Apple defends Siri abortion, birth control omissions as unintentional

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 97
    dunksdunks Posts: 1,254member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by libertyforall View Post


    Let's see, birth CONTROL -- condoms, the pill, abstinence... and there are other options, but nothing is perfect, well except abstinence...



    Actually, abstinence has a failure rate second only to the rhythm method. Indoctrinated shame around condoms is the primary reason why American teen pregnancy rates are six times higher than in many other developed countries with comprehensive sex education in schools.
  • Reply 42 of 97
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 9,989member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Zozman View Post


    WOW this is lame, people can't be responsible for their own actions....Siri made me do it



    That's what I've been wondering. So here's the scenario...



    Siri is asked for help locating an abortion clinic. This is not like looking up a number in the phone book. You are asking an artificial intelligence, programmed by Apple, to give you information. Something goes terrible wrong at the clinic supplied by Siri. The clinic gets sued. I'm betting the lawyers would try to sue Apple too. And don't say it would be impossible for such a lawsuit to succeed.



    This scenario, of course, could be applied to many other recommendations from Siri. Like asking for an auto repair shop, a medical professional, a lawyer, etc. We are told all the time that the law is always far behind the technology.
  • Reply 43 of 97
    lilgto64lilgto64 Posts: 1,147member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dunks View Post


    Actually, abstinence has a failure rate second only to the rhythm method. Indoctrinated shame around condoms is the primary reason why American teen pregnancy rates are six times higher than in many other developed countries with comprehensive sex education in schools.



    I suspect you are confusing abstinence in theory and abstinence in practice.



    Actual abstinence is 100% effect - however - preaching abstinence while in fact the exact opposite is occurring is not.



    I can't figure out why those opposed to abortion are also opposed to effect prevention - it would seem to me that as a first step at least would be to work toward 100% prevention of every having anyone get to a point where they feel they need to make that decision. and that may include the entire gamut of options from more effective sex ed to options for prophylactic and even sterilization.



    I do not buy the argument that effective birth control promotes sexual activity - I think it should be pretty clear to anyone that sex does not need any promotion.



    but then I suppose it is far too much to ask to have ideology and politics etc removed from the discussion and take a practical, logical approach to what is effective.



    In fact I think that the repressive attitudes about sexuality that prevail are partly responsible for many sex related problems, from unwanted pregnancy, to prostitution, to infidelity.
  • Reply 44 of 97
    eideardeideard Posts: 427member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    Now that there are some ties to Carrier IQ showing up in iOS the media can finally care about that issue. After all the location data issue was blown out of proportion for backing up cell tower data to your iPhone backup via iTunes.



    Wait. Give 'em a chance to tie it to a missing child in the Confederacy. Or whatever is the latest single incident occupying the bulk of news "coverage" - instead of all the other unimportant topics like war, peace, death, medicine, science, technology and proper football scores.
  • Reply 45 of 97
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,675member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    http://www.theverge.com/2011/11/30/2...ple-ios-iphone



    "We were able to independently verify that at the very least, references to Carrier IQ's servers do exist within iPhoneOS 3.1.3 in a file located at /usr/bin/IQAgent. What exactly that binary is able to access or how it may communicate with either carriers or Carrier IQ is not yet known, though there are references to an IQAgent log on the device as well as references to collector.sky.carrieriq.com."



    For versions 4.0 and 5.0, Intell on MacRumors' forums has found similar references to the http://collector.sky.carrieriq.com location within /usr/bin/awd_ice2, although we have not independently verified that yet. Again, no clear word on just what is or is not being tracked or collected."

    ...



    The version of Carrier IQ on iOS is not the root kit version Android has, allows the user to opt out, and isn't logging keystrokes:



    http://blog.chpwn.com/post/13572216737



    Apparently "open" isn't always better, especially when "open" is just marketing propaganda like with Android, or means "open to all sorts of abuses".
  • Reply 46 of 97
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post


    That's what I've been wondering. So here's the scenario...



    Siri is asked for help locating an abortion clinic. This is not like looking up a number in the phone book. You are asking an artificial intelligence, programmed by Apple, to give you information. Something goes terrible wrong at the clinic supplied by Siri. The clinic gets sued. I'm betting the lawyers would try to sue Apple too. And don't say it would be impossible for such a lawsuit to succeed.



    This scenario, of course, could be applied to many other recommendations from Siri. Like asking for an auto repair shop, a medical professional, a lawyer, etc. We are told all the time that the law is always far behind the technology.



