As ALL companies likely 'size up' their wares against the competition, and then seek to improve upon said competition's efforts.
Apple has made a complete industry out of doing exactly this... Inventing Nothing but Improving Upon What Others Already Created.
Mac OS was introduced in 1984 and Windows was introduced MUCH LATER. Yeah, Apple took Xerox's design, but they paid them money and hired the engineer that developed it.
IPad came first and these little Android wannbes came second.
IPhone was first with the touch screen interface that Android phones are copying.
Apple brought Plug and Play vs. Microsoft Plug and Pray.
I have to agree with this. I don't understand how Apple can be "inspired" by these ideas, yet Samsung is considered having done something wrong. And...why has none of this been brought up in the trial? The jury needs to know these things so that a reasonable decision can be made and both Apple and Samsung can stop wasting our hard earned $$$ paying armies of slime ball lawyers (yes I have friends and family who are lawyers and it does embarrass me).
Let's say you're back in the beginnings of Rock and you heard a guitar with distortion applied for the first time. You thought it sounded cool. So you used distortion on your guitar for a couple of songs you record. Inspiration is hearing a guitar with distortion and wanting to use that sound in your own songs. Copying is playing the same chords and arrangements as the song you heard and calling it your own.
However, I can see why people don't get this. Most of the Apple haters seem like nerds. The kids who did good in Math and Science in high school, but sucked at English or Literature because they couldn't read a poem and understand what it was really about. They have no creative ability whatsoever, and so can't even begin to comprehend the idea someone can be "inspired" by something already done without actually "copying" them.
Look at art. Various painters can be classified by their style. You have "techniques" like impressionism or pointillism. Several artists could use the same "techniques" but they still all created unique individual works of art. They were "inspired" but weren't "copying".
As ALL companies likely 'size up' their wares against the competition, and then seek to improve upon said competition's efforts.
Apple has made a complete industry out of doing exactly this... Inventing Nothing but Improving Upon What Others Already Created.
Since you think this is how the world works--that nobody really invents anything--they just improve upon the competition's efforts, that can only be interpreted as the highest compliment to Apple.
Seems like a cop out to me; aside from depriving yourself of the comedy value of those posters, I like to think that I am able to perform my own filtering on what I read and respond to. I'm deluding myself of course.
More power to you. I used to say the same thing. But there is a threshold to how much toxicity a person can take. At best, this category of posters are paid shills or simply bored out of their minds. At worst, rumors sites, especially Apple rumor sites, tend to attract individuals with mental illness science hasn't yet come out a name for.
That's a coincidence - my first Apple computer was also a IIc.
Interesting view on the discount issue. They still have their education discount website. Should they do more? I don't know - how do their discounts compare to the competition? From a purely business point of view, one could argue that they discount to increase demand, and if demand is high then no need to discount heavily. I'm not sure that I would judge a company by that metric, but I can see the argument.
On the price - I don't follow the reasoning. You think they have always been overpriced, yet you have always bought them. Doesn't that mean that your cost/benefit analysis concluded that they are worth it?
I would give a rat's arse about the discount if Apple didn't keep reducing it, while at the same time playing up the discount. If this turns into a "what are the others doing" idea so why should we do more (ie they want as much $$$) as possible, then Apple has just failed and become nothing more than another corporate clone and all their statements about caring about their customers and creating the best products is bunk.
The cost/benefit idea only works so far. Yes, a choice can be made based on the C/B analysis, but often the differences are very small. Sometimes you take the lesser of two evils. I buy gasoline for my car because I need it to run my vehicle. I do it, but I don't like it. I would much rather use a decent train system (especially after spending time in Tokyo). I sometimes have to eat fast food because my friends want a hamburger. I don't like it, but I do it. I bought Apple computers because I used to love Apple products, but now I buy them because they are a bit better than the competition. As it stands, I only own a three year old Mac Mini still running Snow Leopard. We have two iPhones. I would like to switch to a Galaxy Nexus, but most of my Jpop was purchased from the Japanese iTunes store and therefore still has DRM embedded in the files (grrrr). I am forced to either stay with the iTunes/iDevice ecosystem or repurchase all the music free of DRM (Zoinks!). There is no good solution to the issue. I, like many others, are stuck using the iTunes ecosystem and therefore am still in Apple's grip.
