Explaining why no one buys it. Oh, wait, people buy iPhones more than any larger Android phone.
Well that's a silly argument. You know if Apple released a 4" iPhone, everyone would go out and buy one immediately. People keep buying the iPhone despite the 3.5" screen because it's the only option if you are an iOS person.
But they won't make a 4" iPhone because HTC and Samsung have patented mobile phone screens of 4.0 inches and larger. Maybe they will have to make a 3.9" screen.
Well that's a silly argument. You know if Apple released a 4" iPhone, everyone would go out and buy one immediately. People keep buying the iPhone despite the 3.5" screen because it's the only option if you are an iOS person.
But we don't know that and CAN'T know that. Which brings us to the big question:
Do more people buy the "small" iPhone that they don't like "because it's Apple" than would buy a "large" iPhone that they don't like "because it's Apple"?
That's really the only question that needs to be asked about screen/case size changes.
Quote:
But they won't make a 4" iPhone because HTC and Samsung have patented mobile phone screens of 4.0 inches and larger. Maybe they will have to make a 3.9" screen.
You know, that would be a very interesting way to protest their dislike of the current patent system, seeing as they've stolen so many of Apple's designs and claim them FRAND or inpatentable. Which isn't a word, but there doesn't seem to be one, strangely enough.
But we don't know that and CAN'T know that. Which brings us to the big question:
Do more people buy the "small" iPhone that they don't like "because it's Apple" than would buy a "large" iPhone that they don't like "because it's Apple"?
That's really the only question that needs to be asked about screen/case size changes.
There's one more question:
How many people would at least consider switching from Android to iPhone if Apple made a larger-screen iPhone?
Just as there were a fair number of people who wanted an iPhone but refused to get one until it was available on Verizon, there are probably at least a few people out there who would be interested in an iPhone if only the screen were a bit bigger. Probably a lot actually. It's obvious that larger screens sell so why not capitalize on it? A 4" would actually be small by today's standards, and with some clever design (specifically, reducing the size of the top and bottom bezels) it would barely be any larger than the current model.
Just curious - if selling millions of units of a new device isn't a compelling argument, then what is?
You can, of course, argue that unless someone is holding a gun to Apple's head, NOTHING is a compelling argument for change. That isn't a very useful argument, though.
4" screen:
If Apple can do it without making the phone larger, why not? What downside is there? And there IS an upside.
7" iPad:
After the iPad, the top selling tablets on the market are all around 7". Clearly, the market is large. So what's the compelling reason NOT to do it?
I notice that you couldn't refute anything I said. And where did I say that Apple wouldn't go to a 4" screen? I said that they wouldn't go to a 5.3" screen, but even you ought to be able to tell the difference.
3.5" to 4"? For most people, that's "well, that's nice, but it's not that big of a deal".
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
{Referring to hypothetical 4" iPhone} Who says that they'd need a new aspect ratio? Why not keep the current resolution and aspect ratio? Sure, the pixel density would be a few percent lower, but few, if any, would notice it.
Has anyone mocked up what something like that might look like and what the overall dimensions might be? Every time I see a mock-up it looks like the one in this article - an elongated iPhone with a different aspect ratio, or something uncomfortably large and wide like the Samsung Note. I do agree that if they figured out a way to make the screen larger, while keeping the phone small enough to operate with one hand, and while avoiding a change in aspect ratio, then that might result in a viable product. I'm just not convinced that the resulting design change would justify the effort.
Meanwhile, for those who don't get Android's display fragmentation problem, here's a neat illustration:
Spectacular illustration. I'll have to remember that one.
And that's only the tip of the iceberg. That's screen size. I realize it's a different argument, but when you have to take into account the rest of the device's specs (processor capabilities, RAM, etc.)…
Just being picky here, but if the resolution is the same and the phone is bigger then it would probably fail to be a "retina iPhone" by definition.
