There is a lot right about this, but we should not ignore that Nokia was still outselling Apple in smartphones, and overall profitable when Elop came in. The N9 was maybe the most-praised version one mobile phone since the original iPhone, but Elop ordered to only sell it in markets that are (on a global scale) largely irrelevant to maintain his cozy position: ankle-deep and head-first in Ballmer's behind.
1) There was a clear trend before Elop took teh helm that the Nokia ship was sinking so implying that it's sinking because of Elop is a fallacy.
2) If you want to argue that it's sinking faster because of the fat trimming Elop issued then you'd have to show that they canned profitable ares of their business. I don't think that is possible.
What would have been the right horse for Nokia to bet on?
their best bet would have been to buy time with some Android devices, at least people buy them. All the while, revamp Symbian into something shiny so they can be innovative rather than just another clone maker like they are with Microsoft Windows Phone.
1) There was a clear trend before Elop took teh helm that the Nokia ship was sinking so implying that it's sinking because of Elop is a fallacy.
2) If you want to argue that it's sinking faster because of the fat trimming Elop issued then you'd have to show that they canned profitable ares of their business. I don't think that is possible.
1) When Elop came, Nokia was still having increasing sales numbers (as the market was growing, they were only losing share, which was only natural, as their share was enormous and only due to a complete lack of competition before Apple appeared), only now they are really going down. Nokia was still making profits while feeding thousands more employees than today.
2) Palm and RIM have shown that you can develop an acceptable GUI within a year. If Nokia had invested a fraction of what they are losing now into stopping that Open Source Symbian madness and getting actual professionals to do it, they would be in a much better position today. Symbian had the most efficient baseband of any mobile OS, and Nokia had to pay nobody to use it. MeeGo was, out of the door, more feature complete than WP7 is today. The Ovi Store was only second to Apple. Nobody had more billing agreements for online purchases with carriers than Nokia, now carriers shun them, because they are in bed with the arch-enemy Skype.
Globally, now 92% of former Nokia smartphone users renewing their contracts choose a non-Nokia phone. That is the worst retention rate I have ever heard of, maybe the worst of any global company ever.
When you release a do-or-die product (the Lumia 800) in your home market (Europe) and MS has to give away free Xboxes to even achieve 2% market share... you are done and you did bet on the wrong Trojan horse. People do not carry millions of iOS and Android devices into the office because they love Windows. No need to proof anything here, it's glaringly obvious.
FWIW - I am going to ASSUME you guys are more than just fanboys... because none of the comments REALLY speak to how good/great the Nokia Lumia 800 and 900 phones actually are.
I've been using the iPhone since 2007, and gone through the last 3 iterations of it.
And to me... it's time Apple stop just rolling out a better camera, or video, or memory...
Dear Apple, how about a REALLY significant OS?
My point it, success, to me, is keeping Apple BACK from innovating.
I mean heck, when you sell THE BEST SELLING phone, what is there to motivate you to REALLY make it better?
The reason why people were SO disappointed with the 4s... it was an incremental upgrade at best from the 4. You can argue better camera or video or processor... but to users like me... was it worth the $199+ upgrade from a phone I bought 2 years ago that does essentially the same thing still?
If you disagree, then why does Apple tout Siri so much? Gimmick.
If anything you guys, you need to think bigger picture...
Microsoft and Nokia are rolling out a serious paradigm shift in mobile UI with live tile functions, not just more "widgets"...
A successful Nokia/Microsoft phone means Apple/Android developers will think "different" about their approach to phone OS/apps...
And not just keep riding the success wave... to mediocrity.
1) When Elop came, Nokia was still having increasing sales numbers (as the market was growing, they were only losing share, which was only natural, as their share was enormous and only due to a complete lack of competition before Apple appeared), only now they are really going down. Nokia was still making profits while feeding thousands more employees than today.
2) Palm and RIM have shown that you can develop an acceptable GUI within a year. If Nokia had invested a fraction of what they are losing now into stopping that Open Source Symbian madness and getting actual professionals to do it, they would be in a much better position today. Symbian had the most efficient baseband of any mobile OS, and Nokia had to pay nobody to use it. MeeGo was, out of the door, more feature complete than WP7 is today. The Ovi Store was only second to Apple. Nobody had more billing agreements for online purchases with carriers than Nokia, now carriers shun them, because they are in bed with the arch-enemy Skype.
