The waste was to reduce all those non-interchangable power adapters. Guess which company has use a USB-A port in the power adapters across PMPs, handsets and tablets for nearly a decade?
So, i can use the cord for the new iphone for my other electronics? SWEET! No? Then I guess this is a pointless endeavor on Apple's part. Is microusb not smaller than this already? PRETTY SURE it's either smaller or the same size.
So, i can use the cord for the new iphone for my other electronics? SWEET! No? Then I guess this is a pointless endeavor on Apple's part. Is microusb not smaller than this already? PRETTY SURE it's either smaller or the same size.
Yes, you can. The EU requires it for handsets, that's why the next iPhone's power adapter, an electronic, will have a standard plug that any vendor can use with whatever cable has USB-A, most likely.
Except that every other manufacturer of cell phones has adopted the MicroUSB standard to comply with very sensible EU requirements. Every manufacturer - smart phone, tablet, eReader - everyone EXCEPT Apple. But somehow, Apple has magic data that can't be transmitted in standard cables.
The whole point was to avoid all the silliness and waste that proprietary cables caused in the early PC and cell phone markets. The logic and the law of the USB standard has nothing to do with market domination.
The now obsolete 30 pin Apple connector is a prime example of exactly the kind of waste and market confusion the EU standard was set up to avoid. New Apple compatible products will now need two dock connectors to cover the market. OR adapters. 3 if they want to be compatible with Android devices. And now I need additional cables and adapters if I want to travel with my Apple products. What about business users who may have a mix of old & new Apple devices plus a blackberry, Android, or other USB device?
Yes, you can. The EU requires it for handsets, that's why the next iPhone's power adapter, an electronic, will have a standard plug that any vendor can use with whatever cable has USB-A, most likely.
"Why might Apple want to avoid micro-USB? Because charge and sync is about all micro-USB can do, on the face of it; the accessory support, line-level audio out, and video out features the current-day Dock connector sports aren't possible down a four-wire connector."
This is the most sensible reply i've heard yet. Accessory support is pretty important, but I don't see any shortcoming of accessory support for micro/mini USB devices. Seems google even used the port initially to power their first phones headphones. Admittedly, I don't know enough about plugs and ports and accessory needs, but MY point is that if they're doing a redo of the dock connector, and there werent limits that couldnt be circumvented while using USB standard ports, it would be dumb to just invent a new dock connector just to say you had a new one.
1) Your assertion is a bald face lie. MoU titled the initiative Common External Power Supply for a reason. Unfortunately you can't understand how a cord and a power supply are, and have no ability for critical thinking that you can't see that Apple splitting the PA from the cable for a decade in all their iDevices is Apple being far, far ahead of the curve.
2) You've failed to understand that Apple ha complied with the WU regulation with their Micro-USB-to-iPod-Dock-Connector adapter.
3) You wrote, "So, i can use the cord for the new iphone for my other electronics?" to which I replied that you can use your cord for the next iPhone (or their current PMPs, tablets and handset) in other PAs. The fact that you don't see the PA has have electronics within shows just how ignorant you 1) actually are or 2) how much you are trolling this site with your crap.
Why don't they just use a standard friggen connector? Didn't they come to some agreement with the EU that said they'd use the same microusb port all the other phones do so they could cut down on waste? WTF?
Please go read about why MicroUSB will not work for Dock Connector 2 before you start this false outrage.
Originally Posted by jeffreytgilbert
^-- this
Originally Posted by jeffreytgilbert
^-- this too
Nothing you're agreeing with is right.
Originally Posted by jeffreytgilbert
your opinion is garbage
At least it's right.
Originally Posted by jeffreytgilbert
Is microusb not smaller than this already? PRETTY SURE it's either smaller or the same size.
Size is meaningless.
Originally Posted by jeffreytgilbert
…I don't see any shortcoming of accessory support for micro/mini USB devices.
The video and audio downlinks, I guess you're ignoring.
Admittedly, I don't know enough about plugs and ports and accessory needs…
There you go! Now go read what MicroUSB and Dock Connector can do and then come back with an informed opinion (and probably apologize to Gazoobee).
…but MY point is that if they're doing a redo of the dock connector, and there weren't limits that couldn't be circumvented while using USB standard ports, it would be dumb to just invent a new dock connector just to say you had a new one.
Apple's sure known for doing 'dumb' things without purpose or point.
1) Your assertion is a bald face lie. MoU titled the initiative Common External Power Supply for a reason. Unfortunately you can't understand how a cord and a power supply are, and have no ability for critical thinking that you can't see that Apple splitting the PA from the cable for a decade in all their iDevices is Apple being far, far ahead of the curve.
