Who wants a taller phone that has a different aspect ratio? If they're going to have a bigger screen, they'll keep the same aspect ratio IMO.
I agree.
It would be just barely possible to fit a 4" screen in the current enclosure if the screen was edge to edge.
That would counter the "too big to reach across" argument somewhat and is the only thing that makes sense to me if they are indeed going for a 4" screen.
I think Apple is going from selling a retina iPhone and a retina iPad to a range comprising a big top of the line retina iPhone (same res, same aspect ratio, just bigger) ...
Just being picky here, but if the resolution is the same and the phone is bigger then it would probably fail to be a "retina iPhone" by definition.
It only just barely makes the bar at the moment, if the screen was bigger you would have to have longer arms to put it back into the retina category, no?
You don't seem to know what you are talking about.
- Well-written apps should not be coded to one specific screen size.
- The processor is completely irrelevant
- The GPU is completely irrelevant
- RAM capacity is slightly more of an issue, but again a combination of the OS itself and well-written apps can work around it (you do know ocmputers page memory out to disk, don't you?)
The issues you're complaining about are the ones plaguing Android, not iOS. An increased screen size may impact a few games and possibly other full-screen apps, but any app developer worth his salary should not be taking any notice of the screen dimensions or aspect ratio.
When you have games like nova 3 and infinity blade, and you consider the improvements to multi-tasking that will no doubt come as technology and battery life increases, i highly doubt you can seriously say that the processor and the GPU are irrelevant.
I find this, and it's sister rumor, the 7" iPad, just won't die, apparently. The most frequent specious arguments for it are along the lines of:
* everyone else is doing it
* Apple is losing (some unquantified number of) sales by not doing it
* the current size is too small|big for purpose x
* one size isn't right for everyone (whereas some other particular size apparently is right for, again, some unquantified number of people)
None of these are compelling reasons for Apple to produce the rumored sized devices and there are numerous downsides for developers, consumers and Apple to producing devices with larger|smaller|different sized|proportioned screens. By their own testimony, Apple put a lot of effort into determining the optimal size for these devices before they ever released them. It doesn't seem to make any sense that they would just toss that all out the window simply because someone else made a device a different size or because a handful of people clamor for larger|smaller devices, especially given the facts that 3.5" phones and 9.7" tablets are outselling the competition at any other specific size points by very wide margins.
Just curious - if selling millions of units of a new device isn't a compelling argument, then what is?
You can, of course, argue that unless someone is holding a gun to Apple's head, NOTHING is a compelling argument for change. That isn't a very useful argument, though.
4" screen:
If Apple can do it without making the phone larger, why not? What downside is there? And there IS an upside.
7" iPad:
After the iPad, the top selling tablets on the market are all around 7". Clearly, the market is large. So what's the compelling reason NOT to do it?
I mean MY GOD. When Apple comes out with a 4 inch screen, you'll stop talking against it, and instead you'll be talking about how much of a genius Apple is for it. Oh and YES, going from 3.5 to 4 inches IS a big difference. Hell, I just went from 4 to 4.3 and I notice a difference.
Yes, the iPhone is selling at 3.5 just fine, but lots of people have said they would like bigger screens, so it will just sell EVEN BETTER. What's wrong with that?
:facepalm:
I notice that you couldn't refute anything I said. And where did I say that Apple wouldn't go to a 4" screen? I said that they wouldn't go to a 5.3" screen, but even you ought to be able to tell the difference.
3.5" to 4"? For most people, that's "well, that's nice, but it's not that big of a deal".
Explaining why no one buys it. Oh, wait, people buy iPhones more than any larger Android phone.
Quote:
That is 2 screen sizes, three resolutions, 6 processors, not sure how many diff GPUs, 2 varying RAM capacities (3 if they put a gig in the iphone 5).
Seems like the work for developers just keeps increasing.
Except no, the only devices for which developers have to develop are the ones that run the current version of iOS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity
3"
That's nonsense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
If Apple can do it without making the phone larger, why not? What downside is there?
The inability to use it with one hand.
Quote:
Clearly, the market is large
The iPad has over 7/10 of the market. The rest is full of MORE 10" devices, plus 7" ones. We don't know how big that market actually is, but it's pathetically small, and that's even taking into account shipped and "sold". Apparently only 5% of devices USED are anything but the iPad.