Globally, now 92% of former Nokia smartphone users renewing their contracts choose a non-Nokia phone. That is the worst retention rate I have ever heard of, maybe the worst of any global company ever.
When you release a do-or-die product (the Lumia 800) in your home market (Europe) and MS has to give away free Xboxes to even achieve 2% market share... you are done and you did bet on the wrong Trojan horse. People do not carry millions of iOS and Android devices into the office because they love Windows. No need to proof anything here, it's glaringly obvious.
There is just so much wrong with your comments that I'll just address one part with a deadly blow.
That's CEO Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo at the helm, almost a year before Elop signed on.
Where is the deadly blow here? You just confirmed what I said: They were still profitable. Now they are predicting 6 months of significant losses in a row, and no plan how to improve after these 6 months in sight. They have traded a lacking platform for no platform.
2) Palm and RIM have shown that you can develop an acceptable GUI within a year. If Nokia had invested a fraction of what they are losing now into stopping that Open Source Symbian madness and getting actual professionals to do it, they would be in a much better position today. Symbian had the most efficient baseband of any mobile OS, and Nokia had to pay nobody to use it. MeeGo was, out of the door, more feature complete than WP7 is today. The Ovi Store was only second to Apple. Nobody had more billing agreements for online purchases with carriers than Nokia, now carriers shun them, because they are in bed with the arch-enemy Skype.
<...>.
Indeed. It was a major mistake to reproduce the PC model, where, as it was said "one third of the profit goes to the chipmaker, and the other to Microsoft". Furthermore, mobile devices are such highly integrated equipments, that Apple's hardware&software integrated model is the only viable, as it enables the best hardware/software design choices trade-offs.
Where is the deadly blow here? You just confirmed what I said: They were still profitable. Now they are predicting 6 months of significant losses in a row, and no plan how to improve after these 6 months in sight. They have traded a lacking platform for no platform.
Forgive Solip. His brain has something fell of and never come back right since he had that chemotherapy. The same way Daniel Dilger is never himself again after the concussion from that motorcycle accident.
FWIW - I am going to ASSUME you guys are more than just fanboys... because none of the comments REALLY speak to how good/great the Nokia Lumia 800 and 900 phones actually are.
I've been using the iPhone since 2007, and gone through the last 3 iterations of it.
And to me... it's time Apple stop just rolling out a better camera, or video, or memory...
Dear Apple, how about a REALLY significant OS?
My point it, success, to me, is keeping Apple BACK from innovating.
I mean heck, when you sell THE BEST SELLING phone, what is there to motivate you to REALLY make it better?
The reason why people were SO disappointed with the 4s... it was an incremental upgrade at best from the 4. You can argue better camera or video or processor... but to users like me... was it worth the $199+ upgrade from a phone I bought 2 years ago that does essentially the same thing still?
If you disagree, then why does Apple tout Siri so much? Gimmick.
If anything you guys, you need to think bigger picture...
Microsoft and Nokia are rolling out a serious paradigm shift in mobile UI with live tile functions, not just more "widgets"...
A successful Nokia/Microsoft phone means Apple/Android developers will think "different" about their approach to phone OS/apps...
And not just keep riding the success wave... to mediocrity.
Sure. Apple's evil because they haven't found a way to install a fusion generator into the iPhone to provide free energy for all of your appliances. Or maybe they should build in a transporter. :roll eyes:
What does it take to consider something a "really significant OS"? Isn't it enough that they've revolutionized the phone and now the tablet markets and the rest of the world is playing catch-up?
Apple is not going to promote change for the sake of change. If there's a better paradigm, I'm sure they'd consider it, but so far, no one has come up with one.
Where is the deadly blow here? You just confirmed what I said: They were still profitable. Now they are predicting 6 months of significant losses in a row, and no plan how to improve after these 6 months in sight. They have traded a lacking platform for no platform.
And the Titanic was mostly above the water when people were jumping ship.
So where is your prof that Elop is the one that sank Nokia?
Nokia estimates that it sold 12 million "smart devices" in the first quarter of 2012, along with 71 million mobile phones. Its gross margins on smart device sales are estimated to have been around 16 percent.
Nokia said it sold more than 2 million of its new Windows Phone-powered Lumia handsets in the first quarter of 2012.
