In 2011, the average price per GB for SSDs was 32 times that for HDs. People on AI have been predicting the demise of HDs in Apple products for years, because they see it as inevitable that Flash memory will continue to decline in price.
It hasn't happened, it's like Nuclear fusion - always just 30 years away.
The predicted demise of the iPod Classic hasn't happened yet either, obviously because people keep buying Classics as SS memory is too expensive at iPod Touch pricing.
If the next pro has no HDD, it will no longer be 'pro', just a gust of warm Air.
I think Apple might solve a lot of issues by eliminating most ports from the main case and relocate them to the power adapter, with just one combined power, ethernet, thunderbird, display, cable with a hybrid fiber and power mag connector.
I wish someone would eliminate the 3.5 headphone jack and create a magnetic replacement. A lot of headphone cables would be saved.
It hasn't happened because their are so many vested interests to keep it that way. And that applies to 'cold fusion' as well.
I'm not feeling that design. I think it's tapered all the way, even if it is nearly 1" thick at the very back.
They might not be able to do that if they have the same power consumption as it would reduce the battery size significantly.
I suspect they will, otherwise the 13" would look like it's taking a step back but I prefer non-tapered:
No optical as you can buy a cheap external (even Blu-Ray).
USB 3 to replace FW800 and ethernet (4 ports on 15", 2 on 13").
Thunderbolt x 2 on 15", one on 13".
They have to go with 256GB entry SSD on the 15". Removing the optical saves them $100 and with SSD being around $1/GB, they can get 256GB in the entry model. This means no need for an HDD and they can easily have a BTO option for 512GB for $300.
The alternative is to simply get a USB 3 SSD or portable drive for extra storage. It will only be a hardship for 1-2 years as SSD prices drop.
I expect the 13" slim machine will take the place of the Air and Pro - just one model. That would suggest it has to be tapered with Ivy Bridge dual-core (4-thread) and IGP.
The 15" still quad-core with either NVidia or AMD dGPU.
I think high-resolution displays would add too much cost during the transition so same resolution as we have now.
I personally think the laptops are incredibly fast so I don't expect the CPUs to jump up a huge amount in performance but focus more on lowering power consumption and heat output. Look at the current one rendering Cinebench:
Not that they should stop pushing the performance but it's really not the bottleneck ATM. Move to SSD, put in lots of RAM, drop the power consumption and heat and then start bumping performance again next year.
The bias can be ridiculous. They pick an obviously unattractive machine from a single company and assign it a label to be applied to multiple brands from one render jpeg. Sometimes these articles are just really poor, and I have corrected them at times (such as when they picked the incorrect cpus for the fall mbp refresh). These mac sites all just copy each other and change a few words.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
I'm not feeling that design. I think it's tapered all the way, even if it is nearly 1" thick at the very back.
I do expect Ivy Bridge, USB 3.0, HiDPI displays, and the ODD completely removed. I also want other things previously mentioned but those seem less certain.
You're asking for too much in such a slim power envelope if they do in fact go thinner with it. I'm not convinced they'll displace the current mbp. If they did that, you'd most likely see a performance drop rather than flat performance with the current model due to the need to migrate to a ulv cpu comparable to the current 13" air. Given the design similarities, I'm not even sure where estimated performance gains are coming from in Ivy Bridge chips.
If this is true, then it looks like my current MBP better survive for a while or it will be my last. There is nothing PRO about the current airs. I absolutely need an optical drive, and SSD are so far, well too small for me. THE GPU is underwhelming as well. I'm not carrying around external pieces to get one with my daily life for the sake of being thin.
With ya on this one. Personally I love the current mbp design (if it ain't broke don't fix it) and I need as much portable storage as I can get. Music on cd is my thing and as popular and convenient as iTunes is I prefer music quality over file size so an optical drive is necessary. I'm a photographer so storage and screen quality are top of my list. I'd be happy with upgraded processor and better screen. Ssd are way too expensive and small at the moment.
If Apple dropped the current pro in favour of air case with less power etc then predict a rush for the last of the current offerings.
Music on cd is my thing...I prefer music quality over file size so an optical drive is necessary.
I'm a photographer so storage and screen quality are top of my list. I'd be happy with upgraded processor and better screen. Ssd are way too expensive and small at the moment.
Omitting an optical drive frees up space for more performance, storage and battery life.
Surely it's easier to carry ten CD disk images in a larger capacity internal hard/flash drive than ten fragile disks in a CD case?
In fact, you can carry those ten CD images in one small $10 8GB SD card that's easier to insert into a Macbook Pro than a single CD.
