A portable computing device with a physical keyboard? That's ingenious - it's called a laptop and they've been around for years.
True.... or it's an ultrabook with a touchscreen and a removable keyboard.
I'm speaking, of course, about the Windows 8 Pro version. For those who need full Windows on a thin and light device... it's a pretty good idea. And let's face it... there are a lot of people who still use Windows.
The Windows RT version is rubbish, however... and I see no point in buying a Windows RT tablet over an iPad.
I wouldn't say 'no way'. They could, especially if you group both models together. There are some folks that do want the tablet form with 'real computer' parts and this Pro model might attract them. And thus they might get that 1/3. Higher than that, I'm doubting until the app market is better, especially for the Consumer models.
I'll say no way. Hell they wont sell 1/10th of what the iPad does. I dont see this doing any better than the Blackberry Playbook or HP/Palm Touchpad. Get ready for another $99 firesale on a failed tablet.
This MS branded tablet answers a question that nobody is asking. MS only hope to survive in the tablet market is to put something based off Windows8 on tablets designed by 3rd party OEM manufacters. The Samsung, LG, Panasonic, Toshiba, Lenovo, HP and Dell's of the world. Selling a 1st party MS branded tablet with a few cool new features is just asking for trouble or a device to be quickly forgotten about. With the exception of the Xbox 360 (which initially suffered horribly due to poor build quality), name one other successful hardware product MS has sold?
While you think about it.. consider this.. the MS Kin was the last piece hardware they sold. How did that go?
A big issue, one which I am seeing mentioned hardly at all, is that Microsoft is now positioning itself as both a partner with and a competitor to the OEMs. If the Surface products are any kind of success, this relationship is bound to chafe the backsides of their OEM partners. They had better be very careful about how they deal with the OEMs or they could find themselves back in hot water with the Department of Justice.
Dell's stock is down about 2% today when most tech stocks are up. MS just screwed their OEM's. Intel and the OEM's have been pimping Ultrabooks for the past year or so and now Microsoft comes out with a tablet/laptop combo that at the high end they're positioning as a laptop replacement. If you can get a tablet that also functions like a laptop with similar pricing why buy an ultrabook? I actually don't think it will work. Those that need a computer to do real work aren't going to find this small 16:9 display very useful (unless there is some way they can dock it or connect it to a display) and no way will the keyboard/trackpad match that of even a crappy laptop. Plus corporations already have relationships with these OEMs (we use Dells and HPs where I work). Are they going to dump them for Microsoft when Microsoft hasn't really proven itself on the hardware side? All because these tablets will run Office and Outlook? I think that's a tough sell.
He said Microsoft will likely have a difficult time undercutting the iPad, since Apple's iPad 2 is priced at just $399.
Let's look at the timing here. Apple will most likely stick to their current iPad release schedule. We'll probably see the 2013 iPad release in early spring.
That's just a few months after the Surface release, and guess what Apple could do. They could drop the iPad 2 price by $100 again. To $299.
The current 3rd gen Retina iPad could follow suit, dropping to $399, and the 2013 iPad would, of course, start at the $499 price point.
This is what Apple has done with previous-gen iPhone models, and it's working extremely well for them. It amortizes their development costs
over three full years, which keeps margins up in years 2 and 3 of production, it maintains sales of the older models through lower price points,
and it covers all price ranges from subsidized "free" on up.
So, early next year, the two Surface models could be facing three competitors. iPad 2 priced slightly above or exactly at the price of the "Surface Pro",
a potential Kindle Fire 2.0 priced below both Surface models, and yet another "official" Android pad also priced below both Surface models.
Not to mention the possibility that Apple may release an iPad mini, also at a relatively low price point.
Tough sledding for Microsoft. Especially after all that pent-up demand among the Windows faithful is gone.
That's the thing about Apple... it sells millions and millions of its products, yet it still makes a ton of $$$ on each unit.
If Apple ever wanted to change its game plan they could lower their margin for a year or two and drive a bunch of competitors out of business... but why change if business is good.
That's the way a monopoly works. I agree with what most of Apple does, but I wouldn't be happy about them doing that. Drop prices if you can, but not specifically to put others out of business, and then to be able to raise prices again. I wouldn't approve of that.
MS is never too late if they focus on Office and the Enterprise with their virtual monopoly of Windows OS. All they need to be is reasonably good, then change the game by creating new connectivity and sharing protocols. They need only convince corporate purchasers and corporate IT managers that you can't go wrong buying Microsft.
