Probably a silly question, but are there any clear guidelines other than precedent for what can and cannot be prior art for a design patent? One obvious example - if something looks similar but, either in reality or fiction, has a different functionality, is that still potentially prior art?
Excluding precedent, the US patent office determines those guidelines using their own interpretation of US law to grant or deny patents. So there is precedent and there is interpretation of the law (a fancy phrase for an opinion). And if someone doesn't like the patent office's or the patent holder's "opinion", it can be submitted to a court of law for a "second opinion" using precedent as well.
If something looks similar but, either in reality or fiction, has a different functionality, it is not prior art. This is a rough example, but look at Apple Computer vs Apple Corps. Apple Computer was allowed to use "Apple" as logo and trademark even though Apple Records was using "Apple" prior. This is because the two companies have different functionality and couldn't be easily misconstrued as one being related to the other. This wasn't exactly a design patent issue but it is in the same spirit.
Another example, Star Trek TNG featured PADDs throughout their show, now Apple has the iPad on the market. The creators of Star Trek, if they even have the design patent, could sue Apple for a design patent violation, but seeing as how different the two devices are in functionality, marketing, and availability, in all likelihood the case would end in Apple's favor.
OK thanks - so it focusses on external design, but probably requires the prior device to be functionally similar, even though it may just be a fictional item. Interesting distinction, if somewhat contrived. It would rule out the Samsung digital picture frame argument though.
Using racial superiority to attack someone asking an honest question is low brow, sir.
Perhaps, but what I've read on AI board since 2010 are nearly mirrored of how things went on during Anti-Japanese campaign in 80's, the closer one will be the Anti-Bush fever during his second term. Switching Samsung and Microsoft with Republicans and Bush, and posts are identical to what I read on MoveOn.org and Detroit Unions pamplets kept in libraries when I wrote by degree's proposal.
The bile, the mood, the tone, the toxic, the emotion, they were all there then and they are here today. Alomst word by word sometimes.
I mentiond 80's Anti-Japanese syndrome because many posters here mentioned themselves they were there, active, during the early years of Apple. That makes it plausible many were there, and might even joined, the anti-Japanese movements of that time and still carried the grudges from the campuses to this day. They fought the Japs 40 years ago and lost. Now they looked at Koreans and told themselves' No, no, no! No again!' MoveOn.Org was, in that tiem, the outlet to express the sense of vulnerability, powerlessness and frustration of why everything they believed to be right and just, drilled into them from their university days, are on the losing side and nothing they campaigned, partitioned doesn't seem to change anything.
The same fear and frustations manifested itself again and again; first in Japanese cars killing American jobs, second Republicans taking their sense of power, third Samsung seems to be winning against American champion, Apple.
You know, maybe I'm not very good at explaining all this and perhaps most of you graduated with Science degree, so you won't have background knowledge of what I am saying either.
Does anyone here got something from Arts field, or better yet, graduated or done some papers on Social Science or Anthropology? Could you take a look at Apple vs. Samsung fans war and give us a description of what is going on here?
Here's what studentx said, "Apple has become so efficient a good chunk of those margins come simply from running a better supply chain."
I don't want to misconstrue what studentx pointed out but extrapolating from his point, I'd say that Apple's enormous purchasing power and superior supply chain allow the company to maintain luxury-level markups.
I believe that Apple is a luxury brand because they sell a premium product that commands markups that are higher than those of some top luxury auto brands and fashion brands. We can agree to disagree on this point, can't we? It's a subjective POV.
You stated: "It's pretty obvious that Apple is a luxury brand."
That is silly. A luxury brand is defined by its price, not its margins.
Lamborghini cars are clearly luxuries - even if their margin is low (due to the high cost of making cars one at a time). It's not impossible that Hyundai would have a higher margin than Lamborghini. Does that make Hyundai a luxury brand while Lamborghini is not?
A luxury brand is a product that is expensive compared to the competition and one which only the elite can own. Apple products today don't fit either definition. Several Apple products (iPhone, iPad, iPod) are clearly mainstream with mid to high double digit market shares. And, as shown above, most Apple products are very competitive on price.
If you have a mainstream product which is priced the same as the competition and has a 20-50% market share (depending on how you define the market) and you suddenly find a way to cut the manufacturing cost by 50%, it doesn't suddenly become a luxury brand simply because your costs have dropped.
