Again what are you talking about, my head is spinning. It doesn't matter what size the damn screen is after 3.5 " inches because we know it's going to look good. Please read the guys post I replied to. He was talking about new interfaces and crap like that, I just said if other manufactures can produce 7" inch tablets that are readable then it stands to reason that Apple could make it if not better.
1) His point is perfectly clear. A new display size on a touchscreen OS means a new UI which means a new SDK.
2) You are the one that talking about resolutions and crap that make no sense to his comment.
3) Yes, the display size after 3.5" does matter. It's why the iPhone UI wasn't brought to the iPad the way it was with Moto's lame attempts to get an Android based tablet on the market. The iPad uses CocoaTouch just like the iPhone but the UI was designed from the ground up to be ideal for the display size and aspect ratio.
4) Again, you can't just scale a 10" touchscreen UI to 7" and have it be just as functional. Let me remind you again, you wrote, "They'll scale just fine on a 7 inch screen." I can't see of any other way to take that comment.
1) you can't just scale a 10" touchscreen UI to 7" and have it be just as functional.
Sure you can. Most things on my iPad are too big. Huge keyboard, giant icons, large spaces between elements, etc. Scaled down to 7", they'd be just about perfect. The size and functionality of my 7" Android tablet pretty much IS perfect except for the fact that I have to use Android when I'd rather be using iOS.
My only worry about the current rumours is the constant mention of 7.85" rather than 7.0". I want it no larger than 7". Going from 9.7" to 7.85" isn't a big enough difference in size to bother.
Sure you can. Most things on my iPad are too big. Huge keyboard, giant icons, large spaces between elements, etc. Scaled down to 7", they'd be just about perfect. The size and functionality of my 7" Android tablet pretty much IS perfect except for the fact that I have to use Android when I'd rather be using iOS.
My only worry about the current rumours is the constant mention of 7.85" rather than 7.0". I want it no larger than 7". Going from 9.7" to 7.85" isn't a big enough difference in size to bother.
it's simply not going to happen. Some things won't take much effort at all, like the keyboard, because the goal is to make it reach the width of the display but other things won't scale well, like making the relative spacing between the icons scale down. As you get to a smaller touchscreen display you don't have to space them as far apart relative to their size to prevent clutter.
Look at the iPhone's keyboard compared to iPad. They didn't just scale that up to 8x the size; they redesigned it for make it ideal for the primary I/O. Look at the icon size to spacing ratio between the iPhone and iPad, again, they didn't just scale them up as it would look cluttered.
Apple can make a 7" 3:2, 7.85" 4:3 , 7.938297492973" 16:10 and any other size tablet display they want but any shipping product will have the CocoaTouch UI design to make the most for that display.
I fell like I'm talking with people that have never heard of Apple before. This is their rule, not their exception.
it's simply not going to happen. Some things won't take much effort at all, like the keyboard, because the goal is to make it reach the width of the display but other things won't scale well, like making the relative spacing between the icons scale down. As you get to a smaller touchscreen display you don't have to space them as far apart relative to their size to prevent clutter.
Look at the iPhone's keyboard compared to iPad. They didn't just scale that up to 8x the size; they redesigned it for make it ideal for the primary I/O. Look at the icon size to spacing ratio between the iPhone and iPad, again, they didn't just scale them up as it would look cluttered.
Apple can make a 7" 3:2, 7.85" 4:3 , 7.938297492973" 16:10 and any other size tablet display they want but any shipping product will have the CocoaTouch UI design to make the most for that display.
I fell like I'm talking with people that have never heard of Apple before. This is their rule, not their exception.
Okay Apple won't make a 7" because it won't look good, yay for me. I really don't want to see Apple in this market anyway. It seems like this is the only place where real competition is taking place anyway. We now have such devices like the Samsung 7.7 which I got to tell is one incredible piece of tech. Then there is my little Nook tablet which is one of the most enjoyable toys I own to hack, I have a running version of Ubuntu 11.04 on it, so cool.