The best Apple and others can do is be enterprise compatible; Microsoft defines the enterprise.
Depending on what part of the enterprise you're talking about, it isn't always true anymore.
True.... or it's an ultrabook with a touchscreen and a removable keyboard.
I'm speaking, of course, about the Windows 8 Pro version. For those who need full Windows on a thin and light device... it's a pretty good idea. And let's face it... there are a lot of people who still use Windows.
The Windows RT version is rubbish, however... and I see no point in buying a Windows RT tablet over an iPad.
So what's the point of all these Ultrabooks Intel is pushing then?
that's for the intel version, which would make it just about as expensive as an ipad, fully loaded, which probably wouldnt do half of what this windows model would on an intel chip... but seeing is believing. balls in microsofts court.
A loaded iPad WiFi+Cellular is $829,
An entry MBA is $999.
A loaded MBA is $2,199 (with capabilities far in excess of the Intel Surface).
I suspect that the entry MBA will exceed the top-speced Intel Surface and any equivalently-priced UltraBook.
So, I suspect that the very best price/performance enterprise solution for running mobile full Windows is the MBA!
...and no waiting, no surprises, no conversion, no need to tolerate/disable Metro...
Why would you be interested in a product, whose ENTIRE EXISTENCE is motivated by a REACTION to being left behind by changing market forces?
Everything Windows 8 is, everything this device is, everything behind Microsoft's current "strategy", demonstrates this basic premise. Which is why none of what they're doing actually makes any sense. It doesn't make any sense because the original source isn't Microsoft's *own* vision. The original source is Apple's control of the industry's agenda.
A lot of that is true. Win8 is their reaction to iOS, and particularly the iPad.
There has now been a lot of articles written about this new development, and most of them are negative in some way.
Microsoft knows very well that this is their Hail Mary pass. If they didn't get it right this time, and so get enough sales to be credible, they won't get another chance. As far as the majority of computer buyers go, they'll be forced into buying machines with Win8. Big business and government won't. But as far as tablets and phones go, there's a long way for them to go before they can prove their competitiveness.
If these sell well enough (several million a quarter), the OEMs will see a future with it. If not, it's gone, no matter how much money Microsoft is willing to lose over it.
I have to say I am far more impressed with the Surface after watching the keynote than I was from reading the pundit comments. I think the Pro will kill the Ultra book market and cannibalize the laptop market. I doubt the RT version will do much of anything, especially if it does not have cellular connectivity. You can get bluetooth keyboards for the iPad now. I am sure before the release of the RT version you will be able to get a similar snap magnetic keyboard for the iPad from someone.
The demo was weak and they really did not show much and that does not bode well. You have to ask the question, why did they announce this now when they could have waited and provided a more convincing hands on demo later. Maybe they should have set this all up with the announcement of Windows 8 ship date. They could have reviewed the new Windows 8, done some demos announced the ship date and then acted like that was the big announcement. Then done a "oh by the way" we have this new hardware called Surface that makes Windows 8 make a whole lot more sense.
[...] Intel and the OEM's have been pimping Ultrabooks for the past year or so and now Microsoft comes out with a tablet/laptop combo that at the high end they're positioning as a laptop replacement. If you can get a tablet that also functions like a laptop with similar pricing why buy an ultra book? [...]
This all smells like a last-resort move by Microsoft. The only reason for burning their Ultrabook hardware partners that badly is because there's no other way to fight the MacBook Air. That's right. The Surface is up against the MBA as well as the iPad. The keyboard-case is a dead giveaway that Microsoft has given up on the whole Ultrabook concept.
The Ultrabook Initiative has had precious little success even against last year's MacBook Airs at their old price points. And Apple has just announced upgraded MacBook Air models across the board, with $100 price drops on three of the four models. (And you'd better believe that Apple is maintaining their hardware margins even with the lower price points.)
Maybe Intel should ask for a refund on their $300 million Ultrabook Initiative seed money. Because the Dells and Asus' of the world haven't held up their end of the bargain. Intel could use that money to kick start a Perimeter Venting Fan Initiative or something.
The Microsoft Surface tablet has been announced. I think this is a great thing for Linux. Why? Microsoft has now entered into direct competition with all of the manufacturers who buy Microsoft Windows for their products. If this product actually works well, or as well as Windows 7 on other devices, manufacturers will have an incentive to create more machines running Linux. If they can get together and decide to offer Ubuntu on more machines to save money, Linux could take off. I know that manufacturers must pay Canonical to do that but it is probably cheaper than using Windows.