I think you can leave the ecosystem easily. Can't you just burn your music to CD and then re-import to your device of choice.
...and it appears that Apple had been 'inspired' by Samsung designs long before the iPhone ever existed:
<p style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-size:14px;margin-bottom:15px;line-height:23px;">In 2005 Samsung had just released the SGH-E910 "fashion phone" with a similar arrangement, and iPod head Tony Fadell sent an Engadget blog post about the phone to Jobs and other Apple execs. "Weird way to hold the cellphone," said Fadell, but using the round center control pad "seems comfortable." Upon seeing the design, Jobs was typically direct. "This may be our answer — we could put the number pad around our click wheel," he wrote to Jony Ive and Apple designer Bas Ording. "Of course we should orient it like a watch, with 3, 6, 9, and * in the pure horizontal and vertical positions, just like any clock." </p>
I think all of those things could be easily licensed easily enough.
So what should Apple do?
1. Pay the licensing fees for the FRAND patents.
¶ A So, the only issue is trade and dress. Should Samsung not be allowed to make black or white tablets? Should Samsung not be able to make a tablet that is as thin or thinner than the competition? Should Samsung not be able to use a glass touchscreen?
¶ B These are serious questions. At what point does Apple "own" the tablet design that uses black/white, rectangular shape, glass touchscreen panel, etc etc? Is Apple the ONLY company that can use this design. Must everyone else make an ugly looking tablet? I base the idea of attractiveness on what the customer expects. There are certain car designs elements that are expected in a sleek and sexy car. So if Toyota wants to make a sleek sports car must they avoid using smooth lines so as not to upset the other automobile manufacturers?
¶ C At some point this crap has to end.
In Reference to your ¶ A: NONE of those things are part of the trade dress patents that this case is about. Samsung so slavishly copied all of the things that make an iPad or iPhone unique from everything that came before. In doing so, Smasung copied the color and design of the icons. There are many ways of designing an icon to represent making a phone call besides how Apple designed it. This is just ONE of the trade dress Apple included in their patent, but Samsung couldn't think for themselves on even such a simple thing... there were in full bore COPY mode. The end-of-list bounce is another thing Apple included in their product. They thought it up, patented it to give their product some unique look and feel, and Samsung just ripped it off.
Samsung would have you believe it's all about rectangles, but that's just a misdirection that they know the weak of mind to fixate on and overlook the myriad of unique details of Apple's products that DID NOT exist until Apple included them into their patented design. Finally, it's the sum total of ALL the details that are Apple innovated that Samsung included into their own products that compound together to make the end product a stolen design.
In Reference to your ¶ B: You repeat the same tired list of your previous paragraph. Your weak mind is fixated on the misdirection Samsung is counting on you to gobble down hook, line, and sinker. The patent is in the details For example, there are certain details that define what the design lines that makes a Ford Mustang look like a Ford Mustang. This does not keep another designer from putting an air scoop in front of the rear tires on the side panels. But you know and see the difference between a Mustang detail and a Corvette detail. And THAT'S what trade dress is all about.
In Reference to your ¶ C: Before Apple entered the cell phone market a lot of copying was going on between manufacturers and no one was trying to put a stop to it and handsets were an unimaginative mess. It was so bad that RIM handsets were the best there was. Everyone was poised to copy the RIM handset. Manufacturers were uninspired to do anything innovative. Apple disrupted this stale and insipid market by spectacular innovation, and announced that the old ripping off of each other's designs was to be a thing of the past. Samsung is one of the slow learners. They have been caught with their hand in the cookie jar and instead of backing off, they want to dig in their heels and be allowed to do that they have been doing, and Apple is not going to roll over and take it. THAT'S how you get "this crap to stop."
Right now we are seeing this sense of entitlement going on in the banking and finance industry, and with some luck and a congress with some backbone we will root out and stop the industry corruption "crap" from continuing. Stuff like this doesn't stop until someone takes a hard stand, and I commend Apple for being a good example.
As ALL companies likely 'size up' their wares against the competition, and then seek to improve upon said competition's efforts.
