It's not often that you see someone as eager as you seem to be to prove that they don't know what they're talking about.
What do you think it means to say that institutional investors own 70% of Apple? It means that they are holding the shares for other investors. They may have index funds or managed funds, but the shares of those funds are owned by individual investors.
Ultimately, virtually ALL stock (at least in the U.S.) is owned for the benefit of individual investors.
wouldn't be great not having to every worry about loosing/finding a job?
I am an engineer, and I work as a consultant. I believe everyone, EVERYONE is worried about loosing it job (at least on some level).
I don't give a crapt about having a cool phone, a reading/playing/touching pad, or a light laptop if that would mean I would not have to worry about getting a job.
F4ck the system... let's all work on building an Anti-matter engine, and produce food in mass quantity!. All our problems will eventually go away.
If you are given a choice of feeding a starving child and giving a child another jacket - which one you will do?
I agree that the Chinese workers are not enjoying all the benefits of their US counterparts and they are paid poorly ($1 per hour). However, think for a moment if they do not earn this $1. They will starve, they will have nothing to feed themselves, their families. I know you may say that it's not Apple's headche. Then why should it be Apple's headache to create more middle class jobs in the US, provide more means to waste food that can feed some entire nations?
If you, US people are so inclined to "save" peoples by bombing them, you should tolerate a little downgrade in your lifestyle to support your genorous help for those who need it.
Again, ignorance abounds. Apple, in comparison to EVERY OTHER COMPANY ON THE PLANET has acted in a responsible, humanitarian manner to improve the situation for overseas workers. I challenge you to name one company that has done more.
I challenge you to name one company that has done more. I challenge you to name one company that releases annual audit reports and shows that poor conditions have been addressed and corrected.
If Apple could first create assembly factories in the USA and then gradually move the parts manufacturing here it would get the ball rolling. If they started the assembly here, local companies would spring up to supply parts. That is how it works. That is how it works in China too. Apple could take the first step by assembling iPods here and then other products.
It would take much less money to ship containers of parts to the USA than individually boxed products. In time those parts would be coming from within the USA.
All of the benefits Apple claims are in China would become the norm in the USA in time.
From the article:
"One Apple executive defended Apple's decision to produce iPhones overseas by noting that the device is sold in more than a hundred countries. ?We don?t have an obligation to solve America?s problems. Our only obligation is making the best product possible,? the executive said."
It is true that there is no morality requirement within any corporate structure. That comes form leadership. Leaders show us their morality in the ways they operate their businesses. Apple claims a moral high ground every time they proclaim how environmentally friendly their products are made. They do that also when they look into labor practices in China and publicize it. So when an Apple executive says they don't have an obligation to solve Americas problems, it is a lapse in moral judgement.
If Apple wants to play the morals game, then they should be all in and start helping the nation where they sell their products. I know that China is the new market that will dwarf the US market soon. If they want to abandon the USA then they might as well move all of Apple to China. At least that way they can claim to be supporting their home country. I wonder what the Chinese government would do to Apple if it were based there. Would they start ordering Apple to make products for the government for free? Would they tell Apple it could no longer sell the good products to the foreign markets? Who knows what a communist government would do to them.
Apple has freedom in the USA. They should support that freedom by manufacturing products in the USA.
1) It did not have a meaningful effect on job creation.
2) It only convinced companies to hold off as long as possible until the government finally gave in to demands.
3) Finally, and most importantly, it renewed companies interest in moving jobs OUT of America (no need to create factories or jobs in the US) since their profits generated overseas will, eventually, be collected (with lower tax no less). Plus, as a bonus, lower labor costs in other countries with fewer regulations further beefing up their bottom lines are just iceing on the cake.
Dont fall for it US Government (most likely they will).
The state of America's global competitiveness is looking bleaker and bleaker as the years go by.
This outsourcing movement isnt just happening in the manufacturing sector. Its also happening, increasingly, in the service sector as well ( accounting, design, product development etc. ).
