4" screens for Apple's next iPhone will be built as soon as June

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  • Reply 61 of 118
    paulmjohnsonpaulmjohnson Posts: 1,380member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    What don't you trust about the current design? Not that I believe it'll stick around, but what's wrong with it that it needs a 'complete' redesign?



     


    I don't think there is anything "wrong" with it that requires a complete redesign, but the fact is, phones are seen as much as fashion icons as they are communications devices, and whether we like it or not, for Apple to remain a leading player, they need to take that into account.

  • Reply 62 of 118
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

    I don't think there is anything "wrong" with it that requires a complete redesign, but the fact is, phones are seen as much as fashion icons as they are communications devices, and whether we like it or not, for Apple to remain a leading player, they need to take that into account.


     


    I think the success of the iPhone 4S (and 3GS when it was new) proves that the number of people that demand their devices "look different from the last one so people know I have the newest one" is tiny if not nonexistent.


     


    While I don't deny seeing such comments on the forums, they're made by trolls. It's entirely possible you've been watching one too many Samsung commercials. image

  • Reply 63 of 118
    gazoobeegazoobee Posts: 3,754member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post



    Actually, they could make a 4" screen with the current aspect ratio with only an insignificant increase in phone size. Or, they could keep the phone at it's current size and get almost to 4" (probably a bit more than your 3.85"). But either way, we're talking about differences that are too small to be noticed by anyone but a few geeks with micrometers in their hands.


     


    Well, this is basically what I was arguing.  


    Slightly smaller than 4" (but close enough to satisfy the vague rumour), but no increase in iPhone size (to solve the "can't reach the other side of the phone with your thumb" conundrum). I just picked 3.85" as that would work out to almost exactly 300 dpi.  

  • Reply 64 of 118
    doh123doh123 Posts: 323member



    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sleepy3 View Post


    Face it, the iphone screen size will increase and everyone will say that's what they always wanted and deny any knowledge of saying 3.5" is the be all end all. Then Apple is gonna market the 4" screen like its the first ever 4" screen and its amazing and will change your life, and people will do like the iphone was the first to come out with a 4" screen.


     


    We've seen this play out before with siri, multi-tasking, 8MP cameras, etc


     


    Lets stop pretending like we don't know how this is gonna turn out.


     


    Lets just be happy that you will finally be able to read a web page without having to zoom in all the time, like other people can on their big screen phones.....unless of course you have super man eyes that is :)



     


    You do not sound blissful, but angry...?  Is the old saying of "Ignorance is bliss" really not true?


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by s4mb4 View Post


    i think the current size is perfect. bigger is not better. i hate those monster Samsung devices. its like carrying around a VCR tape in your pocket.



     


    4 might be ok.. but I seriously HATE all these giant phones these days... 4" might be ok, I'll have to wait and see.  Its like we worked harder and harder to make small phones smaller and smaller... finally they could even fit in a pocket.  Now with Smart Phones they are doing the opposite and making them bigger and bigger... 


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Sol77 View Post


     


    I don't intend to be confrontational, but none of this happened.  Why are you saying it did?  I have zero investment in promoting Apple products...but Apple never claimed to have the first voice recognition software, the first multi-tasking software, or the first 8mp camera.  I don't understand - why are you making this up?  You're writing as though you are emotionally involved and are trying to find someway to hurt people who like Apple products.  I'm sure Apple will find a way to put a positive spin on it...it's marketing, but what you wrote is just emotional nonsense, is it not?  Why so emotionally involved?



    Apple haters do this stuff everywhere.  Usually around 75% of the story is fabricated so there can be hints of truth in there and they can try to convince people things happen that never do.


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Pooch View Post


     

    i heard a rumour that detroit was building a three-wheeled car. i guess they never want me to own a car again. or are you just drumming up ai business?


    now your going to claim they were the first to do it!!!


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliant_Regal


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by gwmac View Post


    You sound almost as ridiculous as people that are opposed to same sex marriages by arguing if you allow that why stop there, next people will be marrying their pets. Can I borrow some of that straw you like to use for your argument since you seem to have an abundance. 


     



    but its true... we started letting opposite sex couples get married and now same sex couples want to... there is already a history it keeps getting pushed further and further... we need to outlaw marriage now before all this gets even more out of hand!!!

  • Reply 65 of 118
    gazoobeegazoobee Posts: 3,754member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    No, the idea that Apple would update two phones at once. They didn't update the iPhone 3GS or the iPhone 4 when the iPhone 4S came out, as some rumors said.


