Nobody knows yet. It's impossible to judge fairly until real people have the opportunity to use these new products and review them. But Microsoft Office is still very much a big deal for a lot of people.
I don't need to wait. The product isn't the problem...the business strategy is the problem (see my post 114). They have an enterprise device that at best will be sold through consumer channels (if at all). There is no way in hell Microsoft can compete with iPad from a manufacturing, marketing, and distribution standpoint. It will be about as successful as a 12 year old selling warm beer at a lemonade stand.
Sorry, but the business strategy is screwed up. I don't need to use the device to know that.
I welcome Microsoft to the tablet world, just as I welcomed them to the smartphone world.
Though what they think anyone would want with a desktop OS on a multitouch device is anyone's guess. They don't seem to have learned from the last decade.
I for one have been waiting 2 years before i can do anything significant on my iPad besides reading iMags/iNewsapers, looking at iPics, viewing iMovies.
An actual hands on user experience would be a relief <sigh>- besides playing iGames.
Looks like its about time for Microsoft to stage a funeral for the iPad, like they did for the iPhone...the hubris is on full display just like always...
The whole "new" form factor is utter nonsense, its a tablet that runs windows (like the ones they've had since XP but never sold much)...except this is the PR machine for Microsoft...this has to be "new" (even if its not) and "great" so they have a chance of selling it.
Question for Bill - will my WinPad run Norton Antivirus? And what's the effect on battery life of that?
I care less about microsoft - and yes 90% of the people spend their time on web browsers... because 90% of the people make nothing - it is the rest that still to this day make the sites they look at, layout the e-magazines they read - design and build the apps they use. non of it is made on an iPAD or Mickey Mouse iOS
It is nice that that 90% that went no further past crayons are happy with IOS - but for the rest of us who actually do not waste that much time on doing nothing - it would be nice to also get a tablet device from Apple.
Take a look at photos of headquarter offices of top start-ups - Facebook, Twitter, FourSquare, Square, LinkedIn, Pandora, etc... They all use MacBooks and OSX. So, smarty, Apple has a solution for the creators as well
right, because microsoft is so on the cutting-edge of innovation that apple would need to feel that it needs to compete.
it is a well known fact that apple looks to itself as it's own competitor and attempts to outdo itself, not it's competitors—except when their technology is stolen (cough-android-cough).
Now all the words from Gates here aside, I think the WinPad stands a chance if Microsoft executes adequately (although with nothing but crashing prototypes that nobody got to play with in hand and two different versions of the WinPad at the starting gate its not looking good from a consumer confusion standpoint). Seems like they could take share from the little part of the market that Android owns as they are in such a sad state on tablets. There will be a group of dedicated windows users that will buy it as well (its a big market) and possibly have a WP phone to go with it.
It seems at this point Microsoft can finally see they and their share price will fade away over time if they don't get into the phone and tablet markets which is where the growth (future) is. Like the game console market, they can spend years and years pouring money down a hole if they think they need to until they finally get it working enough (they made no money on Xbox and didn't start making money on the Xbox 360 for years but do now) - and they have no choice but to do this and pour money down this hole and the WP hole - for years - until they get it right enough (not for domination but for some marketshare) - the alternative is to watch the growth of their main revenue driver, PC's, tail off and eventually start shrinking.
Apple has nothing to worry about here and I hope Microsoft can execute this...Google (android tablets) are the ones to be sweating this...
It's not so much that it will change the way people think, it's that it will get people thinking the same things they were thinking before the iPad. This is exactly what the vision was for a tablet before the iPad came around.
We will see if it does any better this time around.
Billy is a nice chap, but somehow I can't get rid of the feeling, that he just missed the train.
Billy just got off the short bus to miss the train... He's been away from the market a long time if he thinks the Surface has any appeal. Windows 8 may be a failure as well. Enterprise is happy with Windows 7 and there's nothing about Windows 8 compelling enough to upgrade to a screen full of LEGO blocks.