Soon, an "American" company will only be a shell with its legal entity headquartered in the US, while the bulk (perhaps >90% of the operational assets will be in a foreign country. Would you still consider that as an "American" company?
"Buy American"..... right?
In closing, who gives a crap about Americans and their welfare, as long as I'm making my shareholders happy with capital gains in their stocks, its all good right? At the same time, if I can pay as low tax as possible, screw the government too.
1) It did not have a meaningful effect on job creation.
2) It only convinced companies to hold off as long as possible until the government finally gave in to demands.
3) Finally, and most importantly, it renewed companies interest in moving jobs OUT of America (no need to create factories or jobs in the US) since their profits generated overseas will, eventually, be collected (with lower tax no less). Plus, as a bonus, lower labor costs in other countries with fewer regulations further beefing up their bottom lines are just iceing on the cake.
Dont fall for it US Government (most likely they will).
The state of America's global competitiveness is looking bleaker and bleaker as the years go by.
This outsourcing movement isnt just happening in the manufacturing sector. Its also happening, increasingly, in the service sector as well ( accounting, design, product development etc. ).
Soon, an "American" company will only be a shell with its legal entity headquartered in the US, while the bulk (perhaps >90% of the operational assets will be in a foreign country. Would you still consider that as an "American" company?
"Buy American"..... right?
In closing, who gives a crap about Americans and their welfare, as long as I'm making my shareholders happy with capital gains in their stocks, its all good right? At the same time, if I can pay as low tax as possible, screw the government too.
Wow... I hope I never have as little to look forward to as you do... Sad!
The state of America's global competitiveness is looking bleaker and bleaker as the years go by.
This outsourcing movement isnt just happening in the manufacturing sector. Its also happening, increasingly, in the service sector as well ( accounting, design, product development etc. ).
Soon, an "American" company will only be a shell with its legal entity headquartered in the US, while the bulk (perhaps >90% of the operational assets will be in a foreign country. Would you still consider that as an "American" company?
American interests are no longer about people of America. Its just about the WallStreet and its thugs. Sorry for this more generic statement, in no sense I'm talking about Apple here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi
"Buy American"..... right?
In closing, who gives a crap about Americans and their welfare, as long as I'm making my shareholders happy with capital gains in their stocks, its all good right? At the same time, if I can pay as low tax as possible, screw the government too.
As long as Americans own that Lockheed Martin and Boeing, and extract oil 'for' other nations (allies) they can still make money by threatening the world of wars. It feels good for some people to strike off some nations from the map once every re-election time.
SOPA/PIPA is all about war. they can manufacture everything outside the USA and keep a close vigil on American IP. Someone violating the IP will be invaded and all their natural resources captured (polite replacement for word 'stolen').
I just hope Apple one day will not become Monsanto.
If production in China is so advantageous why is Foxconn building an iPad factory in Brazil? Does Brazil also have some major manufacturing advantage over the US?
Why don't you google that. You'll find the answer very quickly.
It's not often that you see someone as eager as you seem to be to prove that they don't know what they're talking about.
What do you think it means to say that institutional investors own 70% of Apple? It means that they are holding the shares for other investors. They may have index funds or managed funds, but the shares of those funds are owned by individual investors.
Ultimately, virtually ALL stock (at least in the U.S.) is owned for the benefit of individual investors.
No no, he thinks Goldman Sachs is out there putting 10B into Apple shares and hoping to make a profit when the stock goes up. That someone at GS is sitting there trying to decide what GS should buy for itself. And he ACTUALLY BELIEVES THAT. Sadly, I'd bet most of those dummies protesting wall street believe the same thing. Those wall street fat cats!
Right. Do you understand what business Vangard is in? Try googling it and see what their main product line is. The same goes for the rest of those companies.
What exactly do you think "institutional" investors do? What do you think CALPERS does?
If you don't know the answers to those questions, you should not be participating in this debate until you educate yourself. Ignorance is not helpful here.