2) You've failed to understand that Apple ha complied with the WU regulation with their Micro-USB-to-iPod-Dock-Connector adapter.
3) You wrote, "So, i can use the cord for the new iphone for my other electronics?" to which I replied that you can use your cord for the next iPhone (or their current PMPs, tablets and handset) in other PAs. The fact that you don't see the PA has have electronics within shows just how ignorant you 1) actually are or 2) how much you are trolling this site with your crap.
This is from a thread here on AI in 2009:
Quote:
"Given that the Dock Connector has long been Apple's standard on iPods and iPhones, and is now also vital to the iPhone 3.0 third-party accessories strategy, the company is likely to comply with the initiative by including a micro-USB adapter with iPhones sold in Europe."
It is worth noting I think that the initiative was to take effect January 2012 so this will be the first "smartphone" since the date. The initiative does not include tablets at this time.
Quote: "Given that the Dock Connector has long been Apple's standard on iPods and iPhones, and is now also vital to the iPhone 3.0 third-party accessories strategy, the company is likely to comply with the initiative by including a micro-USB adapter with iPhones sold in Europe."
Nice link but the article looks a little off. They elude to the charger having Micro-USB instead of USB-A, per the standard. It's the power cable that will have Micro-USB or have an adapter for Micro-USB available.
Per section 4.2.1 in the Memoradum of Understanding it sounds like the adapter doesn't have to be included with the device but can simply be available for sale
...If a manufacturer makes available an Adaptor from the Micro-USB connector of a Common EPS to a specific non-Micro-USB socket in the Mobile Phone, it shall constitute compliance to this article
To reiterate, the fact that Apple had the foresight to not only use the same design for all their handhelds and to design it for such a long term, but to also make the cable detachable from the EPS with a standard USB-A puts them so far ahead of the curve. It the rest of the industry had followed Apple with the USB-A EPS with detachable cable then this EU mandate would never have been drafted.
It is worth noting I think that the initiative was to take effect January 2012 so this will be the first "smartphone" since the date. The initiative does not include tablets at this time.
And they've been in compliance for a very long time. No big deal. They'll just release a Dock Connector 2 to MicroUSB adapter.
We spend so much time dealing with the stupid lies and/or ignorance of people who have to constantly be corrected before a proper discussion can be had that we sometimes don't ever get to discuss the real possibilities for the change. Why does Apple need to change the adapter now? Sure, it's smaller, but why now and not, say, when the iPad came out in 2010 which would have been a perfect time to start the transition without the shock of change.
I'm guessing there is tech that wasn't available then. Perhaps they do have internal electronics in the G6 iPhone that will intelligently push the different kinds of signaling needed for all their accessory types. If they could do that then could they also make it work with Thunderbolt? It could still use USB for data transfer but would have the higher Wattage for power which would make your Mac just as good as the wall adapter for the iPad. I know I'd like to carry one less electronic when on the road.
I think the bottom line is that 90% of the everyday needs of users can be accommodated with just USB. The specialized functions such as audio line level in/out will need to access more pins.
I think the bottom line is that 90% of the everyday needs of users can be accommodated with just USB. The specialized functions such as audio line level in/out will need to access more pins.
I'm not sure of your position on this matter. Are you saying that Apple should get rid of their dock connector and eschew the rest of the features that have made the iDevice ecosystem so successful?
On the point of audio line level in/out, for example, needing to access more pins if we are only getting 9 pins and it's coming right after USB 3.0 was added to some Macs I have to think that won't be on adapter or in the cable as separate pins. There is that rumour that it will use the headphone jack now that it's on the bottom but that's a kludge in every way as it limits future change of the iPhone and keeps the iPad and iPods out of that scenario. At this point, as complex and costly as it is if this 9-pin system is real then I don't see how they can't have a specialized component that will convert the signal and pins internal to the device before transmitting.
I'm not sure of your position on this matter. Are you saying that Apple should get rid of their dock connector and eschew the rest of the features that have made the iDevice ecosystem so successful?
On the point of audio line level in/out, for example, needing to access more pins if we are only getting 9 pins and it's coming right after USB 3.0 was added to some Macs I have to think that won't be on adapter or in the cable as separate pins. There is that rumour that it will use the headphone jack now that it's on the bottom but that's a kludge in every way as it limits future change of the iPhone and keeps the iPad and iPods out of that scenario. At this point, as complex and costly as it is if this 9-pin system is real then I don't see how they can't have a specialized component that will convert the signal and pins internal to the device before transmitting.