So let it be that Steve Jobs doesn't want Apple to make a 7". I think it's best for all party's.
Okay Apple won't make a 7" because it won't look good, yay for me. I really don't want to see Apple in this market anyway. It seems like this is the only place where real competition is taking place anyway. We now have such devices like the Samsung 7.7 which I got to tell is one incredible piece of tech. Then there is my little Nook tablet which is one of the most enjoyable toys I own to hack, I have a running version of Ubuntu 11.04 on it, so cool.
So let it be that Steve Jobs doesn't want Apple to make a 7". I think it's best for all party's.
I never said Apple won't make a 7" tablet. Amazon and B&N make 7" tablet-esque devices as well as 6" eReaders that are perfectly usable... but their UIs were designed for their display sizes.
This isn't a windowed OS. If you go with a new UI that have the size you have adjust all the elements. Scaling down to smaller icons and buttons on a touchscreen isn't going to work. This is what Jobs had an issue with. Tablets were hitting the market with the same UI for a 7" and 10" tablet. He said that the current 7" were DOA... he was right.
You've hit on a major marketing issue.
i've resized all my icons with one application (shrink) from cydia
so this is no monumental task
i mean for all the games designed for 1024x768
they will work well on the 7-8" ipad
and its not like apple works hard when they release a new resolution
the standard ipad has sooo much space between the icons
whats the point of a high resolution when you don't use it?
that's why the first 2 cydia apps i install are shrunk and iconoclasm
and its not like apple works hard when they release a new resolution
Quote:
the standard ipad has sooo much space between the icons
whats the point of a high resolution when you don't use it?
What's the point of not cluttering up the entire display with icons to the point it's unusable? Gee, I wonder.
Quote:
and i shrink my icons to 85%
looks great
I would love to see a screenshot of your iPad's display with icons scaled down by 85% and spaced close together. What can you get, about 100 icons per Home Screen?
I never said Apple won't make a 7" tablet. Amazon and B&N make 7" tablet-esque devices as well as 6" eReaders that are perfectly usable... but their UIs were designed for their display sizes.
Have you ever played around with the Nook tablet? Isn't it such a nice little device for 250 bucks. I mean you get a dual core cpu with 1GB RAM and 16GB of storage with a MiniSD card slot. Install ICS 4.03 on it and you have yourself one heck of a fun toy. It's very thin, attractive and light.
I bought a bunch of them for my family last year as holiday gifts. My Mom who doesn't really like computers loved it so much we just updated her to the Xoom 2 Media Edition 8.2" for her birthday. I just love tablets, we bought her a Macbook Air last year but she never used it. I was so mad to I spent forever trying to teach her how to use but the tablet she picked up very quick.
Oh sorry the reason for the story the iPad was to big for her she wanted something that fit in her purse. So the Nook and now Media Pad are the perfect size. Plus teaching her how to transfer her music and video with the iPad would have been a nightmare. This way she plugs the Motorola into my Dads iMac, it mounts it self as drive and she simply drags the movies and music she wants over to the Mototrola. Easy peasy no fuss and it works for her. I also got her addicted to torrents now which makes me the worst daughter in history.
Have you ever played around with the Nook tablet? Isn't it such a nice little device for 250 bucks. I mean you get a dual core cpu with 1GB RAM and 16GB of storage with a MiniSD card slot. Install ICS 4.03 on it and you have yourself one heck of a fun toy. It's very thin, attractive and light.
They are $199 now. I am not familiar with any Nook Tablets that had 1GB RAM and 16GB storage. But yes, for the money I think they are quite good at what they do.
They are $199 now. I am not familiar with any Nook Tablets that had 1GB RAM and 16GB storage. But yes, for the money I think they are quite good at what they do.
Yeah their 200 for the 8GB and still 250 for the 16GB. I gave them to my family already flashed with with a full version of Android on them so it was pretty much a fully functional tablet without the camera of course. That was a fun filled Saturday, flashing 6 tablets.