A July 2008 investigation by Australian Channel 7 News found a large number of cases involving forced labour in one of the largest Nike apparel factories. The factory located in Malaysia was filmed by an undercover crew who found instances of squalid living conditions and forced labour. Nike have since stated that they will take corrective action to ensure the abuse does not continue.[30]
As of July 2011, Nike stated that two-thirds of its factories producing Converse products still do not meet the company's standards for worker treatment. A July 2011 Associated Press article stated that employees at the company's plants in Indonesia reported constant abuse from supervisors.[31]
Here, this story is the latest news on the Indonesia affair. It is one week old:
Nike does more than Apple, but by their own admission two thirds of their suppliers for Converse (owned by Nike since 2003 -- plenty of time to fix problems) don't meet their own standards? How does that work? Seems that unlike Apple, they are either completely ineffective at correcting problems, or they really don't care all that much.
Definitely not better than Apple in that regard.
Next? How about the Gap? How their own bylaws allow child labor in certain circumstances where Apple's prohibit the same? How about that?
It's called 'Globalization' folks. Labor is sent to where it's cheapest and capital where it can get the highest returns. Unfortunately, the semi-skilled or unskilled US worker is going to get the short end of the stick. Even if they could be trained to do these jobs, it's simply cheaper and more efficient to use foreign labor. Some parts of the US will do better than others. Namely, high-tech centers, such as Silicon Valley, and finance-centric centers such as NYC. The industrial Mid-West and parts of the South have been especially hard hit. Our political system doesn't have answers and our public education systems are ill-equipt as well. This is simply the new reality...
Comments
It's not often that you see someone as eager as you seem to be to prove that they don't know what they're talking about.
What do you think it means to say that institutional investors own 70% of Apple? It means that they are holding the shares for other investors. They may have index funds or managed funds, but the shares of those funds are owned by individual investors.
Ultimately, virtually ALL stock (at least in the U.S.) is owned for the benefit of individual investors.
According to http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mh?s=AAPL+Major+Holders the top Institutional Holders dwarf the top Mutual Fund holders.
I am an engineer, and I work as a consultant. I believe everyone, EVERYONE is worried about loosing it job (at least on some level).
I don't give a crapt about having a cool phone, a reading/playing/touching pad, or a light laptop if that would mean I would not have to worry about getting a job.
F4ck the system... let's all work on building an Anti-matter engine, and produce food in mass quantity!. All our problems will eventually go away.
In other words I'm waiting or AI to post the story.
I agree that the Chinese workers are not enjoying all the benefits of their US counterparts and they are paid poorly ($1 per hour). However, think for a moment if they do not earn this $1. They will starve, they will have nothing to feed themselves, their families. I know you may say that it's not Apple's headche. Then why should it be Apple's headache to create more middle class jobs in the US, provide more means to waste food that can feed some entire nations?
If you, US people are so inclined to "save" peoples by bombing them, you should tolerate a little downgrade in your lifestyle to support your genorous help for those who need it.
Again, ignorance abounds. Apple, in comparison to EVERY OTHER COMPANY ON THE PLANET has acted in a responsible, humanitarian manner to improve the situation for overseas workers. I challenge you to name one company that has done more.
Here's one:
http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/values/
Want a few hundred more? Look here:
http://fairtradeusa.org/products-partners
I wanted th Giants to beat the 49ers...
But this is shit... We won... But what just happened here?
The guys that won the toss for the 15 minute overtime -- could not win by scoring a field goal...
...but the guys that lost the toss -- could!
How do you coach that?
A really pissed winning fan!
I challenge you to name one company that has done more. I challenge you to name one company that releases annual audit reports and shows that poor conditions have been addressed and corrected.
Nike.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels
If Apple could first create assembly factories in the USA and then gradually move the parts manufacturing here it would get the ball rolling. If they started the assembly here, local companies would spring up to supply parts. That is how it works. That is how it works in China too. Apple could take the first step by assembling iPods here and then other products.
