It's basically the "old fart" effect. A lot of 40 something editors that have always done things the same way just don't want to learn a whole new approach.
While that might be true for some 'old farts', it is pretty dismissive of us as a whole group.
A lot of us have absolutely no problem learning a new interface and new way of doing things, in fact I was looking forward to it and liked many of the changes to FCPX. The biggest reason most of us didn't like or move to FCPX was simply the features it lacked that used to be possible on the previous version (like allowing us to share projects with other software). Although you might not believe that, Apple obviously does, as evidenced by these updates that haven't changed the new interface/workflow but simply added missing features. If they thought that 'old farts' were simply scared of using a new interface/workflow these updates would have been to simply rewrite FCP 7 in 64 bit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody
They knew the missing features would be added back in ASAP and now they have been. There never was any reason to "switch back to Avid" other than spite (and fear).
Hindsight is a great thing but that statement isn't exactly true, alongside the the growing focus on consumer products and the lacklustre initial FCPX release, we'd seen the demise of Shake, the disappearance of other pro apps (that are still needed by a lot of us i.e. dvdstudio), a lack of mac pro updates and the, once actively updated, pro section of the Apple website not being updated in several years.
A simple PR release from Apple stating that they were looking into things was too little and too late for many people who were understandably losing faith in Apple and their pro focus.
The only real time that we KNEW Apple was adding these features was when they released them today, up until today it was only PR we had to go by and for many pro users PR suggestions are not enough to base a business decision, and potentially large business investment on, especially when you consider the increased focus on the consumer market at the expense of Apple's previous pro focus.
It is great that Apple have followed through on their initial press release but it is over simplifying things a little to assume the switch threats were simply due to fear of learning a new interface and spite. More than anything, they were about pro users lacking faith in Apple's commitment and focus on the pro market, if you look at that particular market over the past few years (compared to the few years before) Apple really only has itself to blame for that diminishing faith.
Apple's attitude towards secrecy has served it well at the consumer level where it builds hype and excitement, but it has also worked against the company servicing pros and the enterprise for as long as I can remember and if I'm surprised by anything, it is that a company as smart as Apple hasn't been able to develop a better dual strategy for both the consumer AND enterprise markets.
I also hope Apple's continuing work on pro video software means a Mac Pro update is coming. According to the macrumors.com buyers guide, this is the longest wait for a Mac Pro update since the Intel switch.
That guide has been wrong since 2008. The current wait is only longer than the second-longest by about ten days. And it's all based on the chips, anyway.
I doubt many switched. I think most like myself just stayed on FCP 7 waiting to decide. I have Premiere but now I am going to buy FCPX. We do use multi cam and I just got our titling plug in update that now works with it so I will give it a try. Plus I just upgraded to Lion on one Mac Pro so we are good to go.
Let us know how it goes!
Lion means you never have to say you're sorry [that you didn't save your FCP X changes]...
That guide has been wrong since 2008. The current wait is only longer than the second-longest by about ten days. And it's all based on the chips, anyway.
Why is that? Is it because they have counted releases that were not true architectural changes?
That all makes a lot of sense. The only thing I would argue is that now is a very good time to buy the new version. Install it on a small separate partition and whenever you have some down time, open it and get used to it. Then, when in the future you are comfortable with it and you feel it is ready to perform to your needs, you can pick a simple (real) project and see how it works. By this time you probably have your thunderbolt MP, and you'll be ready to hit the ground running.
Yeah, good idea, that's pretty much what I'm doing.
One place I do freelance work for has bought a copy and most of the training available, I've been patiently watching the software develop and also familiarising myself with the new version when time permits, so I'll be ready when/if the software is ready for me.
Why is that? Is it because they have counted releases that were not true architectural changes?
Right. It counts the ADDITION of an 8-core option to the first gen Mac Pro as an "update".
Absolutely nothing changed about the computer. No price changes, no hardware changes, no software changes. Everything that was currently being sold remained identical. You could just click a radio button and get a $3,400 8-core option.
Apple stopped selling displays that work with ANY Mac Pro, and you don't see anyone really complaining about that.