     


    If they're moving to a two-size world, that's absolutely a different story, but I can't believe they'd do that.



     


    I thought they did.  I haven't seen any for sale, but didn't they make a sort of 'special edition' 8GB iPhone 4 for certain foreign markets at the same time the iPhone 4s came out?  They also did the CDMA phone and there is talk of a special one for China's networks.  It doesn't seem really true that they always stick to the same single design or that they don't revise older models for different market segments.  

  • Reply 66 of 118
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

    I thought they did.  I haven't seen any for sale, but didn't they make a sort of 'special edition' 8GB iPhone 4 for certain foreign markets at the same time the iPhone 4s came out?


     


    Oh, they did, didn't they? Yeah, they dropped the iPhone 4 to 8GB (everywhere, it seems) when the 4S came out, but that's not an update. They changed capacity, not specs, which is what the old rumor from last year said would happen, and which is being partially argued now.

  • Reply 67 of 118
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member


    How does a Jobs-less Apple artfully pitch a larger iPhone?  Steve could sell just about anything to anyone.  Phil Schiller....I'm not so sure.

     

  • Reply 68 of 118


    I've been traveling through Korea and China the past couple of weeks and virtually every non-iPhone (which is a whole lot more than iPhones) has a 4"-and-up screen. It doesn't seem to bother the people here at all. I see a lot of them use it just fine with one hand and Asians, generally speaking, are smaller people with smaller hands. I saw a lot of Galaxy Notes in Seoul and although it does look goofy, people use it as a phone just fine. They seem to have no problem putting it into their pockets either.


     


    Most people in densely populated cities like Seoul, Hong Kong, and Shanghai are in subways and buses to commute at least 2 hours per day. Then they walk around another 30 minutes to an hour. In a crowded subway train standing up, an iPad is too big and the iPhone screen is a bit too small for extended reading and web browsing. I live in LA and don't see a need for a large screen phone but if I was living in Seoul, I think I'd definitely prefer a large screen phone and perhaps even a 7" tablet.


     


    It all depends on the environment you're in. Apple is going to pay attention to the city dwellers who are glued to their phones while walking around the city or getting around on public transport. One can't compare LA or most of the US to cities like Seoul, Shanghai, Tokyo, Mumbai, etc. where the population densities are many times that of even New York. What works for them often won't work for you and vice versa. These people are going to want larger screen phones and a smaller tablet or even a 5" device like the Galaxy Note.


     


    I don't see why Apple shouldn't cater to these city dwellers in foreign countries when the international revenues are already over 60% and will probably get much higher in the years ahead as they expand in densely populated emerging markets like China, India, and Brazil. The great majority of these people don't drive their own cars. A lot of them won't even have PCs and will rely on the phone as their main device.


     


    The rest of the world isn't like America. America's population makes up less than 5% of that of the world's. Apple is going to pay more attention to the international markets than the US as times goes by. Just because some of you don't want anything bigger than 3.5" doesn't mean everybody else feels the same. In fact, the great majority do want something bigger. I hope Apple releases two versions (current 3.5" screen and the larger one) to keep everyone happy but I have a feeling they won't do that. As for me, I'll be happy with the larger screen as well.

  • Reply 69 of 118
    slurpyslurpy Posts: 5,090member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    Really? You don't see a problem with Apple moving their flagship device and profit source outside their proven market range? 


     


     


    When size determines the usability of the rest, yes, it becomes the preeminent factor in actually buying a device. If Tesla stopped making electric cars and only made electric limousines, you bet your biscuit I'm not just going to say, "Well, it's bigger than I wanted or find usable in any sense, but it's electric, and apparently that's more important."


     


    Well, I have an LG VX5300 that I've been using for six years. I think I'll just keep that. And when its battery finally dies, I won't be able to find another one, so I'll just move to my 1st-gen iPhone. 


     


     


    I'm sure it is. I'm also sure you're not certain what OCD means. I've explained multiple times the reasoning behind that. It's your choice to ignore it. 


     



     


    - 'Outside their proven market range'? What the hell does that even mean? Was the iPod in Apple's 'proven market range' when they came out with it? The iPhone? The iPad? What, enlarging the screen size is suddenly going to turn everything upside down? Apple CREATES their market range, it's not something that is dictated to them. Their 3.5" phones have been massively successful because that's the only thing they offered, not because they were specifically 3.5". The screen size was part of a fantastic product, as the next one will be, and thats not going to change. With your 'never change if successful' mentality Apple would have gone down the shitter a long time ago. Apple is successful because they constantly change and adapt, something you just can't seem to understand. 


