Standard response 642, straight out of the Android shill handbook.
Well he was just responding to standard response 358 out of iphone handbook
"Android is just ripping off "insert feature" from iOS"
On another note, at the end of the day. To the NORMAL person (90% of iphone buyers, those that have never even heard of what an A5 chip is) buying an iphone, the fact of the matter is if the mapping app that comes with the phone is good enough (gives turn by turn and tell you where the nearest gas station is), they will never use anything else. Apple know that. They don't NEED to map out the inside of every shopping mall. All of those are awesome features to have, but unless you ever used an android phone you won't even know it exists, and hence wouldn't care about it.
Bottom line, Apple releases a 'good enough app' that does its PRIMARY function (get you from point A to point , they win.
Bottom line, Apple releases a 'good enough app' that does its PRIMARY function (get you from point A to point , they win.
Bottom line, "if" Apple makes Apple iMAPple 12-D Mappy maps the DEFAULT map app on the iPhone they win the audience they want, even if it's not as good.
That's a very good point. I have to admit that while I find Street View occasionally useful, and this 3D thing looks pretty cool, I like Google Maps because the standard 2D maps are so damn readable. That's the thing that needs to be at least as good or better if an alternative to Google Maps is to do well.
Everything beyond the 2D maps is bells and whistles.....
For mobile however, your wants couldn't be farther from the norm. The one "must have" and most popular feature for maps on mobile devices is actually street view. Second would be turn by turn navigation. Also, 2D maps are 2D maps, they are all about as readable as each other and the data has been around for years and years. Accuracy is more important to the average end user in that situation.
If Apple can demonstrate that it's maps have the same information and the same or better accuracy rate than Google's that's a win. If they can also (rather crucially) find a way to replace street view with the 3D view then they will have a lock. Without a street view replacement a *lot* of people are going to go with the Google alternative instead.
If you look closely at Google's presentation, the 3D looks rather jaggy and probably is just a blur at street level. This doesn't matter because they have the street view database to compensate/replace that data. If Apple breaks with Google however, chances are they lose street view and if they can't replace it (presumably by being far more accurate in 3D than Google) then they might be in trouble.
Really the most exciting part of the announcement was the downloadable maps, not the 3d feature.
I agree. What does 3D or any of these other fancy features mean to you when you're heading into an area of spotty or no data coverage to access them?
I think the downloadable maps is a great step. Hopefully Apple will allow this as well. If not, I'm sure Google will be submitting a new Google Maps app to the App Store. I don't see why (or even how) Apple could not approve it unless it somehow violates the terms of service. There are, after all, other mapping applications already. Frankly, I don't think Apple would block it.
It's a massive, complex 3D world to swoop around in. A lot of polygons, a lot of textures. It has to be very, very well organized to run without any hickups, streaming map data on the fly from the servers and getting them into the app with truly multithreaded and optimised code. For instance Google Earth on iPhone is a horrible example of a map app, and it's even without complex 3D geometry. Very poor performance, and user experience. It's a poorly written app.
Apple's engineers has to deliver a first class app.
Siri has lots of room for improvement, but I find it very useful as-is. For dictating quick emails, text messages, reminders and to-do/shopping lists it easily beats thumb typing.
Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
I agree...But people really thought (think?) Siri is AI and had some seriously Star Trek esque high hopes for it.
Nokia and Navteq have been doing everything that Google just announced. They have 3D maps, Offline usage on mobile, Turn by Turn, Routing, etc. Seems like Google was trying to pre-empt the Apple announcement and play some catch up to Nokia/Navteq
I agree. What does 3D or any of these other fancy features mean to you when you're heading into an area of spotty or no data coverage to access them?
I think the downloadable maps is a great step. Hopefully Apple will allow this as well. If not, I'm sure Google will be submitting a new Google Maps app to the App Store. I don't see why (or even how) Apple could not approve it unless it somehow violates the terms of service. There are, after all, other mapping applications already. Frankly, I don't think Apple would block it.