Imagine if Ubuntu were an option on all of the machines they sell. In the build your own computer sections of both Dell and HP, there is always a section that offers the choices of which version of Windows 7 to pick. What if they decided to put Ubuntu in that section as the free choice and added $50 to choose the very basic version of Windows 7? They could put a link by Ubuntu to open a pop-up window explaining what Ubuntu could do for them. I would love to write the copy for that page. I'd do it for free.
What do you think? Would it be worth the efforts of computer manufacturers to offer Ubuntu as a free choice on their machines? This seems like the best way to recover potential losses from Microsoft selling their own hardware. Tit for tat.
MS is never too late if they focus on Office and the Enterprise with their virtual monopoly of Windows OS. All they need to be is reasonably good, then change the game by creating new connectivity and sharing protocols. They need only convince corporate purchasers and corporate IT managers that you can't go wrong buying Microsft.
The best Apple and others can do is be enterprise compatible; Microsoft defines the enterprise.
Depending on what part of the enterprise you're talking about, it isn't always true anymore.
Microsoft is losing their grip, and they know it.
+1
Microsoft hasn't sold a single piece of desktop hardware into the enterprise. you think Dell and HP and Lenovo sales orgs are committing harikari over this? nah... the lunches will get bigger, and the swag swaggier...
Apple on the other hand sold macs and iPhones for years before the iPad.... the HW 'halo' will be there. an iPad is easy to support if you've already started supporting iPhones.
As inferred above... If Microsoft made a 'Exchange Appliance' or a 'Bing Appliance' or a 'Office 365 Gateway' server that encorporated enterprise support, scalability and was costed to be basically 'free hardware' (microsoft makes money selling software).... Then Dell, HPQ, Google, and others (Oracle) would be sweating it.
The desktop.... not so much. It's either a rainbow of OEM's now, or there is a stranglehold deal with configuration builds, OS support, sparing/depot, etc. - and no 'quick' wins.
Bottom line... who wins the corporate suite will own the enterprise. If Microsoft can show ROI with their solution that is at least 50% better than the current enterprise desktop/mobile Lenovo/Dell/HP and Apple AND 'sexy' too (think Blackberry.... it didn't come in via corporate purchasing or IT... the CEO was shamed at some conference by someone 'running their business' using a crackberry, and the next day, a BES server was being ordered....;-) ), it has a chance... if not... most will ignore it like Microsoft Bob, and WinPhone 5/6/7, Business may be dumb... but they are predictable.
Personally... this looks like the board said... "We spent Billions on Surface and chucked it as a 'demo'. Elop failed us at Nokia. and we are losing the tablet wars depending on Asus and LG... We ate Apples Lunch once... Do it AGAIN! Get something out there NOW, or Ballmer, yours is the next head on a Pike on Game of Thrones... and it won't be a prop!!!"
I have to say I am far more impressed with the Surface after watching the keynote than I was from reading the pundit comments. I think the Pro will kill the Ultra book market and cannibalize the laptop market. I doubt the RT version will do much of anything, especially if it does not have cellular connectivity. You can get bluetooth keyboards for the iPad now. I am sure before the release of the RT version you will be able to get a similar snap magnetic keyboard for the iPad from someone.
The demo was weak and they really did not show much and that does not bode well. You have to ask the question, why did they announce this now when they could have waited and provided a more convincing hands on demo later. Maybe they should have set this all up with the announcement of Windows 8 ship date. They could have reviewed the new Windows 8, done some demos announced the ship date and then acted like that was the big announcement. Then done a "oh by the way" we have this new hardware called Surface that makes Windows 8 make a whole lot more sense.
Impressed with what? As you say, the demo was weak. Very weak. They spent 20 times as many minutes talking about the cover/keyboards than software. They spent 15 times as much on the construction, and ten times as much on the kickstand.
In fact, all of their talk about software took about one minute altogether. About 30 seconds on Netflix. About 20 seconds on showing how Word would work with the 22% camera angle when doing an interview, and about 10 seconds on how their media from Xbox would all work. That was it!
That's a very big problem, and something that people need to think about. How is software development going? Not very well, from that demo. And as we all know; "it's the software, stupid!"
1) Wait until they had a fully-baked (speced) and demonstrable solution before announcing anything (then announce everything: including price, battery, availability)
2) Build minimum "reference" designs to be manufactured (equaled or exceeded) by theirOEM Partners
3) Offer incentives to theirOEM Partners-- such as special advertising $, marketing/distribution $, Windows/Office Software price tiers for these products, sell through MS online and physical stores
4) Demonstrate to pundits, observers, consumers, enterprise customers, OEM partners, alike -- that MS and its OEM Partners offer and support the best solutions available.
