Says who? The same analysts who vastly overestimated Samsung's pitiful tablet sales? And no, Apple does not need to come out with an iPad mini to survive. Your opinion on this matter is based on what exactly?
I don't think they need to do it to either survive or maintain leadership/ But Apple could make more money by releasing one.
Not sure why the press or fanboys feel the need to paint this as a "X company released an iPad killer" or "Apple's going out of business" or "iPad sales are X more than _____ so there!!!"
iPad leads the market. No question. But millions of people bought 7" tablets at a cheap price without the Apple brand on it to suggest that it's probably worth considering.
You're right, none of what he says matters. None. You know we're talking about a global, multi-billion dollar company here, right? How can you say none of that matters? You think all that shit doesn't factor in? Of course, it will have to be a fundamentally good product in addition to all that, which for some insane reason you don't believe Apple is capable of pulling off, after all they've done in their history.
Quote:
Probably the latter, minus the "trolling". Even the worst product in the world based on the most idiotic decision in the world can make money. That doesn't make it a good product and the right decision. Look at Microsoft. Look at what the Web is still rebuilding after.
You admit that you plan to shit up every thread here even if the products are insanely successful, are loved by consumers, and get extremely high critical reviews, because YOU believe it's an idiotic decision based on your irrational world view and criteria. Wow. The sad part is, there's no chance in hell you will actually asess the product by its actual merits when its released, then reasees your opinion. No, the product itself will be irrelevant, the only thing relevant is 'sticking to your guns'. And then a nonsensical comparison to Microsoft, just because it sounds cool or something, right? Comparing a potential iPad mini with Microsofts web standards? Right.. Gotcha!
Quote:
And yet when I do the same, you say it's the worst possible thing in the world. Funny how that works. Almost makes me think you've no objectivity at all.
I was talking about SJ and having a vision. You're comparing yourself to him? Since when is being insanely close-minded and staunchly stubborn equal to having a vision? SJ changed his tune all the time, and let others convince him that something is a good decision EVEN while he was originally against it. It's the hallmarks of a great leader, someone always willing to reasess his opinions based on changing variables, and not stuck to a rigid ideology for the hell of it. Something you clearly lack, yet it's cute that you seem to think that your attitude constitutes a vision. Very cute.
You're a 'global' moderator. When the hell are you going to start acting like one? All I see you do here is let blatant trolls run free, revelling in the havoc they cause, and deride/mock the intelligent posters who put effort and thought behind their posts, because they might not share your black/white world view. Not once have I ever seen you have a 'moderating' affect on this forum. Clearly you got the title through post count only, which is sad.
Of course, it will have to be a fundamentally good product in addition to all that, which for some insane reason you don't believe Apple is capable of pulling off, after all they've done in their history.
Even Apple (Jobs) admitted they don't know how to design a $500 computer that doesn't suck. They know they have limits.
You admit that you plan to shit up every thread here even if the products are insanely successful, are loved by consumers, and get extremely high critical reviews, because YOU believe it's an idiotic decision based on your irrational world view and criteria. Wow.
You'll notice I did exactly the opposite.
I was talking about SJ and having a vision. You're comparing yourself to him?
So no one can have a vision except Steve Jobs, in your world. Got it.
Since when is being insanely close-minded and staunchly stubborn equal to having a vision?
Since I'm not, probably.
Note that when you decide to build a new type of boat, you don't waste your time figuring out how best to pour rubber for tires.
I've changed my mind plenty of times. I still hate the idea of a wider phone screen, but I'm open to trying out the 6th iPhone's orientation (even though I also hate 16:9). I abhor the idea of a 7.85" iPad, even though I think there's a strong possibility it could exist this fall. So because it exists, I'm supposed to start loving it unquestioningly? Or I'm supposed to suddenly understand why it exists at all?
Next you'll be telling me that I have always thought iPod socks were a good idea.
It blows my mind how man people are pimping the Surface before they've even had a chance to use it. Wired is the latest:
http://www.wired.com/business/2012/08/column_microsoft The gorgeous PC/tablet hybrid is the only example in recent memory of a company clearly and emphatically going toe to toe with Apple on the industrial design front. The iPad will have to improve. Android tablets will have to improve. Surface isn’t another me-too device — it moves the entire category forward.
Hyperbole much? I swear these people are being paid by MS to spout this garbage,
The gorgeous PC/tablet hybrid is the only example in recent memory of a company clearly and emphatically going toe to toe with Apple on the industrial design front. The iPad will have to improve. Android tablets will have to improve. Surface isn’t another me-too device — it moves the entire category forward.
