Nevertheless, I hope Apple sticks with x86 and other off-the-shelf hardware, or at least hardware co-developed with someone like Thunderbolt, and sticks to refining the system and user experience that defines the Mac rather than going out on some small evolutionary tree limb that may be a dead end.
I am looking forward to seeing more of what can be done with Haswell. It should be interesting. I hope Apple will make some sort of tower using the desktop versions in addition to a full out high end work station. I continue to believe that there are a significantly large group of users who want the flexibility of a tower rather than being restricted by the iMac platform. I know that I have spoken with several people of late who have said that they are presently using an iMac because Apple have not released an up-to-date Mac Pro in too long.
It would just be a co-processor, it wouldn't have to run an OS although it could easily run iOS and be controlled from OS X. You'd have a Xeon chip and some multi-core ARM co-processor, could be 25-core 2GHz. Software that doesn't use a GUI like graphics rendering engines can be compiled against it and run in parallel. This kind of software can easily use every core:
It would need to be 64-bit and share the memory with the main CPU.
Speaking of the Mac Mini, I just read a piece indicating that iMacs shipments are delayed to October 12th. Maybe something similar is up with the Mini. That would make for a nice Mid October release.
We are talking Mac Mini here!!! I've heard nor read about anything Mac Mini related.
We only hear about the Minis when they are being boxed and sometimes never so we have to base it on the iMac.
The iMac needs to be shown at an event because it will have its optical drive removed so total redesign. It's not enough by itself as it would be a 10 minute event so it has to come with something else.
That something else could be an iPad Mini or it could be a 13" rMBP or both (the more the better).
Any hint of an event suggests that the iMac and Mini will come along for the ride. If they are waiting for an event, this upcoming event will be the last one this year.
Speaking of the Mac Mini, I just read a piece indicating that iMacs shipments are delayed to October 12th. Maybe something similar is up with the Mini. That would make for a nice Mid October release.
I would have tears of joy in my eyes if that happened.
Neglect is the right concept here and is specific to the desktop lineup. The laptops get all the attention in the world. Frankly I'm not sure if Apple is even aware of the impact this neglect has on sales. I suspect it is more significant than they might imagine. As you note people end up seeking other options.
And when a desktop computer (not an all in one) is the product you really want all the wizz-bang of the other Apple products, while hearing and seeing nothing regarding desktops does not make one want to rush out and buy those other Apple products. At least it doesn't for me.
I am so sad. I had a dream last night that new Mac Minis got released. Samsung SSDs were standard and the graphics were really shitty. I remember the server model had a discrete card with 32 MB of memory.
I can see them skipping the iMac at this rate of going. Haswell is getting closer and closer.
As for the MIni...Haswell will be the best thing for it. And a damn price cut. ...and bundle a retina 13 inch screen with it. Then it would be a 'mini' desktop.
It's Haswell or nothing...for me at the moment.
Though I was tempted by a 2nd hand top of the line iMac for £1000. I may as well put that to a Haswell iMac. Here's hoping that retina will be on the cards by then.
I can see them skipping the iMac at this rate of going. Haswell is getting closer and closer.
That would be so pathetic. I can almost understand the Pro if they are seriously considering Xeon Phi as that would be a sweeping change, a true next generation machine. However Haswell for the desktop isn't that huge of a deal.
As for the MIni...Haswell will be the best thing for it. And a damn price cut. ...and bundle a retina 13 inch screen with it. Then it would be a 'mini' desktop.
If Intel actually delivers on what has been alleged then yeah the Mini ought to be significantly better with Haswell. The problem is Intel does not often deliver the goods. Especially in the context of GPUs which currently are any better than AMDs last generation of GPUs.
It's Haswell or nothing...for me at the moment.
Though I was tempted by a 2nd hand top of the line iMac for £1000. I may as well put that to a Haswell iMac. Here's hoping that retina will be on the cards by then.
Lemon Bon Bon.
There is nothing wrong with waiting for Haswell. The problem right now is for people that want to buy a desktop now. The current Mac desktop line up is simply a poor value considering the top dollar being asked. The lack of USB 3 is very significant.
There is nothing wrong with waiting for Haswell. The problem right now is for people that want to buy a desktop now. The current Mac desktop line up is simply a poor value considering the top dollar being asked. The lack of USB 3 is very significant.
