Technically the apple TV already has the full fledged Mac OS on it, and yet it is not accessible because it does not make sense.
I seriously think that MS isn't trying to compete with the iPad, they're just trying not to be a netbook. And if they can sell hardware to make a few extra bucks, why not. If they were really thinking straight, they would have realized that the zune made absolutely no dent in the market as it was a crappier copycat. If they can wipe out the netbook market, all the power to them. As an IT person, I hate "fixing" some poor student's computer because I can't image what kind of garbage is on there. If MS can make something more palatable for both the target consumer and technical support community, all the power to them.
AppleTV runs iOS -- the current model uses an A5X chip which runs iOS 6 (or iOS 5).
yeah would be nice to have a tablet for actual talented people
iPad is for that group that everything they own other people made and everything that has ever inspired them other people have imagined - be nice to have a tablet for the rest of us.
iOS has always been the dumbing down of Apple - the device for "joe" - who can produce little with their time - reason why it has so many silly video games
You're right...I wish I could write music on my iPad, use amplifier plug ins for my guitar rig, create literature, etc....oh, wait, I believe I DO have all that...and with no spam or virii ala windows....try again!
Why is it so hard for some people to realize that not everyone has the same needs. For a lot of people, a keyboard on a tablet makes a lot of sense - particularly when it's so easily removable.
It isn't hard for me to imagine that some people really need a physical keyboard. What is hard for me to imagine is that people would prefer a Surface over an iPad for such irrelevant thing when there are a lot of solutions for the iPad out there. If you couldn't use a physical keyboard with the iPad, I could give Microsoft that as a selling point, but that's not the case. Since day one the iPad has been able to use bluetooth keyboards. So, that's why, for me, that keyboard isn't a game changer at all.
Question that remains to be answered is, how many people need fully featured computer in a tablet form. Microsoft's own RT vs. Pro tablets sales will be good indicator. If Pro turns to be selling well, then yes - Apple could benefit from having MacBook Pro hardware in tablet format. Airs are nice and portable, but still laptops - not that easy to use while standing, for example, or in both landscape and portrait orientation. Or where freehand input (via touch-screen) is preferable to keyboard and touchpad.
I do not think the Surfaces will be usable in portrait mode because of the aspect ratio of the display. The keyboards are attached in landscape mode. I don't recall seeing any demos using a virtual kb in either portrait or landscape.
Can you envision someone standing, holding a Surface in portrait mode making a FaceTime connection while standing a convenient 22 degrees to one side (which side?) with the detached kb conveniently stuffed under one arm. How convenient is that? Then to add to the agony, flipping the Surface around to show what you see (compensating for the 22 degrees) to the FaceTime contact (while, likely, dropping the kb). I suppose you could flip out the kickstand for use as a handle and/or alignment guide.
Another scenario, you're sitting in coach with the seat in front tilted all the way back for a long (really long, as it turns out) flight. You whip out your Surface Pro to get some "real work" done. Because the kickstand tilts the Surface back, you must move move it towards you to compensate for the seat back in front -- with the "real kb" poking you in the chest. There you sit, with your elbows at your sides and your hands by your chin (like a praying mantis) ready for several hours of productive touch typing... Then the guy in the window seat [pun intended] has to go to the bathroom...
Honestly, a real laptop is more flexible and useful in this real-world environment -- you can tilt the screen. Backward or forward as needed and adjust the distance to the kb.
Finally, I think MS performed a slight-of-hand. By calling the Surface a tablet, they knew we would immediately think of an iPad... And make assumptions that the Surface would deliver the same basic "tablet capabilities". But, the Surface doesn't deliver -- it is a laptop with a touch screen and a detachable kb.
1) The Surface running Windows RT will only run apps that go through MS's app store.
2) You're being ignorant by not even understanding the basics of the Surface or Windows 8 constraints.
3) You're clearly trolling by saying iOS is not a real OS. MS had decades with their "real" OS on tablets and it got them nowhere. There first attempt post iPad will be with a concept that follows Apple's very successful iPad and iOS lead.