    Except that It's not an artificial intelligence, since *real* AIs don't exist outside fiction
  • Reply 47 of 97
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,675member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lukeskymac View Post


    Except that It's not an artificial intelligence, since *real* AIs don't exist outside fiction



    Accepting that premise means that, if "real AI" showed up, you wouldn't recognize it, because you are convinced it only exists in fiction.
  • Reply 48 of 97
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 17,847member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sflocal View Post


    Oh jeez... The <insert cause here> whiners are trying to get their 15 minutes of fame.



    And if it DID direct people to abortion clinics? You'd have the pro-life "rights groups" and "bloggers" having a fit. Apple should have responded like this:



    "We wish we could say we're surprised. But we're not. Let's get this straight: You're complaining about not being to find abortion services on your PHONE!? Did you need an abortion that badly and quickly that you couldn't find a laptop or a phonebook to look up your nearest fetus extraction center? Look folks, we gotta be honest here....you people are all freakin' bananas. Oh, and consider this: Without us you wouldn't even THINK about searching for abortion clinics on your phone. You'd still be using a Moto RAZR with "mobile web", downloading data at a whopping 6 KB a second. So we'd rather you just say thank you, and be on your way. Freaks."
  • Reply 49 of 97
    nothin like leveraging Apple's market presence to politicize its services.



    That's all I'm going to say on this - it's pathetic really. And to devolve the thread into a political discussion is equally dumb. All form, no substance - no wonder the general public is jaded and cynical about this stuff.
  • Reply 50 of 97
    I guess the next thing the scum bags on the left will want to know is where the next OWS camp will be. Probably get an abortion there, too.
  • Reply 51 of 97
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ronbo View Post


    This.



    But to be fair (or not), it's the ACLU. They don't get upset. They stay upset and are continually finding things to justify why.



    Maybe the ACLU can team up with Greenpeace and invade Apple's headquarters.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


    More to the point, is it Apple's fault if said other services haven't cataloged some places.



    Consider, for example, those abortion clinics. maybe they don't want to be listed in Google's mapping service because it would make them easier targets. Particularly in certain areas of the country which are much more anti-abortion.



    Exactly. Apple doesn't determine what information is available. Apple can only present info that's in the database.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post


    I suspect you are confusing abstinence in theory and abstinence in practice.



    Actual abstinence is 100% effect - however - preaching abstinence while in fact the exact opposite is occurring is not.



    Absolutely.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post


    I can't figure out why those opposed to abortion are also opposed to effect prevention - it would seem to me that as a first step at least would be to work toward 100% prevention of every having anyone get to a point where they feel they need to make that decision.



    I have some theories about that. In fact, I once wrote an essay. My parish priest didn't like it. From the Catholic Church's perspective, the problem is that they're using consistent theology, but basing it on 12th century science. The church is still acting on the basis of the sperm being a seed and the womb being merely a receptacle. On that basis, they believe that stopping or killing the sperm is the same as killing a fetus. What they don't realize is that, biologically, stopping sperm is no different than trimming your fingernails.



    Note that I said 'consistent' theology. I believe it's erroneous, but it would take considerably longer to prove that. The point is that their position is 100% consistent with their theological position and 12th century science. They could maintain the same theological position and allow birth control (at least barrier methods, anyway) if they simply update their science advisors.



    For the other people opposed to birth control (religious fundamentalists and right wing radicals), it seems to come down to a misguided belief that you can order people (especially kids) to do what you want them to do and that they will always obey if you make your order forceful enough. Clearly, this doesn't work.
  • Reply 52 of 97
    It's a good thing this came out. This way, it makes Apple more or less neutral so they won't piss off any customers.
  • Reply 53 of 97
    mac voyermac voyer Posts: 1,291member
    This whole thing is STUPID!!!



    Obviously, the people jumping on the bandwagon and posting ridiculous comments do not have an iPhone 4S. All you have to do is ask Siri where you can get an abortion as I did when I first saw the story. It pulled up a map to the nearest abortion clinic. DONE! That is likely what happens 99% of the time. Tell Siri you want a hamburger and see how many false hits you get. No story, there.