<...>
[ View article on AppleInsider ][/URL]
How many different models to reach those figures ? This reminds me a personal experience, back to the time I was a consultant. My customer was a (large) company, present at that time in the mobile phones business (it is no longer). The executive guy representing my customer had been put under pressure to achieve the impossible goal of shrinking development schedules to a just few months, the basic reasoning behind this being that coming as early as possible on the market with a continuous flow of new models was the key to success.
That goal was not only impossible to achieve, but also a wrong one, as Apple demonstrated it.
This is where really good managers distinguish themselves from bad ones : setting the right goals, having the right perspective and vision ...
Forgive Solip. His brain has something fell of and never come back right since he had that chemotherapy. The same way Daniel Dilger is never himself again after the concussion from that motorcycle accident.
Hence X prefix. He is not who he was.
That's an interesting personal attack. Care to elaborate on my supposed chemotherapy or is this just some negative slant you have against those with cancer?
Elop was part of the MS deal that's currently destroying Nokia. He's a Microsoft man. Not sure you can say he sunk the ship, he just drilled another few holes in the hull.
And Nokia would have been fine using Symbian or Meego or buying or building yet another OS?
[...] Nokia's announcement on disappointing sales comes just as the company has begun offering a $100 credit on its $99 Lumia 900 flagship smartphone, due to a software bug affecting data connections. [...]
And why is it necessary to replace said phones instead of simply issuing a software and/or firmware update?
Could it be, I dunno, because Microsoft just doesn't have the infrastructure in place?
Microsoft strikes again. They've turned the Lumia 900 into the Blue Phone Of Death.
Forgive Solip. His brain has something fell of and never come back right since he had that chemotherapy. The same way Daniel Dilger is never himself again after the concussion from that motorcycle accident.
Hence X prefix. He is not who he was.
Well, everybody can have an own opinion. It is just defying any logic.
Looking at the profitability Samsung achieved with Android (not that I wanted one) and Nokia's proven ability to do better hardware at reasonable cost, it is 100% obvious that Nokia could still be profitable, if they went that route (they would still pay MS for patents, sure, but certainly less than for the full OS that nobody wants).
Looking at even RIM having an 4 times higher customer retention rate than Nokia (in smartphones) with an OS 7 that is really just a four year old 5.x with some lipstick on hardware that has not improved in a decade, it is 100% clear that people actively avoid the Windows (or MS) brand. Heck, HTC had some models where the Android and the WP7 hardware were almost identical, telcos were selling the WP7 variants for significantly less, because nobody wanted them, and still people chose Android. Everybody knowing people (at large) knows how much they must hate something to voluntarily pay more.
To call the WP7 decision by Nokia a right step is a severe form of denial. Sure, MS has deep pockets and may over the next 5 years buy some market share (maybe at least the roughly 8% globally Windows Mobile once had, which proves that a certain potentially addressable market of masochists exists)... just, Nokia does not have that time.
FWIW - I am going to ASSUME you guys are more than just fanboys... because none of the comments REALLY speak to how good/great the Nokia Lumia 800 and 900 phones actually are.
I've been using the iPhone since 2007, and gone through the last 3 iterations of it.
And to me... it's time Apple stop just rolling out a better camera, or video, or memory...
Dear Apple, how about a REALLY significant OS?
My point it, success, to me, is keeping Apple BACK from innovating.
I mean heck, when you sell THE BEST SELLING phone, what is there to motivate you to REALLY make it better?
The reason why people were SO disappointed with the 4s... it was an incremental upgrade at best from the 4. You can argue better camera or video or processor... but to users like me... was it worth the $199+ upgrade from a phone I bought 2 years ago that does essentially the same thing still?
If you disagree, then why does Apple tout Siri so much? Gimmick.
If anything you guys, you need to think bigger picture...
Microsoft and Nokia are rolling out a serious paradigm shift in mobile UI with live tile functions, not just more "widgets"...
A successful Nokia/Microsoft phone means Apple/Android developers will think "different" about their approach to phone OS/apps...
And not just keep riding the success wave... to mediocrity.
Nokia/Microsoft are just coping Apple and using an absolutely horrendously bad UI to do it. "live tiles" are a horrible UI construct. Astro-turf much?
Well, everybody can have an own opinion. It is just defying any logic.