Sure the iPad is superior in a lot of ways but I have to say Android is a pretty versatile and powerful OS as well. Especially their new version 4.03, it's really quick on very tamed hardware. I especially like the codec support and the ability to mount pretty much every network drive that is available including ones that need VPN. All out of the box mind you.
The level of customization, widgets, a file manager that can access the entire drive, the ability to mount its self as a drive on any computer via USB, full Samba support to access Windows networks. Sorry to go on but the OS is free and open sourced and defiantly gives iOS a run for it's money. No, they don't look anything alike for those who are thinking well yeah Google just copied Apple. I'm looking at both systems right now and the only similarity I can find is on iOS's notification system.
I just love tablets and can't wait to see what Window 8 for ARM brings us.
Sure the iPad is superior in a lot of ways but I have to say Android is a pretty versatile and powerful OS as well.
Anyone that doesn't thing Android is a powerful and/or versatile OS doesn't know what they are talking about. That said, being a powerful and being versatile OS doesn't automatically make an ideal OS for CE. Their attention to detail with the HW and their attention to detail in the OS to make it work well with the HW, and work well to tie their devices together as well as a strong content ecosystem. It's no longer about individual aspects but multiple aspects all working together to make the user experience as seamless as possible. This is why Apple dominates the profits in PC, PMP, handset and tablet markets.
Anybody who thinks Solipsism is talking crap need only run the simulator and hit Cmd-2 - to show the iPad at 75%. The icons are fine, the spacing is large, the text is readable.
Anybody who thinks Solipsism is talking crap need only run the simulator and hit Cmd-2 - to show the iPad at 75%. The icons are fine, the spacing is large, the text is readable.
How does one read "not ideal for Apple attention to detail" and thing it means "not readable"?
I'll make a bet with you If Apple releases a 7.x" iPad WITHOUT idealizing the UI for the display then I'll buy you one. If Apple does release a 7.x" iPad WITH an idealized UI for the display you buy me one.
I'll make a bet with you If Apple releases a 7.x" iPad WITHOUT idealizing the UI for the display then I'll buy you one. If Apple does release a 7.x" iPad WITH an idealized UI for the display you buy me one.
That's one bet you won't lose.
Tell you guys what, I'll hold your money in escrow. If Apple never makes a 7" iPad, I'll buy myself a regular one!
What's the point of not cluttering up the entire display with icons to the point it's unusable? Gee, I wonder.
I would love to see a screenshot of your iPad's display with icons scaled down by 85% and spaced close together. What can you get, about 100 icons per Home Screen?
Sorry
They are reduced by 90%
85% is what I use on my iPhone
Here is a screenshot
It's not crazy busy
I think it looks good, suits the size of the iPad screen better
I have a honest question, say I have neighbor who has 6+ TB of movies and music on a computer that he's collected over a a long period of time. The media is a mixture of different codecs just like most peoples questionable collections. Which platform would you recommend as a first time tablet buyer who wants to play all his media. A iPad or a popular Android tablet, The user has never used either platform.
There's no wrong answers here just want to know which tablet would you suggest.
That is NOT a reduction by 90%. That looks like it might be a reduction to 90% of it's original size. A reduction by 90% would make the icons 1/10th their normal size which means the icons would take up 8x8 pixels when rounded up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic
I have a honest question, say I have neighbor who has 6+ TB of movies and music on a computer that he's collected over a a long period of time. The media is a mixture of different codecs just like most peoples questionable collections. Which platform would you recommend as a first time tablet buyer who wants to play all his media. A iPad or a popular Android tablet, The user has never used either platform.
1) The buyer should always get the product that they think fits their needs best.
2) Since you've presented this hypothetical as only using multiple codecs collected over a very long time that includes video the only answer is a tablet that can play every potential codec either out of the box or with an add on. You've phrased in a way that is not a fallacious argument but it's a niche hypothetical geared to only allow the the Android tablet to be the only option. I think there is a philosophical term for that kind of statement but I can't think of it.