     


    - Yes, great analogy. A 4" screen will still be one of the smallest smartphone screens on the market, yet you compare that to a limosine? Do you not realize how ridiculous that analogy is? Or did you not bother to think 5 seconds about it?  


     


    - The Galaxy Nexus/S2/Note are the most popular phones outside the iPhone, selling tens of millions, and they range from 4.7"-5.3". Yet, a 4" screen is suddenly a useability nightmare? On what planet? Why do you choose to ignore all data when making your ridiculous assertions? You speak as if Apple offers several screen sizes, and people are choosing the 3.5. Thats not how it works. Your 'useability' argument has no basis in reality, except in y our own mind. The market has shown otherwise, as large phones are selling by the tens of millions a quarter. And 4" doesn't even qualify as a large phone


     


    - Wait, so you don't even use an iPhone now? And you're planning to moving to the 1st gen iPhone, which has literally ZERO appstore support anymore, and neither do Apple's own apps? No to mention absolutely no iCloud support, a laughably bad camera, slow as molasses, terrible screen (by today's standards), etc etc. Why not at least get a 3GS, a 4, or a 4S? What exactly is it you like about Apple, since you don't seem to care a shred about any hardware, software, or features they've released in the past several years? And since you don't even use an iPhone now, nor have cared enough to  purchase one in the past 4 generations, why should your perspective on the next one mean anything to anyone? How ridiculous and irrational. You're no better than al those trolls that whine about the demise of Apple and 'iToys', or how they will stick with a 5 year old OS because of some support for legacy code, and their unwillingness to accept any kind of change. You don't represent any kind of mass market opinion, but some fringe mentality that Apple should and will ignore to remain successful. 

  • Reply 70 of 118


    There are over a half billion reasons to keep the device width the same - every iPhone app in the store was designed for specific dimensions. (That's a huge reason they exactly doubled the dpi.)  Apple will add a flag for new and resubmitted apps that will tell it to use the extra height.  This will mean almost no layout changes for many apps if they used the struts and springs right.


     


    For apps that don't have the use-the-extra-space flag set, they'll run as they always have at the old dimensions (probably at the bottom of the screen).  The home screen will have the added row of icons (or maybe Apple will do something interesting with the extra space in Springboard - that could be interesting).


     


    BTW, you'll still have to zoom for Safari (we're talking width).  You just will see more before having to scroll.


     


    Oh, and I've owned a Galaxy S II.  It seemed lightweight, but almost awkwardly big.  Apple's pushing it for what the average thumb can reach if you're trying to reach the top while using your iPhone with one hand, but I trust it wasn't past the usability threshold in their prototype testing.

  • Reply 71 of 118
    dickprinterdickprinter Posts: 1,060member


    Waiting patiently for SolipX to weigh in on this....

  • Reply 72 of 118
    kotatsukotatsu Posts: 1,010member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by gwmac View Post


    4" would have been nice a year or two ago but even that seems smallish now. Most of the top selling Android phone are 4.5 and larger like the 4.8" Samsung, Don't get me wrong, I am all for a larger screen on the iPhone and if I have to settle for only a slightly larger 4" screen then I guess I will. This is all about personal choice and preference and I know some people are perfectly fine with 3.5", but if I had my druthers I would love to see a 4.5" iPhone. I know Apple would probably never do this, but if they made the next iPhone in 2 versions, one with a 3.5" screen and the other with a 4.5" screen, and in all other respects identical. I have to believe the 4.5" would sell in far greater numbers. 



     


    Agreed. It feels like a half step, and one which won't stop people complaining.  Apple should go after the high end again, which is currently completely dominated by Samsung and HTC.  I'd love to see Apple do a 4.5" or 5" screen in the next iPhone.

  • Reply 73 of 118
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member


    Your vendetta against me is blinding you to what I'm saying. You may want to look to that.


     


    Quote:


    Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

    'Outside their proven market range'? What the hell does that even mean? Was the iPod in Apple's 'proven market range' when they came out with it? The iPhone? The iPad?


     


    When Apple releases a product, they release a product that can serve the purposes of 70-80 percent of the people for whom that product is being marketed. They don't care if some toes stick out or you can't pull the covers over your head, because the majority is covered, and that has been successful (and shown to ring true, if you look at marketshare) ever since the introduction of the iPod.


     


    Quote:


    What, enlarging the screen size is suddenly going to turn everything upside down? Apple CREATES their market range, it's not something that is dictated to them.



     


    No, but it will push things out of balance.