Floppy drives were eliminated from Macs in the 90s as far superior and capacious removable storage became available.
We're at that same crossroads now with CD and DVD disks.
Is there any compelling reason why optical drives needs to be built in rather than an optional accessory?
Figures, I just bought a 15" MBP last summer. Can't wait to see what the new designs will look like. Now if they'd only just refresh the Mac Pro line, I'd be a happy camper.
This is exactly why I have waited this long before upgrading ANYTHING....
@ Generic Apple can't make it slim without making it slower and more expensive! Comments
What? How do you arm chair engineers have any clue what Apple is not capable of doing? Have you tried making your own 15" MacBook AirPro at home and it just didn't work out??
With ya on this one. Personally I love the current mbp design (if it ain't broke don't fix it) and I need as much portable storage as I can get. Music on cd is my thing and as popular and convenient as iTunes is I prefer music quality over file size so an optical drive is necessary. I'm a photographer so storage and screen quality are top of my list. I'd be happy with upgraded processor and better screen. Ssd are way too expensive and small at the moment.
If Apple dropped the current pro in favour of air case with less power etc then predict a rush for the last of the current offerings.
Ha, you and the other 6 people who put CDs into your MacBook Pro to listen to music will have a field day on eBay.
I'm a big fan of lossless audio, but here's the thing...1. 16 bit CD audio is far from lossless, so don't kid yourself, and 2. There are ways of managing that digitally without the totally unnecessary physical media.
So when I hear someone say, "I need my CD drive because I like high quality music", I LMAO, because you obviously don't know what you're talking about, nor do you have the inclination to figure it out.
Excessive thinnest is not just a Ethernet issue, it also impacts secondary storage and other fat objects like GPU and CPU fans. There is a real fear in the community that Apple is going after thin in the MBP at the expense of performance. This would be very sad if true because people have always looked to the MBPs as higher performance machines. The AIRs and formerly the Mac Books filled the lower performance niches.
I can see Apple reconfiguring the machine and making it somewhat thinner without creating the limitations many fear are coming. But all of this talk about AIR like machines is disheartening. The option of an AIR already exists, MBP need to remain as machines that are available when AIRs aren't the right solution.
Perhaps Apple is positioning the notebook line so that it forces people to buy two computers. An iMac for the desk and a slimmed down portable for the road. The strategy worked so well for iPhone owners who went out and bought an iPad.
It would be cool if they made all of the MacBooks thin except the 17" which they could even make beefier with Express card and all of the other legacy ports, big fans and hard drives with extra memory slots and the works. That way, for the few who needed ultimate power on the road, they would have a suitable machine. I would probably buy one of each - a slim 15 and a huge 17.
You're asking for too much in such a slim power envelope if they do in fact go thinner with it. I'm not convinced they'll displace the current mbp. If they did that, you'd most likely see a performance drop rather than flat performance with the current model due to the need to migrate to a ulv cpu comparable to the current 13" air. Given the design similarities, I'm not even sure where estimated performance gains are coming from in Ivy Bridge chips.
I'm not following. What do you mean by me asking for too much?
Do you think they will remove the ODD? I do. That will give up a large amount of space for components while also allowing for much more freedom for arranging components since the ODD had to be at the edge in order for the 5.25" disc slot to be useful.
A rough estimate of the ODD is about 150mm x 150 mm x 13 mm. That's 292,500 mm cubed or 18 cubic inches. That's a good amount of savings.
So why would there be a performance drop when they have this extra room and the back of the machine could still be about an inch thick so they can use 35W or 45W TDP CPUs like they do now.
I don't see any reason why a tapering and removal of the ODD would mean they would have to go CULV and thus taking the Pro out of the MBP.
I LOVE it. GONE will be the optical drive at long last making way for a thinner logic board and with that a significantly thinner body. I'm looking forward to USB 3.0 inclusion by way of Intel's Ivy Bridge chipset without the need of an ExpressCard.
And, perhaps most of all, I'd love (L-O-V-E) to see anything in the way of a better display. For example, Retina but no IPS would make me happy. IPS but no Retina would make me happy. Ideally, of course, Retina AND IPS, or at least as an OPTION, would make me ecstatic! Even if it's a $600 option or something similar, I'd happily pay for it.
This'll be sweeeeeet!
P.S.: How about a "Retina" 27" iMac and/or Cinema Display, or is that asking too much?
Perhaps Apple is positioning the notebook line so that it forces people to buy two computers. An iMac for the desk and a slimmed down portable for the road. The strategy worked so well for iPhone owners who went out and bought an iPad.