I use Navigon with about a gig and a half of downloaded maps. It is great when abroad because I don't have to use any data while on the road. But yes, for everyday use, accuracy and I easy input ranks very high. The problem with my Navigon App is that often it just doesn't recognize the address I enter. I use google maps in the car often and entering data while driving is a bit dicey. So the important features - way before 3d - are:
Coverage
Accuracy
Usability
But I gotta say, seeing that 3d video I sort of expected to see the cars move. Beyond that the 3d is pretty, if pretty useless in a practical context. If I automatically saw 3d images on my GPS as I turn into my destination street it would pretty awesome.
Google unveiling this now, and on an iPad wasn't by accident.
It was a tactic to be able to say that they did it first and aren't copying Apple and yeah maybe this is something they have been working on for a while but it isn't going to help them much on the PR front that they slapped up an announcement to beat Apple to the punch on announcing
as for the iPad, it is their way of saying 'hey we aren't scared of Apple, we love Apple see we made our stuff for them too" But given that the presentation crashed repeatedly I don't know that many folks will rush to get Google Earth if Apple releases anything map related. particularly if they so much as hint at future 3d inclusion. Because Apple isn't about to release something that was slapped up after 3 years of work on this project.
It was a tactic to be able to say that they did it first and aren't copying Apple and yeah maybe this is something they have been working on for a while but it isn't going to help them much on the PR front that they slapped up an announcement to beat Apple to the punch on announcing
Or it was preemptive because they know people like you claim Google copies Apple even if Google has the tech in place long before Apple does.
Hell, your crowd is the same crowd that at times likes to claim that Google's Android copied notifications from Web OS (and thus iOS wasn't inspired in the least by Android...somehow) even though it was released earlier.
Hell your implying that Google is copying Apple...when you haven't seen a single pixel of Apple's map technology...
It's a massive, complex 3D world to swoop around in. A lot of polygons, a lot of textures. It has to be very, very well organized to run without any hickups, streaming map data on the fly from the servers and getting them into the app with truly multithreaded and optimised code. For instance Google Earth on iPhone is a horrible example of a map app, and it's even without complex 3D geometry. Very poor performance, and user experience. It's a poorly written app.
Apple's engineers has to deliver a first class app.
I think it may be a very cool app, but not that useful. Or at least nowhere near as functional as it will be presented as being. In other words it will show us the future without fully delivering. A bit like Siri. Apple likes to deliver with big fanfare and including words like 'revolutionary and 'magical'. It must be hard to think up something really exciting that can sell a phone these days. Improved specs are expected. A little thinner, a little larger, a little faster is not something you can claim to be 'revolutionary'. A great map app could be but the likelihood of it being a game changer is small, me thinks. If it is cool and above all, fun, Apple will be able to market the crap out of it.
For mobile however, your wants couldn't be farther from the norm. The one "must have" and most popular feature for maps on mobile devices is actually street view. Second would be turn by turn navigation. Also, 2D maps are 2D maps, they are all about as readable as each other and the data has been around for years and years. Accuracy is more important to the average end user in that situation.
If Apple can demonstrate that it's maps have the same information and the same or better accuracy rate than Google's that's a win. If they can also (rather crucially) find a way to replace street view with the 3D view then they will have a lock. Without a street view replacement a *lot* of people are going to go with the Google alternative instead.
If you look closely at Google's presentation, the 3D looks rather jaggy and probably is just a blur at street level. This doesn't matter because they have the street view database to compensate/replace that data. If Apple breaks with Google however, chances are they lose street view and if they can't replace it (presumably by being far more accurate in 3D than Google) then they might be in trouble.
Where are you getting your information on normal use? On my Galaxy Nexus (yes, I have an Android phone) I use turn by turn navigation a couple times a week. I never use street view because navigation lets me watch the road and simply listen to prompts. Plus, the street view image of your destination is shown when you're close enough to see the building. If Apple builds in turn by turn navigation into iOS maps, you'll quickly realize that it is the key feature to any mobile maps application.
Unless Apple's maps have turn-by-turn directions that automatically update to the next location and speak directions, it will be a complete failure and everyone will use this instead.
