Kent was speaking specifically of the Pro version, which has an i5. That will run the desktop and be compatiblle w/your old software. The RT versions are the ones that won't be. You can still probably play WoW and Diablo 3 on the Surface Pro. It plays fine on my wife's 2011 MBA
You really need to read the entire post, and read it carefully. The i5, which model of we have no idea, is just one small part of the problem. All of the old problems remain, but are magnified.
You really need to read the entire post, and read it carefully. The i5, which model of we have no idea, is just one small part of the problem. All of the old problems remain, but are magnified.
I did. Your post was going on about the things we don't know. We DO know that Windows RT will NOT run your old programs. We DO know that Windows 8 (for Intel chips and AMD) will run your old programs. now whetehr it will run them WELL will depend on how strong the processor is, hwo much RAM, what video card, which are currently unknowns. But you will not run into a brick wall that says you are not allowed to run that here, like you will running the ARM processor. People ran Windows on netbooks w/smaller screens all the time. It may not be a preference, but it is possible. The 10.6" screen is about the size of the 11" MBA. People do all kinds of stuff on those. Do I want to know more detailed specs? Absolutely. Until we do, you really cant' say one way or the otehr how well the Intel version will run those programs, but it IS capable of running them.
I did. Your post was going on about the things we don't know. We DO know that Windows RT will NOT run your old programs. We DO know that Windows 8 (for Intel chips and AMD) will run your old programs. now whetehr it will run them WELL will depend on how strong the processor is, hwo much RAM, what video card, which are currently unknowns. But you will not run into a brick wall that says you are not allowed to run that here, like you will running the ARM processor. People ran Windows on netbooks w/smaller screens all the time. It may not be a preference, but it is possible. The 10.6" screen is about the size of the 11" MBA. People do all kinds of stuff on those. Do I want to know more detailed specs? Absolutely. Until we do, you really cant' say one way or the otehr how well the Intel version will run those programs, but it IS capable of running them.
That was my point. Relax.
We know a lot of what I said, including the history, which you seem to want to ignore, but which is very important.
So how will MS achieve any real differentiation with this . . . thing . . . among the mass of other OEM Windows 8 tablets?
Or do they plan on producing these things exclusively? What is the actual, visible draw from the average consumer's perspective?
Does MS think that slapping their logo on it will achieve any measurable differentiation for them? Probably not much more than Google with their Nexus line, which aint much.
I just don't see MS or their OEMs having a fun time of it in the market side-by-side:
Microsoft-branded tablet that runs Windows.
But this *other* tablet runs "Microsoft Windows" too.
People complain about Apple fanboys but check out the tech blogs with M$ fanboys drooling over this tablet as if it was the greatest device ever conceived. Even though M$ has released hardly any spec information, nothing on battery life, screen resolution, price, availability. But according to the M$ sheep this product will be so awesome everyone will be ditching their iPads for it. And they accuse us of drinking the kool-aid.
So how will MS achieve any real differentiation with this . . . thing . . . among the mass of other OEM Windows 8 tablets?
Or do they plan on producing these things exclusively? What is the actual, visible draw from the average consumer's perspective?
Does MS think that slapping their logo on it will achieve any measurable differentiation for them? Probably not much more than Google with their Nexus line, which aint much.
I just don't see MS or their OEMs having a fun time of it in the market side-by-side:
Microsoft-branded tablet that runs Windows.
But this *other* tablet runs "Microsoft Windows" too.
Not good.
I've heard M$ will be selling them online and in their stores only.
This all smells like a last-resort move by Microsoft. The only reason for burning their Ultrabook hardware partners that badly is because there's no other way to fight the MacBook Air. That's right. The Surface is up against the MBA as well as the iPad. The keyboard-case is a dead giveaway that Microsoft has given up on the whole Ultrabook concept.
