I doubt it. ANY interface change was bound to bring heat from people who frankly, don't want to relearn the skill set they've had for years. That's one of two big hangups people have had-
1- Feature incomplete
2- New way of working and thinking
(also) 3- the meme that Apple has become a toy company and isn't interested in pros
Apple was as open as they ever are (therefore not much) upon the release of FCPX in June. But people were rebuffed at the way Apple approached this release, so Apple is going to take a hit in the short term. That's the tradeoff for their secrecy.
I would go further and say it's all down to your number 2.
It's basically the "old fart" effect. A lot of 40 something editors that have always done things the same way just don't want to learn a whole new approach.
I saw the same thing happen in the non-pro market when they brought out the new iMovie. Huge numbers of people clung to "iMovie HD" (the old iMovie 6), for dear life for many years afterwards. It's a confusing new paradigm for the older folks, they don't understand it, and it makes them mad so they lash out with all this BS about features and compatibility.
They knew the missing features would be added back in ASAP and now they have been. There never was any reason to "switch back to Avid" other than spite (and fear).
"Better" is quite subjective, especially before this update. However, it certainly does do everything DIFFERENTLY. And most editing professionals don't have the time or energy to establish a completely different workflow. Which is why I don't know many that switched to FCPX or Pemiere for that matter.
This says a lot right here. I've seen people complain in the same sentence that they don't have time to adapt to a new "consumer" UI and in the same breath threaten to switch to Adobe or Avid.
A lot of the negativity was just blowing smoke. Everyone knew Apple was adding these missing features back, it was just a question of when. Now that they're here, what does everyone have to complain about now?
I doubt it. ANY interface change was bound to bring heat from people who frankly, don't want to relearn the skill set they've had for years.
Pardon me for being unsympathetic, but boo hoo, too freakin' bad. Who doesn't have to relearn skills and keep up with the times? Gone are the days where you have one skill and make a 40 year career out of it.
This isn't just change for change's sake. The UI is different for a reason - take the time to learn it, and be more productive with it in the long run.
Not really. One of the biggest complaints from entrenched users was the inability to be able to import projects from previous versions of the software into new versions. For better or worst, that likely will never be redressed.
I can see the professional users view. It would be akin to not being able to open an Adobe Photoshop project you created in the last version of Photoshop in the new version. Professionals reuse their work. Time is money.
Apple's perspective is likely in order to eventually deliver a better product it had to start from scratch and get rid of the legacy stuff holding it back. Eventually Final Cut Pro X will probably be a better product (if Apple keeps selling copies).
This says a lot right here. I've seen people complain in the same sentence that they don't have time to adapt to a new "consumer" UI and in the same breath threaten to switch to Adobe or Avid.
A lot of the negativity was just blowing smoke. Everyone knew Apple was adding these missing features back, it was just a question of when. Now that they're here, what does everyone have to complain about now?
Apple goofed though because until it added the features back it should have 1) still sold the old version, and 2) supported the old version.
This says a lot right here. I've seen people complain in the same sentence that they don't have time to adapt to a new "consumer" UI and in the same breath threaten to switch to Adobe or Avid.
I'm not familiar with Avid, but the demo of Premiere Pro I downloaded had an interface incredibly similar to FCP 7. I threw together a sample project in no time flat, using many of the same editing moves I use in FCP 7. Avid is most likely closer to this style interface than FCP X, but I hear it's a steeper learning curve. Maybe some people thought that if they have to learn something new, why not learn the top of the line system?
The thing that kept me from pulling the trigger on Premiere is the fact that Adobe is so greedy with updates. Sure, I can upgrade my ancient copy of Premiere to the current version for $239 with current sale pricing, but they seem to have a paid upgrade cycle every nine months or so. And if you skip a cycle, you''ll pay even more next time around. Don't even want to think about their goofy subscription service.
We don't know how Apple will handle major upgrades yet with the App Store, but having this major upgrade as a free download is a good start.
Not really. One of the biggest complaints from entrenched users was the inability to be able to import projects from previous versions of the software into new versions. For better or worst, that likely will never be redressed.
I can see the professional users view. It would be akin to not being able to open an Adobe Photoshop project you created in the last version of Photoshop in the new version. Professionals reuse their work. Time is money.
