I want to see Apple add a 19" model. Now is the perfect time for it. I think it is quite possible to bring a 19" model with similar weight to the 15" MacBook Pro, maybe even weigh less.
How many here think an ultra thin 19" MacBook is a more compelling desktop replacement than the 17"?
One thing, if the RAM is going to be soldered on the new MacBooks I don't think I'll be buying one for a while. I love being able to upgrade the RAM, as I did on my Mac mini and MacBook Pro.
I want to see Apple add a 19" model. Now is the perfect time for it. I think it is quite possible to bring a 19" model with similar weight to the 15" MacBook Pro, maybe even weigh less.
How many here think an ultra thin 19" MacBook is a more compelling desktop replacement than the 17"?
I don't think the 17" is that popular. Heck, we've seen 15" drop from the most popular display size to 13" over the years. If we consider that they will be adding double the resolution to each display that's 3840x2400 or 9,216,000 pixels. That seems like a lot to me and sounds like they might need a battery that is large enough that I don't think you're making a lighter machine than the current 17". Really for that to happen Apple will have to see a huge uptick in 17" MBP sales after the redesign to even consider that an even larger MBP could be viable.
I don't think the 17" is that popular. Heck, we've seen 15" drop from the most popular display size to 13" over the years. If we consider that they will be adding double the resolution to each display that's 3840x2400 or 9,216,000 pixels. That seems like a lot to me and sounds like they might need a battery that is large enough that I don't think you're making a lighter machine than the current 17". Really for that to happen Apple will have to see a huge uptick in 17" MBP sales after the redesign to even consider that an even larger MBP could be viable.
The only reason not a lot of people buy the 17" is weight, at least that what it was for me and so I got the 15". If the new 17" is significantly lighter you'll see more people opting for them. Well at least I'll be getting the new 17" eventually even if Apple doesn't make a 19" MacBook.
For Apple to call it pro it needs to be awesome at the following so they can brag about it:
Final Cut Pro (GPU and CPU intense, external hardware support)
Aperture (GPU and CPU intense)
Logic Pro (CPU intense, external hardware support)
I hope they'll keep it pro. At some point built in graphic cards will be powerful enough, no doubt... But is that day today? I don't know..
"Sir, Aperture users are saying it runs poorly on the new slim MBPs because of the lack of suitable graphics card."
"They don't need those graphics cards anymore. We have new, smaller ones right on the logic board"
"But sir we made Aperture so GPU intensive that it doesn't run well on a compromised graphics card."
"Bah. Works fine for me. This new smaller graphics card is great. See? I just took a picture and used Aperture to upload it to facebook. Forget about those whiners. Now where's the rest of those pictures, I need to edit them. Oh damn I forgot I had to put them on iCloud because I can't use the internal to work off of. Get them back down. I'm going to lunch."
The only reason not a lot of people buy the 17" is weight, at least that what it was for me and so I got the 15". If the new 17" is significantly lighter you'll see more people opting for them. Well at least I'll be getting the new 17" eventually even if Apple doesn't make a 19" MacBook.
You say that yet notebooks have gotten lighter and people have still opted for going smaller. And for the extra money you can invest in an ATD so I can have a 27" display at home and probably still have enough left over for a TB TM drive.
I am looking for decent price on SSD drive for my current MacBook Pro 2011 17" - got a 750GB 5400 RPM in there now - got a 500GB hybrid to swap in but could not get the 750 to work in the external enclosure - so wanting a Crucial M4 512GB SSD - but a bit more than I would care to spend at the moment. It will go nicely with the 16GB of RAM I recently installed.
Why not remove your optical drive and install a 120GB (or even smaller) boot drive in that space? Keep your 750GB where it is for storage, and get an external enclosure for the optical drive. You should be able to do all that for $250 or so, and the speed increase will be incredible!
Why not remove your optical drive and install a 120GB (or even smaller) boot drive in that space? Keep your 750GB where it is for storage, and get an external enclosure for the optical drive. You should be able to do all that for $250 or so, and the speed increase will be incredible!
If you go that route it's better to put the HDD where the ODD was and the SSD in the 2.5" bay. You get much better speeds off your SSD this way.
The 15" won't be as thin as its smaller counterparts. It will still be a pro level machine, as an internal redesign with total removal of the optical bay, will yield a similarly functional machine as we have now, but thinner and lighter.
I think they'll still be able to use the upcoming M-series standard voltage Ivy Bridge processors in the 15 and 17" models, with U-series low voltage remaining in the 11 and 13" models. Still a distinction in both size and power among the line, but with a unified design, and the benefits of the smaller form factor for 15 and 17" users. (I just got a 15" the other day and might I say its freaking huge)
However, its entirely questionable if they'll still have discrete GPUs. I think perhaps not.