The Ultrabook Initiative has had precious little success even against last year's MacBook Airs at their old price points. And Apple has just announced upgraded MacBook Air models across the board, with $100 price drops on three of the four models. (And you'd better believe that Apple is maintaining their hardware margins even with the lower price points.)
Maybe Intel should ask for a refund on their $300 million Ultrabook Initiative seed money. Because the Dells and Asus' of the world haven't held up their end of the bargain. Intel could use that money to kick start a Perimeter Venting Fan Initiative or something.
Ultrabooks failed because the majority of Windows laptop buyers have been conditioned to cheap laptops. They're used to spending $500-600 (or less on a laptop), not $1,000+ on an Ultrabook. The top 2 selling laptops at bestbuy.com are less than $400. Windows RT (stupidest name ever) will be price competitive with other tablets but what compelling reason would someone buy it over an iPad? And if the pro version is priced similar to Ultrabooks good luck selling it.
This is still the Microsoft of the 90's and 00's. Anybody get that 'soon to be released' version of Longhorn? Given themselves 6 months (-/+) to get their 'holiday' version out, and 9 months for a 'corporate' version is all about them getting 'ahead' of the apple release cycle (iPhone in the fall, iPad in the spring) in words.
I think the key thing is that MS will have all the F1xxx corporations at least buy a fleet of a couple hundred to test out, and there semi-pro FanBoi's of the Windows ilk just as Boiish as Apple's ... although the lines are much shorter;-). I see it selling a million once it releases, and Microsoft hoping beyond hope to find 'switchers' to base on this.
Then they find a message to support their keyword 'productive.' iPads are for consumers.... Surface tablets are for 'producers' (a much more macho verb)... Who want's to be a 'sheep' when you can be the Farmer?
I think everyone can say that iPads are very 'producer' friendly... it's just that 90% of the world's consumers are... information... 'consumers' (I let writers write books... I don't need a keyboard to read them).
Apple's also been building OSes, since 76... Even Microsoft didn't build it's Pc-dOS in 81... Gates/Ballmer/Allen bought it, and built it to support IBM's PC. In short, MS's DNA is supporting a larger 'manufacturer' of HW, and when it switched over to being the 'master' of the relationship (supplying any OEM's with the OS), they really didn't care about usability/quality, or even more so, architectural elegance. Xbox not withstanding.
Apple has been designing HW and SW in parallel for 37 years, with the 'hiatus' while Jobs was out effectively skunkworking the 'NeXT' Mac platform (pun intended). Microsoft's concern about quality is laughable, when looking at their definition of user experiential quality (classic: to 'stop' the computer... you go to the 'start' menu).
There is no 'bet the business' here in the 'Surface.' In fact, I see no such 'laser focus' as I see in quality. The fact that they built it on 2 OSes running on 2 chip architectures with 2 UIs (keyboard and stylus) basically have them hedging the their bets on this, let alone their classic Intel Iron Line. I can't see how they can focus on HW build quality when they have so many variables in the mix.
To complete the analogy above.... not only are they building Fords, but they are building Lincoln's too, using a different engine and different wiring harness to the dashboard, and supporting different steering devices on each.
Yeah, the bottom line is that Windows 8 and Windows RT are in no way, shape, or form, "built for" the Surface tablets. They're just "tablet-shaped" PCs. Windows has to work with every PC. Microsoft doesn't integrate software and hardware into a single product vision.
Apple can decide it wants to support retina display hardware, and boom! OSX supports retina. New Thunderbolt connector? Boom! Drivers aren't even something you have to think about. It just works. Switch from ATI to nvidia video chips? Seamless. Invisible. The user doesn't even have to do anything. It just works.
I can empathize with PC users who are not only so comfortable with PCs and computers, they wouldn't f'n know what to do if you took away their C:\ prompt, their BSOD, and their registry editor. Also Google, used to find out why they're getting some weird DLL conflict while installing new drivers (my favorite stupid Windows prompt is, "A newer version of XYZ.dll is installed, do you want to overwrite this?" as if users would know). Windows is familiar, comfortable for them. Some can make the transition into the post-PC era, while others cannot. Not without their Windows "safety blankey."
