Apple defends Siri abortion, birth control omissions as unintentional

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 97
    jetzjetz Posts: 1,293member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    Funny how I put in 'abortion' into Yelp and get Planned Parenthood as the first hit in New York, NY.So where exactly is Apple taking the Yelp results and intentionally altering them to exclude certain Yelp results whilst excluding others as a way to support a political agenda? That just sounds ridiculous!





    Did you read the whole article? I suggest you do before you comment.



    And I'm not suggesting Apple has any political agenda. It's quite possible that some overzealous programmer decided to excluded any overtly sexual issue or topic from Siri and effectively excluded all information or sexual or reproductive health.



    Finding an abortion clinic is not the worst of it. I find it far more disturbing that Siri won't help when somebody's been raped.
  • Reply 62 of 97
    jetzjetz Posts: 1,293member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post


    That's what I've been wondering. So here's the scenario...



    Siri is asked for help locating an abortion clinic. This is not like looking up a number in the phone book. You are asking an artificial intelligence, programmed by Apple, to give you information. Something goes terrible wrong at the clinic supplied by Siri. The clinic gets sued. I'm betting the lawyers would try to sue Apple too. And don't say it would be impossible for such a lawsuit to succeed.



    This scenario, of course, could be applied to many other recommendations from Siri. Like asking for an auto repair shop, a medical professional, a lawyer, etc. We are told all the time that the law is always far behind the technology.



    Nonsense. Does Google get sued when medical procedures go wrong because somebody found the clinic on their search engine?



    If it did happen, the suit would be dismissed rather quickly.
  • Reply 63 of 97
    jetzjetz Posts: 1,293member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


    And if it DID direct people to abortion clinics? You'd have the pro-life "rights groups" and "bloggers" having a fit. Apple should have responded like this:



    "We wish we could say we're surprised. But we're not. Let's get this straight: You're complaining about not being to find abortion services on your PHONE!? Did you need an abortion that badly and quickly that you couldn't find a laptop or a phonebook to look up your nearest fetus extraction center? Look folks, we gotta be honest here....you people are all freakin' bananas. Oh, and consider this: Without us you wouldn't even THINK about searching for abortion clinics on your phone. You'd still be using a Moto RAZR with "mobile web", downloading data at a whopping 6 KB a second. So we'd rather you just say thank you, and be on your way. Freaks."



    FUD. Do anti-abortion activists protest outside Yellow Pages, Google and Yahoo offices? All those help you find abortion clinics pretty easily.
  • Reply 64 of 97
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jetz View Post


    Did you read the whole article? I suggest you do before you comment.



    And I'm not suggesting Apple has any political agenda. It's quite possible that some overzealous programmer decided to excluded any overtly sexual issue or topic from Siri and effectively excluded all information or sexual or reproductive health.



    Again, Siri queries what it thinks is the most appropriate search engine. As I noted, check out Yelp to see what 'abortion' brings up. I checked it for NYC and got Planned Parenthood as a response. If you don't see what Yelp did because these are businesses that want wide advertisement nor how Siri queried Yelp then you are just choosing to be obtuse.



    Quote:

    Finding an abortion clinic is not the worst of it. I find it far more disturbing that Siri won't help when somebody's been raped.



    This is fucking ridiculous. Siri won't help with rape? It's been out for less than 2 months, it's in Beta,yet you are suggesting that Siri is choosing to ignore rape. This isn't just you saying Apple has a pro-life agenda, this is you suggesting that Apple encourages rape.



    This screenshot is what has you all upset?You do realize that is just one of many default responses to any simple sentence starting off with "I am," "I was," and the like. There is no agenda. There is no evil programmer sitting in Apple's evil headquarters lying to you about how Siri works to then secretly support rape as a way of life.
  • Reply 65 of 97
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,677member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    At this point, no one yet knows what Carrier IQ is doing for certain. The only thing that's clear is Apple also has some agreement with Carrier IQ. Oddly it's not resident on any of the Nexus devices which use a "pure" version of Android. Wouldn't that be an indication that Carrier IQ isn't part of Android itself but more likely installed as part of an agreement with device manufacturers and the carriers, Apple included?...