    This just shows how disruptive Siri is to a lot of companies that they would stoop so low and search so hard for something, anything to use against this technology. These are people who just want to create negative headlines. Truth, be damned! Siri is a threat to Google, 411, and any number of entities. I bet a little investigative reporting would reveal the competitor's finger prints on this latest non-scandal.
  • Reply 54 of 97
    if Siri did tell everyone where the abortion places were.....maybe you would not be here to read this!
  • Reply 55 of 97
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by libertyforall View Post


    Let's see, birth CONTROL -- condoms, the pill, abstinence... and there are other options, but nothing is perfect, well except abstinence... So, do people really want Siri to find them an abortion? That just sounds like an abortion of a feature. :roll eyes:



    The first thing people should do, is try to be more responsible...



    it has to be mentioned that abstinence (which you are somewhat heavily promoting here), is actually the worst and least reliable method of birth control.



    There are literally thousands of studies showing how promoting abstinence as a cure for unwanted pregnancy not only regularly fails, but actually increases the likelihood of unwanted pregnancies.



    People like sex. They always have. It's a biological urge/need.



    Advising them to just "not do it" is possibly the worst most doomed-to-failure kind of advice you could give anyone contemplating these issues. Even if they manage to avoid penis/vagina penetration, the average person will still masturbate every couple of days or so at least so they are still "having sex" even if they are church going Christians living alone.



    It's like asking people not to fart.
  • Reply 56 of 97
    jetzjetz Posts: 1,293member
    Unintentional? I don't think so.



    http://amaditalks.tumblr.com/post/13513981784/siri





    After seeing the testing this woman put it through. It's quite clear that Apple has purposely excluded reproductive health centres, abortion clinics, places to get birth control and possibly even rape crisis centres from Siri. I was inclined to believe Apple before I saw that post. But from that post, it's pretty obvious that there's some intentional denial or misdirection going on. Either on the part of Apple or the engines feeding Siri (Wolfram Alpha).



    The part that's particularly sickening is how Siri responds to the input, "I've been raped."
  • Reply 57 of 97
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,363member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    The version of Carrier IQ on iOS is not the root kit version Android has, allows the user to opt out, and isn't logging keystrokes:



    http://blog.chpwn.com/post/13572216737



    Apparently "open" isn't always better, especially when "open" is just marketing propaganda like with Android, or means "open to all sorts of abuses".



    At this point, no one yet knows what Carrier IQ is doing for certain. The only thing that's clear is Apple also has some agreement with Carrier IQ. Oddly it's not resident on any of the Nexus devices which use a "pure" version of Android. Wouldn't that be an indication that Carrier IQ isn't part of Android itself but more likely installed as part of an agreement with device manufacturers and the carriers, Apple included?



    Anonymouse, so we don't derail this thread any further, would you like to start a new thread to discuss Carrier IQ? I'll watch for it.



    On topic, Siri will only get better. Great move in purchasing the company and improving the feature so quickly.
  • Reply 58 of 97
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ronbo View Post


    This.



    But to be fair (or not), it's the ACLU. They don't get upset. They stay upset and are continually finding things to justify why.



    On the other hand, what do you expect? They are a left-wing organisation that still believes in the original principles of freedom, yet they exist in a fascist country run by feckless capitalists with no governor on their actions at all.



    Kind of stands to reason they'd be mad most of the time. I would be too if I lived in the USA.
  • Reply 59 of 97
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jetz View Post


    Unintentional? I don't think so.



    http://amaditalks.tumblr.com/post/13513981784/siri





    After seeing the testing this woman put it through. It's quite clear that Apple has purposely excluded reproductive health centres, abortion clinics, places to get birth control and possibly even rape crisis centres from Siri.



    Funny how I put in 'abortion' into Yelp and get Planned Parenthood as the first hit in New York, NY.So where exactly is Apple taking the Yelp results and intentionally altering them to exclude certain Yelp results whilst excluding others as a way to support a political agenda? That just sounds ridiculous!
  • Reply 60 of 97
    jetzjetz Posts: 1,293member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by libertyforall View Post


    Let's see, birth CONTROL -- condoms, the pill, abstinence... and there are other options, but nothing is perfect, well except abstinence... So, do people really want Siri to find them an abortion? That just sounds like an abortion of a feature. :roll eyes:



    The first thing people should do, is try to be more responsible...



    Wait. So it's cool when Siri gives you a list of escort services if you say, "I'm horny." But if you tell Siri you've been raped and it doesn't believe you and won't even give you the option of a web search or help finding a rape crisis centre, that's people over-reacting? Wow.
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