     


    Quote:


    Apple CREATES their market range, it's not something that is dictated to them.



     


    And yet you're screaming for them to enter a market that has already been saturated with dozens of Android phones, their existence being nothing but a response to Apple taking over the rest of the entire market.


     


    Quote:


     Their 3.5" phones have been massively successful because that's the only thing they offered, not because they were specifically 3.5". 



     


    {Citation needed.} I'm certainly not saying it's the only reason, I'm saying you can't say it isn't a reason.


     


    Quote:


    - Yes, great analogy. A 4" screen will still be one of the smallest smartphone screens on the market, yet you compare that to a limosine? Do you not realize how ridiculous that analogy is? Or did you not bother to think 5 seconds about it?



    When you think of an actual response, let me know. I'd love to continue this discussion to improve my analogies.


     


    Quote:


     You speak as if Apple offers several screen sizes, and people are choosing the 3.5. Thats not how it works.





    Right. Apple offers a screen size and everyone else offers the others. No one's forced to buy Apple products.


     


    Quote:

    And 4" doesn't even qualify as a large phone


     


    Funny how three years ago it did. Funny how four years ago people thought the iPhone was too big. And funny how your statement is based on your viewpoint, not everyone's.


     


    Quote:



    - Wait, so you don't even use an iPhone now? And you're planning to moving to the 1st gen iPhone, which has literally ZERO appstore support anymore, and neither do Apple's own apps? No to mention absolutely no iCloud support, a laughably bad camera, slow as molasses, terrible screen (by today's standards), etc etc. Why not at least get a 3GS, a 4, or a 4S?




     


    Well, I already have a first-gen. It's sitting right here. I've always wanted to use it as a phone. It's not slow at all, and all my apps still work on it.


     


    Quote:


    What exactly is it you like about Apple, since you don't seem to not care a shred about any hardware, software, or features they've released in the past few years? 



     


    That's certainly the case.


     


    Aside: deep red italic text should probably be the universal sign of bleeding sarcasm.


     


    Quote:


    And since you don't even use an iPhone now, nor have cared enough to  purchase one in the past 4 generations, why should your perspective on the next one mean anything to anyone? How ridiculous and irrational. 



     


    Funny. Because I thought the idea was bringing Android users over, because the only thing they care about is big screens. Apparently the perspective of these people, who have never used an iPhone, don't use one now, nor have cared enough to purchase one in the past four generations doesn't mean anything to anyone…


     


    … So Apple shouldn't be making a 4" phone to suit their "needs". Because they're ridiculous and irrational.


     


    See the problem there?

  • Reply 74 of 118
    island hermitisland hermit Posts: 6,217member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


    How does a Jobs-less Apple artfully pitch a larger iPhone?  Steve could sell just about anything to anyone.  Phil Schiller....I'm not so sure.

     



     


    It will sell itself... as long as Phil doesn't speak.

  • Reply 75 of 118
    cvaldes1831cvaldes1831 Posts: 1,832member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    No, the idea that Apple would update two phones at once. They didn't update the iPhone 3GS or the iPhone 4 when the iPhone 4S came out, as some rumors said.


     


    If they're moving to a two-size world, that's absolutely a different story, but I can't believe they'd do that.



     


    There's one plausible upgrade. Apple might put the 32nm A5 part into the iPhone 4S, just as they updated the iPad 2 with the newer part when the third-generation iPad 3 was released.


     


    The main benefit would be cheaper costs for Apple (smaller die = more chips per wafer) and slightly better battery performance for the consumer.


     


    The newer iPad 2 units are using the dual-core 32nm A5 part and the Apple TV is using the binned single-core 32nm A5. Moving the iPhone 4S this fall to the 32nm part would result in cost savings due to economies of scale. The 32nm part would also be more suitable for the iPod touch.

  • Reply 76 of 118
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Your vendetta against me is blinding you to what I'm saying. You may want to look to that.

    That may be true for Slurpy. However, I don't have any vendetta against you and I'm having a hard time understanding the vehemence of your position.

    There is enough extra space around the edges of the 3.5" iPhone screen that it could be made 4" (or very close to it) without increasing the size of the case at all. So if the external dimensions are the same, why would you object to 4"? Yes, your thumb might have to reach a whopping 1/8" further in the worst case scenario, but I can't see how that's such a huge "I'll never buy another iPhone" issue.
    kotatsu wrote: »
    Agreed. It feels like a half step, and one which won't stop people complaining.  Apple should go after the high end again, which is currently completely dominated by Samsung and HTC.  I'd love to see Apple do a 4.5" or 5" screen in the next iPhone.