    You're simply ignoring the evidence. It's pretty clear what it is doing on both Android and iOS and it's pretty clear that it's relatively benign on iOS and pretty malignant on Android. You might have an argument regarding Google's "innocence" and "pure" Android, as you call it, if it weren't for the fact that every single Android phone sold by the carriers is approved by Google. So, while Google may not have put it on the Nexus phones (at least not as a root kit like other Android phones), they are complicit in its presence and behavior on other phones, which were all approved by Google. Google knew this was going on, and chose to stay silent and allow it.
  • Reply 66 of 97
    jetzjetz Posts: 1,293member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    Again, Siri queries what it thinks is the most appropriate search engine. As I noted, check out Yelp to see what 'abortion' brings up. I checked it for NYC and got Planned Parenthood as a response. If you don't see what Yelp did because these are businesses that want wide advertisement nor how Siri queried Yelp then you are just choosing to be obtuse.



    What does Yelp have to do with anything? Read that girl's blog. She was quite explicit that Siri wouldn't serve up the name of the abortion clinic mere miles from her house. Yelp may yielf the correct (or more approximate results), but Siri wasn't feeding them to her.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    This is fucking ridiculous. Siri won't help with rape? It's been out for less than 2 months, it's in Beta,yet you are suggesting that Siri is choosing to ignore rape. This isn't just you saying Apple has a pro-life agenda, this is you suggesting that Apple encourages rape.



    You do realize that is just one of many default responses to any simple sentence starting off with "I am," "I was," and the like. There is no agenda. There is no evil programmer sitting in Apple's evil headquarters lying to you about how Siri works to then secretly support rape as a way of life.



    Sad. The lengths some people will go to defend their favourite tech giant. You don't have to answer, but you know damn well how most here would react if this response was Google's answer to the "I'm feeling lucky" button. Even if Google did it for a day....and they'd be right. This kind of stuff should not be treated as a joke or some over-reaction. Ever.



    If that's the default answer, then there's clearly been an oversight to what is undoubtedly a serious issue. Surely, Apple's programmers are smart enough to figure out there should be exceptions. They certainly made one for "I'm horny." with the list of escort services. So rape is not a good enough joke to warrant an exception? Is that it?



    Like I said, I thought the issue was overblown too until I read that woman's blog. It's quite clear from the whole series of questions she asked (you're just cherry-picking a screenshot), that there's some serious exclusion going on around anything to with sexual health. Personally, I think that just has more to do with the Disney-esque nature of Apple to exclude anything to do with sex from any of their services.
  • Reply 67 of 97
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    You're simply ignoring the evidence. It's pretty clear what it is doing on both Android and iOS and it's pretty clear that it's relatively benign on iOS and pretty malignant on Android. You might have an argument regarding Google's "innocence" and "pure" Android, as you call it, if it weren't for the fact that every single Android phone sold by the carriers is approved by Google. So, while Google may not have put it on the Nexus phones (at least not as a root kit like other Android phones), they are complicit in its presence and behavior on other phones, which were all approved by Google. Google knew this was going on, and chose to stay silent and allow it.



    Of course the resident trolls are going to turn this into an argument about Carrier IQ's existence on any device is inately bad and not the severity of that existence on a device. This is an issue because of what was found recorded on an Android device.



    So far Android ? the open OS that allows carriers to add what they want then lock it down ? is the only one of the half dozen confirmed mobile OSes using Carrier IQ that has a keylogger recording everything you write. So far Carrier IQ on iOS has only recorded some basic telephony data.
  • Reply 68 of 97
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jetz View Post


    What does Yelp have to do with anything?



    Seriously? You are being for real? Siri has been well documented since October and you're asking what the location-based search engine that Siri uses to query places has to do with anything? Unbelievable!





    PS: I put "I am horny" into Yelp for NYC and get a gay bar as the first response. I put in "I was raped" and get Foot Locker. I guess that's all part of Apple's agenda.
  • Reply 69 of 97
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,365member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    You're simply ignoring the evidence. It's pretty clear what it is doing on both Android and iOS and it's pretty clear that it's relatively benign on iOS and pretty malignant on Android. You might have an argument regarding Google's "innocence" and "pure" Android, as you call it, if it weren't for the fact that every single Android phone sold by the carriers is approved by Google. So, while Google may not have put it on the Nexus phones (at least not as a root kit like other Android phones), they are complicit in its presence and behavior on other phones, which were all approved by Google. Google knew this was going on, and chose to stay silent and allow it.