It would be cool if they made all of the MacBooks thin except the 17" which they could even make beefier with Express card and all of the other legacy ports, big fans and hard drives with extra memory slots and the works. That way, for the few who needed ultimate power on the road, they would have a suitable machine. I would probably buy one of each - a slim 15 and a huge 17.
I hope that's not the case. If they remove the optical drive they should have enough room for decent cooling and the same battery size squished but flattened while still being slimmer than the current ones. I'm even hoping they would have enough thermal headroom to bring the 13' up to the quad core and dGPU's in the 15'. If they didn't, it would just be an Air with no SSD, or if it did have an SSD it would be nearly exactly like the Air. I don't want the Pro 13' to go away, I want it to be what the Pro moniker used to be.
What's not immediately clear is how Apple plans to bridge the gap currently filled by the 13-inch MacBook Pro, though there has been some informed speculation that rumors of MacBook Airs with faster memory and irreplaceable [sic] SSDs originally rumored for last year could materialize this year, possibly opening the door for 13-inch Air-style MacBook Pro with slightly more flexibility and brawn.
Apple could easily convert the MacBook Air line (the "consumer" line) to ARM SoCs if and when their Ax chips are powerful enough. The technical advantages of an ARM-based MacBook Air would include better battery life, cooler operation, and quieter operation (no cooling fans) among others. OS X originally ran on CISC PowerPC chips, after all. And Apple has apparently tested OS X on ARM-based machines already.
An ARM-based MacBook Air line would also give Apple an even bigger cost advantage. As high-profile as Apple is, they don't buy Intel chips in large enough volume to get the kind of deals they have lined up for iOS device components. For consumers and pros who only need light computing (browsing, email, texting, word processing, spreadsheets, iTunes, iWork, iLife, etc.) switching to ARM would be transparent. Same thing, more efficient chip, lower retail price.
Of course, there will always be the "pro" market. It's a smaller market than the consumer market, but it's more profitable, more finicky, and more conservative about adopting cutting-edge Apple technology. They'll stick with legacy Intel-only software, for the next few years anyway, because leviathans like Adobe and Microsoft will take years to port their bloatware "essential apps" to OS X on ARM. And for that pro market, Apple could continue to offer Intel-based MacBook Pros.
Maybe they'll rename the Intel-based MacBook line to "MacBook Classic."
I'm not following. What do you mean by me asking for too much?
Do you think they will remove the ODD? I do. That will give up a large amount of space for components while also allowing for much more freedom for arranging components since the ODD had to be at the edge in order for the 5.25" disc slot to be useful.
A rough estimate of the ODD is about 150mm x 150 mm x 13 mm. That's 292,500 mm cubed or 18 cubic inches. That's a good amount of savings.
So why would there be a performance drop when they have this extra room and the back of the machine could still be about an inch thick so they can use 35W or 45W TDP CPUs like they do now.
I don't see any reason why a tapering and removal of the ODD would mean they would have to go CULV and thus taking the Pro out of the MBP.
I'm going to attribute this to I was still waking up at the time . I hope they do not axe half the ports on it or go for a design too slim to accommodate midrange discrete graphics. It's impossible to tell with Apple though. I would still suggest that Appleinsider is trolling all of you. They really have no idea. They're just copying the other Apple sites on something which may have started from anything.
I'm not following. What do you mean by me asking for too much?
Do you think they will remove the ODD? I do. That will give up a large amount of space for components while also allowing for much more freedom for arranging components since the ODD had to be at the edge in order for the 5.25" disc slot to be useful.
A rough estimate of the ODD is about 150mm x 150 mm x 13 mm. That's 292,500 mm cubed or 18 cubic inches. That's a good amount of savings.
So why would there be a performance drop when they have this extra room and the back of the machine could still be about an inch thick so they can use 35W or 45W TDP CPUs like they do now.
I don't see any reason why a tapering and removal of the ODD would mean they would have to go CULV and thus taking the Pro out of the MBP.
You are correct. There are some people who believe themselves to be engineers, and have no idea what they're talking about, at all.
These people have no vision, or technical knowledge at all.
These people don't even seem to realize how much of the MBP design (and all notebook design) revolved around the Optical drive size/position needs.
By removing Optical form the equation, you must completely re-imagine the innards of a 15" notebook as if you've never built one before. As if one has never even existed. This is what Apple does all the time.
So what use do you have for an ODD? This is going to happen and there's nothing you can do to stop it. It might not happen this year, but it will happen. And you'll have no alternative, because five years after that, PC laptops will stop including optical drives.
Come to think of it, that would still give you time to buy two PC laptops and have them live their entire lives, so have at it.
Honestly the whole "no need for an optical disc drive" is the dumbest argument ever.