I think it will be 16+ pins auto detect and also that they will provide a Micro-USB adapter for Europe. The third party accessories will convert to this new dock plug. I do wonder if the adapter is provided, will they ship it with the wall charger only as an option in Europe. Obviously you will get the USB->Dock plug cable to connect it to your computer.
I think it will be 16+ pins auto detect and also that they will provide a Micro-USB adapter for Europe. The third party accessories will convert to this new dock plug.
It could be, but 16 (or 17 with external ground) would still be pushing it when you look at what can be removed from the the current 30-pin connector... and that's before you consider USB 3.0 over USB 2.0.
i do think it will be intelligent which does mean that even at 16(17) pins it could still be reversible. There could be a pin used for signaling that will tell the system which pins route where. I think you might be able to do this with just using the DC power connectors. You make their pin outs reversible and it uses that to determine how the plug is placed. Of course, this would all have to be managed within the iDevice itself.
I do wonder if the adapter is provided, will they ship it with the wall charger only as an option in Europe. Obviously you will get the USB->Dock plug cable to connect it to your computer.
Why wouldn't it be included? It has (and has had) the USB-A connector per the standard. I'm not sure why people think there is some issue here and why Apple hasn't been conforming when Apple is the company that has been least wasteful and most universal with their EPS.
If they stop shipping the wall charger I would imagine they'd stop shipping it for everywhere else, too, just like they'd done when they've minimized the inclusion of unused adapters in Macs long ago.
It could be, but 16 (or 17 with external ground) would still be pushing it when you look at what can be removed from the the current 30-pin connector... and that's before you consider USB 3.0 over USB 2.0.
i do think it will be intelligent which does mean that even at 16(17) pins it could still be reversible. There could be a pin used for signaling that will tell the system which pins route where. I think you might be able to do this with just using the DC power connectors. You make their pin outs reversible and it uses that to determine how the plug is placed. Of course, this would all have to be managed within the iDevice itself.
Why wouldn't it be included? It has (and has had) the USB-A connector per the standard. I'm not sure why people think there is some issue here and why Apple hasn't been conforming when Apple is the company that has been least wasteful and most universal with their EPS.
The pin out management could be done on the cable. If you notice the image in the article one of the male plug examples has a chip on the back of it.
I was speculating that in order to minimize electronic waste and charger redundancy, if a consumer already had other compatible wall chargers, they could opt out of buying more.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
Most of the arguments for "standardisation" given the situation the mobile market is in today just don't really apply IMO.
your opinion is garbage
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
The waste was to reduce all those non-interchangable power adapters. Guess which company has use a USB-A port in the power adapters across PMPs, handsets and tablets for nearly a decade?
So, i can use the cord for the new iphone for my other electronics? SWEET! No? Then I guess this is a pointless endeavor on Apple's part. Is microusb not smaller than this already? PRETTY SURE it's either smaller or the same size.
Yes, you can. The EU requires it for handsets, that's why the next iPhone's power adapter, an electronic, will have a standard plug that any vendor can use with whatever cable has USB-A, most likely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanVoyeur
Except that every other manufacturer of cell phones has adopted the MicroUSB standard to comply with very sensible EU requirements. Every manufacturer - smart phone, tablet, eReader - everyone EXCEPT Apple. But somehow, Apple has magic data that can't be transmitted in standard cables.
The whole point was to avoid all the silliness and waste that proprietary cables caused in the early PC and cell phone markets. The logic and the law of the USB standard has nothing to do with market domination.
The now obsolete 30 pin Apple connector is a prime example of exactly the kind of waste and market confusion the EU standard was set up to avoid. New Apple compatible products will now need two dock connectors to cover the market. OR adapters. 3 if they want to be compatible with Android devices. And now I need additional cables and adapters if I want to travel with my Apple products. What about business users who may have a mix of old & new Apple devices plus a blackberry, Android, or other USB device?
^-- this too
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Yes, you can. The EU requires it for handsets, that's why the next iPhone's power adapter, an electronic, will have a standard plug that any vendor can use with whatever cable has USB-A, most likely.
Does that look like a cord to you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rory Sinclair
Yes. Yes it would.
Please read: http://www.tuaw.com/2012/06/26/the-whys-and-wherefores-of-a-shrunken-dock-connector/ for details, but basically USB alone is not enough to do all the things they'd want a Dock port to do.
"Why might Apple want to avoid micro-USB? Because charge and sync is about all micro-USB can do, on the face of it; the accessory support, line-level audio out, and video out features the current-day Dock connector sports aren't possible down a four-wire connector."