It would take much less money to ship containers of parts to the USA than individually boxed products. In time those parts would be coming from within the USA.
All of the benefits Apple claims are in China would become the norm in the USA in time.
From the article:
"One Apple executive defended Apple's decision to produce iPhones overseas by noting that the device is sold in more than a hundred countries. ?We don?t have an obligation to solve America?s problems. Our only obligation is making the best product possible,? the executive said."
It is true that there is no morality requirement within any corporate structure. That comes form leadership. Leaders show us their morality in the ways they operate their businesses. Apple claims a moral high ground every time they proclaim how environmentally friendly their products are made. They do that also when they look into labor practices in China and publicize it. So when an Apple executive says they don't have an obligation to solve Americas problems, it is a lapse in moral judgement.
If Apple wants to play the morals game, then they should be all in and start helping the nation where they sell their products. I know that China is the new market that will dwarf the US market soon. If they want to abandon the USA then they might as well move all of Apple to China. At least that way they can claim to be supporting their home country. I wonder what the Chinese government would do to Apple if it were based there. Would they start ordering Apple to make products for the government for free? Would they tell Apple it could no longer sell the good products to the foreign markets? Who knows what a communist government would do to them.
Apple has freedom in the USA. They should support that freedom by manufacturing products in the USA.
I don't know how to respond to that...
1) It did not have a meaningful effect on job creation.
2) It only convinced companies to hold off as long as possible until the government finally gave in to demands.
3) Finally, and most importantly, it renewed companies interest in moving jobs OUT of America (no need to create factories or jobs in the US) since their profits generated overseas will, eventually, be collected (with lower tax no less). Plus, as a bonus, lower labor costs in other countries with fewer regulations further beefing up their bottom lines are just iceing on the cake.
Dont fall for it US Government (most likely they will).
The state of America's global competitiveness is looking bleaker and bleaker as the years go by.
This outsourcing movement isnt just happening in the manufacturing sector. Its also happening, increasingly, in the service sector as well ( accounting, design, product development etc. ).
Soon, an "American" company will only be a shell with its legal entity headquartered in the US, while the bulk (perhaps >90% of the operational assets will be in a foreign country. Would you still consider that as an "American" company?
"Buy American"..... right?
In closing, who gives a crap about Americans and their welfare, as long as I'm making my shareholders happy with capital gains in their stocks, its all good right? At the same time, if I can pay as low tax as possible, screw the government too.
Absolutely false. Apple exists to maximize value for SHAREHOLDERS. Of which essentially none live on Wall Street.
If Steve were around, he'd say Apple exists to make the best products in the world.
And I would believe it.
Wow, that dinner looks like... like a disaster...
That looks like Apple demolishing someone for patent infringement!
Tax holiday was used in the past.
1) It did not have a meaningful effect on job creation.
2) It only convinced companies to hold off as long as possible until the government finally gave in to demands.
3) Finally, and most importantly, it renewed companies interest in moving jobs OUT of America (no need to create factories or jobs in the US) since their profits generated overseas will, eventually, be collected (with lower tax no less). Plus, as a bonus, lower labor costs in other countries with fewer regulations further beefing up their bottom lines are just iceing on the cake.
Dont fall for it US Government (most likely they will).
The state of America's global competitiveness is looking bleaker and bleaker as the years go by.
This outsourcing movement isnt just happening in the manufacturing sector. Its also happening, increasingly, in the service sector as well ( accounting, design, product development etc. ).
Soon, an "American" company will only be a shell with its legal entity headquartered in the US, while the bulk (perhaps >90% of the operational assets will be in a foreign country. Would you still consider that as an "American" company?
"Buy American"..... right?
In closing, who gives a crap about Americans and their welfare, as long as I'm making my shareholders happy with capital gains in their stocks, its all good right? At the same time, if I can pay as low tax as possible, screw the government too.