YOU may not need one. Apple definitely doesn't see the need to support disc based software that they don't control the distribution of through the Mac app store, nor do they see the need to support Bly-ray or DVD since they want you to buy from iTunes.
That's great to have the OPTION of seem least staying in an Apple controlled ecosystem.
But some of us have software recently purchased on disc and won't upgrade for 5 years.
Also, my blu-ray and DVD collections are nice to watch on computer from time to time (yes fully aware apple doesn't support blue ray at this time), without taking up more hard drive space to import using a third party software, or having to purchase AGAiN through iTunes.
We are still heavily entrenched in an age of optical media.
And to say someone should be happy to buy a windows machine to do the things the apple won't is only admitting to the deficiency such a move would create.
Removing optical is a backwards step. I'm not going to be paying for feature removal just so my already thin laptop can rival the iPad in thinness.
I want power and capability in an attractive package. Logic dictates that the new MBPS should be MORE capable than the model it replaces. Not less.
Let's retire the "no need for disc drive" argument right now. It doesn't work.
And the Mac is not an iPhone/ iPad. Those are secondary devices. (even if some people, who use their computers for the same purposes as their Xbox may use it as a primary). Apple should learn from the Final Cut X fiasco. People aren't okay with feature removal traded off with better looks. Apple had to add features back in. The people wanted them. Much harder to do with optical drive. I doubt they want to reengineer the laptop again in one year.
Let's retire the "no need for disc drive" argument right now. It doesn't work.
And the Mac is not an iPhone/ iPad. Those are secondary devices. (even if some people, who use their computers for the same purposes as their Xbox may use it as a primary). Apple should learn from the Final Cut X fiasco. People aren't okay with feature removal traded off with better looks. Apple had to add features back in. The people wanted them. Much harder to do with optical drive. I doubt they want to reengineer the laptop again in one year.
People said the same thing with the first iMac sans floppy drive. You know it's coming so you may as well adjust to external ODD. No amount of arguing is going to avert the course that Apple is on.
Consumers have moved on. When Intel is flogging ODD less MBA clones you know that's the death signal for integrated ODD.
Apple clearly doesn't care about Blu-ray. I told people this two years ago on these boards. Blu-ray was a non-starter with Apple. They likely envisioned getting rid of the ODD 3 or more years ago.
No one is saying that ODD should die but rather it's usefulness as an integrated item in the chassis has passed. Those that still have software on disc are free to purchase an external drive. Many of us want the funds used for the optical drive to be used to beef up other areas of the notebook that we are likely to use more. Like SSD or faster GPU or longer battery.
I want power and capability in an attractive package. Logic dictates that the new MBPS should be MORE capable than the model it replaces. Not less.
Let's retire the "no need for disc drive" argument right now. It doesn't work.
Does logic also dictate that features the majority need should be built in to the device, features no-one needs should be removed, and features a minority needs should be add-ons?
Because I think we are rapidly approaching the point where ODD falls in to that last category. I know I ripped all my CDs 3 years ago and all my DVDs 18 months ago. I transferred my Windows 7 DVD on to a USB stick. I still have my OS X discs but my 2010 Mac just got Lion Internet restore firmware update last week.
Also, my blu-ray and DVD collections are nice to watch on computer from time to time (yes fully aware apple doesn't support blue ray at this time)
I have a Mac Pro. In addition to the stock Superdrive, I've installed a BD-RE/HD DVD-ROM drive in the second bay. I can play movies directly from the discs and in OS X to boot.
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We are still heavily entrenched in an age of optical media.
Only because you choose to be. You meaning consumers and the few companies that still print physical media.
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Removing optical is a backwards step.
Just like removing floppies, ADB ports, and ATA connectors was.
How's that 5.25" drive treating you?
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And the Mac is not an iPhone/ iPad. Those are secondary devices. (even if some people, who use their computers for the same purposes as their Xbox may use it as a primary).
I don't know who you've insulted more there? gamers or regular people?
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Apple should learn from the Final Cut X fiasco.
Oh, you meant that thing where a bunch of people are whining about how the interface has changed and they're too lazy to relearn their workflow, despite the current model being far superior?
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Much harder to do with optical drive.
We'll have to see. I last used my optical drive to install Snow Leopard on its launch day. I can imagine many others, both Mac and PC users, have had similar timeframes.
To people who think SSDs are still too small/expensive, yes they are. But think about how many of your files are truly yours (something you created) and how many are just media files (Hollywood movies etc).
I am someone who objects to uploading my personal files to the cloud, but don't object to keeping my media collection there. As long as it is done in an "iTunes Match" fashion where I don't have to actually upload it, Apple just gives me access to their copy.