Yeah it seems like if they're ordering them now, there might not be time to really incorporate them in the next version, but we may have a pleasant surprise.
No one really knows what Apple will do but personally, I would prefer they keep the screen the same size but reduce the size of the phone itself. The current iPhone could easily shrink by a quarter inch in both width and height and keep the exact same screen (edge to edge).
Regardless of what happens, it kind of puzzles me that no one suggest this since this is precisely the way Apple usually operates. they decide on the minimum useable size for a component like a screen and a keyboard and then try to shrink the device around that. They've done it over and over again with multiple products.
Again, no one knows what they are thinking here but the probabilities and the odds lie with them *shrinking* the iPhone, not making it bigger.
Yep, I would say this scenario more probable. I made a photoshop of a shrunken device using the same size display a while back, and it looked pretty sleek.
You don't seem to know what you are talking about.
- Well-written apps should not be coded to one specific screen size.
- The processor is completely irrelevant
- The GPU is completely irrelevant
- RAM capacity is slightly more of an issue, but again a combination of the OS itself and well-written apps can work around it (you do know ocmputers page memory out to disk, don't you?)
The issues you're complaining about are the ones plaguing Android, not iOS. An increased screen size may impact a few games and possibly other full-screen apps, but any app developer worth his salary should not be taking any notice of the screen dimensions or aspect ratio.
"- Well-written apps should not be coded to one specific screen size."
If the pixels are all the same (or an integral multiple), it really doesn't matter.
"- RAM capacity is slightly more of an issue, but again a combination of the OS itself and well-written apps can work around it (you do know ocmputers page memory out to disk, don't you?)"
Unless I am mistaken, iOS swaps entire applications to and from flash but I don't believe there is any capability in iOS to extend virtual RAM size for a given application using paging. Of course, it's been a couple of years since I looked at this so this could be obsolete info by now. However, I thought there was a hard limit with respect to RAM availability for a given application.
I really don't see the number of pixels changing for the active screen area. However, I could see Apple dropping the home button and putting a touch screen in that area to handle the home button's chores (and possibly adding other functions in that area of the screen).
Just curious - if selling millions of units of a new device isn't a compelling argument, then what is?
You can, of course, argue that unless someone is holding a gun to Apple's head, NOTHING is a compelling argument for change. That isn't a very useful argument, though.
4" screen:
If Apple can do it without making the phone larger, why not? What downside is there? And there IS an upside.
7" iPad:
After the iPad, the top selling tablets on the market are all around 7". Clearly, the market is large. So what's the compelling reason NOT to do it?
I notice that you couldn't refute anything I said. And where did I say that Apple wouldn't go to a 4" screen? I said that they wouldn't go to a 5.3" screen, but even you ought to be able to tell the difference.
3.5" to 4"? For most people, that's "well, that's nice, but it's not that big of a deal".
I agree, time for Ferrari, Porsche, and BMW to realize there is no compelling reason not to start competing with KIA. They can sell millions more units, and there isn't a compelling argument for them not to. Clearly the market for non-luxury brands is immense, so what's the compelling reason NOT to do it?
Those companies don't care what the competition is up to. They do what they think best, and so does Apple. I doubt anyone mentions or cares about what happens at Samsung and Google. They are asking themselves what more they can do to improve their products.
Yep, I would say this scenario more probable. I made a photoshop of a shrunken device using the same size display a while back, and it looked pretty sleek.
There comes a point where a device can be too small. It's not automatically a good thing for a device to become so small that really it's meant for a species other than humans. The last time I checked, humans made up the bulk of Apple's customer base. Up to a certain point, it's not a bad thing that a device is substantial enough to be more enjoyable to use, not less. Aesthetics are but a small piece of this puzzle.
If Apple can do it without making the phone larger, why not? What downside is there? And there IS an upside.
7" iPad:
After the iPad, the top selling tablets on the market are all around 7". Clearly, the market is large. So what's the compelling reason NOT to do it?
The downside is fragmentation of the platform, which is Android's Achilles' heel. Such a change would require iOS developers to re-write their apps for the new aspect ratio and double the work required to maintain those apps. Aside from this, a larger screen doesn't make much sense ergonomically on a phone. The barely perceptible benefits are outweighed by reduced portability and the inability to operate single-handed. I saw a co-worker answering a phone call on a Galaxy Note and it looked ridiculous, like he was holding a small notepad against his face.