They'll have a thicker hinge than the 13" MBA, so it will likely be able to retain an extra USB port and SD card slot, but say goodbye to Ethernet and FireWire. Granted, you don't need either port. You can soon buy small Thunderbolt hubs for your desk that your Ethernet and FireWire devices connect to, all going into 1 Thunderbolt port. That's better than the current implementation of multiple ports. So a design and functional victory here.
The real question is storage capacities of the SSDs and RAM, and the prices. Enter Anobit, hopefully.
If the Anobit purchase can leverage costs of the soldered internal SSD, then perhaps a 256 GB will be the low end, with 512 & 1 TB options, at modest price hikes for each. Then there is RAM. Apple currently charges $200 for 8 GB of RAM....a $150 overcharge, and why most people buy aftermarket. Not an option on MacBook Airs. Furthermore, Apple doesn't offer a 16 GB option for these machines, which they of course support.....but this could change.
I guess it could look like this...
15" MacBook (Air/Pro) $1799
2880x1800 Retina Display
2.6GHz Quad-Core i7-3720QM
4 GB DDR3 (8 GB BTO option - $100)
256 GB SSD
Intel HD 4000 Graphics
2x USB 3.0
1x Thunderbolt
1x SD Card Slot
802.11ac Gigabit WiFi
Impossibly Thin
3.9 lb
&
15" MacBook (Air/Pro) $2,199
2880x1800 Retina Display
2.7GHz Quad-Core i7-3820QM
4 GB DDR3 (8 GB BTO option - $100)
512 GB SSD
Intel HD 4000 Graphics
2x USB 3.0
1x Thunderbolt
1x SD Card Slot
802.11ac Gigabit WiFi
Impossibly Thin
3.9 lb
&
17" MacBook (Air/Pro) $2,499
3840x2400 Retina Display
2.9GHz Quad Core i7-3920XM
4 GB DDR3 (8 GB BTO option - $100)
512 GB SSD
Intel HD 4000 Graphics
2x USB 3.0
1x Thunderbolt
1x SD Card Slot
802.11ac Gigabit WiFi
Impossibly Thin
5.1 lb
*Note, the BTO RAM prices and SSDs are considerably cheaper than what Apple offers today, but I believe if a full redesign and shift to MacBook Air speed/simplicity is to occur, Apple would need to make the new NON-upgradable MacBook Pros more attractive at purchase. Especially with the likely abandonment of discrete graphics. Something's gotta give. I'm thinking the Anobit purchase will have a lot to do with offering higher capacity SSDs in these Pros, while maintaing price points.
If this is true, then it looks like my current MBP better survive for a while or it will be my last. There is nothing PRO about the current airs. I absolutely need an optical drive, and SSD are so far, well too small for me. THE GPU is underwhelming as well. I'm not carrying around external pieces to get one with my daily life for the sake of being thin.
I'm right there with you. If anything you should be able to pack it with hard drives or SSD's and make a smaller logic board. An external optical drive would work for many. I just need to keep saving for a Mac pro anyway, but if I were looking for another MacBook pro, I'd need to see better content creation capabilities. Novel stuff like thunderbolt video cards, too, so if you're chained to a desk it extends capability beyond storage. 8 cores. These aren't iPads, they're tools.
Just a short while ago, I would have said, nahhhhh, never, but actually it's starting to make sense.
If you have the money, you can get a 512GB SSD. While they'll get the prices down by $100 or $200, it won't be like they're cutting prices in half or anything like that. Just like on the MacBook Air. So 512GB SSD/Flash will still cost $800 or so.
If you're strapped for cash, or need 1TB, you can get the thunderbolt external drive, sleek and beautifully designed. $150 f for 1TB.
Personally I am hoping Apple will finally get rid of the need to "eject" a disk - that's ridiculous, and should be replaced by an "OK to unplug now" indicator on the external drive. Red/green light? Something like that. Having to "eject" an external disk before unplugging it or else it will fuck up your data is IMO unacceptable.
Given that a thunderbolt cable costs $50 all by itself, your little dream of having a 1TB external drive for $150 has clearly teleported here from 2014.
Having to eject an external disk before letting your Mac go to sleep is just as bad. Excuse me but the drive is still connected; why can't the damned Mac go to sleep in a way that doesn't screw up the USB bus?