Looking at the profitability Samsung achieved with Android (not that I wanted one) and Nokia's proven ability to do better hardware at reasonable cost, it is 100% obvious that Nokia could still be profitable, if they went that route (they would still pay MS for patents, sure, but certainly less than for the full OS that nobody wants).
Looking at even RIM having an 4 times higher customer retention rate than Nokia (in smartphones) with an OS 7 that is really just a four year old 5.x with some lipstick on hardware that has not improved in a decade, it is 100% clear that people actively avoid the Windows (or MS) brand. Heck, HTC had some models where the Android and the WP7 hardware were almost identical, telcos were selling the WP7 variants for significantly less, because nobody wanted them, and still people chose Android. Everybody knowing people (at large) knows how much they must hate something to voluntarily pay more.
To call the WP7 decision by Nokia a right step is a severe form of denial. Sure, MS has deep pockets and may over the next 5 years buy some market share (maybe at least the roughly 8% globally Windows Mobile once had, which proves that a certain potentially addressable market of masochists exists)... just, Nokia does not have that time.
totally agree with all your points. Nokia is dead now that they are just a Windows Phone clone maker. Android would have at least gave them some customers. that Microsoft money is going to run dry at some point.
Well, everybody can have an own opinion. It is just defying any logic.
Defying logic is to say that because Nokia was still making a profit before Elop signed on as CEO that Nokia would have continued to make a profit if he had not, despite the rapid drop YoY in profit.
You can't rationally defend this because there is nothing to suggest that Nokia was going to remain profitable. They had no viable products in the pipeline and no avenue to get themselves out of the hole they dug log before Elop was on board. The iCeberg (see what I did there?) had done its damage in 2007 and it was just a matter of time before the Nokianic sank below the water line.
This is why a new CEO was brought on but the change was going to happen over a very long period, not overnight. You can blame Elop all you want for Nokia's woes, and some of them might be true, but to say that Elop is responsible for Nokia not being profitable is bullshit, he was just the newly appointed captain when it happened.
Comments
There is a lot right about this, but we should not ignore that Nokia was still outselling Apple in smartphones, and overall profitable when Elop came in. The N9 was maybe the most-praised version one mobile phone since the original iPhone, but Elop ordered to only sell it in markets that are (on a global scale) largely irrelevant to maintain his cozy position: ankle-deep and head-first in Ballmer's behind.
1) There was a clear trend before Elop took teh helm that the Nokia ship was sinking so implying that it's sinking because of Elop is a fallacy.
2) If you want to argue that it's sinking faster because of the fat trimming Elop issued then you'd have to show that they canned profitable ares of their business. I don't think that is possible.
What would have been the right horse for Nokia to bet on?
their best bet would have been to buy time with some Android devices, at least people buy them. All the while, revamp Symbian into something shiny so they can be innovative rather than just another clone maker like they are with Microsoft Windows Phone.
LOL - it looks like the anodized aluminum iPod from several years ago. Very innovative!!!!
color is exactly the same as the blue 4th gen iPod nano.
1) There was a clear trend before Elop took teh helm that the Nokia ship was sinking so implying that it's sinking because of Elop is a fallacy.
2) If you want to argue that it's sinking faster because of the fat trimming Elop issued then you'd have to show that they canned profitable ares of their business. I don't think that is possible.
1) When Elop came, Nokia was still having increasing sales numbers (as the market was growing, they were only losing share, which was only natural, as their share was enormous and only due to a complete lack of competition before Apple appeared), only now they are really going down. Nokia was still making profits while feeding thousands more employees than today.
2) Palm and RIM have shown that you can develop an acceptable GUI within a year. If Nokia had invested a fraction of what they are losing now into stopping that Open Source Symbian madness and getting actual professionals to do it, they would be in a much better position today. Symbian had the most efficient baseband of any mobile OS, and Nokia had to pay nobody to use it. MeeGo was, out of the door, more feature complete than WP7 is today. The Ovi Store was only second to Apple. Nobody had more billing agreements for online purchases with carriers than Nokia, now carriers shun them, because they are in bed with the arch-enemy Skype.
Globally, now 92% of former Nokia smartphone users renewing their contracts choose a non-Nokia phone. That is the worst retention rate I have ever heard of, maybe the worst of any global company ever.