Once Movies in the cloud is enabled, smaller disks will become a lot more practical.
Comments
500 GB SSD $1,399.00 (Apple store)
500 GB 2.5" HDD about $80 (amazon)
In 2011, the average price per GB for SSDs was 32 times that for HDs. People on AI have been predicting the demise of HDs in Apple products for years, because they see it as inevitable that Flash memory will continue to decline in price.
It hasn't happened, it's like Nuclear fusion - always just 30 years away.
The predicted demise of the iPod Classic hasn't happened yet either, obviously because people keep buying Classics as SS memory is too expensive at iPod Touch pricing.
If the next pro has no HDD, it will no longer be 'pro', just a gust of warm Air.
I think Apple might solve a lot of issues by eliminating most ports from the main case and relocate them to the power adapter, with just one combined power, ethernet, thunderbird, display, cable with a hybrid fiber and power mag connector.
I wish someone would eliminate the 3.5 headphone jack and create a magnetic replacement. A lot of headphone cables would be saved.
It hasn't happened because their are so many vested interests to keep it that way. And that applies to 'cold fusion' as well.
Lemon Bon Bon.
I'm not feeling that design. I think it's tapered all the way, even if it is nearly 1" thick at the very back.
They might not be able to do that if they have the same power consumption as it would reduce the battery size significantly.
I suspect they will, otherwise the 13" would look like it's taking a step back but I prefer non-tapered:
No optical as you can buy a cheap external (even Blu-Ray).
USB 3 to replace FW800 and ethernet (4 ports on 15", 2 on 13").
Thunderbolt x 2 on 15", one on 13".
They have to go with 256GB entry SSD on the 15". Removing the optical saves them $100 and with SSD being around $1/GB, they can get 256GB in the entry model. This means no need for an HDD and they can easily have a BTO option for 512GB for $300.
The alternative is to simply get a USB 3 SSD or portable drive for extra storage. It will only be a hardship for 1-2 years as SSD prices drop.
I expect the 13" slim machine will take the place of the Air and Pro - just one model. That would suggest it has to be tapered with Ivy Bridge dual-core (4-thread) and IGP.
The 15" still quad-core with either NVidia or AMD dGPU.
I think high-resolution displays would add too much cost during the transition so same resolution as we have now.
I personally think the laptops are incredibly fast so I don't expect the CPUs to jump up a huge amount in performance but focus more on lowering power consumption and heat output. Look at the current one rendering Cinebench:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9770So2nZ0Q
That's only 1/4-1/5 of some of the highest-end desktops:
http://www.cbscores.com/
Not that they should stop pushing the performance but it's really not the bottleneck ATM. Move to SSD, put in lots of RAM, drop the power consumption and heat and then start bumping performance again next year.
This is a fair representation of state of PC ultrabooks, rather than the one image shown here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJqPcZLOe9I
The bias can be ridiculous. They pick an obviously unattractive machine from a single company and assign it a label to be applied to multiple brands from one render jpeg. Sometimes these articles are just really poor, and I have corrected them at times (such as when they picked the incorrect cpus for the fall mbp refresh). These mac sites all just copy each other and change a few words.
I'm not feeling that design. I think it's tapered all the way, even if it is nearly 1" thick at the very back.
I do expect Ivy Bridge, USB 3.0, HiDPI displays, and the ODD completely removed. I also want other things previously mentioned but those seem less certain.
You're asking for too much in such a slim power envelope if they do in fact go thinner with it. I'm not convinced they'll displace the current mbp. If they did that, you'd most likely see a performance drop rather than flat performance with the current model due to the need to migrate to a ulv cpu comparable to the current 13" air. Given the design similarities, I'm not even sure where estimated performance gains are coming from in Ivy Bridge chips.
If this is true, then it looks like my current MBP better survive for a while or it will be my last. There is nothing PRO about the current airs. I absolutely need an optical drive, and SSD are so far, well too small for me. THE GPU is underwhelming as well. I'm not carrying around external pieces to get one with my daily life for the sake of being thin.
With ya on this one. Personally I love the current mbp design (if it ain't broke don't fix it) and I need as much portable storage as I can get. Music on cd is my thing and as popular and convenient as iTunes is I prefer music quality over file size so an optical drive is necessary. I'm a photographer so storage and screen quality are top of my list. I'd be happy with upgraded processor and better screen. Ssd are way too expensive and small at the moment.
If Apple dropped the current pro in favour of air case with less power etc then predict a rush for the last of the current offerings.
I need as much portable storage as I can get.