It seems at this point Microsoft can finally see they and their share price will fade away over time if they don't get into the phone and tablet markets which is where the growth (future) is. Like the game console market, they can spend years and years pouring money down a hole if they think they need to until they finally get it working enough (they made no money on Xbox and didn't start making money on the Xbox 360 for years but do now) - and they have no choice but to do this and pour money down this hole and the WP hole - for years - until they get it right enough (not for domination but for some marketshare) - the alternative is to watch the growth of their main revenue driver, PC's, tail off and eventually start shrinking.
Apple has nothing to worry about here and I hope Microsoft can execute this...Google (android tablets) are the ones to be sweating this...
MS did pour a ton of money down a hole to get their game machine to run correctly and finally be well accepted, only to find the console game market morphing into a portable game market.
In an alternate reality where MS would have released the Surface product a couple years before Apple announced the iPad, the Surface might have gained some traction. Today, the Surface is "meh" in an "oh wow" world that prefers simplicity of design and function... not the whole damn thing and the kitchen sink too in your face and in your way.
No, he's the richest man in the world for figuring out you can create a business model around whoring out a totally shit operating system to everyone and their dog.
I have to disagree. I think it was mostly dumb luck.
I think Bill Gates' comments were entirely expected, and his advocacy of Surface isn't somehow an unbiased opinion (remember, Gates won't allow members of his family to buy Apple products like an iPod, no matter how much better the iPod is over a Zune).
And I would expect competitors to frame the debate according to their perceived strengths. Microsoft says you can run full Windows on a tablet that looks suspiciously like a laptop that needs a kickstand. Motorola claimed you Xoom would deliver Adobe Flash. RIM proclaimed amateur hour over. HP flew the TouchPad straight into the ground.
I have no doubt some people will not be happy with a tablet unless it requires antivirus scanners, fixing registry errors, and weekly reboots to satiate Windows Update, and weird DLL conflicts, and stupid, inane user experience like this actual message that I got trying to uninstall a service pack: "The removal of Microsoft Visual Studio 2010 Service Pack 1 may put this computer in an state in which projects cannot be loaded and Service Pack 1 cannot be reinstalled." Seriously, WTF? And if you install things in the wrong order, it can create strange problems. Uninstalling things in the wrong order can actually cause later uninstalls to fail (oh yes, I've seen it on my work PC). I'm not making this shit up; this is normal for Windows. I mean, no wonder there's keyboard in the cover: how else are you going to get this "tablet" to boot into safe mode when you can't press F8?
If this is the experience you want from a tablet, Microsoft has you covered.
You have t give MS an 'E' for effort. To think that you can actually cherry pick selected service packs to delete and fall back to is rather ambitious indeed. With Apple you better have a complete data backup because their only version of fixing problems for iOS is a full restore. Not saying that isn't a reasonable strategy it is just that MS tries to repair things that are unrepairable thus they get a bad reputation for needing a reformat HD to solve things where as Apple uses reformat as their first option so it doesn't seem like a last resort.
Hilarious. All you have to do is buy the "Logitech Ultrathin Keyboard Cover" for your iPad, and you have the Microsoft Surface.
And... you can run heavy-duty apps like Final Cut Pro, Office for Mac or Aperture on iPad "upgraded" with keyboard?
I think not.
Question that remains to be answered is, how many people need fully featured computer in a tablet form. Microsoft's own RT vs. Pro tablets sales will be good indicator. If Pro turns to be selling well, then yes - Apple could benefit from having MacBook Pro hardware in tablet format. Airs are nice and portable, but still laptops - not that easy to use while standing, for example, or in both landscape and portrait orientation. Or where freehand input (via touch-screen) is preferable to keyboard and touchpad.
Comments
Needs? Needs.
Needs to have a Surface-like device in order to do.... what, exactly? Apple doesn't seem to be at a point of need.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eksodos
Nobody knows yet. It's impossible to judge fairly until real people have the opportunity to use these new products and review them. But Microsoft Office is still very much a big deal for a lot of people.
I don't need to wait. The product isn't the problem...the business strategy is the problem (see my post 114). They have an enterprise device that at best will be sold through consumer channels (if at all). There is no way in hell Microsoft can compete with iPad from a manufacturing, marketing, and distribution standpoint. It will be about as successful as a 12 year old selling warm beer at a lemonade stand.