Wow... I hope I never have as little to look forward to as you do... Sad!
If Steve were around, he'd say Apple exists to make the best products in the world.
And I would believe it.
You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.
--Abraham Lincoln
Tax holiday was used in the past.
......
The state of America's global competitiveness is looking bleaker and bleaker as the years go by.
This outsourcing movement isnt just happening in the manufacturing sector. Its also happening, increasingly, in the service sector as well ( accounting, design, product development etc. ).
Soon, an "American" company will only be a shell with its legal entity headquartered in the US, while the bulk (perhaps >90% of the operational assets will be in a foreign country. Would you still consider that as an "American" company?
American interests are no longer about people of America. Its just about the WallStreet and its thugs. Sorry for this more generic statement, in no sense I'm talking about Apple here.
"Buy American"..... right?
In closing, who gives a crap about Americans and their welfare, as long as I'm making my shareholders happy with capital gains in their stocks, its all good right? At the same time, if I can pay as low tax as possible, screw the government too.
As long as Americans own that Lockheed Martin and Boeing, and extract oil 'for' other nations (allies) they can still make money by threatening the world of wars. It feels good for some people to strike off some nations from the map once every re-election time.
SOPA/PIPA is all about war. they can manufacture everything outside the USA and keep a close vigil on American IP. Someone violating the IP will be invaded and all their natural resources captured (polite replacement for word 'stolen').
I just hope Apple one day will not become Monsanto.
If production in China is so advantageous why is Foxconn building an iPad factory in Brazil? Does Brazil also have some major manufacturing advantage over the US?
Why don't you google that. You'll find the answer very quickly.
Here's one:
http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/values/
Surprise!
Oh, but it gets better.
Now have fun living on Kepler 22-b when you get there.
It's not often that you see someone as eager as you seem to be to prove that they don't know what they're talking about.
What do you think it means to say that institutional investors own 70% of Apple? It means that they are holding the shares for other investors. They may have index funds or managed funds, but the shares of those funds are owned by individual investors.
Ultimately, virtually ALL stock (at least in the U.S.) is owned for the benefit of individual investors.
No no, he thinks Goldman Sachs is out there putting 10B into Apple shares and hoping to make a profit when the stock goes up. That someone at GS is sitting there trying to decide what GS should buy for itself. And he ACTUALLY BELIEVES THAT. Sadly, I'd bet most of those dummies protesting wall street believe the same thing. Those wall street fat cats!
According to http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mh?s=AAPL+Major+Holders the top Institutional Holders dwarf the top Mutual Fund holders.
Right. Do you understand what business Vangard is in? Try googling it and see what their main product line is. The same goes for the rest of those companies.
What exactly do you think "institutional" investors do? What do you think CALPERS does?
If you don't know the answers to those questions, you should not be participating in this debate until you educate yourself. Ignorance is not helpful here.
Nike.
Wikipedia
- A July 2008 investigation by Australian Channel 7 News found a large number of cases involving forced labour in one of the largest Nike apparel factories. The factory located in Malaysia was filmed by an undercover crew who found instances of squalid living conditions and forced labour. Nike have since stated that they will take corrective action to ensure the abuse does not continue.[30]
Here, this story is the latest news on the Indonesia affair. It is one week old:As of July 2011, Nike stated that two-thirds of its factories producing Converse products still do not meet the company's standards for worker treatment. A July 2011 Associated Press article stated that employees at the company's plants in Indonesia reported constant abuse from supervisors.[31]
http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/busin...vertime/490684
Nike does more than Apple, but by their own admission two thirds of their suppliers for Converse (owned by Nike since 2003 -- plenty of time to fix problems) don't meet their own standards? How does that work? Seems that unlike Apple, they are either completely ineffective at correcting problems, or they really don't care all that much.
Definitely not better than Apple in that regard.
Next? How about the Gap? How their own bylaws allow child labor in certain circumstances where Apple's prohibit the same? How about that?