To the extent what you say is true, that is completely different. The display is a commodity you can buy from anybody. Final Cut could only be acquired from Apple.
Moreover, professional production houses needed to acquire Final Cut licenses, but the new version of Final Cut wasn't suitable for large professional production for the lack of third party plugins and relied on features (some of which Apple is slowly adding). Apple was essentially depriving people from acquiring a product the professionals relied on and needed to do their jobs while Apple improved its newly released product.
Consequently, some big name professional production houses jumped ship. Apple could have avoided that just by continuing to offer the old product, while improving the new product. After the new product was out a while and added the needed features, Apple could than announce that within a couple of months the old product would be taken off the market.
That's great. I think GUI design skill is about making the pro things simple, not leaving them out.
Exactly. This, I think, has been one of Apple's flaws, especially when Steve got involved. His desire for a Zen aesthetic forced Apple to leave out details. This is my fear about the supposed upcoming Apple TV set. I'm sure it will be really simple to operate, but my bet is that you won't be able to get at any of the detailed controls to really refine the image.
I'm not claiming it's easy but advanced users need both elegance and power. And in this instance, we see a lot of the power coming back to Final Cut Pro. Multicam is one example. I bet someone at Apple though, "well, 35mm narrative film generally only uses one camera, dramatic TV shows generally use single camera, amateurs use one camera, so it's mainly live TV and situation comedies that use multi-cam and that's a tiny percentage of users, so we don't need it." And Apple was either extremely naive or extremely arrogant to think that they didn't need conversion from FC7 to the newer software. But at least they've learned some of those lessons and at least it's a free update. In terms of functionality, it always had some wonderful features. Most of the failures were in workflow-related functions.
Right. It counts the ADDITION of an 8-core option to the first gen Mac Pro as an "update".
Absolutely nothing changed about the computer. No price changes, no hardware changes, no software changes. Everything that was currently being sold remained identical. You could just click a radio button and get a $3,400 8-core option.
Yes, I think that one should have been left off, given what most people (I suspect) use the bars for.
We have already switched to Premiere and haven't looked back. We have no plans to go back to FCP and are seriously considering moving to PC based systems (the rumor of Apple discontinuing towers is driving this).
Hindsight is a great thing but that statement isn't exactly true, alongside the the growing focus on consumer products and the lacklustre initial FCPX release, we'd seen the demise of Shake, the disappearance of other pro apps (that are still needed by a lot of us i.e. dvdstudio), a lack of mac pro updates and the, once actively updated, pro section of the Apple website not being updated in several years.
Shake was a great loss. Many films like Lord of the Rings relied on it. I think a lot of the cuts have had to do with Apple's migration from carbon to cocoa. It had to rewrite applications like Final Cut from the ground up. That is likely why some apps like Shake were abandoned. Apple probably thought too much work would go into rewriting the applications and the payoff wouldn't cover the cost.
Exactly. Apple released Final Cut X too soon. About a year too soon.
That is basically the top and bottom of it. That and they should have stated FP7 would remain available to those requiring it for a few years to give large production houses time to parallel work and ease over on going projects.
It's still almost entirely unusable as a professional piece of software, thanks in larg part to the clunky interface that makes the most basic functions impossible.
Sticking with FCP7 for feature films for now, but if 10 continues as is am definitely going the Avid route in a couple of years.
We have already switched to Premiere and haven't looked back. We have no plans to go back to FCP and are seriously considering moving to PC based systems (the rumor of Apple discontinuing towers is driving this).
Enjoy. Everyone else will keep using Final Cut Pro for its innovations and iMacs/Mac Pros.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiwaz418
It's still almost entirely unusable as a professional piece of software…
We have already switched to Premiere and haven't looked back. We have no plans to go back to FCP and are seriously considering moving to PC based systems (the rumor of Apple discontinuing towers is driving this).
I can totally understand and appreciate this sentiment.
I don't personally need to buy a new pro machine until the end of the year but when I do, I'll be looking at two aspect of Apple before making the same decision;
? What is the current situation with the mac pro
? What is happening with FCPX
This new FCPX update may be a minor .0.3 update but it does give me some hope for both points.