This is especially true with lower end machines like the mini. Thunderbolt peripherals are out of line with the cost of the mini. They're often significantly more expensive than usb equivalents, and this makes little sense with a $600 machine. USB3 is very significant here, especially for longevity. The low end machines saw some nice gains. The Air and base 13" macbook pro saw some nice gains putting their low end versions roughly even with the high end of the prior generation (at least close). The gpu upgrade is also significant. I don't see people simply buying these as facebook machines. They are likely purchased as budget machines for those who simply want a Mac yet can't afford the typical cost of entry. Having them a generation behind really weakens their value, and I suspect they're being held up due to the imac. There may be some truth to production problems with the next imac. I don't expect an enormous bump in display resolution there.
They are likely purchased as budget machines for those who simply want a Mac yet can't afford the typical cost of entry. Having them a generation behind really weakens their value, and I suspect they're being held up due to the imac. There may be some truth to production problems with the next imac. I don't expect an enormous bump in display resolution there.
All I want is for them to update it. I like when Apple holds press conferences but not for iDevices.
This is especially true with lower end machines like the mini. Thunderbolt peripherals are out of line with the cost of the mini.
I think the problem with Thunderbolt is that people don't understand it's purpose, it was never met to replace USB. Apple got exactly what they wanted out of it which was a multipurpose docking port. The fact that it has high end uses beyond that is just gravy for Apple.
They're often significantly more expensive than usb equivalents, and this makes little sense with a $600 machine.
Actually I think it will get only worst in the future. SoC technology and general shrinking of the mass produced components just means that a basic CPU box will get cheaper over time while increasing in performance. Come Haswell we will see a significant bump in Mini performance at the same or a possibly lower price. Just because the box is cheap doesn't mean that it doesn't have a need for real high performance I/O.
USB3 is very significant here, especially for longevity. The low end machines saw some nice gains.
Longevity is huge! A couple of weeks ago I bought an external device that supports USB 3 even though I have no support for it on my 2008 MBP. However knowing that that machine will be replaced soon I wasn't about to settle for a USB 2 based drive.
The Air and base 13" macbook pro saw some nice gains putting their low end versions roughly even with the high end of the prior generation (at least close). The gpu upgrade is also significant. I don't see people simply buying these as facebook machines.
You don't see yourself doing that, however the reasons that people buy computer hardware varies considerably. That and some people really don't care about cost, more so these people can be either rich or poor. They just buy what they want based on who knows why justifications.
They are likely purchased as budget machines for those who simply want a Mac yet can't afford the typical cost of entry. Having them a generation behind really weakens their value, and I suspect they're being held up due to the imac.
Which is asinine in my estimation. Lets face it people looking to buy a Mini would not be looking to buy an iMac. Anybody in Apples marketing department that has a concern about this is an idiot. I mean really the platforms are so different there likely is no overlap in interest.
There may be some truth to production problems with the next imac. I don't expect an enormous bump in display resolution there.
Could be. I atually thought that the initial delay was due to allocation issues with Intel. That was months ago and at this time Intel is way behind in shipments due to soft demand. So I really don't know what is up, the silence however is maddening.
As a side note I'm still hoping for a refactored Mini concept. One that provides a real spread in performance between the low end and high end models. If I'm going to pay for a GPU it had better have a decent performance delta over Intels integrated and a decent amount of Video RAM. Apple really boned us with the midrange Mini which is very expensive considering what you get for the bucks.
I really had to force myself to read that crap. I really don't like the way the articles are written nor what appears to be a marketing forum for Intel. Besides that I really get pissed when pages of an article barely cover the screen on my iPhone.
That being said Haswell doesn't look like the performance jump many where expecting. Sure floating point gets a huge boost if software can make use of AVX 2. The GPU might be a bit better but we have all learned not to trust intel here. The other sad reality is that it looks like power savings won't be as huge as expected, still good but not a home run.
The most interesting thing here is the suggestion that Intel turned down Apples request to put video memory on chip. This is pretty sad really as even a little bit of on board video RAM would go a long ways to lowering power usage especially if the GPU has to go off chip. This would be the next step I would expect Apple to take in the A series chips.
I have come forward to both reading and posting in this thread every day. This thread is almost as big as the Mini itself.
Well it isn't that big. However I'm very interested myself. For one I believe the Mini has run its course as a product, as such I'm expecting a replacement design that would hopefully address declining sales. If not that at least a design that gives us real choice. That is a cheap entry model balanced by a performance machine.
Yeah, but I'm no fan of Anandtech. The articles sound too much like they are on Intels payroll. Harsh but over time the articles do seem to be extremely biased or even cheerleader like. I don't mean just go team go but the duh moments one experiences when talking to cheerleaders.
That being said the article leaves me with the impression that we will get less out of Haswell than we were expecting. The bright side being very good graphics improvements. This of course depends upon Intel actually delivering chips that give us the performance envisioned.