    You have some link indicating Google approves carrier's Android phone versions? I've never seen one. I suspect you made that one up to try and make it something both Apple and Google are complicit in. The fact that Apple has some direct agreement with Carrier IQ is fairly clear. The same can't be said about Google, tho that may only be that it hasn't been found yet.



    Again tho, this needs to be in a new thread if you want to continue the discussion.
  • Reply 70 of 97
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    You have some link indicating Google approves carrier's Android phone versions? I've never seen one. I suspect you made that one up to try and make it something both Apple and Google are complicit in. The fact that Apple has some direct agreement with Carrier IQ is fairly clear. The same can't be said about Google, tho that may only be that it hasn't been found yet.



    Carrier IQ being involved with cellphone vendors and carriers isn't an issue. Recording all data or certain kinds of data with a keylogger is the main issue.



    Saying Google isn't directly involved isn't going to remove the keylogger off other Android phones and that could hurt sales as most customers aren't going to make detailed core OS distinctions of Android models.



    PS: It doesn't matter if it's done by Google, the vendor, or the carrier since it's Google that decided to leave the door open they are approving of others doing whatever they want to the US before shipping. You can cry that you care about this freedom but this freedom to monitor and lock the system before it gets to the end user can hurt the entire platform.
  • Reply 71 of 97
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    You have some link indicating Google approves carrier's Android phone versions? I've never seen one. I suspect you made that one up to try and make it something both Apple and Google are complicit in. The fact that Apple has some direct agreement with Carrier IQ is fairly clear. The same can't be said about Google, tho that may only be that it hasn't been found yet.



    Again tho, this needs to be in a new thread if you want to continue the discussion.



    Maybe you should read through the Skyhook lawsuit documents. Pretending ignorance is no excuse.
  • Reply 72 of 97
    jetzjetz Posts: 1,293member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    Seriously? You are being for real? Siri has been well documented since October and you're asking what the location-based search engine that Siri uses to query places has to do with anything? Unbelievable!





    PS: I put "I am horny" into Yelp for NYC and get a gay bar as the first response. I put in "I was raped" and get Foot Locker. I guess that's all part of Apple's agenda.



    Apparently, Yelp can find the Allegheny sexual health clinic but Siri can't. The author of the original article has now followed up with another one studying the claims that it's all Yelp's fault:



    http://amaditalks.tumblr.com/post/13...38/siri-wrapup
  • Reply 73 of 97
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jetz View Post


    Apparently, Yelp can find the Allegheny sexual health clinic but Siri can't. The author of the original article has now followed up with another one studying the claims that it's all Yelp's fault:



    http://amaditalks.tumblr.com/post/13...38/siri-wrapup



    1) What happened to you being oblivious to Yelp's existence?



    2) Is Yelp's API not as robust as the web search? Is there an issue with the simple text input on Yelp v. the complex dictation Siri was given and the way the API gets info? You haven't questioned either of these things just leaned on Apple as having a political agenda despite any facts or logic that would indicate Apple would have programmed Siri to exclude abortion clinics.



    Here's a test: If you think Siri is infallible technology at parsing or that Yelp's 3rd-party API couldn't affect results then type in "Allegheny Reproductive Health Center,Pittsburgh, PA" into Maps on the iPhone since Apple using Google's mapping API for their own app. If it doesn't drop a pin for it then you can assume Apple has something against abortion clinics, but if they does then you must admit that getting data from different input methods can produce different results.
  • Reply 74 of 97
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jetz View Post


    Apparently, Yelp can find the Allegheny sexual health clinic but Siri can't. The author of the original article has now followed up with another one studying the claims that it's all Yelp's fault:



    http://amaditalks.tumblr.com/post/13...38/siri-wrapup



    The author says this:

    "And it?s clear that Yelp is definitely not a leading contender as an information source for other issues, especially health matters, even though some people are starting to leave reviews for providers there. "



    It is entirely possible (and actually likely) that Apple doesn't use Yelp for questions of that nature. To prove that point, you'd have to first figure out what source Apple uses for questions of that nature and then see if Apple was providing different results than the original source.
  • Reply 75 of 97
    ecsecs Posts: 307member
    Really disappointing that Apple will listen to this issue and will ignore all of us who claim an option to disable autosave+versions in Lion. If the point is to be politically correct, don't count on me... I use Apple because I'm politically incorrect.
  • Reply 76 of 97
    Siri isn't perfect yet. Just attention whores looking for a 10 minutes of fame.
  • Reply 77 of 97
    ...ignore Siri...ignore search engines...CALL 911!