Music on cd is my thing...I prefer music quality over file size so an optical drive is necessary.
I'm a photographer so storage and screen quality are top of my list. I'd be happy with upgraded processor and better screen. Ssd are way too expensive and small at the moment.
Omitting an optical drive frees up space for more performance, storage and battery life.
Surely it's easier to carry ten CD disk images in a larger capacity internal hard/flash drive than ten fragile disks in a CD case?
In fact, you can carry those ten CD images in one small $10 8GB SD card that's easier to insert into a Macbook Pro than a single CD.
Floppy drives were eliminated from Macs in the 90s as far superior and capacious removable storage became available.
We're at that same crossroads now with CD and DVD disks.
Is there any compelling reason why optical drives needs to be built in rather than an optional accessory?
Figures, I just bought a 15" MBP last summer. Can't wait to see what the new designs will look like. Now if they'd only just refresh the Mac Pro line, I'd be a happy camper.
This is exactly why I have waited this long before upgrading ANYTHING....
What? How do you arm chair engineers have any clue what Apple is not capable of doing? Have you tried making your own 15" MacBook AirPro at home and it just didn't work out??
Know-it-alls, please STFU.
With ya on this one. Personally I love the current mbp design (if it ain't broke don't fix it) and I need as much portable storage as I can get. Music on cd is my thing and as popular and convenient as iTunes is I prefer music quality over file size so an optical drive is necessary. I'm a photographer so storage and screen quality are top of my list. I'd be happy with upgraded processor and better screen. Ssd are way too expensive and small at the moment.
If Apple dropped the current pro in favour of air case with less power etc then predict a rush for the last of the current offerings.
Ha, you and the other 6 people who put CDs into your MacBook Pro to listen to music will have a field day on eBay.
I'm a big fan of lossless audio, but here's the thing...1. 16 bit CD audio is far from lossless, so don't kid yourself, and 2. There are ways of managing that digitally without the totally unnecessary physical media.
So when I hear someone say, "I need my CD drive because I like high quality music", I LMAO, because you obviously don't know what you're talking about, nor do you have the inclination to figure it out.
Excessive thinnest is not just a Ethernet issue, it also impacts secondary storage and other fat objects like GPU and CPU fans. There is a real fear in the community that Apple is going after thin in the MBP at the expense of performance. This would be very sad if true because people have always looked to the MBPs as higher performance machines. The AIRs and formerly the Mac Books filled the lower performance niches.
I can see Apple reconfiguring the machine and making it somewhat thinner without creating the limitations many fear are coming. But all of this talk about AIR like machines is disheartening. The option of an AIR already exists, MBP need to remain as machines that are available when AIRs aren't the right solution.
Perhaps Apple is positioning the notebook line so that it forces people to buy two computers. An iMac for the desk and a slimmed down portable for the road. The strategy worked so well for iPhone owners who went out and bought an iPad.
It would be cool if they made all of the MacBooks thin except the 17" which they could even make beefier with Express card and all of the other legacy ports, big fans and hard drives with extra memory slots and the works. That way, for the few who needed ultimate power on the road, they would have a suitable machine. I would probably buy one of each - a slim 15 and a huge 17.
You're asking for too much in such a slim power envelope if they do in fact go thinner with it. I'm not convinced they'll displace the current mbp. If they did that, you'd most likely see a performance drop rather than flat performance with the current model due to the need to migrate to a ulv cpu comparable to the current 13" air. Given the design similarities, I'm not even sure where estimated performance gains are coming from in Ivy Bridge chips.
I'm not following. What do you mean by me asking for too much?
Do you think they will remove the ODD? I do. That will give up a large amount of space for components while also allowing for much more freedom for arranging components since the ODD had to be at the edge in order for the 5.25" disc slot to be useful.
A rough estimate of the ODD is about 150mm x 150 mm x 13 mm. That's 292,500 mm cubed or 18 cubic inches. That's a good amount of savings.
So why would there be a performance drop when they have this extra room and the back of the machine could still be about an inch thick so they can use 35W or 45W TDP CPUs like they do now.
I don't see any reason why a tapering and removal of the ODD would mean they would have to go CULV and thus taking the Pro out of the MBP.
And, perhaps most of all, I'd love (L-O-V-E) to see anything in the way of a better display. For example, Retina but no IPS would make me happy. IPS but no Retina would make me happy. Ideally, of course, Retina AND IPS, or at least as an OPTION, would make me ecstatic! Even if it's a $600 option or something similar, I'd happily pay for it.
This'll be sweeeeeet!
P.S.: How about a "Retina" 27" iMac and/or Cinema Display, or is that asking too much?