I'm ready to switch to Windows if Apple aren't focused on making the pro products I need but I would be disappointed to leave the mac behind after so many years.
I'd prefer my pro workhorse machine to be a mac but I can imagine a situation where I have a powerful windows based workhorse as well as an Imac for email/phone sync and to open legacy files.
I doubt many switched. I think most like myself just stayed on FCP 7 waiting to decide. I have Premiere but now I am going to buy FCPX. We do use multi cam and I just got our titling plug in update that now works with it so I will give it a try. Plus I just upgraded to Lion on one Mac Pro so we are good to go.
Easy for me to say as my own boss but I would rather learn to weave baskets for a living than move to PCs running Adobe products to earn my living
We have already switched to Premiere and haven't looked back. We have no plans to go back to FCP and are seriously considering moving to PC based systems (the rumor of Apple discontinuing towers is driving this).
Windows is ok if you are doing a dedicated task like video editing. Once you are inside the Adobe CS interface it is really similar regardless of platform. The big difference for me between Mac and Windows is when you are doing many diverse creative tasks and general computing using the filesystem, in which case, the Mac is a much more pleasurable experience.
It's still almost entirely unusable as a professional piece of software, thanks in larg part to the clunky interface that makes the most basic functions impossible.
Sticking with FCP7 for feature films for now, but if 10 continues as is am definitely going the Avid route in a couple of years.
Can you elaborate on "It's still almost entirely unusable as a professional piece of software, thanks in larg part to the clunky interface
that makes the most basic functions impossible."
Specifically, which basic editing functions are impossible with FCP X?
That guide has been wrong since 2008. The current wait is only longer than the second-longest by about ten days. And it's all based on the chips, anyway.
Since there are no currently shipping chips that would serve as an upgrade for the mac pro, and the likelihood of ivy bridge chips being released in the next 10 days is pretty slim, I don't see this as a terribly inaccurate statement.
Comments
It's basically the "old fart" effect. A lot of 40 something editors that have always done things the same way just don't want to learn a whole new approach.
While that might be true for some 'old farts', it is pretty dismissive of us as a whole group.
A lot of us have absolutely no problem learning a new interface and new way of doing things, in fact I was looking forward to it and liked many of the changes to FCPX. The biggest reason most of us didn't like or move to FCPX was simply the features it lacked that used to be possible on the previous version (like allowing us to share projects with other software). Although you might not believe that, Apple obviously does, as evidenced by these updates that haven't changed the new interface/workflow but simply added missing features. If they thought that 'old farts' were simply scared of using a new interface/workflow these updates would have been to simply rewrite FCP 7 in 64 bit
They knew the missing features would be added back in ASAP and now they have been. There never was any reason to "switch back to Avid" other than spite (and fear).
Hindsight is a great thing but that statement isn't exactly true, alongside the the growing focus on consumer products and the lacklustre initial FCPX release, we'd seen the demise of Shake, the disappearance of other pro apps (that are still needed by a lot of us i.e. dvdstudio), a lack of mac pro updates and the, once actively updated, pro section of the Apple website not being updated in several years.
A simple PR release from Apple stating that they were looking into things was too little and too late for many people who were understandably losing faith in Apple and their pro focus.
The only real time that we KNEW Apple was adding these features was when they released them today, up until today it was only PR we had to go by and for many pro users PR suggestions are not enough to base a business decision, and potentially large business investment on, especially when you consider the increased focus on the consumer market at the expense of Apple's previous pro focus.
It is great that Apple have followed through on their initial press release but it is over simplifying things a little to assume the switch threats were simply due to fear of learning a new interface and spite. More than anything, they were about pro users lacking faith in Apple's commitment and focus on the pro market, if you look at that particular market over the past few years (compared to the few years before) Apple really only has itself to blame for that diminishing faith.
Apple's attitude towards secrecy has served it well at the consumer level where it builds hype and excitement, but it has also worked against the company servicing pros and the enterprise for as long as I can remember and if I'm surprised by anything, it is that a company as smart as Apple hasn't been able to develop a better dual strategy for both the consumer AND enterprise markets.