    (at least in the States...or whatever the emergency services number is for your given country)



    Why Siri should be degraded for failing to fill in where emergency services are warranted...unbelievable. Get a clue.
  • Reply 78 of 97
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,614member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ronbo View Post


    This.



    But to be fair (or not), it's the ACLU. They don't get upset. They stay upset and are continually finding things to justify why.



    Damned ACLU. Imagine the nerve of them trying to defend the Bill of Rights and stop censorship. They're all a bunch of Reds anyways.
  • Reply 79 of 97
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 17,853member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jetz View Post


    What does Yelp have to do with anything? Read that girl's blog. She was quite explicit that Siri wouldn't serve up the name of the abortion clinic mere miles from her house. Yelp may yielf the correct (or more approximate results), but Siri wasn't feeding them to her.



    So?



    Quote:





    Sad. The lengths some people will go to defend their favourite tech giant. You don't have to answer, but you know damn well how most here would react if this response was Google's answer to the "I'm feeling lucky" button. Even if Google did it for a day....and they'd be right. This kind of stuff should not be treated as a joke or some over-reaction. Ever.



    Actually, I choose to treat it exactly like that. Because that's what it is.



    Quote:



    If that's the default answer, then there's clearly been an oversight to what is undoubtedly a serious issue. Surely, Apple's programmers are smart enough to figure out there should be exceptions. They certainly made one for "I'm horny." with the list of escort services. So rape is not a good enough joke to warrant an exception? Is that it?



    Yeah, because those two are the same. </sarcasm>



    Quote:



    Like I said, I thought the issue was overblown too until I read that woman's blog.



    I thought you might be sane until I read this post. Now I think you're a little nuts.



    Quote:

    It's quite clear from the whole series of questions she asked (you're just cherry-picking a screenshot), that there's some serious exclusion going on around anything to with sexual health. Personally, I think that just has more to do with the Disney-esque nature of Apple to exclude anything to do with sex from any of their services.



    You really don't have anything better to do with your time, do you? My God...if this is a "serious issue," I can only imagine how seriously you take things like the weather forecast and accurate DVR listings.
  • Reply 80 of 97
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 5,035member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post






    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wurm5150 View Post


    To NARAL, ACLU, and all Pro-Choice Activists:



    Here you go..







    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macspotter View Post


    Me: Siri, I want to kill my unborn.

    Siri: I found your location and will call 911 to inform the nearest police station.



    Me: Siri, my boyfriend wants me to have an abortion.

    Siri: I found two shrinks nearby.



    Me: Siri, I'm pregnant and am not sure if I want to keep my baby.

    Siri: You might consider to visit a Planned Parenthood location.



    Me: Siri, I'm pregnant and am unsure about keeping my baby.

    Siri: You might consider visiting a Right to Life location.



    Me: Siri, you really confuse me with your answers.

    Siri: I'm sorry. Does the answer '42' help you in any way.



    Me: Siri, where is the highest building nearby.

    Siri: You're not drawing any conclusions out of my previous answers, do you.



    Oooh, the intricacies.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Zozman View Post


    WOW this is lame, people can't be responsible for their own actions....Siri made me do it



    Honestly, this is not funny and I think Apple should steer clear of this and similar subjects. People are stupid and imagine some teen asking siri the pregnant question and depending on their location and the third party services what the end answer could be and the end results. This is filled with possible bad outcome.



    As the founder of Siri said, this program is highly dependent on third part services and their database of information, as we all know on the web you can not trust the information. Also these database usually have information base on companies willingness to pay to have their information show up first like Google ad words.



    Do you think not for profit help groups are expending lots of money to make sure they show up first when you do a search, hell no, so the risk that a organization who is design to help people one way or another showing up at the top of a Siri recommendation is very low.



    With that said it is probably in Apple's interest not to let the phone answer the question it should refer the person to their Dr, parent or religious advisory and leave it at that.



    It no different than people trying to sue Marilyn Manson say his songs cause their kids to kill themselves. People tend to want to blame others and Sire is a perfect candidate for that.
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