I think that sums up the argument about a new Maps app in iOS 6.
I thought the argument was: "if Google done it, it's great and open and soooo innovative, but if Apple done it, it's a copy of what everyone else is doing but they just put it in prettier boxes and shinier marketing."
I thought the argument was: "if Google done it, it's great and open and soooo innovative, but if Apple done it, it's a copy of what everyone else is doing but they just put it in prettier boxes and shinier marketing."
"Why don't you stop suing people and innovate, Apple!"
I'm partial to that one. Strangely enough, I'm less partial to its friend, "Guess Apple can't keep up, so they have to sue the leaders."
Hmm... this seems familiar. What other company out there would often produce flashy marketing videos for products they weren't ready to release to throw people off a competitor's product? Gee, can't quite remember who it was that did that.
So Google demos some work-in-progress 3D views of 'a few major cities' that look identical to what Apple acquired from C3 Technologies a year ago. And it crashes 4 times. And there's no release date. All this a week before Apple unveils its new, and presumably polished/feature complete Google-free iOS-wide maps app.
Pretty transparent bit of last-minute desperation from Google if you ask me.
All I want from my Maps app (whether it be Apple's or Google's) is an easy-to-use and accurate directions to help me get from Point A to Point B while in motion.
Some complains about the current Maps:
1. I cannot disable using toll roads and Southern California is full of them.
2. When I do a refresh to update the estimate how much time is remaining and how far away I am, it can get confused on where I am at and what direction I am heading (e.g. it will tell me to jump off the highway and jump back on again going the opposite direction because it thinks I am going southbound rather than northbound).
At the least, auto-updating directions would be sweet even if it is not to the extent of turn-by-turn. 3D is merely a gimmick.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Filmantopia
Yeah, if even just to take away the notion that Apple "invented" the tech...
Standard response 642, straight out of the Android shill handbook.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60
Standard response 642, straight out of the Android shill handbook.
Well he was just responding to standard response 358 out of iphone handbook
"Android is just ripping off "insert feature" from iOS"
On another note, at the end of the day. To the NORMAL person (90% of iphone buyers, those that have never even heard of what an A5 chip is) buying an iphone, the fact of the matter is if the mapping app that comes with the phone is good enough (gives turn by turn and tell you where the nearest gas station is), they will never use anything else. Apple know that. They don't NEED to map out the inside of every shopping mall. All of those are awesome features to have, but unless you ever used an android phone you won't even know it exists, and hence wouldn't care about it.
Bottom line, Apple releases a 'good enough app' that does its PRIMARY function (get you from point A to point
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3
Bottom line, Apple releases a 'good enough app' that does its PRIMARY function (get you from point A to point
Bottom line, "if" Apple makes Apple iMAPple 12-D Mappy maps the DEFAULT map app on the iPhone they win the audience they want, even if it's not as good.
heh, mapple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson
That's a very good point. I have to admit that while I find Street View occasionally useful, and this 3D thing looks pretty cool, I like Google Maps because the standard 2D maps are so damn readable. That's the thing that needs to be at least as good or better if an alternative to Google Maps is to do well.
Everything beyond the 2D maps is bells and whistles.....
For mobile however, your wants couldn't be farther from the norm. The one "must have" and most popular feature for maps on mobile devices is actually street view. Second would be turn by turn navigation. Also, 2D maps are 2D maps, they are all about as readable as each other and the data has been around for years and years. Accuracy is more important to the average end user in that situation.
If Apple can demonstrate that it's maps have the same information and the same or better accuracy rate than Google's that's a win. If they can also (rather crucially) find a way to replace street view with the 3D view then they will have a lock. Without a street view replacement a *lot* of people are going to go with the Google alternative instead.
If you look closely at Google's presentation, the 3D looks rather jaggy and probably is just a blur at street level. This doesn't matter because they have the street view database to compensate/replace that data. If Apple breaks with Google however, chances are they lose street view and if they can't replace it (presumably by being far more accurate in 3D than Google) then they might be in trouble.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baka-Dubbs
Really the most exciting part of the announcement was the downloadable maps, not the 3d feature.