...showing everyone that MS has your back and offers the portal to the future
....remembering that: "it takes two -- to Tango"
...Yeah, that's the way an astute and agile company would parlay their strengths!
The Microsoft Surface tablet has been announced. I think this is a great thing for Linux. Why? Microsoft has now entered into direct competition with all of the manufacturers who buy Microsoft Windows for their products. If this product actually works well, or as well as Windows 7 on other devices, manufacturers will have an incentive to create more machines running Linux. If they can get together and decide to offer Ubuntu on more machines to save money, Linux could take off. I know that manufacturers must pay Canonical to do that but it is probably cheaper than using Windows.
Imagine if Ubuntu were an option on all of the machines they sell. In the build your own computer sections of both Dell and HP, there is always a section that offers the choices of which version of Windows 7 to pick. What if they decided to put Ubuntu in that section as the free choice and added $50 to choose the very basic version of Windows 7? They could put a link by Ubuntu to open a pop-up window explaining what Ubuntu could do for them. I would love to write the copy for that page. I'd do it for free.
What do you think? Would it be worth the efforts of computer manufacturers to offer Ubuntu as a free choice on their machines? This seems like the best way to recover potential losses from Microsoft selling their own hardware. Tit for tat.
Honestly, I find sites like Slashdot sad since they still beat the "open source is the future" and "Linux on desktop is the future" drum for over 15 years. I have been hearing about Linux on desktop since the late 90s, and well, it will never catch on. People prefer things to just work straight out of the box and not get inundated with details even if that means paying a premium price a la Apple.
Microsoft hasn't sold a single piece of desktop hardware into the enterprise. you think Dell and HP and Lenovo sales orgs are committing harikari over this? nah... the lunches will get bigger, and the swag swaggier...
Apple on the other hand sold macs and iPhones for years before the iPad.... the HW 'halo' will be there. an iPad is easy to support if you've already started supporting iPhones.
As inferred above... If Microsoft made a 'Exchange Appliance' or a 'Bing Appliance' or a 'Office 365 Gateway' server that encorporated enterprise support, scalability and was costed to be basically 'free hardware' (microsoft makes money selling software).... Then Dell, HPQ, Google, and others (Oracle) would be sweating it.
The desktop.... not so much. It's either a rainbow of OEM's now, or there is a stranglehold deal with configuration builds, OS support, sparing/depot, etc. - and no 'quick' wins.
Bottom line... who wins the corporate suite will own the enterprise. If Microsoft can show ROI with their solution that is at least 50% better than the current enterprise desktop/mobile Lenovo/Dell/HP and Apple AND 'sexy' too (think Blackberry.... it didn't come in via corporate purchasing or IT... the CEO was shamed at some conference by someone 'running their business' using a crackberry, and the next day, a BES server was being ordered....;-) ), it has a chance... if not... most will ignore it like Microsoft Bob, and WinPhone 5/6/7, Business may be dumb... but they are predictable.
Personally... this looks like the board said... "We spent Billions on Surface and chucked it as a 'demo'. Elop failed us at Nokia. and we are losing the tablet wars depending on Asus and LG... We ate Apples Lunch once... Do it AGAIN! Get something out there NOW, or Ballmer, yours is the next head on a Pike on Game of Thrones... and it won't be a prop!!!"
That's pretty much all true. This is a last resort for Microsoft, and the leadership team as well. It's been thought that Steven Sinofsky was the replacement for Steve Ballmer, should he leave, or be replaced. But Sinofsky has put his stamp on this. If it fails, along with another cold reception for Win 8 in general, his place may not be secure either. Remember that he was also responsible for Longhorn and Vista.
1) Wait until they had a fully-baked (speced) and demonstrable solution before announcing anything (then announce everything: including price, battery, availability)
2) Build minimum "reference" designs to be manufactured (equaled or exceeded) by their OEM Partners
3) Offer incentives to their OEM Partners -- such as special advertising $, marketing/distribution $, Windows/Office Software price tiers for these products, sell through MS online and physical stores
4) Demonstrate to pundits, observers, consumers, enterprise customers, OEM partners, alike -- that MS and its OEM Partners offer and support the best solutions available.
...showing everyone that MS has your back and offers the portal to the future
....remembering that: "it takes two -- to Tango"
...Yeah, that's the way an astute and agile company would parlay their strengths!
