It seems the expectations for either system are a tad too high. This is what 3D maps are. I have little doubt based the Apple/C3 take will be much different. There's no way this was 'thrown together." either. There's massive amounts of data to be collected and structured. It doesn't happen overnight. Google didn't have to re show navigation layered over it, they already offer that. They say they have over a Billion active users a month of maps, that's a heck of a data/crowd source of info. Apple doesn't half ass things, but they sure have a good sized hill to climb.
Unless Apple's maps have turn-by-turn directions that automatically update to the next location and speak directions, it will be a complete failure and everyone will use this instead.
I think that sums up the argument about a new Maps app in iOS 6.
Are you saying that an article about the assumed Apple mapping system said it will do that?
I'd also like to see "turn-by-turn" functionality in Apple's maps, but this seems to be a crazy obsession for some people. Let's be realistic, the lack of this feature hasn't exactly impacted the iPhone's popularity so far, and it's silly to suggest Apple will have a "complete failure" without it.
The Google presentation was rushed as a Me-2 showing.
It's not gonna help much. The 3D maps were not impressive. No special features, just pictures from a plane.
Wait for Apple on Monday.
Time will tell.
Yep, pure premature technological penis envy. Google's ego just needed to do a demo before Apple to have some form of internal plausible deniability of their solution just being a me-too.
Really the most exciting part of the announcement was the downloadable maps, not the 3d feature.
I agree, fun as 3d is, I just want turn bu turn when i go to europe without having to rent a GPS or use roaming data.
3d maps on a (in the case of the iphone) 3.5" screen just seems pointless. Maybe one of the larger android phones it would make sense, but not iphone.
May be better to have turn-by-turn interlaced with streetview. Now THAT would be amazing. You would see EXACTLY where to turn from the perpective of street view in real ti.......
...........*Goes off to patent the idea before Apple does*
Yep, pure premature technological penis envy. Google's ego just needed to do a demo before Apple to have some form of internal plausible deniability of their solution just being a me-too.
Yeah, apple deciding to rip off google maps and make a maps app doesn't smack of me-too at all..........
Google has had 3d for years by the way, all they have done is bring it into a high res, rotate anywhere space. So tell me again, how is google 3d maps, which have been around for years, a me-too?
I remember the high hopes and predictions people had for Siri pre-release...and, while it is a cool feature, based on the predictions Siri is a dud.
Siri has lots of room for improvement, but I find it very useful as-is. For dictating quick emails, text messages, reminders and to-do/shopping lists it easily beats thumb typing.
uhhhh.....first of all, how can you me too a product that doesn't exist. Matter of fact, Apple very much seems to be me-tooing google maps. kinda like Samsung making an iphone knock-off with a few extra features, at the end of the day, its still a knock off. Sad apple feel they need to, but hey, whatever. BUt also remember
1. Google mpas has had 3d in one form or another for YEARS.
2. This 3d isn't a bird eye view still pic, it can be rotated and interacted with, like a a game.
3. Content. Just the content from street view alone (streets, ski slopes, mountain treks, indoor buildings) would take apple years to do. Satellites and planes are all well and good, but even they can't give you mountain treks and indoor maps.
4. Lets not forget google sky and google ocean as well. They aren't just mapping cities, They are mapping the world, and by google sky, mapping the universe.
Now, having said all this. What does the typical mobile maps user need?
Space maps? No
Ocean Maps? No
3d maps? cool to have, but no
street view of a back corner of a shady town part of vietnam? No
Turn by turn? yes
driving Routes? yes
biking routes? yes
traffic? yes
train, buses and walking routes? Yes
If apple just manage to focus on these five very basic things which most mapping services already do equally well (more or less at least in major cities) they should be fine. Everything else are cool things to have that you will never use in a mobile situation.
You miss on a lot there, only thinking of legacy uses. Google Maps is not in the least way interactive, not game-like at all, none of the solutions are currently. When the 3D actually becomes interactive you will have a completely different potential set of uses. Augmented reality just being one of the more immediately useful, and unfortunately big targets for advertising.