It only just barely makes the bar at the moment, if the screen was bigger you would have to have longer arms to put it back into the retina category, no?
Only if you use your current iPhone with your arms stretched
They'd say that, being it slightly bigger, you'll use it a bit further away and you'll still not be able to discern the individual pixels, for sure.
It's a bit of an argument, but that detail won't nudge Apple's commercial strategy at all, if this is what they want to do (and I'm not saying it is).
I think they'd prefer to decrease the dpi slightly than force developers to rework their apps for a new display resolution again.
Obviously this was just a quick and dirty mockup someone made in their spare time, but you can see a 4" screen can almost fit into the same size body by just making the bezel smaller. Still tons of room top and bottom, but the phone would almost certainly need to be made a bit wider. Still, I think that's a worthwhile tradeoff.
Obviously this was just a quick and dirty mockup someone made in their spare time, but you can see a 4" screen can almost fit into the same size body by just making the bezel smaller. Still tons of room top and bottom, but the phone would almost certainly need to be made a bit wider. Still, I think that's a worthwhile tradeoff.
That's a little clumsy looking. I wouldn't be surprised if they were to trim it back a little bit (3.8-3.9") to make it fit a little better. If the phone only grows by 1/8" or so, it won't be bad, but if they go much beyond that, they might start losing people.
Although that begs the question - who would they lose customers to? Since all the android fans tell us that no one else makes a smartphone this small, they might not lose many customers, after all.
That's a little clumsy looking. I wouldn't be surprised if they were to trim it back a little bit (3.8-3.9") to make it fit a little better. If the phone only grows by 1/8" or so, it won't be bad, but if they go much beyond that, they might start losing people.
Although that begs the question - who would they lose customers to? Since all the android fans tell us that no one else makes a smartphone this small, they might not lose many customers, after all.
Of course it's clumsy looking, it's a mockup someone did in probably 5 minutes. Personally I find the current iPhone's gigantic top and bottom bezels to be pretty clumsy looking on their own.
I don't think a significant number of people would actually get rid of their iPhones just because its successor has a too-large screen. Like I said before, average customers will probably prefer it and anyone who's a hardcore enough Apple fan will stick to the iPhone in any case (not before a bit of whining of course).
As for smaller competing phones, there are a few other smallish phones available but they're mostly crummy low end devices like the HTC Wildfire. Again, Apple risks losing more customers if they keep the 3.5" screen than if they pump the size up a bit. Because even a 4" iPhone will be smaller than the competition so people who like the smaller size will still get it with the iPhone, and people who were waiting for the screen to get bigger are happy too.
Obviously this was just a quick and dirty mockup someone made in their spare time, but you can see a 4" screen can almost fit into the same size body by just making the bezel smaller. Still tons of room top and bottom, but the phone would almost certainly need to be made a bit wider. Still, I think that's a worthwhile tradeoff.
I wonder if extending the display to the very edge like this would lead to unintentional touch screen interaction while holding the phone... unless the touch sensitive area were given a nonactive margin.
That's a little clumsy looking. I wouldn't be surprised if they were to trim it back a little bit (3.8-3.9") to make it fit a little better. If the phone only grows by 1/8" or so, it won't be bad, but if they go much beyond that, they might start losing people.
Although that begs the question - who would they lose customers to? Since all the android fans tell us that no one else makes a smartphone this small, they might not lose many customers, after all.
I have to admit, even if they made the phone bigger and even if I didn't like it, there's no chance in hell this would drive me to a competitor's product. But Apple would never make a change like this just to compete with other phones' spec sheet - they'd have to be convinced it was just the right thing to do from a design standpoint.
I agree, hence my skepticism. I recall reading that the wide display margins on the iPad were a key design feature to provide users with a natural resting area for their thumbs. I suspect this is a similarly important consideration on a phone.
C'mon apple, why are you doing this! You know this goes against Steve Jobbs explicit wishes of giving users what he wants and not what they want.