Apple has made a complete industry out of doing exactly this... Inventing Nothing but Improving Upon What Others Already Created.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy
Why the **** are you here if you don't think Apple as a company deserves a shred of credit and don't like any of their products? I'm serious. Why? Why waste your time on an Apple fan site?
DaHarder spent days and nights (literally) on Engadget doing the same thing. This is nothing new. Google his name wrapped with quotation marks. You will literally see thousands (no joke) of negative Apple comments across the web.
He thinks owning a few Apple products makes his consistently hateful Apple views OK.
Highly selective? Your very first post in this thread is pure garbage and contributes nothing worthwhile to the discussion. In fact, I went back to a couple other recent threads and your first posts in those were crap too. So tell us, how is that "highly selective" when the firstwords out of your mouth are nothing more than a toilet flushing?
Arguing with DH is like pissing against the wind. He is a contrarian, which is fine, but he posts to stir shit and never to contribute meaningfullly to a discussion. He does what he does wholly without humor and charisma. Any thread he partakes in is unpleasant and unfriendly and usually about him. It's been going on for a long time. Ignore his comments and he usually does not post back in the same thread.
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Good riddance. Looking forward to engaging the rest of the community in a sane well reasoned discussions.
Well that list may grow, but there are good discussions to be had, even if some of the posters can be a bit prickly.
Since you think this is how the world works--that nobody really invents anything--they just improve upon the competition's efforts, that can only be interpreted as the highest compliment to Apple.
What DeHarder was describing is called "incremental design." It's quite common. Before Apple entered the phone and tablet markets incremental design was de rigueur. Remember the phones before the iPhone where trying to surf the internet was a total joke? Remember how almost impossible it was to download an optional app? Incremental design really never rethinks anything.
Innovative design, which is how Apple designs, comes at the problem differently and starts afresh. No keyboard?? Such an idea made the CEOs of MS and RIM laugh... they couldn't imagine such a thing.
Great advances don't come about incrementally. As Einstein said, "You cannot solve a problem with the same mentality that created it." I would add, you cannot even see a problem with the old mentality that created it.
What you are describing is called "incremental design." It's quite common. Before Apple entered the phone and tablet markets incremental design was de rigueur. Remember the phones before the iPhone where trying to surf the internet was a total joke? Remember how almost impossible it was to download an optional app? Incremental design really never rethinks anything.
Innovative design, which is how Apple designs, comes at the problem differently and starts afresh. No keyboard?? Such an idea made the CEOs of MS and RIM laugh... they couldn't imagine such a thing.
Great advances don't come about incrementally. As Einstein said, "You cannot solve a problem with the same mentality that created it." I would add, you cannot even see a problem with the old mentality that created it.
The problem with the industry as a whole right now is that it has gotten really lazy. All a business really needs is to do is provide a unique selling point. People will buy good products. Unfortunately, even companies with the resources to come up with potentially great products choose to spend time how they can find loopholes in the legal system instead.
It has to start with leadership. Samsung and their ilk produce leadership that has no ethics. They have to go. Ultimately responsible though, is Google, the "don't be evil" company, whether intentional or not, for setting the example on how not to do business. Or at least it shouldn't be.
You might want to take a long, hard look in the mirror, as his comments clearly apply to you, as well as several other of the fanatical bullies around here who feel their 'opinion' is the only valid 'opinion'.
How do his comments clearly to apply to anybody when he mentions neither a name nor has quoted anybody?
Reality is definitely what you make it, isn't it, DaHarder?
Are you having a little trouble finding those positive posts of yours?
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder
As ALL companies likely 'size up' their wares against the competition, and then seek to improve upon said competition's efforts.
Apple has made a complete industry out of doing exactly this... Inventing Nothing but Improving Upon What Others Already Created.
Mac OS was introduced in 1984 and Windows was introduced MUCH LATER. Yeah, Apple took Xerox's design, but they paid them money and hired the engineer that developed it.
IPad came first and these little Android wannbes came second.
IPhone was first with the touch screen interface that Android phones are copying.