Apple's perspective is likely in order to eventually deliver a better product it had to start from scratch and get rid of the legacy stuff holding it back. Eventually Final Cut Pro X will probably be a better product (if Apple keeps selling copies).
Not being able to import old projects does suck but I don't think it's as bad as some people think. Movie and TV productions aren't something that go ad infinitum. They begin and they end...then you begin a new project. Given that an import of and old FCP 7 project into FCP X is bound to have some mistakes, I'm not sure I'd even want a project in flight to go to a new editing tool midstream. It makes little sense.
Better to use FCP X for new projects and FCP 7 for projects already in progress. Individual components of the older project can be reused and imported into FCP X like any other new material.
I was one of the pro's originally upset by the first iteration of FinalCut X
While I was really annoyed about the missing features and apparent pro-sumer direction, I was also relieved that I didn't have to fork out $300 for the initial 'sub-par' release when I could just keep using 7 and 'wait and see'.
Most of the other pro users I know had also decided to 'wait and see'.
I always understood the disappointment others had, as I too had it, but I couldn't understand why so many seemed so quick and ready to jump onto Avid and Adobe mere days after the X announcement.
While cheap side-grades were offered, It all seemed pre-emptive and over-reactionary as well as a big switch to make so soon unless you had a software budget that needed to be spent.
I wasn't going to switch to Premiere, simply because I already owned it and it still didn't gel with me (despite the huge amount of work Adobe has put into it, shame though if you don't use a Nividia card).
If there was anything I was considering switching to it was Avid (which comes with its own issues) but I figured I could put that off for a year or so too.
Maybe, just maybe, with the threat of users moving to Avid/Adobe, Apple have finally realised that the Pro's have been steadily losing faith in Apple (I know I have). If that is the case, the over-reactionary threat to switch has proven worthwhile.
This update is good news and a move in the right direction for Apple and the pro market, which is really saying something when you consider there hasn't been a lot to be excited about in this area of the Apple business for quite some time now.
I'm not going to buy FinalCut X yet but with each minor update I'm becoming far more likely to.
This update also gives me hope that a new thunderbolt (+USB3.0?) equipped Mac Pro may be a reality but I was waiting for March and the Xeon release before I was going to get too worried about that one.
Hey it is also nice to see a story on the Apple rumour sites that isn't about a damn phone or tablet....ahhhh the good 'ol days!!
That all makes a lot of sense. The only thing I would argue is that now is a very good time to buy the new version. Install it on a small separate partition and whenever you have some down time, open it and get used to it. Then, when in the future you are comfortable with it and you feel it is ready to perform to your needs, you can pick a simple (real) project and see how it works. By this time you probably have your thunderbolt MP, and you'll be ready to hit the ground running.
At the very low price of the software I always imagined this was what Apple was thinking people would do. Their big mistake was to close down the 'old' FCP straight away. They should have announced that it would be discontinued at some point in the future and helped people transition in the meantime.
BTW, a developer has just released two apps for $9.99 each to convert 7 and X projects back and forth between the two programs. That couldn't be done before today either.
Not really. One of the biggest complaints from entrenched users was the inability to be able to import projects from previous versions of the software into new versions. For better or worst, that likely will never be redressed.
There's an app for that..."7toX" by Assisted Editing.
Pardon me for being unsympathetic, but boo hoo, too freakin' bad. Who doesn't have to relearn skills and keep up with the times? Gone are the days where you have one skill and make a 40 year career out of it.
This isn't just change for change's sake. The UI is different for a reason - take the time to learn it, and be more productive with it in the long run.
More and more I read about pros that invest the time to learn how FCP X works... with an open mind, e.g. "Learn how FCP X can do things" as opposed to "How can I make FCP X work like FCP 7?"
While many of these people cannot, yet, totally migrate to FCP X -- a common report is that FCP X makes editing Fast and Fun!
I doubt it. ANY interface change was bound to bring heat from people who frankly, don't want to relearn the skill set they've had for years. That's one of two big hangups people have had-
1- Feature incomplete
2- New way of working and thinking
(also) 3- the meme that Apple has become a toy company and isn't interested in pros
Apple was as open as they ever are (therefore not much) upon the release of FCPX in June. But people were rebuffed at the way Apple approached this release, so Apple is going to take a hit in the short term. That's the tradeoff for their secrecy.