I think you can leave the ecosystem easily. Can't you just burn your music to CD and then re-import to your device of choice.
Yes, but that degrades the quality of the music and due to the manner in which iTunes handles song data I would have a LOT of work ahead of me.
Also, Apple makes it so damned hard to leave by only giving the option burning to a physical CD as opposed to burning virtual CDs (can be done with 3rd party programs). Imagine having to burn a 700MB rewriteable CD 20 - 40 times. Zoinks!
Perhaps, but what I've read on AI board since 2010 are nearly mirrored of how things went on during Anti-Japanese campaign in 80's, the closer one will be the Anti-Bush fever during his second term. Switching Samsung and Microsoft with Republicans and Bush, and posts are identical to what I read on MoveOn.org and Detroit Unions pamplets kept in libraries when I wrote by degree's proposal.
The bile, the mood, the tone, the toxic, the emotion, they were all there then and they are here today. Alomst word by word sometimes.
I mentiond 80's Anti-Japanese syndrome because many posters here mentioned themselves they were there, active, during the early years of Apple. That makes it plausible many were there, and might even joined, the anti-Japanese movements of that time and still carried the grudges from the campuses to this day. They fought the Japs 40 years ago and lost. Now they looked at Koreans and told themselves' No, no, no! No again!' MoveOn.Org was, in that tiem, the outlet to express the sense of vulnerability, powerlessness and frustration of why everything they believed to be right and just, drilled into them from their university days, are on the losing side and nothing they campaigned, partitioned doesn't seem to change anything.
The same fear and frustations manifested itself again and again; first in Japanese cars killing American jobs, second Republicans taking their sense of power, third Samsung seems to be winning against American champion, Apple.
You know, maybe I'm not very good at explaining all this and perhaps most of you graduated with Science degree, so you won't have background knowledge of what I am saying either.
Does anyone here got something from Arts field, or better yet, graduated or done some papers on Social Science or Anthropology? Could you take a look at Apple vs. Samsung fans war and give us a description of what is going on here?
MoveOn.org was established in the late 90's, well after the 1980's, with an intention of defending a sitting Democratic US President. They are largely just against Republicans, and I don't believe they have any involvement outside of the US political system. Perhaps you're thinking of a different organization?
Unfortunately, I'm too young to recall anything personally about an anti-Japanese or anti-Asian movement in the 1980's and I haven't researched the subject at all to know of its veracity.
I do know there are small subcultures of xenophobia, isolationism, racism in the US directed at many ethnic groups, however I don't believe this website or the posters on its forum harbor ill will to the Asian people or Asian companies at large. You do have to concede that Americans will naturally champion an American company over a company of international origin, just as Koreans, Chinese, or Japanese peoples would champion companies of their national origin over companies of other nations.
All we have here is a debate with spirited opinions on what is or isn't legal according to US law in this particular case. If you frequented a pro-Google/Android website, you'd see the same debate most likely in reverse, with Apple, the American company, being trashed and bashed mostly by Americans themselves. If you went to a slightly more neutral website, such as Engadget (neutrality being relative), you'd see spirited opinions on both sides of the debate probably in equal proportion.
Does this mean Google/Android supporters are anti-American because they'd love to see Apple fail? No. The same applies here. Just because some posters here would love to see Samsung fail, at least in this US trial, that definitely doesn't mean they are anti-Korean.
OK, so I am not looking at the bunch of pass-it men wallowing at 'what could have been' on this board, right? Some of them here certainly cannot move on, still holding the grudge on Micrsoft for bringing Apple to near bankrupcy, and still retell stories like it happened yesterday...
I looked at some of them and cannot be helped to notice the similar feeling I saw from the past.
OK, so I am not looking at the bunch of pass-it men wallowing at 'what could have been' on this board, right? Some of them here certainly cannot move on, still holding the grudge on Micrsoft for bringing Apple to near bankrupcy, and still retell stories like it happened yesterday...
I looked at some of them and cannot be helped to notice the similar feeling I saw from the past.
Oh, I'm sure there are a bunch of people with grudges against one company or another on this forum, judging by some of the irrational comments for and against Apple. You shouldn't let it affect you as they can do no harm since most can see right through their hollow arguments.