[sarcasm]On a positive note, thank god for the smaller pin connector and micro sim. I was worried they wouldn't have room for a 4 inch screen if they kept those old space hogging technologies. [/sarcasm]
You don't seem to know what you are talking about.
- Well-written apps should not be coded to one specific screen size.
- The processor is completely irrelevant
- The GPU is completely irrelevant
- RAM capacity is slightly more of an issue, but again a combination of the OS itself and well-written apps can work around it (you do know ocmputers page memory out to disk, don't you?)
The issues you're complaining about are the ones plaguing Android, not iOS. An increased screen size may impact a few games and possibly other full-screen apps, but any app developer worth his salary should not be taking any notice of the screen dimensions or aspect ratio.
One of the biggest differences between an iOS app and an Android app is the fact that the iOS app was written for one specific screen size. I receive graphic design specifications that define every element and every space between elements in pixels. If the app doesn't perfectly reproduce the approved design then a bug is logged against the project. I've seen apps delayed because something was off by 1 pixel.
Over on the Android side such "perfection" is impossible because your target market is running 13 different screen sizes and each of the popular sizes is a different aspect ratio. Sure there are times when adding a little white space or changing a font size is no big deal, but there are other times when a different aspect ratio destroys the relationship between one element and another.
If Apple sticks with 3.5" the phone will sell very well, but a segment of the market will continue to avoid the iPhone.
If Apple moves to 4" or larger they will gain new customers, but may lose some existing ones who don't want a larger phone.
If Apple goes with two phones, one 3.5" and one larger one, they will definitely see a net gain in customers, but will incur increased costs that may or may not be made up by the additional sales. I think the market is big enough and Apple rich enough to try selling two different sizes of iPhone, but Tim Cook et al may disagree.
- If the larger phone uses the same screen resolution people who have trouble reading small text will rejoice, but others will scream that the larger phone doesn't offer any additional screen real estate. Developers won't have to do anything to support both.
- If the larger phone uses a new screen resolution then many will celebrate, but developers and those who have trouble with small text will grumble.
I think Apple's solution for those who struggle to read fine print is Siri. I don't think that's an acceptable solution, but I may be in the minority on that one.
If Apple sticks with 3.5" the phone will sell very well, but a segment of the market will continue to avoid the iPhone.
If Apple moves to 4" or larger they will gain new customers, but may lose some existing ones who don't want a larger phone.
Who are they going to switch to? All the fandroid trolls here insist that EVERYONE's screens are larger than 4" already. So what would an iPhone customer buy?
Not to mention, of course, that if Apple manages to increase the screen size without significantly increasing the external dimensions of the phone, I can't see any rational reason why people would jump ship.
If Apple goes with two phones, one 3.5" and one larger one, they will definitely see a net gain in customers, but will incur increased costs that may or may not be made up by the additional sales. I think the market is big enough and Apple rich enough to try selling two different sizes of iPhone, but Tim Cook et al may disagree.
- If the larger phone uses the same screen resolution people who have trouble reading small text will rejoice, but others will scream that the larger phone doesn't offer any additional screen real estate. Developers won't have to do anything to support both.
- If the larger phone uses a new screen resolution then many will celebrate, but developers and those who have trouble with small text will grumble.
I think Apple's solution for those who struggle to read fine print is Siri. I don't think that's an acceptable solution, but I may be in the minority on that one.
Unlikely. There's not enough difference between 3.5" and 4" to justify a different product line. And I don't see Apple going significantly larger than 4" because phones that big are clunky.
Unfortunately, anybody that uses a bumper or similar case will curse a screen that goes so close to the edge. I seriously doubt that apple would make such a mistake from a use ability pov. It can sometimes be difficult to highlight text close to the screen edge with the current border.