Well said. And let's add the issue of a low level of confidence that Apple will continue to support towers.
But for those that complained, is it too little, too late and they moved on to Adobe Premiere?
/
/
/
It's only been ~7 months since FCPX was released. I would be surprised if any true pro moved to a new platform in such a short amount of time. We could argue that Apple's abrupt transition may have caused many to explore alternatives, but most pros think in 2-4 year time frames.
But how many folks were that really, compared to those that understood that this was essentially a brand new software that yes has some features missing at the moment, but would come back in one form or another as the final bugs were worked out. Just like with all new software.
I bet if we had real numbers we'd find that in fact the complaints weren't really that large of a cut of the whole.
Nice speculation, but I'd like to hear from the professional video editors. Maybe that's not that big of a number, but they were the ones hurt most by the change, and the ones who might have switched platforms.
This update also gives me hope that a new thunderbolt (+USB3.0?) equipped Mac Pro may be a reality but I was waiting for March and the Xeon release before I was going to get too worried about that one.
I also hope Apple's continuing work on pro video software means a Mac Pro update is coming. According to the macrumors.com buyers guide, this is the longest wait for a Mac Pro update since the Intel switch.
Nice speculation, but I'd like to hear from the professional video editors. Maybe that's not that big of a number, but they were the ones hurt most by the change, and the ones who might have switched platforms.
I doubt many switched. I think most like myself just stayed on FCP 7 waiting to decide. I have Premiere but now I am going to buy FCPX. We do use multi cam and I just got our titling plug in update that now works with it so I will give it a try. Plus I just upgraded to Lion on one Mac Pro so we are good to go.
Comments
I doubt it. ANY interface change was bound to bring heat from people who frankly, don't want to relearn the skill set they've had for years. That's one of two big hangups people have had-
1- Feature incomplete
2- New way of working and thinking
(also) 3- the meme that Apple has become a toy company and isn't interested in pros
Apple was as open as they ever are (therefore not much) upon the release of FCPX in June. But people were rebuffed at the way Apple approached this release, so Apple is going to take a hit in the short term. That's the tradeoff for their secrecy.
I would go further and say it's all down to your number 2.
It's basically the "old fart" effect. A lot of 40 something editors that have always done things the same way just don't want to learn a whole new approach.
I saw the same thing happen in the non-pro market when they brought out the new iMovie. Huge numbers of people clung to "iMovie HD" (the old iMovie 6), for dear life for many years afterwards. It's a confusing new paradigm for the older folks, they don't understand it, and it makes them mad so they lash out with all this BS about features and compatibility.
They knew the missing features would be added back in ASAP and now they have been. There never was any reason to "switch back to Avid" other than spite (and fear).
"Better" is quite subjective, especially before this update. However, it certainly does do everything DIFFERENTLY. And most editing professionals don't have the time or energy to establish a completely different workflow. Which is why I don't know many that switched to FCPX or Pemiere for that matter.
This says a lot right here. I've seen people complain in the same sentence that they don't have time to adapt to a new "consumer" UI and in the same breath threaten to switch to Adobe or Avid.
A lot of the negativity was just blowing smoke. Everyone knew Apple was adding these missing features back, it was just a question of when. Now that they're here, what does everyone have to complain about now?
I doubt it. ANY interface change was bound to bring heat from people who frankly, don't want to relearn the skill set they've had for years.
Pardon me for being unsympathetic, but boo hoo, too freakin' bad. Who doesn't have to relearn skills and keep up with the times? Gone are the days where you have one skill and make a 40 year career out of it.
This isn't just change for change's sake. The UI is different for a reason - take the time to learn it, and be more productive with it in the long run.
All fixed.
Not really. One of the biggest complaints from entrenched users was the inability to be able to import projects from previous versions of the software into new versions. For better or worst, that likely will never be redressed.
I can see the professional users view. It would be akin to not being able to open an Adobe Photoshop project you created in the last version of Photoshop in the new version. Professionals reuse their work. Time is money.
Apple's perspective is likely in order to eventually deliver a better product it had to start from scratch and get rid of the legacy stuff holding it back. Eventually Final Cut Pro X will probably be a better product (if Apple keeps selling copies).