I also hope Apple's continuing work on pro video software means a Mac Pro update is coming. According to the macrumors.com buyers guide, this is the longest wait for a Mac Pro update since the Intel switch.
That guide has been wrong since 2008. The current wait is only longer than the second-longest by about ten days. And it's all based on the chips, anyway.
I doubt many switched. I think most like myself just stayed on FCP 7 waiting to decide. I have Premiere but now I am going to buy FCPX. We do use multi cam and I just got our titling plug in update that now works with it so I will give it a try. Plus I just upgraded to Lion on one Mac Pro so we are good to go.
Let us know how it goes!
Lion means you never have to say you're sorry [that you didn't save your FCP X changes]...
That guide has been wrong since 2008. The current wait is only longer than the second-longest by about ten days. And it's all based on the chips, anyway.
Why is that? Is it because they have counted releases that were not true architectural changes?
That all makes a lot of sense. The only thing I would argue is that now is a very good time to buy the new version. Install it on a small separate partition and whenever you have some down time, open it and get used to it. Then, when in the future you are comfortable with it and you feel it is ready to perform to your needs, you can pick a simple (real) project and see how it works. By this time you probably have your thunderbolt MP, and you'll be ready to hit the ground running.
Yeah, good idea, that's pretty much what I'm doing.
One place I do freelance work for has bought a copy and most of the training available, I've been patiently watching the software develop and also familiarising myself with the new version when time permits, so I'll be ready when/if the software is ready for me.
Why is that? Is it because they have counted releases that were not true architectural changes?
Right. It counts the ADDITION of an 8-core option to the first gen Mac Pro as an "update".
Absolutely nothing changed about the computer. No price changes, no hardware changes, no software changes. Everything that was currently being sold remained identical. You could just click a radio button and get a $3,400 8-core option.
Apple stopped selling displays that work with ANY Mac Pro, and you don't see anyone really complaining about that.
To the extent what you say is true, that is completely different. The display is a commodity you can buy from anybody. Final Cut could only be acquired from Apple.
Moreover, professional production houses needed to acquire Final Cut licenses, but the new version of Final Cut wasn't suitable for large professional production for the lack of third party plugins and relied on features (some of which Apple is slowly adding). Apple was essentially depriving people from acquiring a product the professionals relied on and needed to do their jobs while Apple improved its newly released product.
Consequently, some big name professional production houses jumped ship. Apple could have avoided that just by continuing to offer the old product, while improving the new product. After the new product was out a while and added the needed features, Apple could than announce that within a couple of months the old product would be taken off the market.
That's great. I think GUI design skill is about making the pro things simple, not leaving them out.
Exactly. This, I think, has been one of Apple's flaws, especially when Steve got involved. His desire for a Zen aesthetic forced Apple to leave out details. This is my fear about the supposed upcoming Apple TV set. I'm sure it will be really simple to operate, but my bet is that you won't be able to get at any of the detailed controls to really refine the image.
I'm not claiming it's easy but advanced users need both elegance and power. And in this instance, we see a lot of the power coming back to Final Cut Pro. Multicam is one example. I bet someone at Apple though, "well, 35mm narrative film generally only uses one camera, dramatic TV shows generally use single camera, amateurs use one camera, so it's mainly live TV and situation comedies that use multi-cam and that's a tiny percentage of users, so we don't need it." And Apple was either extremely naive or extremely arrogant to think that they didn't need conversion from FC7 to the newer software. But at least they've learned some of those lessons and at least it's a free update. In terms of functionality, it always had some wonderful features. Most of the failures were in workflow-related functions.
Right. It counts the ADDITION of an 8-core option to the first gen Mac Pro as an "update".
Absolutely nothing changed about the computer. No price changes, no hardware changes, no software changes. Everything that was currently being sold remained identical. You could just click a radio button and get a $3,400 8-core option.
Yes, I think that one should have been left off, given what most people (I suspect) use the bars for.