The only way Apple will fiddle with the iPhone's or iPad's display size is if they can do it without fragmenting the platform, as they did with the Retina displays requiring a simple 2X resolution bump. I could see Apple releasing a smaller iPad if they came up with a similar solution that avoided the fragmentation issue, especially if they could leverage the availability of a low priced display that could qualify as "Retina".
If Apple can do it without making the phone larger, why not? What downside is there? And there IS an upside.
Downsides:
Either a lower screen density
New resolution to support for developers and increased device fragmentation
Quote:
7" iPad:
After the iPad, the top selling tablets on the market are all around 7". Clearly, the market is large. So what's the compelling reason NOT to do it?
I notice that you couldn't refute anything I said. And where did I say that Apple wouldn't go to a 4" screen? I said that they wouldn't go to a 5.3" screen, but even you ought to be able to tell the difference.
3.5" to 4"? For most people, that's "well, that's nice, but it's not that big of a deal".
Downsides
iPad UI means some, perhaps many, iPad apps will be too crowded (meaning too many touch UIs in too close proximity leading to false hits).
Not saying they wont do either but there are always some tradeoffs.
I prefer lower screen density to a new resolution. In which case I would simply make a 5" iPod Touch and leave the phone alone.
There comes a point where a device can be too small. It's not automatically a good thing for a device to become so small that really it's meant for a species other than humans. The last time I checked, humans made up the bulk of Apple's customer base. Up to a certain point, it's not a bad thing that a device is substantial enough to be more enjoyable to use, not less. Aesthetics are but a small piece of this puzzle.
Two points:
There are much smaller phones than a slightly trimmed iPhone 4S and these are still very usable.
Many folks add a case which makes the iPhone bigger. A smaller iPhone with a case probably is very close in size to a naked iPhone 4S.
I'd like a smaller iPhone with reduced bezel even if it pretty much means I have to buy new 3rd party docks pretty much across the board.
The downside is fragmentation of the platform, which is Android's Achilles' heel. Such a change would require iOS developers to re-write their apps for the new aspect ratio and double the work required to maintain those apps. Aside from this, a larger screen doesn't make much sense ergonomically on a phone. The barely perceptible benefits are outweighed by reduced portability and the inability to operate single-handed. I saw a co-worker answering a phone call on a Galaxy Note and it looked ridiculous, like he was holding a small notepad against his face.
{Referring to hypothetical 4" iPhone} Who says that they'd need a new aspect ratio? Why not keep the current resolution and aspect ratio? Sure, the pixel density would be a few percent lower, but few, if any, would notice it.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
Who wants a taller phone that has a different aspect ratio? If they're going to have a bigger screen, they'll keep the same aspect ratio IMO.I agree.
It would be just barely possible to fit a 4" screen in the current enclosure if the screen was edge to edge.
That would counter the "too big to reach across" argument somewhat and is the only thing that makes sense to me if they are indeed going for a 4" screen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamescoulee
I think Apple is going from selling a retina iPhone and a retina iPad to a range comprising a big top of the line retina iPhone (same res, same aspect ratio, just bigger) ...
Just being picky here, but if the resolution is the same and the phone is bigger then it would probably fail to be a "retina iPhone" by definition.
It only just barely makes the bar at the moment, if the screen was bigger you would have to have longer arms to put it back into the retina category, no?
And the highly reliable source cited by the WSJ article?
"...people familiar with the situation..."
Clickbait journalism at its finest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by knightlie
You don't seem to know what you are talking about.
- Well-written apps should not be coded to one specific screen size.
- The processor is completely irrelevant
- The GPU is completely irrelevant
- RAM capacity is slightly more of an issue, but again a combination of the OS itself and well-written apps can work around it (you do know ocmputers page memory out to disk, don't you?)
The issues you're complaining about are the ones plaguing Android, not iOS. An increased screen size may impact a few games and possibly other full-screen apps, but any app developer worth his salary should not be taking any notice of the screen dimensions or aspect ratio.
When you have games like nova 3 and infinity blade, and you consider the improvements to multi-tasking that will no doubt come as technology and battery life increases, i highly doubt you can seriously say that the processor and the GPU are irrelevant.
Just curious - if selling millions of units of a new device isn't a compelling argument, then what is?
You can, of course, argue that unless someone is holding a gun to Apple's head, NOTHING is a compelling argument for change. That isn't a very useful argument, though.