If this is true, then it looks like my current MBP better survive for a while or it will be my last. There is nothing PRO about the current airs. I absolutely need an optical drive, and SSD are so far, well too small for me. THE GPU is underwhelming as well. I'm not carrying around external pieces to get one with my daily life for the sake of being thin.
i don't think they will kill the pro and keep the 13,15,17" airs with the same speed as they are today, i think they will make it thin with still making it a Pro like...
Those sure are dream specs you posted. As a tech nerd I would like to just see a 17" Retina display, even if I couldn't buy one.
But even though they are dream specs, they may not be far from the truth. The Air has been out for a while now, and my theory is they have been waiting for Ivy Bridge to expand that design. If not now, when? And it would certainly leave the competition on the back foot.
Sounds nice. I picked up a late 2011 around Christmas, but ended up taking it back before the 30 days were up because it wasn't much of an improvement over my 2009 MBP. Maybe it would be different if I needed Thunderbolt functionality, but until peripheral prices drop, that's worthless to me.
Now if this rumor is true, however, and they can deliver MBP power in a more MBA-like form factor, that would be worth the cost of upgrading. I wouldn't really miss the physical drive, as I use usb keys for physical data transfers, and have a high powered desktop for burning DVD's on. Guess I'll just keep my fingers crossed and see what Q2 brings us.
In 2011, the average price per GB for SSDs was 32 times that for HDs. People on AI have been predicting the demise of HDs in Apple products for years, because they see it as inevitable that Flash memory will continue to decline in price.
It hasn't happened, it's like Nuclear fusion - always just 30 years away.
The predicted demise of the iPod Classic hasn't happened yet either, obviously because people keep buying Classics as SS memory is too expensive at iPod Touch pricing.
If the next pro has no HDD, it will no longer be 'pro', just a gust of warm Air.
I think Apple might solve a lot of issues by eliminating most ports from the main case and relocate them to the power adapter, with just one combined power, ethernet, thunderbird, display, cable with a hybrid fiber and power mag connector.
I wish someone would eliminate the 3.5 headphone jack and create a magnetic replacement. A lot of headphone cables would be saved.
heard this before: "What about my floppy disks?"Time to move on!
You don't even understand how to construct an intelligent counter-argument.
What about advancing technology makes disk space a non-issue? Oh please do tell me how large hard drives are going the way of floppy disks. I'll just delete this 120GB+ project and tell everyone involved that it's obsolete now, just like floppy disks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlandd
That's just for static storage, not active files. There is no cloud storage suitable to deal with large, working files in progress except as backups. Files currently being worked on, such as folders of hundred meg TIFFs or audio work as it is being worked on. That's the answer for offices, but not production environments.
Comments
How many here think an ultra thin 19" MacBook is a more compelling desktop replacement than the 17"?
One thing, if the RAM is going to be soldered on the new MacBooks I don't think I'll be buying one for a while. I love being able to upgrade the RAM, as I did on my Mac mini and MacBook Pro.
I want to see Apple add a 19" model. Now is the perfect time for it. I think it is quite possible to bring a 19" model with similar weight to the 15" MacBook Pro, maybe even weigh less.
How many here think an ultra thin 19" MacBook is a more compelling desktop replacement than the 17"?
I don't think the 17" is that popular. Heck, we've seen 15" drop from the most popular display size to 13" over the years. If we consider that they will be adding double the resolution to each display that's 3840x2400 or 9,216,000 pixels. That seems like a lot to me and sounds like they might need a battery that is large enough that I don't think you're making a lighter machine than the current 17". Really for that to happen Apple will have to see a huge uptick in 17" MBP sales after the redesign to even consider that an even larger MBP could be viable.
I don't think the 17" is that popular. Heck, we've seen 15" drop from the most popular display size to 13" over the years. If we consider that they will be adding double the resolution to each display that's 3840x2400 or 9,216,000 pixels. That seems like a lot to me and sounds like they might need a battery that is large enough that I don't think you're making a lighter machine than the current 17". Really for that to happen Apple will have to see a huge uptick in 17" MBP sales after the redesign to even consider that an even larger MBP could be viable.
The only reason not a lot of people buy the 17" is weight, at least that what it was for me and so I got the 15". If the new 17" is significantly lighter you'll see more people opting for them. Well at least I'll be getting the new 17" eventually even if Apple doesn't make a 19" MacBook.
For Apple to call it pro it needs to be awesome at the following so they can brag about it:I hope they'll keep it pro. At some point built in graphic cards will be powerful enough, no doubt... But is that day today? I don't know..
"Sir, Aperture users are saying it runs poorly on the new slim MBPs because of the lack of suitable graphics card."