Sorry, but the business strategy is screwed up. I don't need to use the device to know that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
I welcome Microsoft to the tablet world, just as I welcomed them to the smartphone world.
Though what they think anyone would want with a desktop OS on a multitouch device is anyone's guess. They don't seem to have learned from the last decade.
I for one have been waiting 2 years before i can do anything significant on my iPad besides reading iMags/iNewsapers, looking at iPics, viewing iMovies.
An actual hands on user experience would be a relief <sigh>- besides playing iGames.
Looks like its about time for Microsoft to stage a funeral for the iPad, like they did for the iPhone...the hubris is on full display just like always...
The whole "new" form factor is utter nonsense, its a tablet that runs windows (like the ones they've had since XP but never sold much)...except this is the PR machine for Microsoft...this has to be "new" (even if its not) and "great" so they have a chance of selling it.
Question for Bill - will my WinPad run Norton Antivirus? And what's the effect on battery life of that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by agramonte
I care less about microsoft - and yes 90% of the people spend their time on web browsers... because 90% of the people make nothing - it is the rest that still to this day make the sites they look at, layout the e-magazines they read - design and build the apps they use. non of it is made on an iPAD or Mickey Mouse iOS
It is nice that that 90% that went no further past crayons are happy with IOS - but for the rest of us who actually do not waste that much time on doing nothing - it would be nice to also get a tablet device from Apple.
Take a look at photos of headquarter offices of top start-ups - Facebook, Twitter, FourSquare, Square, LinkedIn, Pandora, etc... They all use MacBooks and OSX. So, smarty, Apple has a solution for the creators as well
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasparilla
Question for Bill - will my WinPad run Norton Antivirus? And what's the effect on battery life of that?
As long as you can compute an Excel spreadsheet/edit a Word document - who the hell cares?
right, because microsoft is so on the cutting-edge of innovation that apple would need to feel that it needs to compete.
it is a well known fact that apple looks to itself as it's own competitor and attempts to outdo itself, not it's competitors—except when their technology is stolen (cough-android-cough).
Now all the words from Gates here aside, I think the WinPad stands a chance if Microsoft executes adequately (although with nothing but crashing prototypes that nobody got to play with in hand and two different versions of the WinPad at the starting gate its not looking good from a consumer confusion standpoint). Seems like they could take share from the little part of the market that Android owns as they are in such a sad state on tablets. There will be a group of dedicated windows users that will buy it as well (its a big market) and possibly have a WP phone to go with it.
It seems at this point Microsoft can finally see they and their share price will fade away over time if they don't get into the phone and tablet markets which is where the growth (future) is. Like the game console market, they can spend years and years pouring money down a hole if they think they need to until they finally get it working enough (they made no money on Xbox and didn't start making money on the Xbox 360 for years but do now) - and they have no choice but to do this and pour money down this hole and the WP hole - for years - until they get it right enough (not for domination but for some marketshare) - the alternative is to watch the growth of their main revenue driver, PC's, tail off and eventually start shrinking.
Apple has nothing to worry about here and I hope Microsoft can execute this...Google (android tablets) are the ones to be sweating this...
Yes, Apple has the best selling tablet by far! I think that they need to change their strategy. What on earth is Bill smoking?
Go back to your humanitarian efforts, you are really doing great work there - seriously you are.
We will see if it does any better this time around.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbit_Coach
Billy is a nice chap, but somehow I can't get rid of the feeling, that he just missed the train.
Billy just got off the short bus to miss the train... He's been away from the market a long time if he thinks the Surface has any appeal. Windows 8 may be a failure as well. Enterprise is happy with Windows 7 and there's nothing about Windows 8 compelling enough to upgrade to a screen full of LEGO blocks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasparilla
It seems at this point Microsoft can finally see they and their share price will fade away over time if they don't get into the phone and tablet markets which is where the growth (future) is. Like the game console market, they can spend years and years pouring money down a hole if they think they need to until they finally get it working enough (they made no money on Xbox and didn't start making money on the Xbox 360 for years but do now) - and they have no choice but to do this and pour money down this hole and the WP hole - for years - until they get it right enough (not for domination but for some marketshare) - the alternative is to watch the growth of their main revenue driver, PC's, tail off and eventually start shrinking.