The actual 3D part can also contribute to crowd sourcing textures from photos if the sharing/privacy issues can be worked out. Street view is a tour de force of era 2000 database and serving technology, pretty pedestrian today. Fully textured 3D will give far more information on less bandwidth and much less storage requirement.
1. Google mpas has had 3d in one form or another for YEARS.
2. This 3d isn't a bird eye view still pic, it can be rotated and interacted with, like a a game.
4. Lets not forget google sky and google ocean as well. They aren't just mapping cities, They are mapping the world, and by google sky, mapping the universe.
Google has all this on mobile? (not the last time I checked...)
Didn't seem to me like they had much to really "unveal" here. They talked about the past more than they did about "whats coming". Thier app crashed about 4 times too... seems really thrown together.
Also they said the process is totally automated... I doubt the pilots that have to fly over every city on earth with a special camera think so.
The thing I can't understand is that the description of the technology sounds *exactly* like what Apple is doing and Apple's tech is based on a patented algorithm developed by the military. Unless the description of what Apple is doing is wrong, we have to assume Apple made a giant dumbass move in buying the C3 tech? How could Google have come up with the same algorithm or anything similar in such a short time?
Something stinks here. There's either a lawsuit in the making or Google is flat out lying about the capabilities of it's software.
1. Google maps (sic) has had 3d in one form or another for YEARS.
...
Your misrepresenting the facts here. The key term in your sentence is "one form or another."
The 3D tech that Google has been using is nothing like this at all. They were using simple wireframe blocks for buildings and sticking photos over the top. This is automatic 3D mapping exactly like the technology that Apple bought and something that as far as I am aware they have never used before.
Really the most exciting part of the announcement was the downloadable maps, not the 3d feature.
I think so too. 3D maps is meh, but downloadable maps is huge. I have switched to Open Street Maps from Google Maps when on the go just for that; now maybe I will not have to keep two apps on my phone...
"Google on Wednesday unveiled what it has promoted as the "next dimension" of its Maps service, with new full 3D renderings for Google Earth that were demonstrated live on an Apple iPad."
Well, based on what C3 could do, Apple's will support more viewing angles than 45 degrees. More details via zooming, more layers and layers of information on the maps, more maps.
I remember the high hopes and predictions people had for Siri pre-release...and, while it is a cool feature, based on the predictions Siri is a dud.
I don't know if it will or not do that. However, this is more than a "prediction" taken from some random blog, but an actual researched article from a reputable newspaper, citing sources that actually worked on the project.
According to these sources, the purpose of the mapping software was not only to do "maps" but to offer location based services to all applications.
I can certainly imagine Apple doing something like that.
In any case, my point was not to add to the hype or to claim that Apple is better than Google, but to point out the differences in approaches, which is something that the WSJ article also mentions: rather than working on "maps," Apple wants to solve a bigger problem.
Google may also be aiming to do this, but I saw no indication of that in the presentation. It was mostly regarding the coolness of the 3D mapping technology, which is seriously cool, I admit.
That's a problem. Google maps already functions and will soon look "sexier," as you put it. If both companies' maps are equally functional but Google's look decidedly better then isn't Apple's maps a downgrade?
That's a very good point. I have to admit that while I find Street View occasionally useful, and this 3D thing looks pretty cool, I like Google Maps because the standard 2D maps are so damn readable. That's the thing that needs to be at least as good or better if an alternative to Google Maps is to do well.
Everything beyond the 2D maps is bells and whistles.....
I wonder just how much of this stuff/tech is actually from Google seeing as there is an awful lot of copyright and data copyright for people other than Google on almost EVERY section of that first video?
I'm guessing, like Apple, most of it's bought in and not the implied "invented at Google".
Comments
It seems the expectations for either system are a tad too high. This is what 3D maps are. I have little doubt based the Apple/C3 take will be much different. There's no way this was 'thrown together." either. There's massive amounts of data to be collected and structured. It doesn't happen overnight. Google didn't have to re show navigation layered over it, they already offer that. They say they have over a Billion active users a month of maps, that's a heck of a data/crowd source of info. Apple doesn't half ass things, but they sure have a good sized hill to climb.