4" screen:
If Apple can do it without making the phone larger, why not? What downside is there? And there IS an upside.
7" iPad:
After the iPad, the top selling tablets on the market are all around 7". Clearly, the market is large. So what's the compelling reason NOT to do it?
I notice that you couldn't refute anything I said. And where did I say that Apple wouldn't go to a 4" screen? I said that they wouldn't go to a 5.3" screen, but even you ought to be able to tell the difference.
3.5" to 4"? For most people, that's "well, that's nice, but it's not that big of a deal".
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3
The current 3.5" screen is WAAAYYY too tiny
Explaining why no one buys it. Oh, wait, people buy iPhones more than any larger Android phone.
Quote:
That is 2 screen sizes, three resolutions, 6 processors, not sure how many diff GPUs, 2 varying RAM capacities (3 if they put a gig in the iphone 5).
Seems like the work for developers just keeps increasing.
Except no, the only devices for which developers have to develop are the ones that run the current version of iOS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity
3"
That's nonsense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
If Apple can do it without making the phone larger, why not? What downside is there?
The inability to use it with one hand.
Quote:
Clearly, the market is large
The iPad has over 7/10 of the market. The rest is full of MORE 10" devices, plus 7" ones. We don't know how big that market actually is, but it's pathetically small, and that's even taking into account shipped and "sold". Apparently only 5% of devices USED are anything but the iPad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster
Yeah it seems like if they're ordering them now, there might not be time to really incorporate them in the next version, but we may have a pleasant surprise.
I hope so.
Quote:
That's nonsense.
I didn't say it as fact. Get off your horse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity
I didn't say it as fact.
I didn't say you did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
No one really knows what Apple will do but personally, I would prefer they keep the screen the same size but reduce the size of the phone itself. The current iPhone could easily shrink by a quarter inch in both width and height and keep the exact same screen (edge to edge).
Regardless of what happens, it kind of puzzles me that no one suggest this since this is precisely the way Apple usually operates. they decide on the minimum useable size for a component like a screen and a keyboard and then try to shrink the device around that. They've done it over and over again with multiple products.
Again, no one knows what they are thinking here but the probabilities and the odds lie with them *shrinking* the iPhone, not making it bigger.
Yep, I would say this scenario more probable. I made a photoshop of a shrunken device using the same size display a while back, and it looked pretty sleek.
Quote:
Originally Posted by knightlie
You don't seem to know what you are talking about.
- Well-written apps should not be coded to one specific screen size.
- The processor is completely irrelevant
- The GPU is completely irrelevant
- RAM capacity is slightly more of an issue, but again a combination of the OS itself and well-written apps can work around it (you do know ocmputers page memory out to disk, don't you?)
The issues you're complaining about are the ones plaguing Android, not iOS. An increased screen size may impact a few games and possibly other full-screen apps, but any app developer worth his salary should not be taking any notice of the screen dimensions or aspect ratio.
"- Well-written apps should not be coded to one specific screen size."
If the pixels are all the same (or an integral multiple), it really doesn't matter.
"- RAM capacity is slightly more of an issue, but again a combination of the OS itself and well-written apps can work around it (you do know ocmputers page memory out to disk, don't you?)"
Unless I am mistaken, iOS swaps entire applications to and from flash but I don't believe there is any capability in iOS to extend virtual RAM size for a given application using paging. Of course, it's been a couple of years since I looked at this so this could be obsolete info by now. However, I thought there was a hard limit with respect to RAM availability for a given application.
I really don't see the number of pixels changing for the active screen area. However, I could see Apple dropping the home button and putting a touch screen in that area to handle the home button's chores (and possibly adding other functions in that area of the screen).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
I didn't say you did.
It's a shame you have let the position of 'Global Moderator' go to your head recently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity
It's a shame you have let the position of 'Global Moderator' go to your head recently.
And now I have no clue what you're on about.
Sure hope they don't go to 5 rows (+ dock).
As I swipe page to page to page, I am able to visually "scan";
View top 2 rows / bottom 2 rows. Next page
View top 2 rows / bottom 2 rows. Next page
View top 2 rows / bottom 2 rows. Next page
If the rows get broken into 3 rows + 2 rows it's visually fatiguing. I would rather have the larger screen utilize larger icons instead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Just curious - if selling millions of units of a new device isn't a compelling argument, then what is?