When you release a do-or-die product (the Lumia 800) in your home market (Europe) and MS has to give away free Xboxes to even achieve 2% market share... you are done and you did bet on the wrong Trojan horse. People do not carry millions of iOS and Android devices into the office because they love Windows. No need to proof anything here, it's glaringly obvious.
I've been using the iPhone since 2007, and gone through the last 3 iterations of it.
And to me... it's time Apple stop just rolling out a better camera, or video, or memory...
Dear Apple, how about a REALLY significant OS?
My point it, success, to me, is keeping Apple BACK from innovating.
I mean heck, when you sell THE BEST SELLING phone, what is there to motivate you to REALLY make it better?
The reason why people were SO disappointed with the 4s... it was an incremental upgrade at best from the 4. You can argue better camera or video or processor... but to users like me... was it worth the $199+ upgrade from a phone I bought 2 years ago that does essentially the same thing still?
If you disagree, then why does Apple tout Siri so much? Gimmick.
If anything you guys, you need to think bigger picture...
Microsoft and Nokia are rolling out a serious paradigm shift in mobile UI with live tile functions, not just more "widgets"...
A successful Nokia/Microsoft phone means Apple/Android developers will think "different" about their approach to phone OS/apps...
And not just keep riding the success wave... to mediocrity.
1) When Elop came, Nokia was still having increasing sales numbers (as the market was growing, they were only losing share, which was only natural, as their share was enormous and only due to a complete lack of competition before Apple appeared), only now they are really going down. Nokia was still making profits while feeding thousands more employees than today.
2) Palm and RIM have shown that you can develop an acceptable GUI within a year. If Nokia had invested a fraction of what they are losing now into stopping that Open Source Symbian madness and getting actual professionals to do it, they would be in a much better position today. Symbian had the most efficient baseband of any mobile OS, and Nokia had to pay nobody to use it. MeeGo was, out of the door, more feature complete than WP7 is today. The Ovi Store was only second to Apple. Nobody had more billing agreements for online purchases with carriers than Nokia, now carriers shun them, because they are in bed with the arch-enemy Skype.
Globally, now 92% of former Nokia smartphone users renewing their contracts choose a non-Nokia phone. That is the worst retention rate I have ever heard of, maybe the worst of any global company ever.
When you release a do-or-die product (the Lumia 800) in your home market (Europe) and MS has to give away free Xboxes to even achieve 2% market share... you are done and you did bet on the wrong Trojan horse. People do not carry millions of iOS and Android devices into the office because they love Windows. No need to proof anything here, it's glaringly obvious.
There is just so much wrong with your comments that I'll just address one part with a deadly blow.
Nokia quarterly profits drop 40 percent year-on-year
That's CEO Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo at the helm, almost a year before Elop signed on.
There is just so much wrong with your comments that I'll just address one part with a deadly blow.
Nokia quarterly profits drop 40 percent year-on-year
That's CEO Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo at the helm, almost a year before Elop signed on.
Where is the deadly blow here? You just confirmed what I said: They were still profitable. Now they are predicting 6 months of significant losses in a row, and no plan how to improve after these 6 months in sight. They have traded a lacking platform for no platform.
1) <...>
2) Palm and RIM have shown that you can develop an acceptable GUI within a year. If Nokia had invested a fraction of what they are losing now into stopping that Open Source Symbian madness and getting actual professionals to do it, they would be in a much better position today. Symbian had the most efficient baseband of any mobile OS, and Nokia had to pay nobody to use it. MeeGo was, out of the door, more feature complete than WP7 is today. The Ovi Store was only second to Apple. Nobody had more billing agreements for online purchases with carriers than Nokia, now carriers shun them, because they are in bed with the arch-enemy Skype.
<...>.
Indeed. It was a major mistake to reproduce the PC model, where, as it was said "one third of the profit goes to the chipmaker, and the other to Microsoft". Furthermore, mobile devices are such highly integrated equipments, that Apple's hardware&software integrated model is the only viable, as it enables the best hardware/software design choices trade-offs.
Where is the deadly blow here? You just confirmed what I said: They were still profitable. Now they are predicting 6 months of significant losses in a row, and no plan how to improve after these 6 months in sight. They have traded a lacking platform for no platform.
Forgive Solip. His brain has something fell of and never come back right since he had that chemotherapy. The same way Daniel Dilger is never himself again after the concussion from that motorcycle accident.
