You make some very clever, totally believable, and not-in-any-way-silly, points.
And don't forget that the F700 was constructed from materials that were various colours, which the iPhone also was, not to mention both being made out of atoms.
You've really thrown some light on this whole issue for me...
Why belittle my argument with nothing but sarcasm? Apple's argument is that Samsung outright copied key characteristics, yet this phone is proof that at least some of those characteristics existed in Samsung products prior to the iPhone. The characteristics I named were ones that Apple claims Samsung blatantly ripped off in order to confuse customers. You'll hear no argument from me that software wise they followed Apple's design cues far too closely, but in the hardware aspect they have a case that their design was constructed in house. Just because they copied on aspect does not mean that they should be charged for the full monty.
In the case you weren't being fecetious, the exterior materials were not various colors, on either phone, and I fail to see how being constructed of atoms is relevant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphonious
I had an F700. Trust me - there's no chance of confusing it with an iPhone. Not in terms of hardware, and most definitely not in terms of software. Awful phone.
The argument here is not whether you would ever confuse the two phones, the argument is that physical design cues used in Galaxy S existed in Samsung products prior to the iPhone. If this argument is accepted, than it would mean that Apple's case against Samsung can only be fought on a software level.
Before Apple announced Iphone in early 2007, most cellphone manufacturers had released "rectangle with rounded corners" as early as 2003. Nokia released 6030 and 6708 in Q1 2005. Motorola had several models released in 2002 and 2003 [c331/333, e380]. Sony Ericsson had also released many of models with "rectangle with rounded corners" characteristics since 2005. LG produced C2600 in 2006. And many other manufacturers had released phones prior to 2007 with similar characteristics as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckVader
The argument here is not whether you would ever confuse the two phones, the argument is that physical design cues used in Galaxy S existed in Samsung products prior to the iPhone. If this argument is accepted, than it would mean that Apple's case against Samsung can only be fought on a software level.
To put it bluntly, if Apple put too much emphasis on Samsung's infringement of the patented "rectangle with rounded corners" thingy, Doubts will simmer on jurors' mind that Apple will lose the case outright. However, if Apple stresses so much more on the IOS side of Samsung's infringement, Samsung will have a hard time to rebut it- a blowout for Apple.
A bowl of water? Can Samsung get any more desperate to show it's not copying & ripping off Apple designs?
I think Apple should use this in their closing arguments. Place an iPhone, an F700, and a bowl of water on a table and tell the jury "one of these things is not like the other" - and ask the jury which one it is.
I would say there is plenty of doubt.
Are there elements of the iPhone 3gs' design in the Galaxy S, yes, absolutely, unequivocally.
Is it designed from the ground up to be an absolute clone of the iPhone? I would say no, and that is what the F700 represents. It shows that they may have come a little too close to Apple's design, but its not as if that general shape and form was unprecedented for Samsung.
Samsung is definitely in the wrong here, but the F700 is certainly a strong piece of evidence on Samsung's side.
Not at all.
The iPhone came out just before the F700. One can argue that the F700 design was largely complete before the iPhone came out - and that might even be a factual argument.
However, after the F700 came out, Samsung spent a lot of time comparing their phones to the iPhone and then making their phones consistently look more like the iPhone. In virtually every comparison where they found their phones to be deficient, they copied the iPhone - so the NEXT generation of Samsung phones were near exact copies.
In fact, the evidence makes Samsung look even worse. They showed early on that there were other ways to design a phone, yet they threw out all the innovative designs and chose a design that was nearly indistinguishable from the iPhone.
Yes, I definitely see the resemblance to a bowl of water..
Wait- what!??
Seriously Samsung needs to lay off with this F700 thing. It's embarrassing, especially since they seem to believe it's their strongest card. Quite the opposite, it utterly proves Apple's argument that Samsung was NOT working on anything like the iPhone before the iPhone, since this phone has nothing in common with the concept of the iPhone. It's black? Is that their argument? I don't get it. It has a damn slideout keyboard and the UI couldnt have looked more different than iOS. Nobody gives a shit what it was inspired by, because it's utterly irrelevant to their defence.
I agree that the F700 isn't the same look since its a slider etc. What I think Samsung is going for is to say that future phone generations took the shape of the F700. If you remove the slider part away, the phone is half as think and starts to resemble the iPhone somewhat. My guess is that they then will say this was natural design progression when moving to a larger touch screen/keyboard interface. Grasping at straws but trying.
Comments
You've summed up Samsung's argument in this regard fairly nicely, at least.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR
You make some very clever, totally believable, and not-in-any-way-silly, points.