You can, of course, argue that unless someone is holding a gun to Apple's head, NOTHING is a compelling argument for change. That isn't a very useful argument, though.
4" screen:
If Apple can do it without making the phone larger, why not? What downside is there? And there IS an upside.
7" iPad:
After the iPad, the top selling tablets on the market are all around 7". Clearly, the market is large. So what's the compelling reason NOT to do it?
I notice that you couldn't refute anything I said. And where did I say that Apple wouldn't go to a 4" screen? I said that they wouldn't go to a 5.3" screen, but even you ought to be able to tell the difference.
3.5" to 4"? For most people, that's "well, that's nice, but it's not that big of a deal".
I agree, time for Ferrari, Porsche, and BMW to realize there is no compelling reason not to start competing with KIA. They can sell millions more units, and there isn't a compelling argument for them not to. Clearly the market for non-luxury brands is immense, so what's the compelling reason NOT to do it?
Those companies don't care what the competition is up to. They do what they think best, and so does Apple. I doubt anyone mentions or cares about what happens at Samsung and Google. They are asking themselves what more they can do to improve their products.
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity
Yep, I would say this scenario more probable. I made a photoshop of a shrunken device using the same size display a while back, and it looked pretty sleek.
There comes a point where a device can be too small. It's not automatically a good thing for a device to become so small that really it's meant for a species other than humans. The last time I checked, humans made up the bulk of Apple's customer base. Up to a certain point, it's not a bad thing that a device is substantial enough to be more enjoyable to use, not less. Aesthetics are but a small piece of this puzzle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
4" screen:
If Apple can do it without making the phone larger, why not? What downside is there? And there IS an upside.
7" iPad:
After the iPad, the top selling tablets on the market are all around 7". Clearly, the market is large. So what's the compelling reason NOT to do it?
The downside is fragmentation of the platform, which is Android's Achilles' heel. Such a change would require iOS developers to re-write their apps for the new aspect ratio and double the work required to maintain those apps. Aside from this, a larger screen doesn't make much sense ergonomically on a phone. The barely perceptible benefits are outweighed by reduced portability and the inability to operate single-handed. I saw a co-worker answering a phone call on a Galaxy Note and it looked ridiculous, like he was holding a small notepad against his face.
The only way Apple will fiddle with the iPhone's or iPad's display size is if they can do it without fragmenting the platform, as they did with the Retina displays requiring a simple 2X resolution bump. I could see Apple releasing a smaller iPad if they came up with a similar solution that avoided the fragmentation issue, especially if they could leverage the availability of a low priced display that could qualify as "Retina".
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
4" screen:
If Apple can do it without making the phone larger, why not? What downside is there? And there IS an upside.
Downsides:
Either a lower screen density
New resolution to support for developers and increased device fragmentation
Quote:
7" iPad:
After the iPad, the top selling tablets on the market are all around 7". Clearly, the market is large. So what's the compelling reason NOT to do it?
I notice that you couldn't refute anything I said. And where did I say that Apple wouldn't go to a 4" screen? I said that they wouldn't go to a 5.3" screen, but even you ought to be able to tell the difference.
3.5" to 4"? For most people, that's "well, that's nice, but it's not that big of a deal".
Downsides
iPad UI means some, perhaps many, iPad apps will be too crowded (meaning too many touch UIs in too close proximity leading to false hits).
Not saying they wont do either but there are always some tradeoffs.
I prefer lower screen density to a new resolution. In which case I would simply make a 5" iPod Touch and leave the phone alone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmissimo
There comes a point where a device can be too small. It's not automatically a good thing for a device to become so small that really it's meant for a species other than humans. The last time I checked, humans made up the bulk of Apple's customer base. Up to a certain point, it's not a bad thing that a device is substantial enough to be more enjoyable to use, not less. Aesthetics are but a small piece of this puzzle.
Two points:
There are much smaller phones than a slightly trimmed iPhone 4S and these are still very usable.
Many folks add a case which makes the iPhone bigger. A smaller iPhone with a case probably is very close in size to a naked iPhone 4S.
I'd like a smaller iPhone with reduced bezel even if it pretty much means I have to buy new 3rd party docks pretty much across the board.
{Referring to hypothetical 4" iPhone} Who says that they'd need a new aspect ratio? Why not keep the current resolution and aspect ratio? Sure, the pixel density would be a few percent lower, but few, if any, would notice it.