The other thing that is frustrating is the summer release schedule. It could be this time next year before we see the chips in a desktop Mac. That kinda sucks. My old MacBookPro is starting to balk, it looks like a USB port is going bad. An update may happen sooner than expected.
Well it isn't that big. However I'm very interested myself. For one I believe the Mini has run its course as a product, as such I'm expecting a replacement design that would hopefully address declining sales. If not that at least a design that gives us real choice. That is a cheap entry model balanced by a performance machine.
That's fine. It doesn't have to be the mini, though I want something that can sit on my desk similar to the mini and plug into a separate monitor. I don't want the Mac line-up to be Air, retina Pro, and iMac (since we don't know what the Pro will be).
I would like to buy a Mac Mini with the updated Ivy bridge chip set.
Any ideas when Apple might get around to updating this little beauty?
Does Apple always have to make a Big announcement about future product or do they just issue a press release and say that they have made the change over?
I would like to buy a Mac Mini with the updated Ivy bridge chip set.
Any ideas when Apple might get around to updating this little beauty?
Does Apple always have to make a Big announcement about future product or do they just issue a press release and say that they have made the change over?
Thanks
Merged because simplicity.
The Mini won't be redesigned, so it doesn't get an announcement on its own. Heck, the last redesign didn't even get anything but a silent update. The only time you'll ever see a Mac Mini at a future Apple event is as "and we're updating the Mac Mini today, too." after they talk about a redesigned iMac.
Comments
Marvin,
Thanks for the clarification.
Nevertheless, I hope Apple sticks with x86 and other off-the-shelf hardware, or at least hardware co-developed with someone like Thunderbolt, and sticks to refining the system and user experience that defines the Mac rather than going out on some small evolutionary tree limb that may be a dead end.
I am looking forward to seeing more of what can be done with Haswell. It should be interesting. I hope Apple will make some sort of tower using the desktop versions in addition to a full out high end work station. I continue to believe that there are a significantly large group of users who want the flexibility of a tower rather than being restricted by the iMac platform. I know that I have spoken with several people of late who have said that they are presently using an iMac because Apple have not released an up-to-date Mac Pro in too long.
Cheers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
It would just be a co-processor, it wouldn't have to run an OS although it could easily run iOS and be controlled from OS X. You'd have a Xeon chip and some multi-core ARM co-processor, could be 25-core 2GHz. Software that doesn't use a GUI like graphics rendering engines can be compiled against it and run in parallel. This kind of software can easily use every core:
It would need to be 64-bit and share the memory with the main CPU.
http://appleinsider.com/articles/12/10/01/apple-rumored-to-send-out-ipad-mini-event-invitations-on-oct-10
The last event was guessed well in advance:
http://www.macrumors.com/2012/07/30/apple-media-event-all-but-confirmed-for-mid-september-iphone-launch-likely/
It has to be next week at the earliest as the press event invites have to be sent out, usually on Friday.
We are talking Mac Mini here!!! I've heard nor read about anything Mac Mini related.
Speaking of the Mac Mini, I just read a piece indicating that iMacs shipments are delayed to October 12th. Maybe something similar is up with the Mini. That would make for a nice Mid October release.
We only hear about the Minis when they are being boxed and sometimes never so we have to base it on the iMac.
The iMac needs to be shown at an event because it will have its optical drive removed so total redesign. It's not enough by itself as it would be a 10 minute event so it has to come with something else.
That something else could be an iPad Mini or it could be a 13" rMBP or both (the more the better).
Any hint of an event suggests that the iMac and Mini will come along for the ride. If they are waiting for an event, this upcoming event will be the last one this year.
I would have tears of joy in my eyes if that happened.
http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/28942-nvidia-silently-slips-few-new-mobile-gpus <--- I wonder if these will be included.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
Neglect is the right concept here and is specific to the desktop lineup. The laptops get all the attention in the world. Frankly I'm not sure if Apple is even aware of the impact this neglect has on sales. I suspect it is more significant than they might imagine. As you note people end up seeking other options.
And when a desktop computer (not an all in one) is the product you really want all the wizz-bang of the other Apple products, while hearing and seeing nothing regarding desktops does not make one want to rush out and buy those other Apple products. At least it doesn't for me.
Originally Posted by Winter
…a discrete card with 32 MB of memory.
Ah, 1997…
Wait, you're sad that this was a dream?
I'm dreaming about a computer. *laughs* I feel that's a bit pathetic for me.
They skipped the 'pro.'
I can see them skipping the iMac at this rate of going. Haswell is getting closer and closer.