Apple brought Plug and Play vs. Microsoft Plug and Pray.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing
I have to agree with this. I don't understand how Apple can be "inspired" by these ideas, yet Samsung is considered having done something wrong. And...why has none of this been brought up in the trial? The jury needs to know these things so that a reasonable decision can be made and both Apple and Samsung can stop wasting our hard earned $$$ paying armies of slime ball lawyers (yes I have friends and family who are lawyers and it does embarrass me).
Let's say you're back in the beginnings of Rock and you heard a guitar with distortion applied for the first time. You thought it sounded cool. So you used distortion on your guitar for a couple of songs you record. Inspiration is hearing a guitar with distortion and wanting to use that sound in your own songs. Copying is playing the same chords and arrangements as the song you heard and calling it your own.
However, I can see why people don't get this. Most of the Apple haters seem like nerds. The kids who did good in Math and Science in high school, but sucked at English or Literature because they couldn't read a poem and understand what it was really about. They have no creative ability whatsoever, and so can't even begin to comprehend the idea someone can be "inspired" by something already done without actually "copying" them.
Look at art. Various painters can be classified by their style. You have "techniques" like impressionism or pointillism. Several artists could use the same "techniques" but they still all created unique individual works of art. They were "inspired" but weren't "copying".
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder
As ALL companies likely 'size up' their wares against the competition, and then seek to improve upon said competition's efforts.
Apple has made a complete industry out of doing exactly this... Inventing Nothing but Improving Upon What Others Already Created.
Since you think this is how the world works--that nobody really invents anything--they just improve upon the competition's efforts, that can only be interpreted as the highest compliment to Apple.
More power to you. I used to say the same thing. But there is a threshold to how much toxicity a person can take. At best, this category of posters are paid shills or simply bored out of their minds. At worst, rumors sites, especially Apple rumor sites, tend to attract individuals with mental illness science hasn't yet come out a name for.
I think you can leave the ecosystem easily. Can't you just burn your music to CD and then re-import to your device of choice.
What? Oh...
Never mind.
Hmmm...perhaps it's time the quotes should offer the block list option too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing
So what is Samsung to do?
1. Don't use the bounce. OK.
2. Don't use the double tap. OK
3. Don't use a horizontal swipe to unlock. OK.
I think all of those things could be easily licensed easily enough.
So what should Apple do?
1. Pay the licensing fees for the FRAND patents.
¶ A So, the only issue is trade and dress. Should Samsung not be allowed to make black or white tablets? Should Samsung not be able to make a tablet that is as thin or thinner than the competition? Should Samsung not be able to use a glass touchscreen?
¶ B These are serious questions. At what point does Apple "own" the tablet design that uses black/white, rectangular shape, glass touchscreen panel, etc etc? Is Apple the ONLY company that can use this design. Must everyone else make an ugly looking tablet? I base the idea of attractiveness on what the customer expects. There are certain car designs elements that are expected in a sleek and sexy car. So if Toyota wants to make a sleek sports car must they avoid using smooth lines so as not to upset the other automobile manufacturers?
¶ C At some point this crap has to end.
In Reference to your ¶ A: NONE of those things are part of the trade dress patents that this case is about. Samsung so slavishly copied all of the things that make an iPad or iPhone unique from everything that came before. In doing so, Smasung copied the color and design of the icons. There are many ways of designing an icon to represent making a phone call besides how Apple designed it. This is just ONE of the trade dress Apple included in their patent, but Samsung couldn't think for themselves on even such a simple thing... there were in full bore COPY mode. The end-of-list bounce is another thing Apple included in their product. They thought it up, patented it to give their product some unique look and feel, and Samsung just ripped it off.
Samsung would have you believe it's all about rectangles, but that's just a misdirection that they know the weak of mind to fixate on and overlook the myriad of unique details of Apple's products that DID NOT exist until Apple included them into their patented design. Finally, it's the sum total of ALL the details that are Apple innovated that Samsung included into their own products that compound together to make the end product a stolen design.
In Reference to your ¶ B: You repeat the same tired list of your previous paragraph. Your weak mind is fixated on the misdirection Samsung is counting on you to gobble down hook, line, and sinker. The patent is in the details For example, there are certain details that define what the design lines that makes a Ford Mustang look like a Ford Mustang. This does not keep another designer from putting an air scoop in front of the rear tires on the side panels. But you know and see the difference between a Mustang detail and a Corvette detail. And THAT'S what trade dress is all about.