Yeah, easy for you to say. But this is Microsoft we're talking about. The company run by a committee ruled by the Windows and Office divisions.
This all smells like a last-resort move by Microsoft. The only reason for burning their Ultrabook hardware partners that badly is because there's no other way to fight the MacBook Air. That's right. The Surface is up against the MBA as well as the iPad. The keyboard-case is a dead giveaway that Microsoft has given up on the whole Ultrabook concept.
The Ultrabook Initiative has had precious little success even against last year's MacBook Airs at their old price points. And Apple has just announced upgraded MacBook Air models across the board, with $100 price drops on three of the four models. (And you'd better believe that Apple is maintaining their hardware margins even with the lower price points.)
Maybe Intel should ask for a refund on their $300 million Ultrabook Initiative seed money. Because the Dells and Asus' of the world haven't held up their end of the bargain. Intel could use that money to kick start a Perimeter Venting Fan Initiative or something.
+1
and you add the other data point.... Too many masters... Intel on top of Microsoft, and the boards of 10 odd corporations who must balance ability to compete in a market vs make money for investors...
Which if you have 30 ultrabooks based on WinTel... you end up with a 'race to the bottom.' with a Intel Tax and a Microsoft tax of $100+ per device, where as Apple has $80+ of that on OS savings plus another $100 in savings on components... Apple's making at least $200 purely on efficiencies of controlling the value change (see today's asymco.com). and they have better patents (their OS biz model is not designed to be shared, like Android or Windows). Not only does Apple get a head start (defining the market), but they get better gas mileage (efficiencies in the model), and they don't have to share the better parts of their car with others, and can have the cops pull over anyone they think 'copied' a part they invented.
Comments
True.... or it's an ultrabook with a touchscreen and a removable keyboard.
I'm speaking, of course, about the Windows 8 Pro version. For those who need full Windows on a thin and light device... it's a pretty good idea. And let's face it... there are a lot of people who still use Windows.
The Windows RT version is rubbish, however... and I see no point in buying a Windows RT tablet over an iPad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna
I wouldn't say 'no way'. They could, especially if you group both models together. There are some folks that do want the tablet form with 'real computer' parts and this Pro model might attract them. And thus they might get that 1/3. Higher than that, I'm doubting until the app market is better, especially for the Consumer models.
I'll say no way. Hell they wont sell 1/10th of what the iPad does. I dont see this doing any better than the Blackberry Playbook or HP/Palm Touchpad. Get ready for another $99 firesale on a failed tablet.
This MS branded tablet answers a question that nobody is asking. MS only hope to survive in the tablet market is to put something based off Windows8 on tablets designed by 3rd party OEM manufacters. The Samsung, LG, Panasonic, Toshiba, Lenovo, HP and Dell's of the world. Selling a 1st party MS branded tablet with a few cool new features is just asking for trouble or a device to be quickly forgotten about. With the exception of the Xbox 360 (which initially suffered horribly due to poor build quality), name one other successful hardware product MS has sold?
While you think about it.. consider this.. the MS Kin was the last piece hardware they sold. How did that go?
Won't it be awkward holding the tablet to compensate for the 22 degree angle of the camera?
Won't it be less usable than a traditional laptop while sitting in coach with the seat in front of you all the way back?
How is this any different, more believable, more attainable than when RIM introduced the PlayBook a couple years ago?
Will the RT version run full Windows Office?
Where are the manufacturing facilities and the supply chain necessary to manufacture these in any meaningful quantity?
When will these be available, in reasonable quantity and quality, to compete with today's iPad or today's MacBook Air?
As a consumer, why would you purchase this over iPad?
From the perspective of IT, why would you budget/recommend this over an UltraBook, MBA or an iPad?
If you are a Windows OEM what would you do?
Dictated on my iPad
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss
A big issue, one which I am seeing mentioned hardly at all, is that Microsoft is now positioning itself as both a partner with and a competitor to the OEMs. If the Surface products are any kind of success, this relationship is bound to chafe the backsides of their OEM partners. They had better be very careful about how they deal with the OEMs or they could find themselves back in hot water with the Department of Justice.