This says a lot right here. I've seen people complain in the same sentence that they don't have time to adapt to a new "consumer" UI and in the same breath threaten to switch to Adobe or Avid.
A lot of the negativity was just blowing smoke. Everyone knew Apple was adding these missing features back, it was just a question of when. Now that they're here, what does everyone have to complain about now?
Apple goofed though because until it added the features back it should have 1) still sold the old version, and 2) supported the old version.
This says a lot right here. I've seen people complain in the same sentence that they don't have time to adapt to a new "consumer" UI and in the same breath threaten to switch to Adobe or Avid.
I'm not familiar with Avid, but the demo of Premiere Pro I downloaded had an interface incredibly similar to FCP 7. I threw together a sample project in no time flat, using many of the same editing moves I use in FCP 7. Avid is most likely closer to this style interface than FCP X, but I hear it's a steeper learning curve. Maybe some people thought that if they have to learn something new, why not learn the top of the line system?
The thing that kept me from pulling the trigger on Premiere is the fact that Adobe is so greedy with updates. Sure, I can upgrade my ancient copy of Premiere to the current version for $239 with current sale pricing, but they seem to have a paid upgrade cycle every nine months or so. And if you skip a cycle, you''ll pay even more next time around. Don't even want to think about their goofy subscription service.
We don't know how Apple will handle major upgrades yet with the App Store, but having this major upgrade as a free download is a good start.
Not really. One of the biggest complaints from entrenched users was the inability to be able to import projects from previous versions of the software into new versions. For better or worst, that likely will never be redressed.
I can see the professional users view. It would be akin to not being able to open an Adobe Photoshop project you created in the last version of Photoshop in the new version. Professionals reuse their work. Time is money.
Apple's perspective is likely in order to eventually deliver a better product it had to start from scratch and get rid of the legacy stuff holding it back. Eventually Final Cut Pro X will probably be a better product (if Apple keeps selling copies).
Not being able to import old projects does suck but I don't think it's as bad as some people think. Movie and TV productions aren't something that go ad infinitum. They begin and they end...then you begin a new project. Given that an import of and old FCP 7 project into FCP X is bound to have some mistakes, I'm not sure I'd even want a project in flight to go to a new editing tool midstream. It makes little sense.
Better to use FCP X for new projects and FCP 7 for projects already in progress. Individual components of the older project can be reused and imported into FCP X like any other new material.
Apple goofed though because until it added the features back it should have 1) still sold the old version, and 2) supported the old version.
Apple stopped selling displays that work with ANY Mac Pro, and you don't see anyone really complaining about that.
I was one of the pro's originally upset by the first iteration of FinalCut X
While I was really annoyed about the missing features and apparent pro-sumer direction, I was also relieved that I didn't have to fork out $300 for the initial 'sub-par' release when I could just keep using 7 and 'wait and see'.
Most of the other pro users I know had also decided to 'wait and see'.
I always understood the disappointment others had, as I too had it, but I couldn't understand why so many seemed so quick and ready to jump onto Avid and Adobe mere days after the X announcement.
While cheap side-grades were offered, It all seemed pre-emptive and over-reactionary as well as a big switch to make so soon unless you had a software budget that needed to be spent.
I wasn't going to switch to Premiere, simply because I already owned it and it still didn't gel with me (despite the huge amount of work Adobe has put into it, shame though if you don't use a Nividia card).
If there was anything I was considering switching to it was Avid (which comes with its own issues) but I figured I could put that off for a year or so too.
Maybe, just maybe, with the threat of users moving to Avid/Adobe, Apple have finally realised that the Pro's have been steadily losing faith in Apple (I know I have). If that is the case, the over-reactionary threat to switch has proven worthwhile.
This update is good news and a move in the right direction for Apple and the pro market, which is really saying something when you consider there hasn't been a lot to be excited about in this area of the Apple business for quite some time now.
I'm not going to buy FinalCut X yet but with each minor update I'm becoming far more likely to.
This update also gives me hope that a new thunderbolt (+USB3.0?) equipped Mac Pro may be a reality but I was waiting for March and the Xeon release before I was going to get too worried about that one.
Hey it is also nice to see a story on the Apple rumour sites that isn't about a damn phone or tablet....ahhhh the good 'ol days!!