Hindsight is a great thing but that statement isn't exactly true, alongside the the growing focus on consumer products and the lacklustre initial FCPX release, we'd seen the demise of Shake, the disappearance of other pro apps (that are still needed by a lot of us i.e. dvdstudio), a lack of mac pro updates and the, once actively updated, pro section of the Apple website not being updated in several years.
Shake was a great loss. Many films like Lord of the Rings relied on it. I think a lot of the cuts have had to do with Apple's migration from carbon to cocoa. It had to rewrite applications like Final Cut from the ground up. That is likely why some apps like Shake were abandoned. Apple probably thought too much work would go into rewriting the applications and the payoff wouldn't cover the cost.
Exactly. Apple released Final Cut X too soon. About a year too soon.
That is basically the top and bottom of it. That and they should have stated FP7 would remain available to those requiring it for a few years to give large production houses time to parallel work and ease over on going projects.
All fixed.
Erm...
Hardly.
It's still almost entirely unusable as a professional piece of software, thanks in larg part to the clunky interface that makes the most basic functions impossible.
Sticking with FCP7 for feature films for now, but if 10 continues as is am definitely going the Avid route in a couple of years.
We have already switched to Premiere and haven't looked back. We have no plans to go back to FCP and are seriously considering moving to PC based systems (the rumor of Apple discontinuing towers is driving this).
Enjoy. Everyone else will keep using Final Cut Pro for its innovations and iMacs/Mac Pros.
It's still almost entirely unusable as a professional piece of software…
We have already switched to Premiere and haven't looked back. We have no plans to go back to FCP and are seriously considering moving to PC based systems (the rumor of Apple discontinuing towers is driving this).
I can totally understand and appreciate this sentiment.
I don't personally need to buy a new pro machine until the end of the year but when I do, I'll be looking at two aspect of Apple before making the same decision;
? What is the current situation with the mac pro
? What is happening with FCPX
This new FCPX update may be a minor .0.3 update but it does give me some hope for both points.
I'm ready to switch to Windows if Apple aren't focused on making the pro products I need but I would be disappointed to leave the mac behind after so many years.
I'd prefer my pro workhorse machine to be a mac but I can imagine a situation where I have a powerful windows based workhorse as well as an Imac for email/phone sync and to open legacy files.
I doubt many switched. I think most like myself just stayed on FCP 7 waiting to decide. I have Premiere but now I am going to buy FCPX. We do use multi cam and I just got our titling plug in update that now works with it so I will give it a try. Plus I just upgraded to Lion on one Mac Pro so we are good to go.
Easy for me to say as my own boss but I would rather learn to weave baskets for a living than move to PCs running Adobe products to earn my living
We have already switched to Premiere and haven't looked back. We have no plans to go back to FCP and are seriously considering moving to PC based systems (the rumor of Apple discontinuing towers is driving this).
Windows is ok if you are doing a dedicated task like video editing. Once you are inside the Adobe CS interface it is really similar regardless of platform. The big difference for me between Mac and Windows is when you are doing many diverse creative tasks and general computing using the filesystem, in which case, the Mac is a much more pleasurable experience.
Erm...
Hardly.
It's still almost entirely unusable as a professional piece of software, thanks in larg part to the clunky interface that makes the most basic functions impossible.
Sticking with FCP7 for feature films for now, but if 10 continues as is am definitely going the Avid route in a couple of years.
Can you elaborate on "It's still almost entirely unusable as a professional piece of software, thanks in larg part to the clunky interface
that makes the most basic functions impossible."
Specifically, which basic editing functions are impossible with FCP X?
Easy for me to say as my own boss but I would rather learn to weave baskets for a living than move to PCs running Adobe products to earn my living
CS 5.5 rocks. You really cannot work professionally in the creative arts industry without it.
That guide has been wrong since 2008. The current wait is only longer than the second-longest by about ten days. And it's all based on the chips, anyway.
Since there are no currently shipping chips that would serve as an upgrade for the mac pro, and the likelihood of ivy bridge chips being released in the next 10 days is pretty slim, I don't see this as a terribly inaccurate statement.