For posters like Ewan, a "real OS" or "full OS" contains all the baggage of x86 Windows. They are probably IT guys who don't "Contact your Administrator" because they ARE the Administrator, or a hacker. These guys freak out if they can't get into the BIOS screen and throw every switch. They want a computer that spits out "Keyboard error or no keyboard present. Press F1 to continue or DEL to enter SETUP".
For posters like Ewan, a "real OS" or "full OS" contains all the baggage of x86 Windows. They are probably IT guys who don't "Contact your Administrator" because they ARE the Administrator, or a hacker. These guys freak out if they can't get into the BIOS screen and throw every switch. They want a computer that spits out "Keyboard error or no keyboard present. Press F1 to continue or DEL to enter SETUP".
So it needs to have Adobe Flash and Real Player, too?
On a more serious note, will the x86 Surface still have a BIOS?
And... you can run heavy-duty apps like Final Cut Pro, Office for Mac or Aperture on iPad "upgraded" with keyboard?
I think not.
Question that remains to be answered is, how many people need fully featured computer in a tablet form. Microsoft's own RT vs. Pro tablets sales will be good indicator. If Pro turns to be selling well, then yes - Apple could benefit from having MacBook Pro hardware in tablet format. Airs are nice and portable, but still laptops - not that easy to use while standing, for example, or in both landscape and portrait orientation. Or where freehand input (via touch-screen) is preferable to keyboard and touchpad.
No, I think the question HAS been answered. You just aren't paying attention. The answer is: About as many people who flocked to the Windows Tablet PCs over the last 10 years. Don't say it's because those tablets were just convertible laptops and therefore too heavy (they were), because Samsung has been selling an impressively thin and light Core i5-based Windows 7 tablet (it even runs Windows 8 Consumer Preview quite nicely, I've used it). And it's not vaporware: you can buy that Samsung tablet TODAY and install Windows 8 CP, and it runs all your "heavy duty apps".
On a more serious note, will the x86 Surface still have a BIOS?
PC makers are getting good at hiding the BIOS prompt during boot, but it should be there. I'm sure the first person to load Ubuntu on a Surface will be celebrated on slashdot as a god among geeks.
Another scenario, you're sitting in coach with the seat in front tilted all the way back for a long (really long, as it turns out) flight. You whip out your Surface Pro to get some "real work" done. Because the kickstand tilts the Surface back, you must move move it towards you to compensate for the seat back in front -- with the "real kb" poking you in the chest. There you sit, with your elbows at your sides and your hands by your chin (like a praying mantis) ready for several hours of productive touch typing... Then the guy in the window seat [pun intended] has to go to the bathroom...
Excellent points. I thought about the airplane situation as well after seeing that boring demo; it's not gonna fly.
Your window seat pun; too funny!
I really think this Surface won't Suffice. I don't know how W8 will work on the SurfPro version of their Surface Family (sic), but I did enable Screen Sharing on my Mac and tried to 'operate' it through a free VNC app on my iPad. That was NOT a pleasant exercise.
PC makers are getting good at hiding the BIOS prompt during boot, but it should be there. I'm sure the first person to load Ubuntu on a Surface will be celebrated on slashdot as a god among geeks.
So true, I have a bluetooth keyboard which I seldom use because once they are synced the virtual keyboard doesn't work.
An iPad is mobile which I use all over the house and when I need to send an email I can't use the virtual keyboard imagine how annoying it is which I believe the Surface buyers will be facing.
And Apple did the right thing use the virtual keyboard for light use and when one needs to write a novel get a bluetooth keyboard and how many of us are novel writers.
this is much too dismissive. i agree, you probably won't use a keyboard/cover around the house. but i take my iPad around town a lot, and on the road of course. for that you need a cover of some kind anyway to protect it. i use the Logitech keyboard cover (last year's - the new one is nicer). it is really handy. first, just to prop up the iPad at a good hands free viewing angle, while i drink coffee/beer (which i do a lot), eat a sandwich, etc. and second, to type stuff of course. us old schoolers usually prefer an actual keyboard for writing everything - if it's handy. but, yes, you can't do that riding in a car, another place we use the iPad a lot. great for hotel rooms tho.
btw, to break the bluetooth link all you have to do is flick the keyboard/cover power switch to Off. like, when you take it off and put it aside at home anyway. i don't think that is really much of a problem to cite ...