I suspect a taller screen is most likely.... Existing apps just display pixel for pixel with black bars top and bottom, iOS 6 could allow new ui functionality to take advantage of extra space. - one area that would really benefit is messages app - have you ever noticed when replying to a message, with the keyboard shown, as your reply grows, it pushes the message you are replying to off the screen to the extent that eventually you can no longer scroll the original message to check you have replied to all the points made in it. I often find myself sending a second reply because I have missed something.
Unfortunately, anybody that uses a bumper or similar case will curse a screen that goes so close to the edge. I seriously doubt that apple would make such a mistake from a use ability pov. It can sometimes be difficult to highlight text close to the screen edge with the current border.
I suspect a taller screen is most likely.... Existing apps just display pixel for pixel with black bars top and bottom, iOS 6 could allow new ui functionality to take advantage of extra space. - one area that would really benefit is messages app - have you ever noticed when replying to a message, with the keyboard shown, as your reply grows, it pushes the message you are replying to off the screen to the extent that eventually you can no longer scroll the original message to check you have replied to all the points made in it. I often find myself sending a second reply because I have missed something.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Explaining why no one buys it. Oh, wait, people buy iPhones more than any larger Android phone.
Well that's a silly argument. You know if Apple released a 4" iPhone, everyone would go out and buy one immediately. People keep buying the iPhone despite the 3.5" screen because it's the only option if you are an iOS person.
But they won't make a 4" iPhone because HTC and Samsung have patented mobile phone screens of 4.0 inches and larger. Maybe they will have to make a 3.9" screen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luca
Well that's a silly argument. You know if Apple released a 4" iPhone, everyone would go out and buy one immediately. People keep buying the iPhone despite the 3.5" screen because it's the only option if you are an iOS person.
But we don't know that and CAN'T know that. Which brings us to the big question:
Do more people buy the "small" iPhone that they don't like "because it's Apple" than would buy a "large" iPhone that they don't like "because it's Apple"?
That's really the only question that needs to be asked about screen/case size changes.
Quote:
But they won't make a 4" iPhone because HTC and Samsung have patented mobile phone screens of 4.0 inches and larger. Maybe they will have to make a 3.9" screen.
You know, that would be a very interesting way to protest their dislike of the current patent system, seeing as they've stolen so many of Apple's designs and claim them FRAND or inpatentable. Which isn't a word, but there doesn't seem to be one, strangely enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
But we don't know that and CAN'T know that. Which brings us to the big question:
Do more people buy the "small" iPhone that they don't like "because it's Apple" than would buy a "large" iPhone that they don't like "because it's Apple"?
That's really the only question that needs to be asked about screen/case size changes.
There's one more question:
How many people would at least consider switching from Android to iPhone if Apple made a larger-screen iPhone?
Just as there were a fair number of people who wanted an iPhone but refused to get one until it was available on Verizon, there are probably at least a few people out there who would be interested in an iPhone if only the screen were a bit bigger. Probably a lot actually. It's obvious that larger screens sell so why not capitalize on it? A 4" would actually be small by today's standards, and with some clever design (specifically, reducing the size of the top and bottom bezels) it would barely be any larger than the current model.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Just curious - if selling millions of units of a new device isn't a compelling argument, then what is?
You can, of course, argue that unless someone is holding a gun to Apple's head, NOTHING is a compelling argument for change. That isn't a very useful argument, though.
4" screen:
If Apple can do it without making the phone larger, why not? What downside is there? And there IS an upside.
7" iPad:
After the iPad, the top selling tablets on the market are all around 7". Clearly, the market is large. So what's the compelling reason NOT to do it?
I notice that you couldn't refute anything I said. And where did I say that Apple wouldn't go to a 4" screen? I said that they wouldn't go to a 5.3" screen, but even you ought to be able to tell the difference.
3.5" to 4"? For most people, that's "well, that's nice, but it's not that big of a deal".
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
{Referring to hypothetical 4" iPhone} Who says that they'd need a new aspect ratio? Why not keep the current resolution and aspect ratio? Sure, the pixel density would be a few percent lower, but few, if any, would notice it.