"They don't need those graphics cards anymore. We have new, smaller ones right on the logic board"
"But sir we made Aperture so GPU intensive that it doesn't run well on a compromised graphics card."
"Bah. Works fine for me. This new smaller graphics card is great. See? I just took a picture and used Aperture to upload it to facebook. Forget about those whiners. Now where's the rest of those pictures, I need to edit them. Oh damn I forgot I had to put them on iCloud because I can't use the internal to work off of. Get them back down. I'm going to lunch."
too bad they are going to be running the garbage that is os x 10.7 vista.
The only reason not a lot of people buy the 17" is weight, at least that what it was for me and so I got the 15". If the new 17" is significantly lighter you'll see more people opting for them. Well at least I'll be getting the new 17" eventually even if Apple doesn't make a 19" MacBook.
You say that yet notebooks have gotten lighter and people have still opted for going smaller. And for the extra money you can invest in an ATD so I can have a 27" display at home and probably still have enough left over for a TB TM drive.
Is the Cube the only one that had no fan?
I am looking for decent price on SSD drive for my current MacBook Pro 2011 17" - got a 750GB 5400 RPM in there now - got a 500GB hybrid to swap in but could not get the 750 to work in the external enclosure - so wanting a Crucial M4 512GB SSD - but a bit more than I would care to spend at the moment. It will go nicely with the 16GB of RAM I recently installed.
Why not remove your optical drive and install a 120GB (or even smaller) boot drive in that space? Keep your 750GB where it is for storage, and get an external enclosure for the optical drive. You should be able to do all that for $250 or so, and the speed increase will be incredible!
Why not remove your optical drive and install a 120GB (or even smaller) boot drive in that space? Keep your 750GB where it is for storage, and get an external enclosure for the optical drive. You should be able to do all that for $250 or so, and the speed increase will be incredible!
If you go that route it's better to put the HDD where the ODD was and the SSD in the 2.5" bay. You get much better speeds off your SSD this way.
I think they'll still be able to use the upcoming M-series standard voltage Ivy Bridge processors in the 15 and 17" models, with U-series low voltage remaining in the 11 and 13" models. Still a distinction in both size and power among the line, but with a unified design, and the benefits of the smaller form factor for 15 and 17" users. (I just got a 15" the other day and might I say its freaking huge)
However, its entirely questionable if they'll still have discrete GPUs. I think perhaps not.
They'll have a thicker hinge than the 13" MBA, so it will likely be able to retain an extra USB port and SD card slot, but say goodbye to Ethernet and FireWire. Granted, you don't need either port. You can soon buy small Thunderbolt hubs for your desk that your Ethernet and FireWire devices connect to, all going into 1 Thunderbolt port. That's better than the current implementation of multiple ports. So a design and functional victory here.
The real question is storage capacities of the SSDs and RAM, and the prices. Enter Anobit, hopefully.
If the Anobit purchase can leverage costs of the soldered internal SSD, then perhaps a 256 GB will be the low end, with 512 & 1 TB options, at modest price hikes for each. Then there is RAM. Apple currently charges $200 for 8 GB of RAM....a $150 overcharge, and why most people buy aftermarket. Not an option on MacBook Airs. Furthermore, Apple doesn't offer a 16 GB option for these machines, which they of course support.....but this could change.
I guess it could look like this...
15" MacBook (Air/Pro) $1799
2880x1800 Retina Display
2.6GHz Quad-Core i7-3720QM
4 GB DDR3 (8 GB BTO option - $100)
256 GB SSD
Intel HD 4000 Graphics
2x USB 3.0
1x Thunderbolt
1x SD Card Slot
802.11ac Gigabit WiFi
Impossibly Thin
3.9 lb
&
15" MacBook (Air/Pro) $2,199
2880x1800 Retina Display
2.7GHz Quad-Core i7-3820QM
4 GB DDR3 (8 GB BTO option - $100)
512 GB SSD
Intel HD 4000 Graphics
2x USB 3.0
1x Thunderbolt
1x SD Card Slot
802.11ac Gigabit WiFi
Impossibly Thin
3.9 lb
&
17" MacBook (Air/Pro) $2,499
3840x2400 Retina Display
2.9GHz Quad Core i7-3920XM
4 GB DDR3 (8 GB BTO option - $100)
512 GB SSD
Intel HD 4000 Graphics
2x USB 3.0
1x Thunderbolt
1x SD Card Slot
802.11ac Gigabit WiFi
Impossibly Thin
5.1 lb
*Note, the BTO RAM prices and SSDs are considerably cheaper than what Apple offers today, but I believe if a full redesign and shift to MacBook Air speed/simplicity is to occur, Apple would need to make the new NON-upgradable MacBook Pros more attractive at purchase. Especially with the likely abandonment of discrete graphics. Something's gotta give. I'm thinking the Anobit purchase will have a lot to do with offering higher capacity SSDs in these Pros, while maintaing price points.