Dell's stock is down about 2% today when most tech stocks are up. MS just screwed their OEM's. Intel and the OEM's have been pimping Ultrabooks for the past year or so and now Microsoft comes out with a tablet/laptop combo that at the high end they're positioning as a laptop replacement. If you can get a tablet that also functions like a laptop with similar pricing why buy an ultrabook? I actually don't think it will work. Those that need a computer to do real work aren't going to find this small 16:9 display very useful (unless there is some way they can dock it or connect it to a display) and no way will the keyboard/trackpad match that of even a crappy laptop. Plus corporations already have relationships with these OEMs (we use Dells and HPs where I work). Are they going to dump them for Microsoft when Microsoft hasn't really proven itself on the hardware side? All because these tablets will run Office and Outlook? I think that's a tough sell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
He said Microsoft will likely have a difficult time undercutting the iPad, since Apple's iPad 2 is priced at just $399.
Let's look at the timing here. Apple will most likely stick to their current iPad release schedule. We'll probably see the 2013 iPad release in early spring.
That's just a few months after the Surface release, and guess what Apple could do. They could drop the iPad 2 price by $100 again. To $299.
The current 3rd gen Retina iPad could follow suit, dropping to $399, and the 2013 iPad would, of course, start at the $499 price point.
This is what Apple has done with previous-gen iPhone models, and it's working extremely well for them. It amortizes their development costs
over three full years, which keeps margins up in years 2 and 3 of production, it maintains sales of the older models through lower price points,
and it covers all price ranges from subsidized "free" on up.
So, early next year, the two Surface models could be facing three competitors. iPad 2 priced slightly above or exactly at the price of the "Surface Pro",
a potential Kindle Fire 2.0 priced below both Surface models, and yet another "official" Android pad also priced below both Surface models.
Not to mention the possibility that Apple may release an iPad mini, also at a relatively low price point.
Tough sledding for Microsoft. Especially after all that pent-up demand among the Windows faithful is gone.
That's the way a monopoly works. I agree with what most of Apple does, but I wouldn't be happy about them doing that. Drop prices if you can, but not specifically to put others out of business, and then to be able to raise prices again. I wouldn't approve of that.
Depending on what part of the enterprise you're talking about, it isn't always true anymore.
Microsoft is losing their grip, and they know it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip
True.... or it's an ultrabook with a touchscreen and a removable keyboard.
I'm speaking, of course, about the Windows 8 Pro version. For those who need full Windows on a thin and light device... it's a pretty good idea. And let's face it... there are a lot of people who still use Windows.
The Windows RT version is rubbish, however... and I see no point in buying a Windows RT tablet over an iPad.
So what's the point of all these Ultrabooks Intel is pushing then?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreytgilbert
that's for the intel version, which would make it just about as expensive as an ipad, fully loaded, which probably wouldnt do half of what this windows model would on an intel chip... but seeing is believing. balls in microsofts court.
A loaded iPad WiFi+Cellular is $829,
An entry MBA is $999.
A loaded MBA is $2,199 (with capabilities far in excess of the Intel Surface).
I suspect that the entry MBA will exceed the top-speced Intel Surface and any equivalently-priced UltraBook.
So, I suspect that the very best price/performance enterprise solution for running mobile full Windows is the MBA!
...and no waiting, no surprises, no conversion, no need to tolerate/disable Metro...
Where am I wrong?
A lot of that is true. Win8 is their reaction to iOS, and particularly the iPad.
There has now been a lot of articles written about this new development, and most of them are negative in some way.
Microsoft knows very well that this is their Hail Mary pass. If they didn't get it right this time, and so get enough sales to be credible, they won't get another chance. As far as the majority of computer buyers go, they'll be forced into buying machines with Win8. Big business and government won't. But as far as tablets and phones go, there's a long way for them to go before they can prove their competitiveness.
If these sell well enough (several million a quarter), the OEMs will see a future with it. If not, it's gone, no matter how much money Microsoft is willing to lose over it.
I have to say I am far more impressed with the Surface after watching the keynote than I was from reading the pundit comments. I think the Pro will kill the Ultra book market and cannibalize the laptop market. I doubt the RT version will do much of anything, especially if it does not have cellular connectivity. You can get bluetooth keyboards for the iPad now. I am sure before the release of the RT version you will be able to get a similar snap magnetic keyboard for the iPad from someone.
The demo was weak and they really did not show much and that does not bode well. You have to ask the question, why did they announce this now when they could have waited and provided a more convincing hands on demo later. Maybe they should have set this all up with the announcement of Windows 8 ship date. They could have reviewed the new Windows 8, done some demos announced the ship date and then acted like that was the big announcement. Then done a "oh by the way" we have this new hardware called Surface that makes Windows 8 make a whole lot more sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
[...] Intel and the OEM's have been pimping Ultrabooks for the past year or so and now Microsoft comes out with a tablet/laptop combo that at the high end they're positioning as a laptop replacement. If you can get a tablet that also functions like a laptop with similar pricing why buy an ultra book? [...]