Has anyone mocked up what something like that might look like and what the overall dimensions might be? Every time I see a mock-up it looks like the one in this article - an elongated iPhone with a different aspect ratio, or something uncomfortably large and wide like the Samsung Note. I do agree that if they figured out a way to make the screen larger, while keeping the phone small enough to operate with one hand, and while avoiding a change in aspect ratio, then that might result in a viable product. I'm just not convinced that the resulting design change would justify the effort.
Meanwhile, for those who don't get Android's display fragmentation problem, here's a neat illustration:
Apple iOS
Android
Source: http://opensignalmaps.com/reports/fragmentation.php
Spectacular illustration. I'll have to remember that one.
And that's only the tip of the iceberg. That's screen size. I realize it's a different argument, but when you have to take into account the rest of the device's specs (processor capabilities, RAM, etc.)…
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
Just being picky here, but if the resolution is the same and the phone is bigger then it would probably fail to be a "retina iPhone" by definition.
It only just barely makes the bar at the moment, if the screen was bigger you would have to have longer arms to put it back into the retina category, no?
Only if you use your current iPhone with your arms stretched
They'd say that, being it slightly bigger, you'll use it a bit further away and you'll still not be able to discern the individual pixels, for sure.
It's a bit of an argument, but that detail won't nudge Apple's commercial strategy at all, if this is what they want to do (and I'm not saying it is).
I think they'd prefer to decrease the dpi slightly than force developers to rework their apps for a new display resolution again.
Obviously this was just a quick and dirty mockup someone made in their spare time, but you can see a 4" screen can almost fit into the same size body by just making the bezel smaller. Still tons of room top and bottom, but the phone would almost certainly need to be made a bit wider. Still, I think that's a worthwhile tradeoff.
That's a little clumsy looking. I wouldn't be surprised if they were to trim it back a little bit (3.8-3.9") to make it fit a little better. If the phone only grows by 1/8" or so, it won't be bad, but if they go much beyond that, they might start losing people.
Although that begs the question - who would they lose customers to? Since all the android fans tell us that no one else makes a smartphone this small, they might not lose many customers, after all.
I don't think a significant number of people would actually get rid of their iPhones just because its successor has a too-large screen. Like I said before, average customers will probably prefer it and anyone who's a hardcore enough Apple fan will stick to the iPhone in any case (not before a bit of whining of course).
As for smaller competing phones, there are a few other smallish phones available but they're mostly crummy low end devices like the HTC Wildfire. Again, Apple risks losing more customers if they keep the 3.5" screen than if they pump the size up a bit. Because even a 4" iPhone will be smaller than the competition so people who like the smaller size will still get it with the iPhone, and people who were waiting for the screen to get bigger are happy too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luca
Obviously this was just a quick and dirty mockup someone made in their spare time, but you can see a 4" screen can almost fit into the same size body by just making the bezel smaller. Still tons of room top and bottom, but the phone would almost certainly need to be made a bit wider. Still, I think that's a worthwhile tradeoff.
I wonder if extending the display to the very edge like this would lead to unintentional touch screen interaction while holding the phone... unless the touch sensitive area were given a nonactive margin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by freediverx
…unless the touch sensitive area were given a nonactive margin.
But that causes far more problems than it solves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
That's a little clumsy looking. I wouldn't be surprised if they were to trim it back a little bit (3.8-3.9") to make it fit a little better. If the phone only grows by 1/8" or so, it won't be bad, but if they go much beyond that, they might start losing people.
Although that begs the question - who would they lose customers to? Since all the android fans tell us that no one else makes a smartphone this small, they might not lose many customers, after all.
I have to admit, even if they made the phone bigger and even if I didn't like it, there's no chance in hell this would drive me to a competitor's product. But Apple would never make a change like this just to compete with other phones' spec sheet - they'd have to be convinced it was just the right thing to do from a design standpoint.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
But that causes far more problems than it solves.