This is the most sensible reply i've heard yet. Accessory support is pretty important, but I don't see any shortcoming of accessory support for micro/mini USB devices. Seems google even used the port initially to power their first phones headphones. Admittedly, I don't know enough about plugs and ports and accessory needs, but MY point is that if they're doing a redo of the dock connector, and there werent limits that couldnt be circumvented while using USB standard ports, it would be dumb to just invent a new dock connector just to say you had a new one.
1) Your assertion is a bald face lie. MoU titled the initiative Common External Power Supply for a reason. Unfortunately you can't understand how a cord and a power supply are, and have no ability for critical thinking that you can't see that Apple splitting the PA from the cable for a decade in all their iDevices is Apple being far, far ahead of the curve.
2) You've failed to understand that Apple ha complied with the WU regulation with their Micro-USB-to-iPod-Dock-Connector adapter.
3) You wrote, "So, i can use the cord for the new iphone for my other electronics?" to which I replied that you can use your cord for the next iPhone (or their current PMPs, tablets and handset) in other PAs. The fact that you don't see the PA has have electronics within shows just how ignorant you 1) actually are or 2) how much you are trolling this site with your crap.
Originally Posted by jeffreytgilbert
Why don't they just use a standard friggen connector? Didn't they come to some agreement with the EU that said they'd use the same microusb port all the other phones do so they could cut down on waste? WTF?
Please go read about why MicroUSB will not work for Dock Connector 2 before you start this false outrage.
Originally Posted by jeffreytgilbert
^-- this
Originally Posted by jeffreytgilbert
^-- this too
Nothing you're agreeing with is right.
Originally Posted by jeffreytgilbert
your opinion is garbage
At least it's right.
Originally Posted by jeffreytgilbert
Is microusb not smaller than this already? PRETTY SURE it's either smaller or the same size.
Size is meaningless.
Originally Posted by jeffreytgilbert
…I don't see any shortcoming of accessory support for micro/mini USB devices.
The video and audio downlinks, I guess you're ignoring.
Admittedly, I don't know enough about plugs and ports and accessory needs…
There you go! Now go read what MicroUSB and Dock Connector can do and then come back with an informed opinion (and probably apologize to Gazoobee).
…but MY point is that if they're doing a redo of the dock connector, and there weren't limits that couldn't be circumvented while using USB standard ports, it would be dumb to just invent a new dock connector just to say you had a new one.
Apple's sure known for doing 'dumb' things without purpose or point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
1) Your assertion is a bald face lie. MoU titled the initiative Common External Power Supply for a reason. Unfortunately you can't understand how a cord and a power supply are, and have no ability for critical thinking that you can't see that Apple splitting the PA from the cable for a decade in all their iDevices is Apple being far, far ahead of the curve.
2) You've failed to understand that Apple ha complied with the WU regulation with their Micro-USB-to-iPod-Dock-Connector adapter.
3) You wrote, "So, i can use the cord for the new iphone for my other electronics?" to which I replied that you can use your cord for the next iPhone (or their current PMPs, tablets and handset) in other PAs. The fact that you don't see the PA has have electronics within shows just how ignorant you 1) actually are or 2) how much you are trolling this site with your crap.
This is from a thread here on AI in 2009:
Quote:
"Given that the Dock Connector has long been Apple's standard on iPods and iPhones, and is now also vital to the iPhone 3.0 third-party accessories strategy, the company is likely to comply with the initiative by including a micro-USB adapter with iPhones sold in Europe."
http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/99973/apple-other-phone-makers-agree-on-standard-charger-for-europe
It is worth noting I think that the initiative was to take effect January 2012 so this will be the first "smartphone" since the date. The initiative does not include tablets at this time.
Nice link but the article looks a little off. They elude to the charger having Micro-USB instead of USB-A, per the standard. It's the power cable that will have Micro-USB or have an adapter for Micro-USB available.
Per section 4.2.1 in the Memoradum of Understanding it sounds like the adapter doesn't have to be included with the device but can simply be available for sale
To reiterate, the fact that Apple had the foresight to not only use the same design for all their handhelds and to design it for such a long term, but to also make the cable detachable from the EPS with a standard USB-A puts them so far ahead of the curve. It the rest of the industry had followed Apple with the USB-A EPS with detachable cable then this EU mandate would never have been drafted.
OS X Lion Recovery Drive.