Excellent points. I thought about the airplane situation as well after seeing that boring demo; it's not gonna fly.
Your window seat pun; too funny!
I really think this Surface won't Suffice. I don't know how W8 will work on the SurfPro version of their Surface Family (sic), but I did enable Screen Sharing on my Mac and tried to 'operate' it through a free VNC app on my iPad. That was NOT a pleasant exercise.
Comments
AppleTV runs iOS -- the current model uses an A5X chip which runs iOS 6 (or iOS 5).
You're right...I wish I could write music on my iPad, use amplifier plug ins for my guitar rig, create literature, etc....oh, wait, I believe I DO have all that...and with no spam or virii ala windows....try again!
[LIST][*]http://www.asymco.com/2012/07/04/the-building-and-dismantling-of-the-windows-advantage/ [/LIST]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Why is it so hard for some people to realize that not everyone has the same needs. For a lot of people, a keyboard on a tablet makes a lot of sense - particularly when it's so easily removable.
It isn't hard for me to imagine that some people really need a physical keyboard. What is hard for me to imagine is that people would prefer a Surface over an iPad for such irrelevant thing when there are a lot of solutions for the iPad out there. If you couldn't use a physical keyboard with the iPad, I could give Microsoft that as a selling point, but that's not the case. Since day one the iPad has been able to use bluetooth keyboards. So, that's why, for me, that keyboard isn't a game changer at all.
Interesting article, thanks for sharing. A prime example of the results of resting on your laurels...and not having a clue about your competition...
I do not think the Surfaces will be usable in portrait mode because of the aspect ratio of the display. The keyboards are attached in landscape mode. I don't recall seeing any demos using a virtual kb in either portrait or landscape.
Can you envision someone standing, holding a Surface in portrait mode making a FaceTime connection while standing a convenient 22 degrees to one side (which side?) with the detached kb conveniently stuffed under one arm. How convenient is that? Then to add to the agony, flipping the Surface around to show what you see (compensating for the 22 degrees) to the FaceTime contact (while, likely, dropping the kb). I suppose you could flip out the kickstand for use as a handle and/or alignment guide.
Another scenario, you're sitting in coach with the seat in front tilted all the way back for a long (really long, as it turns out) flight. You whip out your Surface Pro to get some "real work" done. Because the kickstand tilts the Surface back, you must move move it towards you to compensate for the seat back in front -- with the "real kb" poking you in the chest. There you sit, with your elbows at your sides and your hands by your chin (like a praying mantis) ready for several hours of productive touch typing... Then the guy in the window seat [pun intended] has to go to the bathroom...
Honestly, a real laptop is more flexible and useful in this real-world environment -- you can tilt the screen. Backward or forward as needed and adjust the distance to the kb.
Finally, I think MS performed a slight-of-hand. By calling the Surface a tablet, they knew we would immediately think of an iPad... And make assumptions that the Surface would deliver the same basic "tablet capabilities". But, the Surface doesn't deliver -- it is a laptop with a touch screen and a detachable kb.
During the preso, they referred to it as a PC!
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
1) The Surface running Windows RT will only run apps that go through MS's app store.
2) You're being ignorant by not even understanding the basics of the Surface or Windows 8 constraints.
3) You're clearly trolling by saying iOS is not a real OS. MS had decades with their "real" OS on tablets and it got them nowhere. There first attempt post iPad will be with a concept that follows Apple's very successful iPad and iOS lead.