I agree, hence my skepticism. I recall reading that the wide display margins on the iPad were a key design feature to provide users with a natural resting area for their thumbs. I suspect this is a similarly important consideration on a phone.
4" iPhone? Hey, it's the all-new iPad Mini!
C'mon apple, why are you doing this! You know this goes against Steve Jobbs explicit wishes of giving users what he wants and not what they want.
[sarcasm]On a positive note, thank god for the smaller pin connector and micro sim. I was worried they wouldn't have room for a 4 inch screen if they kept those old space hogging technologies. [/sarcasm]
Quote:
Originally Posted by knightlie
You don't seem to know what you are talking about.
- Well-written apps should not be coded to one specific screen size.
- The processor is completely irrelevant
- The GPU is completely irrelevant
- RAM capacity is slightly more of an issue, but again a combination of the OS itself and well-written apps can work around it (you do know ocmputers page memory out to disk, don't you?)
The issues you're complaining about are the ones plaguing Android, not iOS. An increased screen size may impact a few games and possibly other full-screen apps, but any app developer worth his salary should not be taking any notice of the screen dimensions or aspect ratio.
One of the biggest differences between an iOS app and an Android app is the fact that the iOS app was written for one specific screen size. I receive graphic design specifications that define every element and every space between elements in pixels. If the app doesn't perfectly reproduce the approved design then a bug is logged against the project. I've seen apps delayed because something was off by 1 pixel.
Over on the Android side such "perfection" is impossible because your target market is running 13 different screen sizes and each of the popular sizes is a different aspect ratio. Sure there are times when adding a little white space or changing a font size is no big deal, but there are other times when a different aspect ratio destroys the relationship between one element and another.
If Apple sticks with 3.5" the phone will sell very well, but a segment of the market will continue to avoid the iPhone.
If Apple moves to 4" or larger they will gain new customers, but may lose some existing ones who don't want a larger phone.
If Apple goes with two phones, one 3.5" and one larger one, they will definitely see a net gain in customers, but will incur increased costs that may or may not be made up by the additional sales. I think the market is big enough and Apple rich enough to try selling two different sizes of iPhone, but Tim Cook et al may disagree.
- If the larger phone uses the same screen resolution people who have trouble reading small text will rejoice, but others will scream that the larger phone doesn't offer any additional screen real estate. Developers won't have to do anything to support both.
- If the larger phone uses a new screen resolution then many will celebrate, but developers and those who have trouble with small text will grumble.
I think Apple's solution for those who struggle to read fine print is Siri. I don't think that's an acceptable solution, but I may be in the minority on that one.
Who are they going to switch to? All the fandroid trolls here insist that EVERYONE's screens are larger than 4" already. So what would an iPhone customer buy?
Not to mention, of course, that if Apple manages to increase the screen size without significantly increasing the external dimensions of the phone, I can't see any rational reason why people would jump ship.
Unlikely. There's not enough difference between 3.5" and 4" to justify a different product line. And I don't see Apple going significantly larger than 4" because phones that big are clunky.
I suspect a taller screen is most likely.... Existing apps just display pixel for pixel with black bars top and bottom, iOS 6 could allow new ui functionality to take advantage of extra space. - one area that would really benefit is messages app - have you ever noticed when replying to a message, with the keyboard shown, as your reply grows, it pushes the message you are replying to off the screen to the extent that eventually you can no longer scroll the original message to check you have replied to all the points made in it. I often find myself sending a second reply because I have missed something.
I suspect a taller screen is most likely.... Existing apps just display pixel for pixel with black bars top and bottom, iOS 6 could allow new ui functionality to take advantage of extra space. - one area that would really benefit is messages app - have you ever noticed when replying to a message, with the keyboard shown, as your reply grows, it pushes the message you are replying to off the screen to the extent that eventually you can no longer scroll the original message to check you have replied to all the points made in it. I often find myself sending a second reply because I have missed something.