And as for producer vs consumer... Windows fans will probably continue to push that BS years from now, much like Google lovers and their antennagate. Meanwhile, in the real world, Avid now has a pretty awesome NLE for iPad....
Gizmodo is drinking the M$ kool-aid. Amazing how people can go apeshit over something that they've had zero time to play around with because it doesn't exist yet. Basically they're drooling over a concept that may or may not prove to be successful, and expecting Tim Cook to respond in kind.
Microsoft themselves quoted this as being 'around about ultra book' pricing levels. That's one damn expensive tablet.
I noticed that, although Microsoft tried to make the keynote 'Apple-like' the thing was very poorly done. The Surface shitting itself in the first few minutes of the demonstration didn't impress many either.
I did like some of the ideas they've implemented, and kudos to them for not doing an outright Samsung, but it may not be enough.
Time will tell.
Give them a break.
Jobs presented "all of web" on first iPad while web page he was browsing was showing big ugly "missing Flash plugin" square in the middle of the screen.
Not that it hurt much... but it can happen even to the best of the best.
Jobs presented "all of web" on first iPad while web page he was browsing was showing big ugly "missing Flash plugin" square in the middle of the screen.
Not that it hurt much... but it can happen even to the best of the best.
Missing sections in a webpage devoted to advertisements could technically be construed as a bonus!
It's also a lot different than having your device totally lock-up minutes into a demonstration, forcing you to swap to an alternative unit.
MS is never too late if they focus on Office and the Enterprise with their virtual monopoly of Windows OS. All they need to be is reasonably good, then change the game by creating new connectivity and sharing protocols. They need only convince corporate purchasers and corporate IT managers that you can't go wrong buying Microsft.
The best Apple and others can do is be enterprise compatible; Microsoft defines the enterprise.
It's not a sprint, it's a marathon - I know another company who used to define the enterprise: Big Blue, but that's ancient history.
Corporate purchasers and IT managers change slowly, but as the leadership in these companies embraces iPhones and iPads, minds are changing.
MS Office/Exchange still rule, but give it time. Tablets are getting more powerful quickly, and volume entices software giants to code their software for iOS. Gaming capabilities are once again driving the evolution of computing and allowing iPads to become production tools.
Gizmodo is drinking the M$ kool-aid. Amazing how people can go apeshit over something that they've had zero time to play around with because it doesn't exist yet. Basically they're drooling over a concept that may or may not prove to be successful, and expecting Tim Cook to respond in kind.
I've never really understood why they don't just change their url to "www.wefuckinghateapplesomuchaftertheyarrestedoneofusafterweboughttheirstoleniphone.com"
It's a lot more accurate and easier to remember, right? (>_<)
It's a lot more accurate and easier to remember, right? (>_<)
Well it's all click bait of course. But I can't believe how many people are drooling over this cover/keyboard when they've never even used it. As if Microsoft one upped Jony Ive and team with a clever idea they never thought of. If the one for the RT tablet is as soft as my smart cover how in the world do you type on it unless your on a flat, hard surface like a desk, and the in that case wouldn't you want a real keyboard or better yet, just use a laptop. I'm sure there's lots of things Apple prototypes that never sees the light of day. M$ and the tech blogs might think this is clever, I think it's gimmicky.
Comments
You really need to read the entire post, and read it carefully. The i5, which model of we have no idea, is just one small part of the problem. All of the old problems remain, but are magnified.
Quote:
Originally Posted by j1h15233
They can make it whatever price they want. What's important is the pricing and availability of anti virus software haha.
LOL, thanks needed a chuckle today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
You really need to read the entire post, and read it carefully. The i5, which model of we have no idea, is just one small part of the problem. All of the old problems remain, but are magnified.