For posters like Ewan, a "real OS" or "full OS" contains all the baggage of x86 Windows. They are probably IT guys who don't "Contact your Administrator" because they ARE the Administrator, or a hacker. These guys freak out if they can't get into the BIOS screen and throw every switch. They want a computer that spits out "Keyboard error or no keyboard present. Press F1 to continue or DEL to enter SETUP".
So it needs to have Adobe Flash and Real Player, too?
On a more serious note, will the x86 Surface still have a BIOS?
Thanks for that link; good article.
Also liked the comment from a poster: JohnDoey:
“Why is [Steve Jobs] doing [the Apple comeback]? He must know he can’t win.” — Bill Gates, 1999."
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133
And... you can run heavy-duty apps like Final Cut Pro, Office for Mac or Aperture on iPad "upgraded" with keyboard?
I think not.
Question that remains to be answered is, how many people need fully featured computer in a tablet form. Microsoft's own RT vs. Pro tablets sales will be good indicator. If Pro turns to be selling well, then yes - Apple could benefit from having MacBook Pro hardware in tablet format. Airs are nice and portable, but still laptops - not that easy to use while standing, for example, or in both landscape and portrait orientation. Or where freehand input (via touch-screen) is preferable to keyboard and touchpad.
No, I think the question HAS been answered. You just aren't paying attention. The answer is: About as many people who flocked to the Windows Tablet PCs over the last 10 years. Don't say it's because those tablets were just convertible laptops and therefore too heavy (they were), because Samsung has been selling an impressively thin and light Core i5-based Windows 7 tablet (it even runs Windows 8 Consumer Preview quite nicely, I've used it). And it's not vaporware: you can buy that Samsung tablet TODAY and install Windows 8 CP, and it runs all your "heavy duty apps".
And are they flying off the shelf?
Nope.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
On a more serious note, will the x86 Surface still have a BIOS?
PC makers are getting good at hiding the BIOS prompt during boot, but it should be there. I'm sure the first person to load Ubuntu on a Surface will be celebrated on slashdot as a god among geeks.
After all these years; this one still is funny!
So PCs aren't using EFI yet?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamC
So true, I have a bluetooth keyboard which I seldom use because once they are synced the virtual keyboard doesn't work.
An iPad is mobile which I use all over the house and when I need to send an email I can't use the virtual keyboard imagine how annoying it is which I believe the Surface buyers will be facing.
And Apple did the right thing use the virtual keyboard for light use and when one needs to write a novel get a bluetooth keyboard and how many of us are novel writers.
this is much too dismissive. i agree, you probably won't use a keyboard/cover around the house. but i take my iPad around town a lot, and on the road of course. for that you need a cover of some kind anyway to protect it. i use the Logitech keyboard cover (last year's - the new one is nicer). it is really handy. first, just to prop up the iPad at a good hands free viewing angle, while i drink coffee/beer (which i do a lot), eat a sandwich, etc. and second, to type stuff of course. us old schoolers usually prefer an actual keyboard for writing everything - if it's handy. but, yes, you can't do that riding in a car, another place we use the iPad a lot. great for hotel rooms tho.
btw, to break the bluetooth link all you have to do is flick the keyboard/cover power switch to Off. like, when you take it off and put it aside at home anyway. i don't think that is really much of a problem to cite ...
Bill Gates seems to forget Apple has MacBook Air to fill that gap in much better way than his awful creation ( specially the 11 inch version).
do you know the difference between surface and a netbook?
lol, no. Not even Windows 8, if I remember correctly.
And... you can run heavy-duty apps like Final Cut Pro, Office for Mac or Aperture on iPad "upgraded" with keyboard?
I think not.
[/QUOTE]
Actually, the kb need not (and should not) be the defining element of a "heavy-duty" app.
FWIW, there are CAD and video editing apps running on the iPad (and iPhone)... iMovie, Avid studio...
I suspect we'll see FCP X running on an iPad long before we see an equivalent "heavy-duty" video editor running on a Surface.
MSFT will be $25 long before it hits $35, if ever. I shorted it with a Feb 2013 expiration.
"Surface won't Suffice"
You nailed it!