This all smells like a last-resort move by Microsoft. The only reason for burning their Ultrabook hardware partners that badly is because there's no other way to fight the MacBook Air. That's right. The Surface is up against the MBA as well as the iPad. The keyboard-case is a dead giveaway that Microsoft has given up on the whole Ultrabook concept.
The Ultrabook Initiative has had precious little success even against last year's MacBook Airs at their old price points. And Apple has just announced upgraded MacBook Air models across the board, with $100 price drops on three of the four models. (And you'd better believe that Apple is maintaining their hardware margins even with the lower price points.)
Maybe Intel should ask for a refund on their $300 million Ultrabook Initiative seed money. Because the Dells and Asus' of the world haven't held up their end of the bargain. Intel could use that money to kick start a Perimeter Venting Fan Initiative or something.
The Microsoft Surface tablet has been announced. I think this is a great thing for Linux. Why? Microsoft has now entered into direct competition with all of the manufacturers who buy Microsoft Windows for their products. If this product actually works well, or as well as Windows 7 on other devices, manufacturers will have an incentive to create more machines running Linux. If they can get together and decide to offer Ubuntu on more machines to save money, Linux could take off. I know that manufacturers must pay Canonical to do that but it is probably cheaper than using Windows.
Imagine if Ubuntu were an option on all of the machines they sell. In the build your own computer sections of both Dell and HP, there is always a section that offers the choices of which version of Windows 7 to pick. What if they decided to put Ubuntu in that section as the free choice and added $50 to choose the very basic version of Windows 7? They could put a link by Ubuntu to open a pop-up window explaining what Ubuntu could do for them. I would love to write the copy for that page. I'd do it for free.
What do you think? Would it be worth the efforts of computer manufacturers to offer Ubuntu as a free choice on their machines? This seems like the best way to recover potential losses from Microsoft selling their own hardware. Tit for tat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman
MS is never too late if they focus on Office and the Enterprise with their virtual monopoly of Windows OS. All they need to be is reasonably good, then change the game by creating new connectivity and sharing protocols. They need only convince corporate purchasers and corporate IT managers that you can't go wrong buying Microsft.
The best Apple and others can do is be enterprise compatible; Microsoft defines the enterprise.
Depending on what part of the enterprise you're talking about, it isn't always true anymore.
Microsoft is losing their grip, and they know it.
+1
Microsoft hasn't sold a single piece of desktop hardware into the enterprise. you think Dell and HP and Lenovo sales orgs are committing harikari over this? nah... the lunches will get bigger, and the swag swaggier...
Apple on the other hand sold macs and iPhones for years before the iPad.... the HW 'halo' will be there. an iPad is easy to support if you've already started supporting iPhones.
As inferred above... If Microsoft made a 'Exchange Appliance' or a 'Bing Appliance' or a 'Office 365 Gateway' server that encorporated enterprise support, scalability and was costed to be basically 'free hardware' (microsoft makes money selling software).... Then Dell, HPQ, Google, and others (Oracle) would be sweating it.
The desktop.... not so much. It's either a rainbow of OEM's now, or there is a stranglehold deal with configuration builds, OS support, sparing/depot, etc. - and no 'quick' wins.
Bottom line... who wins the corporate suite will own the enterprise. If Microsoft can show ROI with their solution that is at least 50% better than the current enterprise desktop/mobile Lenovo/Dell/HP and Apple AND 'sexy' too (think Blackberry.... it didn't come in via corporate purchasing or IT... the CEO was shamed at some conference by someone 'running their business' using a crackberry, and the next day, a BES server was being ordered....;-) ), it has a chance... if not... most will ignore it like Microsoft Bob, and WinPhone 5/6/7, Business may be dumb... but they are predictable.
Personally... this looks like the board said... "We spent Billions on Surface and chucked it as a 'demo'. Elop failed us at Nokia. and we are losing the tablet wars depending on Asus and LG... We ate Apples Lunch once... Do it AGAIN! Get something out there NOW, or Ballmer, yours is the next head on a Pike on Game of Thrones... and it won't be a prop!!!"
Impressed with what? As you say, the demo was weak. Very weak. They spent 20 times as many minutes talking about the cover/keyboards than software. They spent 15 times as much on the construction, and ten times as much on the kickstand.