So, would you buy one? Given those specs?
If this is true, then it looks like my current MBP better survive for a while or it will be my last. There is nothing PRO about the current airs. I absolutely need an optical drive, and SSD are so far, well too small for me. THE GPU is underwhelming as well. I'm not carrying around external pieces to get one with my daily life for the sake of being thin.
I'm right there with you. If anything you should be able to pack it with hard drives or SSD's and make a smaller logic board. An external optical drive would work for many. I just need to keep saving for a Mac pro anyway, but if I were looking for another MacBook pro, I'd need to see better content creation capabilities. Novel stuff like thunderbolt video cards, too, so if you're chained to a desk it extends capability beyond storage. 8 cores. These aren't iPads, they're tools.
Just a short while ago, I would have said, nahhhhh, never, but actually it's starting to make sense.
If you have the money, you can get a 512GB SSD. While they'll get the prices down by $100 or $200, it won't be like they're cutting prices in half or anything like that. Just like on the MacBook Air. So 512GB SSD/Flash will still cost $800 or so.
If you're strapped for cash, or need 1TB, you can get the thunderbolt external drive, sleek and beautifully designed. $150 f for 1TB.
Personally I am hoping Apple will finally get rid of the need to "eject" a disk - that's ridiculous, and should be replaced by an "OK to unplug now" indicator on the external drive. Red/green light? Something like that. Having to "eject" an external disk before unplugging it or else it will fuck up your data is IMO unacceptable.
Given that a thunderbolt cable costs $50 all by itself, your little dream of having a 1TB external drive for $150 has clearly teleported here from 2014.
Having to eject an external disk before letting your Mac go to sleep is just as bad. Excuse me but the drive is still connected; why can't the damned Mac go to sleep in a way that doesn't screw up the USB bus?
If this is true, then it looks like my current MBP better survive for a while or it will be my last. There is nothing PRO about the current airs. I absolutely need an optical drive, and SSD are so far, well too small for me. THE GPU is underwhelming as well. I'm not carrying around external pieces to get one with my daily life for the sake of being thin.
i don't think they will kill the pro and keep the 13,15,17" airs with the same speed as they are today, i think they will make it thin with still making it a Pro like...
So, would you buy one? Given those specs?
Those sure are dream specs you posted. As a tech nerd I would like to just see a 17" Retina display, even if I couldn't buy one.
But even though they are dream specs, they may not be far from the truth. The Air has been out for a while now, and my theory is they have been waiting for Ivy Bridge to expand that design. If not now, when? And it would certainly leave the competition on the back foot.
Now if this rumor is true, however, and they can deliver MBP power in a more MBA-like form factor, that would be worth the cost of upgrading. I wouldn't really miss the physical drive, as I use usb keys for physical data transfers, and have a high powered desktop for burning DVD's on. Guess I'll just keep my fingers crossed and see what Q2 brings us.
500 GB 2.5" HDD about $80 (amazon)
In 2011, the average price per GB for SSDs was 32 times that for HDs. People on AI have been predicting the demise of HDs in Apple products for years, because they see it as inevitable that Flash memory will continue to decline in price.
It hasn't happened, it's like Nuclear fusion - always just 30 years away.
The predicted demise of the iPod Classic hasn't happened yet either, obviously because people keep buying Classics as SS memory is too expensive at iPod Touch pricing.
If the next pro has no HDD, it will no longer be 'pro', just a gust of warm Air.
I think Apple might solve a lot of issues by eliminating most ports from the main case and relocate them to the power adapter, with just one combined power, ethernet, thunderbird, display, cable with a hybrid fiber and power mag connector.
I wish someone would eliminate the 3.5 headphone jack and create a magnetic replacement. A lot of headphone cables would be saved.
heard this before: "What about my floppy disks?"
You don't even understand how to construct an intelligent counter-argument.
What about advancing technology makes disk space a non-issue? Oh please do tell me how large hard drives are going the way of floppy disks. I'll just delete this 120GB+ project and tell everyone involved that it's obsolete now, just like floppy disks.
That's just for static storage, not active files. There is no cloud storage suitable to deal with large, working files in progress except as backups. Files currently being worked on, such as folders of hundred meg TIFFs or audio work as it is being worked on. That's the answer for offices, but not production environments.
YEP!