As for the MIni...Haswell will be the best thing for it. And a damn price cut. ...and bundle a retina 13 inch screen with it. Then it would be a 'mini' desktop.
It's Haswell or nothing...for me at the moment.
Though I was tempted by a 2nd hand top of the line iMac for £1000. I may as well put that to a Haswell iMac. Here's hoping that retina will be on the cards by then.
Lemon Bon Bon.
Sounds like a nightmare.
Speaking of nightmares that seems to be the condition of the entire desktop line up. A horror story not suitable for kids.
There is nothing wrong with waiting for Haswell. The problem right now is for people that want to buy a desktop now. The current Mac desktop line up is simply a poor value considering the top dollar being asked. The lack of USB 3 is very significant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
There is nothing wrong with waiting for Haswell. The problem right now is for people that want to buy a desktop now. The current Mac desktop line up is simply a poor value considering the top dollar being asked. The lack of USB 3 is very significant.
This is especially true with lower end machines like the mini. Thunderbolt peripherals are out of line with the cost of the mini. They're often significantly more expensive than usb equivalents, and this makes little sense with a $600 machine. USB3 is very significant here, especially for longevity. The low end machines saw some nice gains. The Air and base 13" macbook pro saw some nice gains putting their low end versions roughly even with the high end of the prior generation (at least close). The gpu upgrade is also significant. I don't see people simply buying these as facebook machines. They are likely purchased as budget machines for those who simply want a Mac yet can't afford the typical cost of entry. Having them a generation behind really weakens their value, and I suspect they're being held up due to the imac. There may be some truth to production problems with the next imac. I don't expect an enormous bump in display resolution there.
All I want is for them to update it. I like when Apple holds press conferences but not for iDevices.
As a side note I'm still hoping for a refactored Mini concept. One that provides a real spread in performance between the low end and high end models. If I'm going to pay for a GPU it had better have a decent performance delta over Intels integrated and a decent amount of Video RAM. Apple really boned us with the midrange Mini which is very expensive considering what you get for the bucks.
Has anyone read the article on Anandtech about Haswell?
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6355/intels-haswell-architecture
That being said Haswell doesn't look like the performance jump many where expecting. Sure floating point gets a huge boost if software can make use of AVX 2. The GPU might be a bit better but we have all learned not to trust intel here. The other sad reality is that it looks like power savings won't be as huge as expected, still good but not a home run.
The most interesting thing here is the suggestion that Intel turned down Apples request to put video memory on chip. This is pretty sad really as even a little bit of on board video RAM would go a long ways to lowering power usage especially if the GPU has to go off chip. This would be the next step I would expect Apple to take in the A series chips.
Well it isn't that big. However I'm very interested myself. For one I believe the Mini has run its course as a product, as such I'm expecting a replacement design that would hopefully address declining sales. If not that at least a design that gives us real choice. That is a cheap entry model balanced by a performance machine.
Yeah, but I'm no fan of Anandtech. The articles sound too much like they are on Intels payroll. Harsh but over time the articles do seem to be extremely biased or even cheerleader like. I don't mean just go team go but the duh moments one experiences when talking to cheerleaders.
That being said the article leaves me with the impression that we will get less out of Haswell than we were expecting. The bright side being very good graphics improvements. This of course depends upon Intel actually delivering chips that give us the performance envisioned.
The other thing that is frustrating is the summer release schedule. It could be this time next year before we see the chips in a desktop Mac. That kinda sucks. My old MacBookPro is starting to balk, it looks like a USB port is going bad. An update may happen sooner than expected.
That's fine. It doesn't have to be the mini, though I want something that can sit on my desk similar to the mini and plug into a separate monitor. I don't want the Mac line-up to be Air, retina Pro, and iMac (since we don't know what the Pro will be).
I would like to buy a Mac Mini with the updated Ivy bridge chip set.
Any ideas when Apple might get around to updating this little beauty?
Does Apple always have to make a Big announcement about future product or do they just issue a press release and say that they have made the change over?
Thanks
Originally Posted by dave92029
I would like to buy a Mac Mini with the updated Ivy bridge chip set.
Any ideas when Apple might get around to updating this little beauty?
Does Apple always have to make a Big announcement about future product or do they just issue a press release and say that they have made the change over?
Thanks
Merged because simplicity.
The Mini won't be redesigned, so it doesn't get an announcement on its own. Heck, the last redesign didn't even get anything but a silent update. The only time you'll ever see a Mac Mini at a future Apple event is as "and we're updating the Mac Mini today, too." after they talk about a redesigned iMac.