That all makes a lot of sense. The only thing I would argue is that now is a very good time to buy the new version. Install it on a small separate partition and whenever you have some down time, open it and get used to it. Then, when in the future you are comfortable with it and you feel it is ready to perform to your needs, you can pick a simple (real) project and see how it works. By this time you probably have your thunderbolt MP, and you'll be ready to hit the ground running.
At the very low price of the software I always imagined this was what Apple was thinking people would do. Their big mistake was to close down the 'old' FCP straight away. They should have announced that it would be discontinued at some point in the future and helped people transition in the meantime.
You couldn't say that 7 months ago.
BTW, a developer has just released two apps for $9.99 each to convert 7 and X projects back and forth between the two programs. That couldn't be done before today either.
What are the names of these 2 apps?
What are the names of these 2 apps?
The new 7toX app from Intelligent Assistance uses XML to import Final Cut Pro 7 projects into Final Cut Pro X.
Right there.
And vice versa.
Not really. One of the biggest complaints from entrenched users was the inability to be able to import projects from previous versions of the software into new versions. For better or worst, that likely will never be redressed.
There's an app for that..."7toX" by Assisted Editing.
Apple stopped selling displays that work with ANY Mac Pro, and you don't see anyone really complaining about that.
Apple still offers the 27 inch LED display along with the 27 inch Thunderbolt display. Both are in stock on the Apple Store.
It's probably hard to find them in the retail channel though.
Pardon me for being unsympathetic, but boo hoo, too freakin' bad. Who doesn't have to relearn skills and keep up with the times? Gone are the days where you have one skill and make a 40 year career out of it.
This isn't just change for change's sake. The UI is different for a reason - take the time to learn it, and be more productive with it in the long run.
More and more I read about pros that invest the time to learn how FCP X works... with an open mind, e.g. "Learn how FCP X can do things" as opposed to "How can I make FCP X work like FCP 7?"
While many of these people cannot, yet, totally migrate to FCP X -- a common report is that FCP X makes editing Fast and Fun!
"Fast" is expected... but "Fun" speaks volumes!
I doubt it. ANY interface change was bound to bring heat from people who frankly, don't want to relearn the skill set they've had for years. That's one of two big hangups people have had-
1- Feature incomplete
2- New way of working and thinking
(also) 3- the meme that Apple has become a toy company and isn't interested in pros
Apple was as open as they ever are (therefore not much) upon the release of FCPX in June. But people were rebuffed at the way Apple approached this release, so Apple is going to take a hit in the short term. That's the tradeoff for their secrecy.
Well said. And let's add the issue of a low level of confidence that Apple will continue to support towers.
But for those that complained, is it too little, too late and they moved on to Adobe Premiere?
/
/
/
It's only been ~7 months since FCPX was released. I would be surprised if any true pro moved to a new platform in such a short amount of time. We could argue that Apple's abrupt transition may have caused many to explore alternatives, but most pros think in 2-4 year time frames.
For those that complained probably.
But how many folks were that really, compared to those that understood that this was essentially a brand new software that yes has some features missing at the moment, but would come back in one form or another as the final bugs were worked out. Just like with all new software.
I bet if we had real numbers we'd find that in fact the complaints weren't really that large of a cut of the whole.
Nice speculation, but I'd like to hear from the professional video editors. Maybe that's not that big of a number, but they were the ones hurt most by the change, and the ones who might have switched platforms.
This update also gives me hope that a new thunderbolt (+USB3.0?) equipped Mac Pro may be a reality but I was waiting for March and the Xeon release before I was going to get too worried about that one.
I also hope Apple's continuing work on pro video software means a Mac Pro update is coming. According to the macrumors.com buyers guide, this is the longest wait for a Mac Pro update since the Intel switch.
Nice speculation, but I'd like to hear from the professional video editors. Maybe that's not that big of a number, but they were the ones hurt most by the change, and the ones who might have switched platforms.
I doubt many switched. I think most like myself just stayed on FCP 7 waiting to decide. I have Premiere but now I am going to buy FCPX. We do use multi cam and I just got our titling plug in update that now works with it so I will give it a try. Plus I just upgraded to Lion on one Mac Pro so we are good to go.