Originally Posted by mstone
http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/99973/apple-other-phone-makers-agree-on-standard-charger-for-europe
It is worth noting I think that the initiative was to take effect January 2012 so this will be the first "smartphone" since the date. The initiative does not include tablets at this time.
http://store.apple.com/uk/product/MD099ZM/A
And they've been in compliance for a very long time. No big deal. They'll just release a Dock Connector 2 to MicroUSB adapter.
We spend so much time dealing with the stupid lies and/or ignorance of people who have to constantly be corrected before a proper discussion can be had that we sometimes don't ever get to discuss the real possibilities for the change. Why does Apple need to change the adapter now? Sure, it's smaller, but why now and not, say, when the iPad came out in 2010 which would have been a perfect time to start the transition without the shock of change.
I'm guessing there is tech that wasn't available then. Perhaps they do have internal electronics in the G6 iPhone that will intelligently push the different kinds of signaling needed for all their accessory types. If they could do that then could they also make it work with Thunderbolt? It could still use USB for data transfer but would have the higher Wattage for power which would make your Mac just as good as the wall adapter for the iPad. I know I'd like to carry one less electronic when on the road.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
I think the bottom line is that 90% of the everyday needs of users can be accommodated with just USB. The specialized functions such as audio line level in/out will need to access more pins.
I'm not sure of your position on this matter. Are you saying that Apple should get rid of their dock connector and eschew the rest of the features that have made the iDevice ecosystem so successful?
On the point of audio line level in/out, for example, needing to access more pins if we are only getting 9 pins and it's coming right after USB 3.0 was added to some Macs I have to think that won't be on adapter or in the cable as separate pins. There is that rumour that it will use the headphone jack now that it's on the bottom but that's a kludge in every way as it limits future change of the iPhone and keeps the iPad and iPods out of that scenario. At this point, as complex and costly as it is if this 9-pin system is real then I don't see how they can't have a specialized component that will convert the signal and pins internal to the device before transmitting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
I'm not sure of your position on this matter. Are you saying that Apple should get rid of their dock connector and eschew the rest of the features that have made the iDevice ecosystem so successful?
On the point of audio line level in/out, for example, needing to access more pins if we are only getting 9 pins and it's coming right after USB 3.0 was added to some Macs I have to think that won't be on adapter or in the cable as separate pins. There is that rumour that it will use the headphone jack now that it's on the bottom but that's a kludge in every way as it limits future change of the iPhone and keeps the iPad and iPods out of that scenario. At this point, as complex and costly as it is if this 9-pin system is real then I don't see how they can't have a specialized component that will convert the signal and pins internal to the device before transmitting.
I think it will be 16+ pins auto detect and also that they will provide a Micro-USB adapter for Europe. The third party accessories will convert to this new dock plug. I do wonder if the adapter is provided, will they ship it with the wall charger only as an option in Europe. Obviously you will get the USB->Dock plug cable to connect it to your computer.
It could be, but 16 (or 17 with external ground) would still be pushing it when you look at what can be removed from the the current 30-pin connector... and that's before you consider USB 3.0 over USB 2.0.
i do think it will be intelligent which does mean that even at 16(17) pins it could still be reversible. There could be a pin used for signaling that will tell the system which pins route where. I think you might be able to do this with just using the DC power connectors. You make their pin outs reversible and it uses that to determine how the plug is placed. Of course, this would all have to be managed within the iDevice itself.
Why wouldn't it be included? It has (and has had) the USB-A connector per the standard. I'm not sure why people think there is some issue here and why Apple hasn't been conforming when Apple is the company that has been least wasteful and most universal with their EPS.
If they stop shipping the wall charger I would imagine they'd stop shipping it for everywhere else, too, just like they'd done when they've minimized the inclusion of unused adapters in Macs long ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
It could be, but 16 (or 17 with external ground) would still be pushing it when you look at what can be removed from the the current 30-pin connector... and that's before you consider USB 3.0 over USB 2.0.
i do think it will be intelligent which does mean that even at 16(17) pins it could still be reversible. There could be a pin used for signaling that will tell the system which pins route where. I think you might be able to do this with just using the DC power connectors. You make their pin outs reversible and it uses that to determine how the plug is placed. Of course, this would all have to be managed within the iDevice itself.
Why wouldn't it be included? It has (and has had) the USB-A connector per the standard. I'm not sure why people think there is some issue here and why Apple hasn't been conforming when Apple is the company that has been least wasteful and most universal with their EPS.
The pin out management could be done on the cable. If you notice the image in the article one of the male plug examples has a chip on the back of it.
I was speculating that in order to minimize electronic waste and charger redundancy, if a consumer already had other compatible wall chargers, they could opt out of buying more.