Really the most exciting part of the announcement was the downloadable maps, not the 3d feature.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Unless Apple's maps have turn-by-turn directions that automatically update to the next location and speak directions, it will be a complete failure and everyone will use this instead.
I think that sums up the argument about a new Maps app in iOS 6.
Are you saying that an article about the assumed Apple mapping system said it will do that?
I'd also like to see "turn-by-turn" functionality in Apple's maps, but this seems to be a crazy obsession for some people. Let's be realistic, the lack of this feature hasn't exactly impacted the iPhone's popularity so far, and it's silly to suggest Apple will have a "complete failure" without it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleSauce007
The Google presentation was rushed as a Me-2 showing.
It's not gonna help much. The 3D maps were not impressive. No special features, just pictures from a plane.
Wait for Apple on Monday.
Time will tell.
Yep, pure premature technological penis envy. Google's ego just needed to do a demo before Apple to have some form of internal plausible deniability of their solution just being a me-too.
Apple better be on top of their game at WWDC.
If they release anything close to what has been "leaked" the company is in some serious trouble.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baka-Dubbs
Really the most exciting part of the announcement was the downloadable maps, not the 3d feature.
I agree, fun as 3d is, I just want turn bu turn when i go to europe without having to rent a GPS or use roaming data.
3d maps on a (in the case of the iphone) 3.5" screen just seems pointless. Maybe one of the larger android phones it would make sense, but not iphone.
May be better to have turn-by-turn interlaced with streetview. Now THAT would be amazing. You would see EXACTLY where to turn from the perpective of street view in real ti.......
...........*Goes off to patent the idea before Apple does*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro
Yep, pure premature technological penis envy. Google's ego just needed to do a demo before Apple to have some form of internal plausible deniability of their solution just being a me-too.
Yeah, apple deciding to rip off google maps and make a maps app doesn't smack of me-too at all..........
Google has had 3d for years by the way, all they have done is bring it into a high res, rotate anywhere space. So tell me again, how is google 3d maps, which have been around for years, a me-too?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz
Can Apple's maps do that?
I remember the high hopes and predictions people had for Siri pre-release...and, while it is a cool feature, based on the predictions Siri is a dud.
Siri has lots of room for improvement, but I find it very useful as-is. For dictating quick emails, text messages, reminders and to-do/shopping lists it easily beats thumb typing.
Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3
uhhhh.....first of all, how can you me too a product that doesn't exist. Matter of fact, Apple very much seems to be me-tooing google maps. kinda like Samsung making an iphone knock-off with a few extra features, at the end of the day, its still a knock off. Sad apple feel they need to, but hey, whatever. BUt also remember
1. Google mpas has had 3d in one form or another for YEARS.
2. This 3d isn't a bird eye view still pic, it can be rotated and interacted with, like a a game.
3. Content. Just the content from street view alone (streets, ski slopes, mountain treks, indoor buildings) would take apple years to do. Satellites and planes are all well and good, but even they can't give you mountain treks and indoor maps.
4. Lets not forget google sky and google ocean as well. They aren't just mapping cities, They are mapping the world, and by google sky, mapping the universe.
Now, having said all this. What does the typical mobile maps user need?
Space maps? No
Ocean Maps? No
3d maps? cool to have, but no
street view of a back corner of a shady town part of vietnam? No
Turn by turn? yes
driving Routes? yes
biking routes? yes
traffic? yes
train, buses and walking routes? Yes
If apple just manage to focus on these five very basic things which most mapping services already do equally well (more or less at least in major cities) they should be fine. Everything else are cool things to have that you will never use in a mobile situation.
You miss on a lot there, only thinking of legacy uses. Google Maps is not in the least way interactive, not game-like at all, none of the solutions are currently. When the 3D actually becomes interactive you will have a completely different potential set of uses. Augmented reality just being one of the more immediately useful, and unfortunately big targets for advertising.