In Reference to your ¶ C: Before Apple entered the cell phone market a lot of copying was going on between manufacturers and no one was trying to put a stop to it and handsets were an unimaginative mess. It was so bad that RIM handsets were the best there was. Everyone was poised to copy the RIM handset. Manufacturers were uninspired to do anything innovative. Apple disrupted this stale and insipid market by spectacular innovation, and announced that the old ripping off of each other's designs was to be a thing of the past. Samsung is one of the slow learners. They have been caught with their hand in the cookie jar and instead of backing off, they want to dig in their heels and be allowed to do that they have been doing, and Apple is not going to roll over and take it. THAT'S how you get "this crap to stop."
Right now we are seeing this sense of entitlement going on in the banking and finance industry, and with some luck and a congress with some backbone we will root out and stop the industry corruption "crap" from continuing. Stuff like this doesn't stop until someone takes a hard stand, and I commend Apple for being a good example.
No - it's not a dial - those are buttons. DaHarder has discovered that Samsung invented buttons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder
As ALL companies likely 'size up' their wares against the competition, and then seek to improve upon said competition's efforts.
Apple has made a complete industry out of doing exactly this... Inventing Nothing but Improving Upon What Others Already Created.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy
Why the **** are you here if you don't think Apple as a company deserves a shred of credit and don't like any of their products? I'm serious. Why? Why waste your time on an Apple fan site?
DaHarder spent days and nights (literally) on Engadget doing the same thing. This is nothing new. Google his name wrapped with quotation marks. You will literally see thousands (no joke) of negative Apple comments across the web.
He thinks owning a few Apple products makes his consistently hateful Apple views OK.
Nah he wouldn't do that. None of these jokers would leave because this place is like Cheers to them.
Long time lurker of the front page. Never the comments/forum. Was extremely saddened to see Da Harder posted here. So my first move was....
Quote:
29 minutes ago
This post is hidden because the user is in your block list. (Click to show)
Good riddance. Looking forward to engaging the rest of the community in a sane well reasoned discussions.
Well that list may grow, but there are good discussions to be had, even if some of the posters can be a bit prickly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton
Since you think this is how the world works--that nobody really invents anything--they just improve upon the competition's efforts, that can only be interpreted as the highest compliment to Apple.
What DeHarder was describing is called "incremental design." It's quite common. Before Apple entered the phone and tablet markets incremental design was de rigueur. Remember the phones before the iPhone where trying to surf the internet was a total joke? Remember how almost impossible it was to download an optional app? Incremental design really never rethinks anything.
Innovative design, which is how Apple designs, comes at the problem differently and starts afresh. No keyboard?? Such an idea made the CEOs of MS and RIM laugh... they couldn't imagine such a thing.
Great advances don't come about incrementally. As Einstein said, "You cannot solve a problem with the same mentality that created it." I would add, you cannot even see a problem with the old mentality that created it.
Watch out for signs of Stockholm syndrome while reading quoted remarks by the same jokers.
The problem with the industry as a whole right now is that it has gotten really lazy. All a business really needs is to do is provide a unique selling point. People will buy good products. Unfortunately, even companies with the resources to come up with potentially great products choose to spend time how they can find loopholes in the legal system instead.
It has to start with leadership. Samsung and their ilk produce leadership that has no ethics. They have to go. Ultimately responsible though, is Google, the "don't be evil" company, whether intentional or not, for setting the example on how not to do business. Or at least it shouldn't be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder
You might want to take a long, hard look in the mirror, as his comments clearly apply to you, as well as several other of the fanatical bullies around here who feel their 'opinion' is the only valid 'opinion'.
How do his comments clearly to apply to anybody when he mentions neither a name nor has quoted anybody?
Reality is definitely what you make it, isn't it, DaHarder?
Are you having a little trouble finding those positive posts of yours?
When can we expect them?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder
Just because I happen to own dozens upon dozens of Apple products doesn't mean that they do no wrong.... It's a Tech Company, Not A Cult.
Fitting that as you zoom in on the Mac screen, the only distinguishable name you see is "Im_Not_A_Troll" lol