Hence X prefix. He is not who he was.
FWIW - I am going to ASSUME you guys are more than just fanboys... because none of the comments REALLY speak to how good/great the Nokia Lumia 800 and 900 phones actually are.
I've been using the iPhone since 2007, and gone through the last 3 iterations of it.
And to me... it's time Apple stop just rolling out a better camera, or video, or memory...
Dear Apple, how about a REALLY significant OS?
My point it, success, to me, is keeping Apple BACK from innovating.
I mean heck, when you sell THE BEST SELLING phone, what is there to motivate you to REALLY make it better?
The reason why people were SO disappointed with the 4s... it was an incremental upgrade at best from the 4. You can argue better camera or video or processor... but to users like me... was it worth the $199+ upgrade from a phone I bought 2 years ago that does essentially the same thing still?
If you disagree, then why does Apple tout Siri so much? Gimmick.
If anything you guys, you need to think bigger picture...
Microsoft and Nokia are rolling out a serious paradigm shift in mobile UI with live tile functions, not just more "widgets"...
A successful Nokia/Microsoft phone means Apple/Android developers will think "different" about their approach to phone OS/apps...
And not just keep riding the success wave... to mediocrity.
Sure. Apple's evil because they haven't found a way to install a fusion generator into the iPhone to provide free energy for all of your appliances. Or maybe they should build in a transporter.
What does it take to consider something a "really significant OS"? Isn't it enough that they've revolutionized the phone and now the tablet markets and the rest of the world is playing catch-up?
Apple is not going to promote change for the sake of change. If there's a better paradigm, I'm sure they'd consider it, but so far, no one has come up with one.
Where is the deadly blow here? You just confirmed what I said: They were still profitable. Now they are predicting 6 months of significant losses in a row, and no plan how to improve after these 6 months in sight. They have traded a lacking platform for no platform.
And the Titanic was mostly above the water when people were jumping ship.
So where is your prof that Elop is the one that sank Nokia?
<...>
Nokia estimates that it sold 12 million "smart devices" in the first quarter of 2012, along with 71 million mobile phones. Its gross margins on smart device sales are estimated to have been around 16 percent.
Nokia said it sold more than 2 million of its new Windows Phone-powered Lumia handsets in the first quarter of 2012.
<...>
[ View article on AppleInsider ][/URL]
How many different models to reach those figures ? This reminds me a personal experience, back to the time I was a consultant. My customer was a (large) company, present at that time in the mobile phones business (it is no longer). The executive guy representing my customer had been put under pressure to achieve the impossible goal of shrinking development schedules to a just few months, the basic reasoning behind this being that coming as early as possible on the market with a continuous flow of new models was the key to success.
That goal was not only impossible to achieve, but also a wrong one, as Apple demonstrated it.
This is where really good managers distinguish themselves from bad ones : setting the right goals, having the right perspective and vision ...
Forgive Solip. His brain has something fell of and never come back right since he had that chemotherapy. The same way Daniel Dilger is never himself again after the concussion from that motorcycle accident.
Hence X prefix. He is not who he was.
That's an interesting personal attack. Care to elaborate on my supposed chemotherapy or is this just some negative slant you have against those with cancer?
Elop was part of the MS deal that's currently destroying Nokia. He's a Microsoft man. Not sure you can say he sunk the ship, he just drilled another few holes in the hull.
And Nokia would have been fine using Symbian or Meego or buying or building yet another OS?
[...] Nokia's announcement on disappointing sales comes just as the company has begun offering a $100 credit on its $99 Lumia 900 flagship smartphone, due to a software bug affecting data connections. [...]
And why is it necessary to replace said phones instead of simply issuing a software and/or firmware update?
Could it be, I dunno, because Microsoft just doesn't have the infrastructure in place?
Microsoft strikes again. They've turned the Lumia 900 into the Blue Phone Of Death.
Forgive Solip. His brain has something fell of and never come back right since he had that chemotherapy. The same way Daniel Dilger is never himself again after the concussion from that motorcycle accident.
Hence X prefix. He is not who he was.
Well, everybody can have an own opinion. It is just defying any logic.