    Nope. The iPhone can easily be manipulated with one hand. By the time you get to 4.5 to 5 inches, that's no longer practical. Since they can increase the screen size to around 4" without increasing the size of the device, you don't have such a problem with a 4" phone. You do have a problem if you go beyond that.
    There are over a half billion reasons to keep the device width the same - every iPhone app in the store was designed for specific dimensions. (That's a huge reason they exactly doubled the dpi.)  Apple will add a flag for new and resubmitted apps that will tell it to use the extra height.  This will mean almost no layout changes for many apps if they used the struts and springs right.

    People keep making that statement, but it's absolutely false. If they keep the same aspect ratio and resolution and increase the screen size from 3.5" to 4.0", the developer doesn't have to do anything. Everything on screen would be 10-15" larger, but the developer could use the existing code without modification.

    The only exception would be an app that uses real-life measurements (like a ruler app, for example), but there are very few of those.

    rogifan wrote: »
    How does a Jobs-less Apple artfully pitch a larger iPhone?  Steve could sell just about anything to anyone.  Phil Schiller....I'm not so sure.

     

    I don't think it would take much selling. "Same dimensions outside but bigger screen inside. It's magic." What is there to sell?
  • Reply 77 of 118
    jcozjcoz Posts: 251member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cvaldes1831 View Post

     

    There's one plausible upgrade. Apple might put the 32nm A5 part into the iPhone 4S, just as they updated the iPad 2 with the newer part when the third-generation iPad 3 was released.

     

    The main benefit would be cheaper costs for Apple (smaller die = more chips per wafer) and slightly better battery performance for the consumer.

     

    The newer iPad 2 units are using the dual-core 32nm A5 part and the Apple TV is using the binned single-core 32nm A5. Moving the iPhone 4S this fall to the 32nm part would result in cost savings due to economies of scale. The 32nm part would also be more suitable for the iPod touch.

     

    I was thinking the same. This seems very realistic.
  • Reply 78 of 118
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post


     


    You're a moderator, shouldn't you show just a TAD of rationality in your posts, and tone down on the extremism and sensationalism? 



    I just discovered you cannot block a Global Moderator. Shucks!

  • Reply 79 of 118
    jcozjcoz Posts: 251member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post



    That may be true for Slurpy. However, I don't have any vendetta against you and I'm having a hard time understanding the vehemence of your position.

    There is enough extra space around the edges of the 3.5" iPhone screen that it could be made 4" (or very close to it) without increasing the size of the case at all. So if the external dimensions are the same, why would you object to 4"? Yes, your thumb might have to reach a whopping 1/8" further in the worst case scenario, but I can't see how that's such a huge "I'll never buy another iPhone" issue.

    Nope. The iPhone can easily be manipulated with one hand. By the time you get to 4.5 to 5 inches, that's no longer practical. Since they can increase the screen size to around 4" without increasing the size of the device, you don't have such a problem with a 4" phone. You do have a problem if you go beyond that.

    People keep making that statement, but it's absolutely false. If they keep the same aspect ratio and resolution and increase the screen size from 3.5" to 4.0", the developer doesn't have to do anything. Everything on screen would be 10-15" larger, but the developer could use the existing code without modification.

    The only exception would be an app that uses real-life measurements (like a ruler app, for example), but there are very few of those.

    I don't think it would take much selling. "Same dimensions outside but bigger screen inside. It's magic." What is there to sell?

     

    I actually think expanding the lineup makes more sense than the one size fits all approach now. Remember apple started in this with much more modest goals. 1% of the market. Its not beyond reason that its time to reconfigure those goals and then your method of addressing them.

    Clearly Samsung and others have shown there is a large portion of the premium smartphone hardware market that apple is not appealing to. Its not a minority group of people buying those phones. There is no reason for apple to force a huge group of potential customers to piss off simply because they prefer a larger screen size.
  • Reply 80 of 118
    slurpyslurpy Posts: 5,090member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Jcoz View Post


     

    I actually think expanding the lineup makes more sense than the one size fits all approach now. Remember apple started in this with much more modest goals. 5% of the market. Its not beyond reason that its time to reconfigure those goals and then your method of addressing them. Clearly Samsung and others have shown there is a large portion of the premium smartphone hardware market that apple is not appealing to. Its not a minority group of people buying those phones. There is no reason for apple to force a huge group of potential customers to piss off simply because they prefer a larger screen size.


     


    Their originally stated goal was 1% of the market, which makes their current success all the more impressive. 

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