Perhaps Apple is positioning the notebook line so that it forces people to buy two computers. An iMac for the desk and a slimmed down portable for the road. The strategy worked so well for iPhone owners who went out and bought an iPad.
It would be cool if they made all of the MacBooks thin except the 17" which they could even make beefier with Express card and all of the other legacy ports, big fans and hard drives with extra memory slots and the works. That way, for the few who needed ultimate power on the road, they would have a suitable machine. I would probably buy one of each - a slim 15 and a huge 17.
I hope that's not the case. If they remove the optical drive they should have enough room for decent cooling and the same battery size squished but flattened while still being slimmer than the current ones. I'm even hoping they would have enough thermal headroom to bring the 13' up to the quad core and dGPU's in the 15'. If they didn't, it would just be an Air with no SSD, or if it did have an SSD it would be nearly exactly like the Air. I don't want the Pro 13' to go away, I want it to be what the Pro moniker used to be.
What's not immediately clear is how Apple plans to bridge the gap currently filled by the 13-inch MacBook Pro, though there has been some informed speculation that rumors of MacBook Airs with faster memory and irreplaceable [sic] SSDs originally rumored for last year could materialize this year, possibly opening the door for 13-inch Air-style MacBook Pro with slightly more flexibility and brawn.
Apple could easily convert the MacBook Air line (the "consumer" line) to ARM SoCs if and when their Ax chips are powerful enough. The technical advantages of an ARM-based MacBook Air would include better battery life, cooler operation, and quieter operation (no cooling fans) among others. OS X originally ran on CISC PowerPC chips, after all. And Apple has apparently tested OS X on ARM-based machines already.
An ARM-based MacBook Air line would also give Apple an even bigger cost advantage. As high-profile as Apple is, they don't buy Intel chips in large enough volume to get the kind of deals they have lined up for iOS device components. For consumers and pros who only need light computing (browsing, email, texting, word processing, spreadsheets, iTunes, iWork, iLife, etc.) switching to ARM would be transparent. Same thing, more efficient chip, lower retail price.
Of course, there will always be the "pro" market. It's a smaller market than the consumer market, but it's more profitable, more finicky, and more conservative about adopting cutting-edge Apple technology. They'll stick with legacy Intel-only software, for the next few years anyway, because leviathans like Adobe and Microsoft will take years to port their bloatware "essential apps" to OS X on ARM. And for that pro market, Apple could continue to offer Intel-based MacBook Pros.
Maybe they'll rename the Intel-based MacBook line to "MacBook Classic."
I'm not following. What do you mean by me asking for too much?
Do you think they will remove the ODD? I do. That will give up a large amount of space for components while also allowing for much more freedom for arranging components since the ODD had to be at the edge in order for the 5.25" disc slot to be useful.
A rough estimate of the ODD is about 150mm x 150 mm x 13 mm. That's 292,500 mm cubed or 18 cubic inches. That's a good amount of savings.
So why would there be a performance drop when they have this extra room and the back of the machine could still be about an inch thick so they can use 35W or 45W TDP CPUs like they do now.
I don't see any reason why a tapering and removal of the ODD would mean they would have to go CULV and thus taking the Pro out of the MBP.
I'm going to attribute this to I was still waking up at the time
I'm not following. What do you mean by me asking for too much?
Do you think they will remove the ODD? I do. That will give up a large amount of space for components while also allowing for much more freedom for arranging components since the ODD had to be at the edge in order for the 5.25" disc slot to be useful.
A rough estimate of the ODD is about 150mm x 150 mm x 13 mm. That's 292,500 mm cubed or 18 cubic inches. That's a good amount of savings.
So why would there be a performance drop when they have this extra room and the back of the machine could still be about an inch thick so they can use 35W or 45W TDP CPUs like they do now.
I don't see any reason why a tapering and removal of the ODD would mean they would have to go CULV and thus taking the Pro out of the MBP.
You are correct. There are some people who believe themselves to be engineers, and have no idea what they're talking about, at all.
These people have no vision, or technical knowledge at all.
These people don't even seem to realize how much of the MBP design (and all notebook design) revolved around the Optical drive size/position needs.
By removing Optical form the equation, you must completely re-imagine the innards of a 15" notebook as if you've never built one before. As if one has never even existed. This is what Apple does all the time.
So what use do you have for an ODD? This is going to happen and there's nothing you can do to stop it. It might not happen this year, but it will happen. And you'll have no alternative, because five years after that, PC laptops will stop including optical drives.
Come to think of it, that would still give you time to buy two PC laptops and have them live their entire lives, so have at it.
Honestly the whole "no need for an optical disc drive" is the dumbest argument ever.