Comments
Again what are you talking about, my head is spinning. It doesn't matter what size the damn screen is after 3.5 " inches because we know it's going to look good. Please read the guys post I replied to. He was talking about new interfaces and crap like that, I just said if other manufactures can produce 7" inch tablets that are readable then it stands to reason that Apple could make it if not better.
1) His point is perfectly clear. A new display size on a touchscreen OS means a new UI which means a new SDK.
2) You are the one that talking about resolutions and crap that make no sense to his comment.
3) Yes, the display size after 3.5" does matter. It's why the iPhone UI wasn't brought to the iPad the way it was with Moto's lame attempts to get an Android based tablet on the market. The iPad uses CocoaTouch just like the iPhone but the UI was designed from the ground up to be ideal for the display size and aspect ratio.
4) Again, you can't just scale a 10" touchscreen UI to 7" and have it be just as functional. Let me remind you again, you wrote, "They'll scale just fine on a 7 inch screen." I can't see of any other way to take that comment.
1) you can't just scale a 10" touchscreen UI to 7" and have it be just as functional.
Sure you can. Most things on my iPad are too big. Huge keyboard, giant icons, large spaces between elements, etc. Scaled down to 7", they'd be just about perfect. The size and functionality of my 7" Android tablet pretty much IS perfect except for the fact that I have to use Android when I'd rather be using iOS.
My only worry about the current rumours is the constant mention of 7.85" rather than 7.0". I want it no larger than 7". Going from 9.7" to 7.85" isn't a big enough difference in size to bother.
Sure you can. Most things on my iPad are too big. Huge keyboard, giant icons, large spaces between elements, etc. Scaled down to 7", they'd be just about perfect. The size and functionality of my 7" Android tablet pretty much IS perfect except for the fact that I have to use Android when I'd rather be using iOS.
My only worry about the current rumours is the constant mention of 7.85" rather than 7.0". I want it no larger than 7". Going from 9.7" to 7.85" isn't a big enough difference in size to bother.
it's simply not going to happen. Some things won't take much effort at all, like the keyboard, because the goal is to make it reach the width of the display but other things won't scale well, like making the relative spacing between the icons scale down. As you get to a smaller touchscreen display you don't have to space them as far apart relative to their size to prevent clutter.
Look at the iPhone's keyboard compared to iPad. They didn't just scale that up to 8x the size; they redesigned it for make it ideal for the primary I/O. Look at the icon size to spacing ratio between the iPhone and iPad, again, they didn't just scale them up as it would look cluttered.
Apple can make a 7" 3:2, 7.85" 4:3 , 7.938297492973" 16:10 and any other size tablet display they want but any shipping product will have the CocoaTouch UI design to make the most for that display.
I fell like I'm talking with people that have never heard of Apple before. This is their rule, not their exception.
it's simply not going to happen. Some things won't take much effort at all, like the keyboard, because the goal is to make it reach the width of the display but other things won't scale well, like making the relative spacing between the icons scale down. As you get to a smaller touchscreen display you don't have to space them as far apart relative to their size to prevent clutter.
Look at the iPhone's keyboard compared to iPad. They didn't just scale that up to 8x the size; they redesigned it for make it ideal for the primary I/O. Look at the icon size to spacing ratio between the iPhone and iPad, again, they didn't just scale them up as it would look cluttered.
Apple can make a 7" 3:2, 7.85" 4:3 , 7.938297492973" 16:10 and any other size tablet display they want but any shipping product will have the CocoaTouch UI design to make the most for that display.
I fell like I'm talking with people that have never heard of Apple before. This is their rule, not their exception.
Okay Apple won't make a 7" because it won't look good, yay for me. I really don't want to see Apple in this market anyway. It seems like this is the only place where real competition is taking place anyway. We now have such devices like the Samsung 7.7 which I got to tell is one incredible piece of tech. Then there is my little Nook tablet which is one of the most enjoyable toys I own to hack, I have a running version of Ubuntu 11.04 on it, so cool.