And don't forget that the F700 was constructed from materials that were various colours, which the iPhone also was, not to mention both being made out of atoms.
You've really thrown some light on this whole issue for me...
Why belittle my argument with nothing but sarcasm? Apple's argument is that Samsung outright copied key characteristics, yet this phone is proof that at least some of those characteristics existed in Samsung products prior to the iPhone. The characteristics I named were ones that Apple claims Samsung blatantly ripped off in order to confuse customers. You'll hear no argument from me that software wise they followed Apple's design cues far too closely, but in the hardware aspect they have a case that their design was constructed in house. Just because they copied on aspect does not mean that they should be charged for the full monty.
In the case you weren't being fecetious, the exterior materials were not various colors, on either phone, and I fail to see how being constructed of atoms is relevant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphonious
I had an F700. Trust me - there's no chance of confusing it with an iPhone. Not in terms of hardware, and most definitely not in terms of software. Awful phone.
The argument here is not whether you would ever confuse the two phones, the argument is that physical design cues used in Galaxy S existed in Samsung products prior to the iPhone. If this argument is accepted, than it would mean that Apple's case against Samsung can only be fought on a software level.
Before Apple announced Iphone in early 2007, most cellphone manufacturers had released "rectangle with rounded corners" as early as 2003. Nokia released 6030 and 6708 in Q1 2005. Motorola had several models released in 2002 and 2003 [c331/333, e380]. Sony Ericsson had also released many of models with "rectangle with rounded corners" characteristics since 2005. LG produced C2600 in 2006. And many other manufacturers had released phones prior to 2007 with similar characteristics as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckVader
The argument here is not whether you would ever confuse the two phones, the argument is that physical design cues used in Galaxy S existed in Samsung products prior to the iPhone. If this argument is accepted, than it would mean that Apple's case against Samsung can only be fought on a software level.
To put it bluntly, if Apple put too much emphasis on Samsung's infringement of the patented "rectangle with rounded corners" thingy, Doubts will simmer on jurors' mind that Apple will lose the case outright. However, if Apple stresses so much more on the IOS side of Samsung's infringement, Samsung will have a hard time to rebut it- a blowout for Apple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR
So, just for the record.
According to Samsung these AREN'T the same:
But these ARE:
Did I get that correct?
Yes you did. What Samsung implied was that they saw a reflection of another phone in the bowl of water.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LizSandford
Typically awful AI story.
Typically useless troll...
I think Apple should use this in their closing arguments. Place an iPhone, an F700, and a bowl of water on a table and tell the jury "one of these things is not like the other" - and ask the jury which one it is.
darn - jpellino beat me to it.
Not at all.
The iPhone came out just before the F700. One can argue that the F700 design was largely complete before the iPhone came out - and that might even be a factual argument.
However, after the F700 came out, Samsung spent a lot of time comparing their phones to the iPhone and then making their phones consistently look more like the iPhone. In virtually every comparison where they found their phones to be deficient, they copied the iPhone - so the NEXT generation of Samsung phones were near exact copies.
In fact, the evidence makes Samsung look even worse. They showed early on that there were other ways to design a phone, yet they threw out all the innovative designs and chose a design that was nearly indistinguishable from the iPhone.
How about:
Inspired by a bowl of water? With all the crap samsung is pulling, it's more likely a toilet bowl.
Yes. Snow Galaxy ~ not copied from Apple OK!!! /s
Wrong race dude.
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualZone
Yeah, after a bit too much saki. lol
Originally Posted by sr2012
Wrong race dude.
The well-learned man meant "soju"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy
Yes, I definitely see the resemblance to a bowl of water..
Wait- what!??
Seriously Samsung needs to lay off with this F700 thing. It's embarrassing, especially since they seem to believe it's their strongest card. Quite the opposite, it utterly proves Apple's argument that Samsung was NOT working on anything like the iPhone before the iPhone, since this phone has nothing in common with the concept of the iPhone. It's black? Is that their argument? I don't get it. It has a damn slideout keyboard and the UI couldnt have looked more different than iOS. Nobody gives a shit what it was inspired by, because it's utterly irrelevant to their defence.
I agree that the F700 isn't the same look since its a slider etc. What I think Samsung is going for is to say that future phone generations took the shape of the F700. If you remove the slider part away, the phone is half as think and starts to resemble the iPhone somewhat. My guess is that they then will say this was natural design progression when moving to a larger touch screen/keyboard interface. Grasping at straws but trying.