to an Apple Store to get the OS reinstalled.
Unless you've burnt your own spindle of 25 copies of it or created a simple NAND flash drive with it on there.
Hard drive corruption should be a non-issue and should have even been a non-issue before the advent of Time Machine. ALWAYS have a physical backup. Burn your own discs or use Time Machine to have a direct parity copy.
I wouldn't have to keep up the habit of hitting Command + S every now and then.
You'll get over it. I don't say that demeaningly; I say it as a consolation. I was worse than anyone I knew about hitting Save at increasingly short intervals, but my time on the Developer Previews broke me of that.
The only interesting thing will be to see if Creative Suite 6 decides to support it. I mean, it goes against absolutely everything that Adobe has demanded its users do since the beginning of time, but Versions/AutoSave is a better way of doing things?
Though I bet if they do implement it, it'll be feature #2 in a list of 10 that costs us $4,000 to upgrade to.
My reasons for not updating to Lion, and even thinking of skipping Lion totally:
- I want to have control of when I save documents, and sometimes decide NOT to save a document. I want a SAVE AS feature which I use a lot.
- I have a few Rosette apps
- Reports are that Lion is still buggy
- Snow Leopard is ultra stable
- Nothing in Lion attracts me to upgrade
- the online installation sucks. I want to have a clear-cut system that enables me to restore if all goes wrong. What if the reinstallation partition fails?
- the upgrade price is very reasonable, and it never occurred to me to avoid upgrading because of price.
- For me, Snow Leopard is the pinnacle of OSX, and Lion is the beginning of the dumbing down of the OSX to make it more like iOS. e.g. removing SAVE AS, and forced auto saves etc.
Smart
And totally true- all of the above.