I agree. What does 3D or any of these other fancy features mean to you when you're heading into an area of spotty or no data coverage to access them?
I think the downloadable maps is a great step. Hopefully Apple will allow this as well. If not, I'm sure Google will be submitting a new Google Maps app to the App Store. I don't see why (or even how) Apple could not approve it unless it somehow violates the terms of service. There are, after all, other mapping applications already. Frankly, I don't think Apple would block it.
It's a massive, complex 3D world to swoop around in. A lot of polygons, a lot of textures. It has to be very, very well organized to run without any hickups, streaming map data on the fly from the servers and getting them into the app with truly multithreaded and optimised code. For instance Google Earth on iPhone is a horrible example of a map app, and it's even without complex 3D geometry. Very poor performance, and user experience. It's a poorly written app.
Apple's engineers has to deliver a first class app.
Quote:
Originally Posted by freediverx
Siri has lots of room for improvement, but I find it very useful as-is. For dictating quick emails, text messages, reminders and to-do/shopping lists it easily beats thumb typing.
Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
I agree...But people really thought (think?) Siri is AI and had some seriously Star Trek esque high hopes for it.
Nokia and Navteq have been doing everything that Google just announced. They have 3D maps, Offline usage on mobile, Turn by Turn, Routing, etc. Seems like Google was trying to pre-empt the Apple announcement and play some catch up to Nokia/Navteq
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUnfetteredMind
I agree. What does 3D or any of these other fancy features mean to you when you're heading into an area of spotty or no data coverage to access them?
I think the downloadable maps is a great step. Hopefully Apple will allow this as well. If not, I'm sure Google will be submitting a new Google Maps app to the App Store. I don't see why (or even how) Apple could not approve it unless it somehow violates the terms of service. There are, after all, other mapping applications already. Frankly, I don't think Apple would block it.
I use Navigon with about a gig and a half of downloaded maps. It is great when abroad because I don't have to use any data while on the road. But yes, for everyday use, accuracy and I easy input ranks very high. The problem with my Navigon App is that often it just doesn't recognize the address I enter. I use google maps in the car often and entering data while driving is a bit dicey. So the important features - way before 3d - are:
Coverage
Accuracy
Usability
But I gotta say, seeing that 3d video I sort of expected to see the cars move. Beyond that the 3d is pretty, if pretty useless in a practical context. If I automatically saw 3d images on my GPS as I turn into my destination street it would pretty awesome.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
Google unveiling this now, and on an iPad wasn't by accident.
It was a tactic to be able to say that they did it first and aren't copying Apple and yeah maybe this is something they have been working on for a while but it isn't going to help them much on the PR front that they slapped up an announcement to beat Apple to the punch on announcing
as for the iPad, it is their way of saying 'hey we aren't scared of Apple, we love Apple see we made our stuff for them too" But given that the presentation crashed repeatedly I don't know that many folks will rush to get Google Earth if Apple releases anything map related. particularly if they so much as hint at future 3d inclusion. Because Apple isn't about to release something that was slapped up after 3 years of work on this project.
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna
It was a tactic to be able to say that they did it first and aren't copying Apple and yeah maybe this is something they have been working on for a while but it isn't going to help them much on the PR front that they slapped up an announcement to beat Apple to the punch on announcing
Or it was preemptive because they know people like you claim Google copies Apple even if Google has the tech in place long before Apple does.
Hell, your crowd is the same crowd that at times likes to claim that Google's Android copied notifications from Web OS (and thus iOS wasn't inspired in the least by Android...somehow) even though it was released earlier.
Hell your implying that Google is copying Apple...when you haven't seen a single pixel of Apple's map technology...
Quote:
Originally Posted by palegolas
It's a massive, complex 3D world to swoop around in. A lot of polygons, a lot of textures. It has to be very, very well organized to run without any hickups, streaming map data on the fly from the servers and getting them into the app with truly multithreaded and optimised code. For instance Google Earth on iPhone is a horrible example of a map app, and it's even without complex 3D geometry. Very poor performance, and user experience. It's a poorly written app.