YOU may not need one. Apple definitely doesn't see the need to support disc based software that they don't control the distribution of through the Mac app store, nor do they see the need to support Bly-ray or DVD since they want you to buy from iTunes.
That's great to have the OPTION of seem least staying in an Apple controlled ecosystem.
But some of us have software recently purchased on disc and won't upgrade for 5 years.
Also, my blu-ray and DVD collections are nice to watch on computer from time to time (yes fully aware apple doesn't support blue ray at this time), without taking up more hard drive space to import using a third party software, or having to purchase AGAiN through iTunes.
We are still heavily entrenched in an age of optical media.
And to say someone should be happy to buy a windows machine to do the things the apple won't is only admitting to the deficiency such a move would create.
Removing optical is a backwards step. I'm not going to be paying for feature removal just so my already thin laptop can rival the iPad in thinness.
I want power and capability in an attractive package. Logic dictates that the new MBPS should be MORE capable than the model it replaces. Not less.
Let's retire the "no need for disc drive" argument right now. It doesn't work.
And the Mac is not an iPhone/ iPad. Those are secondary devices. (even if some people, who use their computers for the same purposes as their Xbox may use it as a primary). Apple should learn from the Final Cut X fiasco. People aren't okay with feature removal traded off with better looks. Apple had to add features back in. The people wanted them. Much harder to do with optical drive. I doubt they want to reengineer the laptop again in one year.
Let's retire the "no need for disc drive" argument right now. It doesn't work.
And the Mac is not an iPhone/ iPad. Those are secondary devices. (even if some people, who use their computers for the same purposes as their Xbox may use it as a primary). Apple should learn from the Final Cut X fiasco. People aren't okay with feature removal traded off with better looks. Apple had to add features back in. The people wanted them. Much harder to do with optical drive. I doubt they want to reengineer the laptop again in one year.
People said the same thing with the first iMac sans floppy drive. You know it's coming so you may as well adjust to external ODD. No amount of arguing is going to avert the course that Apple is on.
Consumers have moved on. When Intel is flogging ODD less MBA clones you know that's the death signal for integrated ODD.
Apple clearly doesn't care about Blu-ray. I told people this two years ago on these boards. Blu-ray was a non-starter with Apple. They likely envisioned getting rid of the ODD 3 or more years ago.
No one is saying that ODD should die but rather it's usefulness as an integrated item in the chassis has passed. Those that still have software on disc are free to purchase an external drive. Many of us want the funds used for the optical drive to be used to beef up other areas of the notebook that we are likely to use more. Like SSD or faster GPU or longer battery.
I want power and capability in an attractive package. Logic dictates that the new MBPS should be MORE capable than the model it replaces. Not less.
Let's retire the "no need for disc drive" argument right now. It doesn't work.
Does logic also dictate that features the majority need should be built in to the device, features no-one needs should be removed, and features a minority needs should be add-ons?
Because I think we are rapidly approaching the point where ODD falls in to that last category. I know I ripped all my CDs 3 years ago and all my DVDs 18 months ago. I transferred my Windows 7 DVD on to a USB stick. I still have my OS X discs but my 2010 Mac just got Lion Internet restore firmware update last week.
Also, my blu-ray and DVD collections are nice to watch on computer from time to time (yes fully aware apple doesn't support blue ray at this time)
I have a Mac Pro. In addition to the stock Superdrive, I've installed a BD-RE/HD DVD-ROM drive in the second bay. I can play movies directly from the discs and in OS X to boot.
We are still heavily entrenched in an age of optical media.
Only because you choose to be. You meaning consumers and the few companies that still print physical media.
Removing optical is a backwards step.
Just like removing floppies, ADB ports, and ATA connectors was.
How's that 5.25" drive treating you?
And the Mac is not an iPhone/ iPad. Those are secondary devices. (even if some people, who use their computers for the same purposes as their Xbox may use it as a primary).
I don't know who you've insulted more there? gamers or regular people?
Apple should learn from the Final Cut X fiasco.
Oh, you meant that thing where a bunch of people are whining about how the interface has changed and they're too lazy to relearn their workflow, despite the current model being far superior?
Much harder to do with optical drive.
We'll have to see. I last used my optical drive to install Snow Leopard on its launch day. I can imagine many others, both Mac and PC users, have had similar timeframes.
I am someone who objects to uploading my personal files to the cloud, but don't object to keeping my media collection there. As long as it is done in an "iTunes Match" fashion where I don't have to actually upload it, Apple just gives me access to their copy.
Once Movies in the cloud is enabled, smaller disks will become a lot more practical.