The actual 3D part can also contribute to crowd sourcing textures from photos if the sharing/privacy issues can be worked out. Street view is a tour de force of era 2000 database and serving technology, pretty pedestrian today. Fully textured 3D will give far more information on less bandwidth and much less storage requirement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3
1. Google mpas has had 3d in one form or another for YEARS.
2. This 3d isn't a bird eye view still pic, it can be rotated and interacted with, like a a game.
4. Lets not forget google sky and google ocean as well. They aren't just mapping cities, They are mapping the world, and by google sky, mapping the universe.
Google has all this on mobile? (not the last time I checked...)
If Apple used all of the capability of the SAAB military system they acquired there it is a lot more than that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hlevolve
Didn't seem to me like they had much to really "unveal" here. They talked about the past more than they did about "whats coming". Thier app crashed about 4 times too... seems really thrown together.
Also they said the process is totally automated... I doubt the pilots that have to fly over every city on earth with a special camera think so.
The thing I can't understand is that the description of the technology sounds *exactly* like what Apple is doing and Apple's tech is based on a patented algorithm developed by the military. Unless the description of what Apple is doing is wrong, we have to assume Apple made a giant dumbass move in buying the C3 tech? How could Google have come up with the same algorithm or anything similar in such a short time?
Something stinks here. There's either a lawsuit in the making or Google is flat out lying about the capabilities of it's software.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3
...
1. Google maps (sic) has had 3d in one form or another for YEARS.
...
Your misrepresenting the facts here. The key term in your sentence is "one form or another."
The 3D tech that Google has been using is nothing like this at all. They were using simple wireframe blocks for buildings and sticking photos over the top. This is automatic 3D mapping exactly like the technology that Apple bought and something that as far as I am aware they have never used before.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baka-Dubbs
Really the most exciting part of the announcement was the downloadable maps, not the 3d feature.
I think so too. 3D maps is meh, but downloadable maps is huge. I have switched to Open Street Maps from Google Maps when on the go just for that; now maybe I will not have to keep two apps on my phone...
"Google on Wednesday unveiled what it has promoted as the "next dimension" of its Maps service, with new full 3D renderings for Google Earth that were demonstrated live on an Apple iPad."
Ok.
*silence.*
*looks at watch*
Well. Time to get a bite to eat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Filmantopia
Yeah, if even just to take away the notion that Apple "invented" the tech, which so often is construed when Apple popularizes a feature.
Understandable, as Google has put so much work into it what with the planes in controlled patterns, etc.
Apple didn't invent it, Google didn't invent it. Poly9 certainly demoed this stuff first :P
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
That's what Apple's are.
Well, based on what C3 could do, Apple's will support more viewing angles than 45 degrees. More details via zooming, more layers and layers of information on the maps, more maps.
Time will tell.
Can Apple's maps do that?
I remember the high hopes and predictions people had for Siri pre-release...and, while it is a cool feature, based on the predictions Siri is a dud.
I don't know if it will or not do that. However, this is more than a "prediction" taken from some random blog, but an actual researched article from a reputable newspaper, citing sources that actually worked on the project.
According to these sources, the purpose of the mapping software was not only to do "maps" but to offer location based services to all applications.
I can certainly imagine Apple doing something like that.
In any case, my point was not to add to the hype or to claim that Apple is better than Google, but to point out the differences in approaches, which is something that the WSJ article also mentions: rather than working on "maps," Apple wants to solve a bigger problem.
Google may also be aiming to do this, but I saw no indication of that in the presentation. It was mostly regarding the coolness of the 3D mapping technology, which is seriously cool, I admit.
-dZ.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance
That's a problem. Google maps already functions and will soon look "sexier," as you put it. If both companies' maps are equally functional but Google's look decidedly better then isn't Apple's maps a downgrade?
That's a very good point. I have to admit that while I find Street View occasionally useful, and this 3D thing looks pretty cool, I like Google Maps because the standard 2D maps are so damn readable. That's the thing that needs to be at least as good or better if an alternative to Google Maps is to do well.
Everything beyond the 2D maps is bells and whistles.....
I wonder just how much of this stuff/tech is actually from Google seeing as there is an awful lot of copyright and data copyright for people other than Google on almost EVERY section of that first video?
I'm guessing, like Apple, most of it's bought in and not the implied "invented at Google".