Apple has nothing to worry about here and I hope Microsoft can execute this...Google (android tablets) are the ones to be sweating this...
MS did pour a ton of money down a hole to get their game machine to run correctly and finally be well accepted, only to find the console game market morphing into a portable game market.
In an alternate reality where MS would have released the Surface product a couple years before Apple announced the iPad, the Surface might have gained some traction. Today, the Surface is "meh" in an "oh wow" world that prefers simplicity of design and function... not the whole damn thing and the kitchen sink too in your face and in your way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSheldon
As long as you can compute an Excel spreadsheet/edit a Word document - who the hell cares?
Well, YOU would care if the power hog shut down before you could edit and save.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotScott
Needs? Needs.
Needs to have a Surface-like device in order to do.... what, exactly? Apple doesn't seem to be at a point of need.
More like, Microsoft needs Apple to compete with the Surface, namely, compete against Microsoft, using Microsoft's rules.
First rule: Nobody is allowed to make the iPad. [it's fair, Microsoft can't make the iPad either].
I have to disagree. I think it was mostly dumb luck.
It's wonderful! Marvelous! Just don't try to touch its one distinguishing feature, the keyboard.
Want to see every MS new product rollout?
FF to 2:00, ends at 2:39.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton
Here we go again.
I think Bill Gates' comments were entirely expected, and his advocacy of Surface isn't somehow an unbiased opinion (remember, Gates won't allow members of his family to buy Apple products like an iPod, no matter how much better the iPod is over a Zune).
And I would expect competitors to frame the debate according to their perceived strengths. Microsoft says you can run full Windows on a tablet that looks suspiciously like a laptop that needs a kickstand. Motorola claimed you Xoom would deliver Adobe Flash. RIM proclaimed amateur hour over. HP flew the TouchPad straight into the ground.
I have no doubt some people will not be happy with a tablet unless it requires antivirus scanners, fixing registry errors, and weekly reboots to satiate Windows Update, and weird DLL conflicts, and stupid, inane user experience like this actual message that I got trying to uninstall a service pack: "The removal of Microsoft Visual Studio 2010 Service Pack 1 may put this computer in an state in which projects cannot be loaded and Service Pack 1 cannot be reinstalled." Seriously, WTF? And if you install things in the wrong order, it can create strange problems. Uninstalling things in the wrong order can actually cause later uninstalls to fail (oh yes, I've seen it on my work PC). I'm not making this shit up; this is normal for Windows. I mean, no wonder there's keyboard in the cover: how else are you going to get this "tablet" to boot into safe mode when you can't press F8?
If this is the experience you want from a tablet, Microsoft has you covered.
You have t give MS an 'E' for effort. To think that you can actually cherry pick selected service packs to delete and fall back to is rather ambitious indeed. With Apple you better have a complete data backup because their only version of fixing problems for iOS is a full restore. Not saying that isn't a reasonable strategy it is just that MS tries to repair things that are unrepairable thus they get a bad reputation for needing a reformat HD to solve things where as Apple uses reformat as their first option so it doesn't seem like a last resort.
bottom line for BG:
when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty321
Hilarious. All you have to do is buy the "Logitech Ultrathin Keyboard Cover" for your iPad, and you have the Microsoft Surface.
And... you can run heavy-duty apps like Final Cut Pro, Office for Mac or Aperture on iPad "upgraded" with keyboard?
I think not.
Question that remains to be answered is, how many people need fully featured computer in a tablet form. Microsoft's own RT vs. Pro tablets sales will be good indicator. If Pro turns to be selling well, then yes - Apple could benefit from having MacBook Pro hardware in tablet format. Airs are nice and portable, but still laptops - not that easy to use while standing, for example, or in both landscape and portrait orientation. Or where freehand input (via touch-screen) is preferable to keyboard and touchpad.
A 3mm thick keyboard is cool, but from what I gather the keys don't give much more feedback than the iPad screen...