Apple's engineers has to deliver a first class app.
I think it may be a very cool app, but not that useful. Or at least nowhere near as functional as it will be presented as being. In other words it will show us the future without fully delivering. A bit like Siri. Apple likes to deliver with big fanfare and including words like 'revolutionary and 'magical'. It must be hard to think up something really exciting that can sell a phone these days. Improved specs are expected. A little thinner, a little larger, a little faster is not something you can claim to be 'revolutionary'. A great map app could be but the likelihood of it being a game changer is small, me thinks. If it is cool and above all, fun, Apple will be able to market the crap out of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
For mobile however, your wants couldn't be farther from the norm. The one "must have" and most popular feature for maps on mobile devices is actually street view. Second would be turn by turn navigation. Also, 2D maps are 2D maps, they are all about as readable as each other and the data has been around for years and years. Accuracy is more important to the average end user in that situation.
If Apple can demonstrate that it's maps have the same information and the same or better accuracy rate than Google's that's a win. If they can also (rather crucially) find a way to replace street view with the 3D view then they will have a lock. Without a street view replacement a *lot* of people are going to go with the Google alternative instead.
If you look closely at Google's presentation, the 3D looks rather jaggy and probably is just a blur at street level. This doesn't matter because they have the street view database to compensate/replace that data. If Apple breaks with Google however, chances are they lose street view and if they can't replace it (presumably by being far more accurate in 3D than Google) then they might be in trouble.
Where are you getting your information on normal use? On my Galaxy Nexus (yes, I have an Android phone) I use turn by turn navigation a couple times a week. I never use street view because navigation lets me watch the road and simply listen to prompts. Plus, the street view image of your destination is shown when you're close enough to see the building. If Apple builds in turn by turn navigation into iOS maps, you'll quickly realize that it is the key feature to any mobile maps application.
I thought the argument was: "if Google done it, it's great and open and soooo innovative, but if Apple done it, it's a copy of what everyone else is doing but they just put it in prettier boxes and shinier marketing."
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz
I remember the high hopes and predictions people had for Siri pre-release...and, while it is a cool feature, based on the predictions Siri is a dud.
Yep, just like the Wright brothers' biplane, Marconi's radio, Ford's assembly line, Bell's telephone, etc. etc.,
ALL Duds!
...at least compared to what they eventually became.
What Siri portends is a symbiosis the beta can't deliver, but its descendants will.
I suggest, do a Rip van Winkle, and, when you wake up (if that happens), you might not be so disappointed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton
I thought the argument was: "if Google done it, it's great and open and soooo innovative, but if Apple done it, it's a copy of what everyone else is doing but they just put it in prettier boxes and shinier marketing."
"Why don't you stop suing people and innovate, Apple!"
I'm partial to that one. Strangely enough, I'm less partial to its friend, "Guess Apple can't keep up, so they have to sue the leaders."
Hmm... this seems familiar. What other company out there would often produce flashy marketing videos for products they weren't ready to release to throw people off a competitor's product? Gee, can't quite remember who it was that did that.
So Google demos some work-in-progress 3D views of 'a few major cities' that look identical to what Apple acquired from C3 Technologies a year ago. And it crashes 4 times. And there's no release date. All this a week before Apple unveils its new, and presumably polished/feature complete Google-free iOS-wide maps app.
Pretty transparent bit of last-minute desperation from Google if you ask me.
All I want from my Maps app (whether it be Apple's or Google's) is an easy-to-use and accurate directions to help me get from Point A to Point B while in motion.
Some complains about the current Maps:
1. I cannot disable using toll roads and Southern California is full of them.
2. When I do a refresh to update the estimate how much time is remaining and how far away I am, it can get confused on where I am at and what direction I am heading (e.g. it will tell me to jump off the highway and jump back on again going the opposite direction because it thinks I am going southbound rather than northbound).
At the least, auto-updating directions would be sweet even if it is not to the extent of turn-by-turn. 3D is merely a gimmick.