Denison points out that a device with rounded-corners is simply logical, noting that "if you drop it, it's much more likely not to crack if it's rounded."
Somewhere, Microsoft and Nokia designers are saying "Oh. NOW you tell us. Back to the drawing board..."
Comments
OK thanks - so it focusses on external design, but probably requires the prior device to be functionally similar, even though it may just be a fictional item. Interesting distinction, if somewhat contrived. It would rule out the Samsung digital picture frame argument though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverpraxis
Using racial superiority to attack someone asking an honest question is low brow, sir.
Perhaps, but what I've read on AI board since 2010 are nearly mirrored of how things went on during Anti-Japanese campaign in 80's, the closer one will be the Anti-Bush fever during his second term. Switching Samsung and Microsoft with Republicans and Bush, and posts are identical to what I read on MoveOn.org and Detroit Unions pamplets kept in libraries when I wrote by degree's proposal.
The bile, the mood, the tone, the toxic, the emotion, they were all there then and they are here today. Alomst word by word sometimes.
I mentiond 80's Anti-Japanese syndrome because many posters here mentioned themselves they were there, active, during the early years of Apple. That makes it plausible many were there, and might even joined, the anti-Japanese movements of that time and still carried the grudges from the campuses to this day. They fought the Japs 40 years ago and lost. Now they looked at Koreans and told themselves' No, no, no! No again!' MoveOn.Org was, in that tiem, the outlet to express the sense of vulnerability, powerlessness and frustration of why everything they believed to be right and just, drilled into them from their university days, are on the losing side and nothing they campaigned, partitioned doesn't seem to change anything.
The same fear and frustations manifested itself again and again; first in Japanese cars killing American jobs, second Republicans taking their sense of power, third Samsung seems to be winning against American champion, Apple.
You know, maybe I'm not very good at explaining all this and perhaps most of you graduated with Science degree, so you won't have background knowledge of what I am saying either.
Does anyone here got something from Arts field, or better yet, graduated or done some papers on Social Science or Anthropology? Could you take a look at Apple vs. Samsung fans war and give us a description of what is going on here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
He's talking about you and your ilk, Zazzles. Not Apple fans.
Duh.
And don't forget Newtron.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerrySwitched26
Wait. Did you really just compare this website and its posters to "a white supremacy website" and to a "Godhatesfags" website?
Let me assure you, the posters on sites such as those are not nearly as irrational and nasty as the posters here.
I can't decide if your sensationalism, intended to be funny, was too early or too late. :-P
You stated: "It's pretty obvious that Apple is a luxury brand."
That is silly. A luxury brand is defined by its price, not its margins.
Lamborghini cars are clearly luxuries - even if their margin is low (due to the high cost of making cars one at a time). It's not impossible that Hyundai would have a higher margin than Lamborghini. Does that make Hyundai a luxury brand while Lamborghini is not?
A luxury brand is a product that is expensive compared to the competition and one which only the elite can own. Apple products today don't fit either definition. Several Apple products (iPhone, iPad, iPod) are clearly mainstream with mid to high double digit market shares. And, as shown above, most Apple products are very competitive on price.
If you have a mainstream product which is priced the same as the competition and has a 20-50% market share (depending on how you define the market) and you suddenly find a way to cut the manufacturing cost by 50%, it doesn't suddenly become a luxury brand simply because your costs have dropped.
Oh dear. There goes another iteration. There should be a prize for who first spots the next one.
I've been accused before.
Ok, game on, but you have to disqualify Tallest Skil, because he has access to the iP addresses. Maybe he will referee.
TS is a gentleman - he wouldn't cheat. But yes - he should referee.
The misplaced bold made it look like I was implying subterfuge on his part. See edited version above. I know he would be the paragon of judiciousness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry
I think you can leave the ecosystem easily. Can't you just burn your music to CD and then re-import to your device of choice.
Yes, but that degrades the quality of the music and due to the manner in which iTunes handles song data I would have a LOT of work ahead of me.
Also, Apple makes it so damned hard to leave by only giving the option burning to a physical CD as opposed to burning virtual CDs (can be done with 3rd party programs). Imagine having to burn a 700MB rewriteable CD 20 - 40 times. Zoinks!