I did. Your post was going on about the things we don't know. We DO know that Windows RT will NOT run your old programs. We DO know that Windows 8 (for Intel chips and AMD) will run your old programs. now whetehr it will run them WELL will depend on how strong the processor is, hwo much RAM, what video card, which are currently unknowns. But you will not run into a brick wall that says you are not allowed to run that here, like you will running the ARM processor. People ran Windows on netbooks w/smaller screens all the time. It may not be a preference, but it is possible. The 10.6" screen is about the size of the 11" MBA. People do all kinds of stuff on those. Do I want to know more detailed specs? Absolutely. Until we do, you really cant' say one way or the otehr how well the Intel version will run those programs, but it IS capable of running them.
That was my point. Relax.
We know a lot of what I said, including the history, which you seem to want to ignore, but which is very important.
And please refrain from being insulting.
So how will MS achieve any real differentiation with this . . . thing . . . among the mass of other OEM Windows 8 tablets?
Or do they plan on producing these things exclusively? What is the actual, visible draw from the average consumer's perspective?
Does MS think that slapping their logo on it will achieve any measurable differentiation for them? Probably not much more than Google with their Nexus line, which aint much.
I just don't see MS or their OEMs having a fun time of it in the market side-by-side:
Microsoft-branded tablet that runs Windows.
But this *other* tablet runs "Microsoft Windows" too.
Not good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff
+1
This is still the Microsoft of the 90's and 00's. Anybody get that 'soon to be released' version of Longhorn? Given themselves 6 months (-/+) to get their 'holiday' version out, and 9 months for a 'corporate' version is all about them getting 'ahead' of the apple release cycle (iPhone in the fall, iPad in the spring) in words.
I think the key thing is that MS will have all the F1xxx corporations at least buy a fleet of a couple hundred to test out, and there semi-pro FanBoi's of the Windows ilk just as Boiish as Apple's ... although the lines are much shorter;-). I see it selling a million once it releases, and Microsoft hoping beyond hope to find 'switchers' to base on this.
Then they find a message to support their keyword 'productive.' iPads are for consumers.... Surface tablets are for 'producers' (a much more macho verb)... Who want's to be a 'sheep' when you can be the Farmer?
I think everyone can say that iPads are very 'producer' friendly... it's just that 90% of the world's consumers are... information... 'consumers' (I let writers write books... I don't need a keyboard to read them).
Apple's also been building OSes, since 76... Even Microsoft didn't build it's Pc-dOS in 81... Gates/Ballmer/Allen bought it, and built it to support IBM's PC. In short, MS's DNA is supporting a larger 'manufacturer' of HW, and when it switched over to being the 'master' of the relationship (supplying any OEM's with the OS), they really didn't care about usability/quality, or even more so, architectural elegance. Xbox not withstanding.
Apple has been designing HW and SW in parallel for 37 years, with the 'hiatus' while Jobs was out effectively skunkworking the 'NeXT' Mac platform (pun intended). Microsoft's concern about quality is laughable, when looking at their definition of user experiential quality (classic: to 'stop' the computer... you go to the 'start' menu).
There is no 'bet the business' here in the 'Surface.' In fact, I see no such 'laser focus' as I see in quality. The fact that they built it on 2 OSes running on 2 chip architectures with 2 UIs (keyboard and stylus) basically have them hedging the their bets on this, let alone their classic Intel Iron Line. I can't see how they can focus on HW build quality when they have so many variables in the mix.
To complete the analogy above.... not only are they building Fords, but they are building Lincoln's too, using a different engine and different wiring harness to the dashboard, and supporting different steering devices on each.
Yeah, the bottom line is that Windows 8 and Windows RT are in no way, shape, or form, "built for" the Surface tablets. They're just "tablet-shaped" PCs. Windows has to work with every PC. Microsoft doesn't integrate software and hardware into a single product vision.