So let it be that Steve Jobs doesn't want Apple to make a 7". I think it's best for all party's.
Okay Apple won't make a 7" because it won't look good, yay for me. I really don't want to see Apple in this market anyway. It seems like this is the only place where real competition is taking place anyway. We now have such devices like the Samsung 7.7 which I got to tell is one incredible piece of tech. Then there is my little Nook tablet which is one of the most enjoyable toys I own to hack, I have a running version of Ubuntu 11.04 on it, so cool.
So let it be that Steve Jobs doesn't want Apple to make a 7". I think it's best for all party's.
I never said Apple won't make a 7" tablet. Amazon and B&N make 7" tablet-esque devices as well as 6" eReaders that are perfectly usable... but their UIs were designed for their display sizes.
I never said Apple won't make a 7" tablet.
Damn! There goes the neighborhood.
This isn't a windowed OS. If you go with a new UI that have the size you have adjust all the elements. Scaling down to smaller icons and buttons on a touchscreen isn't going to work. This is what Jobs had an issue with. Tablets were hitting the market with the same UI for a 7" and 10" tablet. He said that the current 7" were DOA... he was right.
You've hit on a major marketing issue.
i've resized all my icons with one application (shrink) from cydia
so this is no monumental task
i mean for all the games designed for 1024x768
they will work well on the 7-8" ipad
and its not like apple works hard when they release a new resolution
the standard ipad has sooo much space between the icons
whats the point of a high resolution when you don't use it?
that's why the first 2 cydia apps i install are shrunk and iconoclasm
so i can fit 5x5 icons plus the dock
and i shrink my icons to 85%
looks great
and its not like apple works hard when they release a new resolution
the standard ipad has sooo much space between the icons
whats the point of a high resolution when you don't use it?
What's the point of not cluttering up the entire display with icons to the point it's unusable? Gee, I wonder.
and i shrink my icons to 85%
looks great
I would love to see a screenshot of your iPad's display with icons scaled down by 85% and spaced close together. What can you get, about 100 icons per Home Screen?
I never said Apple won't make a 7" tablet. Amazon and B&N make 7" tablet-esque devices as well as 6" eReaders that are perfectly usable... but their UIs were designed for their display sizes.
Have you ever played around with the Nook tablet? Isn't it such a nice little device for 250 bucks. I mean you get a dual core cpu with 1GB RAM and 16GB of storage with a MiniSD card slot. Install ICS 4.03 on it and you have yourself one heck of a fun toy. It's very thin, attractive and light.
I bought a bunch of them for my family last year as holiday gifts. My Mom who doesn't really like computers loved it so much we just updated her to the Xoom 2 Media Edition 8.2" for her birthday. I just love tablets, we bought her a Macbook Air last year but she never used it. I was so mad to I spent forever trying to teach her how to use but the tablet she picked up very quick.
Oh sorry the reason for the story the iPad was to big for her she wanted something that fit in her purse. So the Nook and now Media Pad are the perfect size. Plus teaching her how to transfer her music and video with the iPad would have been a nightmare. This way she plugs the Motorola into my Dads iMac, it mounts it self as drive and she simply drags the movies and music she wants over to the Mototrola. Easy peasy no fuss and it works for her. I also got her addicted to torrents now which makes me the worst daughter in history.
Have you ever played around with the Nook tablet? Isn't it such a nice little device for 250 bucks. I mean you get a dual core cpu with 1GB RAM and 16GB of storage with a MiniSD card slot. Install ICS 4.03 on it and you have yourself one heck of a fun toy. It's very thin, attractive and light.
They are $199 now. I am not familiar with any Nook Tablets that had 1GB RAM and 16GB storage. But yes, for the money I think they are quite good at what they do.