In fact, all of their talk about software took about one minute altogether. About 30 seconds on Netflix. About 20 seconds on showing how Word would work with the 22% camera angle when doing an interview, and about 10 seconds on how their media from Xbox would all work. That was it!
That's a very big problem, and something that people need to think about. How is software development going? Not very well, from that demo. And as we all know; "it's the software, stupid!"
What MS should have done:
1) Wait until they had a fully-baked (speced) and demonstrable solution before announcing anything (then announce everything: including price, battery, availability)
2) Build minimum "reference" designs to be manufactured (equaled or exceeded) by their OEM Partners
3) Offer incentives to their OEM Partners -- such as special advertising $, marketing/distribution $, Windows/Office Software price tiers for these products, sell through MS online and physical stores
4) Demonstrate to pundits, observers, consumers, enterprise customers, OEM partners, alike -- that MS and its OEM Partners offer and support the best solutions available.
...showing everyone that MS has your back and offers the portal to the future
....remembering that: "it takes two -- to Tango"
...Yeah, that's the way an astute and agile company would parlay their strengths!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels
The Microsoft Surface tablet has been announced. I think this is a great thing for Linux. Why? Microsoft has now entered into direct competition with all of the manufacturers who buy Microsoft Windows for their products. If this product actually works well, or as well as Windows 7 on other devices, manufacturers will have an incentive to create more machines running Linux. If they can get together and decide to offer Ubuntu on more machines to save money, Linux could take off. I know that manufacturers must pay Canonical to do that but it is probably cheaper than using Windows.
Imagine if Ubuntu were an option on all of the machines they sell. In the build your own computer sections of both Dell and HP, there is always a section that offers the choices of which version of Windows 7 to pick. What if they decided to put Ubuntu in that section as the free choice and added $50 to choose the very basic version of Windows 7? They could put a link by Ubuntu to open a pop-up window explaining what Ubuntu could do for them. I would love to write the copy for that page. I'd do it for free.
What do you think? Would it be worth the efforts of computer manufacturers to offer Ubuntu as a free choice on their machines? This seems like the best way to recover potential losses from Microsoft selling their own hardware. Tit for tat.
Honestly, I find sites like Slashdot sad since they still beat the "open source is the future" and "Linux on desktop is the future" drum for over 15 years. I have been hearing about Linux on desktop since the late 90s, and well, it will never catch on. People prefer things to just work straight out of the box and not get inundated with details even if that means paying a premium price a la Apple.
That's pretty much all true. This is a last resort for Microsoft, and the leadership team as well. It's been thought that Steven Sinofsky was the replacement for Steve Ballmer, should he leave, or be replaced. But Sinofsky has put his stamp on this. If it fails, along with another cold reception for Win 8 in general, his place may not be secure either. Remember that he was also responsible for Longhorn and Vista.
Yeah, easy for you to say. But this is Microsoft we're talking about. The company run by a committee ruled by the Windows and Office divisions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid
This all smells like a last-resort move by Microsoft. The only reason for burning their Ultrabook hardware partners that badly is because there's no other way to fight the MacBook Air. That's right. The Surface is up against the MBA as well as the iPad. The keyboard-case is a dead giveaway that Microsoft has given up on the whole Ultrabook concept.
The Ultrabook Initiative has had precious little success even against last year's MacBook Airs at their old price points. And Apple has just announced upgraded MacBook Air models across the board, with $100 price drops on three of the four models. (And you'd better believe that Apple is maintaining their hardware margins even with the lower price points.)
Maybe Intel should ask for a refund on their $300 million Ultrabook Initiative seed money. Because the Dells and Asus' of the world haven't held up their end of the bargain. Intel could use that money to kick start a Perimeter Venting Fan Initiative or something.
+1
and you add the other data point.... Too many masters... Intel on top of Microsoft, and the boards of 10 odd corporations who must balance ability to compete in a market vs make money for investors...
Which if you have 30 ultrabooks based on WinTel... you end up with a 'race to the bottom.' with a Intel Tax and a Microsoft tax of $100+ per device, where as Apple has $80+ of that on OS savings plus another $100 in savings on components... Apple's making at least $200 purely on efficiencies of controlling the value change (see today's asymco.com). and they have better patents (their OS biz model is not designed to be shared, like Android or Windows). Not only does Apple get a head start (defining the market), but they get better gas mileage (efficiencies in the model), and they don't have to share the better parts of their car with others, and can have the cops pull over anyone they think 'copied' a part they invented.
Heaven help the TV market;-)