Absolutely I'll referee! I'm the one that found his last three iterations, anyway.
Have at it. This should be fun.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fairthrope
Perhaps, but what I've read on AI board since 2010 are nearly mirrored of how things went on during Anti-Japanese campaign in 80's, the closer one will be the Anti-Bush fever during his second term. Switching Samsung and Microsoft with Republicans and Bush, and posts are identical to what I read on MoveOn.org and Detroit Unions pamplets kept in libraries when I wrote by degree's proposal.
The bile, the mood, the tone, the toxic, the emotion, they were all there then and they are here today. Alomst word by word sometimes.
I mentiond 80's Anti-Japanese syndrome because many posters here mentioned themselves they were there, active, during the early years of Apple. That makes it plausible many were there, and might even joined, the anti-Japanese movements of that time and still carried the grudges from the campuses to this day. They fought the Japs 40 years ago and lost. Now they looked at Koreans and told themselves' No, no, no! No again!' MoveOn.Org was, in that tiem, the outlet to express the sense of vulnerability, powerlessness and frustration of why everything they believed to be right and just, drilled into them from their university days, are on the losing side and nothing they campaigned, partitioned doesn't seem to change anything.
The same fear and frustations manifested itself again and again; first in Japanese cars killing American jobs, second Republicans taking their sense of power, third Samsung seems to be winning against American champion, Apple.
You know, maybe I'm not very good at explaining all this and perhaps most of you graduated with Science degree, so you won't have background knowledge of what I am saying either.
Does anyone here got something from Arts field, or better yet, graduated or done some papers on Social Science or Anthropology? Could you take a look at Apple vs. Samsung fans war and give us a description of what is going on here?
MoveOn.org was established in the late 90's, well after the 1980's, with an intention of defending a sitting Democratic US President. They are largely just against Republicans, and I don't believe they have any involvement outside of the US political system. Perhaps you're thinking of a different organization?
Unfortunately, I'm too young to recall anything personally about an anti-Japanese or anti-Asian movement in the 1980's and I haven't researched the subject at all to know of its veracity.
I do know there are small subcultures of xenophobia, isolationism, racism in the US directed at many ethnic groups, however I don't believe this website or the posters on its forum harbor ill will to the Asian people or Asian companies at large. You do have to concede that Americans will naturally champion an American company over a company of international origin, just as Koreans, Chinese, or Japanese peoples would champion companies of their national origin over companies of other nations.
All we have here is a debate with spirited opinions on what is or isn't legal according to US law in this particular case. If you frequented a pro-Google/Android website, you'd see the same debate most likely in reverse, with Apple, the American company, being trashed and bashed mostly by Americans themselves. If you went to a slightly more neutral website, such as Engadget (neutrality being relative), you'd see spirited opinions on both sides of the debate probably in equal proportion.
Does this mean Google/Android supporters are anti-American because they'd love to see Apple fail? No. The same applies here. Just because some posters here would love to see Samsung fail, at least in this US trial, that definitely doesn't mean they are anti-Korean.
OK, so I am not looking at the bunch of pass-it men wallowing at 'what could have been' on this board, right? Some of them here certainly cannot move on, still holding the grudge on Micrsoft for bringing Apple to near bankrupcy, and still retell stories like it happened yesterday...
I looked at some of them and cannot be helped to notice the similar feeling I saw from the past.
Could you translate that into English?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fairthrope
OK, so I am not looking at the bunch of pass-it men wallowing at 'what could have been' on this board, right? Some of them here certainly cannot move on, still holding the grudge on Micrsoft for bringing Apple to near bankrupcy, and still retell stories like it happened yesterday...
I looked at some of them and cannot be helped to notice the similar feeling I saw from the past.
Oh, I'm sure there are a bunch of people with grudges against one company or another on this forum, judging by some of the irrational comments for and against Apple. You shouldn't let it affect you as they can do no harm since most can see right through their hollow arguments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
Denison points out that a device with rounded-corners is simply logical, noting that "if you drop it, it's much more likely not to crack if it's rounded."
Somewhere, Microsoft and Nokia designers are saying "Oh. NOW you tell us. Back to the drawing board..."
johndoe88 showed some promise but seem to have disappeared. FR so far is tripping 25% of the meter, but he may be a version of another usual NPD here.