They are $199 now. I am not familiar with any Nook Tablets that had 1GB RAM and 16GB storage. But yes, for the money I think they are quite good at what they do.
Yeah their 200 for the 8GB and still 250 for the 16GB. I gave them to my family already flashed with with a full version of Android on them so it was pretty much a fully functional tablet without the camera of course. That was a fun filled Saturday, flashing 6 tablets.
The level of customization, widgets, a file manager that can access the entire drive, the ability to mount its self as a drive on any computer via USB, full Samba support to access Windows networks. Sorry to go on but the OS is free and open sourced and defiantly gives iOS a run for it's money. No, they don't look anything alike for those who are thinking well yeah Google just copied Apple. I'm looking at both systems right now and the only similarity I can find is on iOS's notification system.
I just love tablets and can't wait to see what Window 8 for ARM brings us.
Sure the iPad is superior in a lot of ways but I have to say Android is a pretty versatile and powerful OS as well.
Anyone that doesn't thing Android is a powerful and/or versatile OS doesn't know what they are talking about. That said, being a powerful and being versatile OS doesn't automatically make an ideal OS for CE. Their attention to detail with the HW and their attention to detail in the OS to make it work well with the HW, and work well to tie their devices together as well as a strong content ecosystem. It's no longer about individual aspects but multiple aspects all working together to make the user experience as seamless as possible. This is why Apple dominates the profits in PC, PMP, handset and tablet markets.
Anybody who thinks Solipsism is talking crap need only run the simulator and hit Cmd-2 - to show the iPad at 75%. The icons are fine, the spacing is large, the text is readable.
How does one read "not ideal for Apple attention to detail" and thing it means "not readable"?
I'll make a bet with you If Apple releases a 7.x" iPad WITHOUT idealizing the UI for the display then I'll buy you one. If Apple does release a 7.x" iPad WITH an idealized UI for the display you buy me one.
I'll make a bet with you If Apple releases a 7.x" iPad WITHOUT idealizing the UI for the display then I'll buy you one. If Apple does release a 7.x" iPad WITH an idealized UI for the display you buy me one.
That's one bet you won't lose.
Tell you guys what, I'll hold your money in escrow. If Apple never makes a 7" iPad, I'll buy myself a regular one!
What's the point of not cluttering up the entire display with icons to the point it's unusable? Gee, I wonder.
I would love to see a screenshot of your iPad's display with icons scaled down by 85% and spaced close together. What can you get, about 100 icons per Home Screen?
Sorry
They are reduced by 90%
85% is what I use on my iPhone
Here is a screenshot
It's not crazy busy
I think it looks good, suits the size of the iPad screen better
That's what Apple charges for an 8GB iPod Touch with a 3.5" TN panel and a lot less HW features than the iPad.
I know- I said to replace the touch.
There's no wrong answers here just want to know which tablet would you suggest.
Sorry
They are reduced by 90%
85% is what I use on my iPhone
Here is a screenshot
It's not crazy busy
I think it looks good, suits the size of the iPad screen better
image: http://kmarei.minidns.net:8000/files/photo.PNG
That is NOT a reduction by 90%. That looks like it might be a reduction to 90% of it's original size. A reduction by 90% would make the icons 1/10th their normal size which means the icons would take up 8x8 pixels when rounded up.
I have a honest question, say I have neighbor who has 6+ TB of movies and music on a computer that he's collected over a a long period of time. The media is a mixture of different codecs just like most peoples questionable collections. Which platform would you recommend as a first time tablet buyer who wants to play all his media. A iPad or a popular Android tablet, The user has never used either platform.
1) The buyer should always get the product that they think fits their needs best.
2) Since you've presented this hypothetical as only using multiple codecs collected over a very long time that includes video the only answer is a tablet that can play every potential codec either out of the box or with an add on. You've phrased in a way that is not a fallacious argument but it's a niche hypothetical geared to only allow the the Android tablet to be the only option. I think there is a philosophical term for that kind of statement but I can't think of it.