Apple can decide it wants to support retina display hardware, and boom! OSX supports retina. New Thunderbolt connector? Boom! Drivers aren't even something you have to think about. It just works. Switch from ATI to nvidia video chips? Seamless. Invisible. The user doesn't even have to do anything. It just works.
I can empathize with PC users who are not only so comfortable with PCs and computers, they wouldn't f'n know what to do if you took away their C:\ prompt, their BSOD, and their registry editor. Also Google, used to find out why they're getting some weird DLL conflict while installing new drivers (my favorite stupid Windows prompt is, "A newer version of XYZ.dll is installed, do you want to overwrite this?" as if users would know). Windows is familiar, comfortable for them. Some can make the transition into the post-PC era, while others cannot. Not without their Windows "safety blankey."
And as for producer vs consumer... Windows fans will probably continue to push that BS years from now, much like Google lovers and their antennagate. Meanwhile, in the real world, Avid now has a pretty awesome NLE for iPad....
http://gizmodo.com/5919521/microsoft-surface-just-made-the-macbook-air-and-the-ipad-obsolete
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR
Microsoft themselves quoted this as being 'around about ultra book' pricing levels. That's one damn expensive tablet.
I noticed that, although Microsoft tried to make the keynote 'Apple-like' the thing was very poorly done. The Surface shitting itself in the first few minutes of the demonstration didn't impress many either.
I did like some of the ideas they've implemented, and kudos to them for not doing an outright Samsung, but it may not be enough.
Time will tell.
Give them a break.
Jobs presented "all of web" on first iPad while web page he was browsing was showing big ugly "missing Flash plugin" square in the middle of the screen.
Not that it hurt much... but it can happen even to the best of the best.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress
Its going to be like a box of chocolates...pretty on the outside but once you start to bite into the chocolate you realize it tastes like shit!
What kind of chocolates are you buying..?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133
Give them a break.
Jobs presented "all of web" on first iPad while web page he was browsing was showing big ugly "missing Flash plugin" square in the middle of the screen.
Not that it hurt much... but it can happen even to the best of the best.
Missing sections in a webpage devoted to advertisements could technically be construed as a bonus!
It's also a lot different than having your device totally lock-up minutes into a demonstration, forcing you to swap to an alternative unit.
It's not a sprint, it's a marathon - I know another company who used to define the enterprise: Big Blue, but that's ancient history.
Corporate purchasers and IT managers change slowly, but as the leadership in these companies embraces iPhones and iPads, minds are changing.
MS Office/Exchange still rule, but give it time. Tablets are getting more powerful quickly, and volume entices software giants to code their software for iOS. Gaming capabilities are once again driving the evolution of computing and allowing iPads to become production tools.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
Gizmodo is drinking the M$ kool-aid. Amazing how people can go apeshit over something that they've had zero time to play around with because it doesn't exist yet. Basically they're drooling over a concept that may or may not prove to be successful, and expecting Tim Cook to respond in kind.
http://gizmodo.com/5919521/microsoft-surface-just-made-the-macbook-air-and-the-ipad-obsolete
Today they're claiming that a physical keyboard is the only way to beat Apple:
http://gizmodo.com/5919594/why-a-keyboardnot-a-processor-or-screen-or-anything-elseis-the-only-way-to-beat-apple
I've never really understood why they don't just change their url to "www.wefuckinghateapplesomuchaftertheyarrestedoneofusafterweboughttheirstoleniphone.com"
It's a lot more accurate and easier to remember, right? (>_<)
Quote:
Originally Posted by diplication
No, think Pontiac Aztek. Tried to do everything, did nothing well. Designed by old men to sell to the youthful, but didn't have a clue.
... but the Aztek didn't have a kickstand...
So in other words, limiting product exposure.
Microsoft: "Here is our hype, you can buy it sometime in the future."
Apple: "Here is what you can do with it, shipping in 10 days."