Looking at the profitability Samsung achieved with Android (not that I wanted one) and Nokia's proven ability to do better hardware at reasonable cost, it is 100% obvious that Nokia could still be profitable, if they went that route (they would still pay MS for patents, sure, but certainly less than for the full OS that nobody wants).
Looking at even RIM having an 4 times higher customer retention rate than Nokia (in smartphones) with an OS 7 that is really just a four year old 5.x with some lipstick on hardware that has not improved in a decade, it is 100% clear that people actively avoid the Windows (or MS) brand. Heck, HTC had some models where the Android and the WP7 hardware were almost identical, telcos were selling the WP7 variants for significantly less, because nobody wanted them, and still people chose Android. Everybody knowing people (at large) knows how much they must hate something to voluntarily pay more.
To call the WP7 decision by Nokia a right step is a severe form of denial. Sure, MS has deep pockets and may over the next 5 years buy some market share (maybe at least the roughly 8% globally Windows Mobile once had, which proves that a certain potentially addressable market of masochists exists)... just, Nokia does not have that time.
FWIW - I am going to ASSUME you guys are more than just fanboys... because none of the comments REALLY speak to how good/great the Nokia Lumia 800 and 900 phones actually are.
I've been using the iPhone since 2007, and gone through the last 3 iterations of it.
And to me... it's time Apple stop just rolling out a better camera, or video, or memory...
Dear Apple, how about a REALLY significant OS?
My point it, success, to me, is keeping Apple BACK from innovating.
I mean heck, when you sell THE BEST SELLING phone, what is there to motivate you to REALLY make it better?
The reason why people were SO disappointed with the 4s... it was an incremental upgrade at best from the 4. You can argue better camera or video or processor... but to users like me... was it worth the $199+ upgrade from a phone I bought 2 years ago that does essentially the same thing still?
If you disagree, then why does Apple tout Siri so much? Gimmick.
If anything you guys, you need to think bigger picture...
Microsoft and Nokia are rolling out a serious paradigm shift in mobile UI with live tile functions, not just more "widgets"...
A successful Nokia/Microsoft phone means Apple/Android developers will think "different" about their approach to phone OS/apps...
And not just keep riding the success wave... to mediocrity.
Nokia/Microsoft are just coping Apple and using an absolutely horrendously bad UI to do it. "live tiles" are a horrible UI construct. Astro-turf much?
Well, everybody can have an own opinion. It is just defying any logic.
Looking at the profitability Samsung achieved with Android (not that I wanted one) and Nokia's proven ability to do better hardware at reasonable cost, it is 100% obvious that Nokia could still be profitable, if they went that route (they would still pay MS for patents, sure, but certainly less than for the full OS that nobody wants).
Looking at even RIM having an 4 times higher customer retention rate than Nokia (in smartphones) with an OS 7 that is really just a four year old 5.x with some lipstick on hardware that has not improved in a decade, it is 100% clear that people actively avoid the Windows (or MS) brand. Heck, HTC had some models where the Android and the WP7 hardware were almost identical, telcos were selling the WP7 variants for significantly less, because nobody wanted them, and still people chose Android. Everybody knowing people (at large) knows how much they must hate something to voluntarily pay more.
To call the WP7 decision by Nokia a right step is a severe form of denial. Sure, MS has deep pockets and may over the next 5 years buy some market share (maybe at least the roughly 8% globally Windows Mobile once had, which proves that a certain potentially addressable market of masochists exists)... just, Nokia does not have that time.
totally agree with all your points. Nokia is dead now that they are just a Windows Phone clone maker. Android would have at least gave them some customers. that Microsoft money is going to run dry at some point.
Well, everybody can have an own opinion. It is just defying any logic.
Defying logic is to say that because Nokia was still making a profit before Elop signed on as CEO that Nokia would have continued to make a profit if he had not, despite the rapid drop YoY in profit.
You can't rationally defend this because there is nothing to suggest that Nokia was going to remain profitable. They had no viable products in the pipeline and no avenue to get themselves out of the hole they dug log before Elop was on board. The iCeberg (see what I did there?) had done its damage in 2007 and it was just a matter of time before the Nokianic sank below the water line.
This is why a new CEO was brought on but the change was going to happen over a very long period, not overnight. You can blame Elop all you want for Nokia's woes, and some of them might be true, but to say that Elop is responsible for Nokia not being profitable is bullshit, he was just the newly appointed captain when it happened.