Hyperbole much? I swear these people are being paid by MS to spout this garbage,
You been around the past few years? Every single device that has gone against the iPhone/iPad has been pimped by the media as a potential 'X-Killer'. They need to create drama. Aknowledging that the iPad will probably stay dominant would be boring.
Except those numbers don't reflect the Nexus 7. These Samsung estimates have now been proven completely false. Unless Samsung sold 2.2 million tablets outside the USA, which is beyond preposterous that they sell everything outside the USA and virtually none inside. It's pretty clear that Samsung has close to 0% of the market, at best. I suspect the others are not so different. There is no "tablet market". There's only an "iPad market". The others are just outliers, with the Kindle Fire being the most common of them. Whether the Nexus 7 gains any real market traction - despite whether it's a good device or not - is still unknown.
That is because samsung "cook" the sales data.
Samsuck classifies Shipped to distributors as SALES and the galaxy note phablet is included in samsung's tablet sales manipulation data.
Apple almost sell as much as they can produce off the production line but samsung have of UNSOLD Notes and tabs gathering dust in warehouses across the country. That is the driving force behind samsung "shipped" instead of sold data.
If the Touch gains a larger screen, why bother with an iPad Mini. A larger Touch makes sense and if Apple plans to offer such a product, the rumoured Mini seems rather pointless.
Of course, if there is no Mini announced next month, there will be claims that Apple has somehow failed but it should be remembered that any public comments from Apple regarding a 7-inch tablet have been negative in nature.
Make the Touch larger and future iPads lighter. Do that and the 7-inch tablet is rendered utterly pointless. The former seems like a logical progression, rendering the latter questionable.
If the Touch gains a larger screen, why bother with an iPad Mini. A larger Touch makes sense and if Apple plans to offer such a product, the rumoured Mini seems rather pointless.
See, that's what I'd really like. Have the 6th iPhone be these cases we're seeing now and have the new iPod touch be the design that we saw for the "iPhone 5" last year. Same screen ratio, same resolution, thinner package, just like every iPod touch before it.
Of course, if there is no Mini announced next month, there will be claims that Apple has somehow failed but it should be remembered that any public comments from Apple regarding a 7-inch tablet have been negative in nature.
No, the sites that were certain there would be an iPad mini will simply ignore the fact that they have ever gotten it wrong before at any time in any capacity, delete all their old posts about it to hide the information, and say that they're certain it will be coming out the next time Apple has an event.
We saw it happen with the iPhone nano, we saw it happen with the Verizon iPhone. ????
Make the Touch larger and future iPads lighter. Do that and the 7-inch tablet is rendered utterly pointless. The former seems like a logical progression, rendering the latter questionable.
Bingo. The iPad is ONLY going to get bigger, and a big part of the start of that will be making the existing model even lighter. When the 9.7" model is just barely under a pound (let's say .95 lbs.), the fact that the 15" is 1.6 lbs. really does become less of a concern.
The gorgeous PC/tablet hybrid is the only example in recent memory of a company clearly and emphatically going toe to toe with Apple on the industrial design front. The iPad will have to improve. Android tablets will have to improve. Surface isn’t another me-too device — it moves the entire category forward.
Hyperbole much? I swear these people are being paid by MS to spout this garbage,
The sole purpose of the Surface is to bully the OEMs into building a machine that could compete with the iPad. MS is saying that unless they step up then they'll do it themselves. This is fine until you look at the reason why the OEMs can't build something like an iPad: cost. By the time they've sourced materials (in supply chain stitched up by Tim Cook) and paid for the Windows license, then the price of the machine is heading towards 'unattractive.'
And MS knows this, which is why they're going to limit sales of the Surface as much as they can. I suspect they'll be making a loss on each one (I could be wrong though; the specs are still pretty much up in the air).
The x86 model looks good, but once you've attached the keyboard, it's about the same thickness as a Macbook Air.
See, that's what I'd really like. Have the 6th iPhone be these cases we're seeing now and have the new iPod touch be the design that we saw for the "iPhone 5" last year. Same screen ratio, same resolution, thinner package, just like every iPod touch before it.
No, the sites that were certain there would be an iPad mini will simply ignore the fact that they have ever gotten it wrong before at any time in any capacity, delete all their old posts about it to hide the information, and say that they're certain it will be coming out the next time Apple has an event.
We saw it happen with the iPhone nano, we saw it happen with the Verizon iPhone. ????
Bingo. The iPad is ONLY going to get bigger, and a big part of the start of that will be making the existing model even lighter. When the 9.7" model is just barely under a pound (let's say .95 lbs.), the fact that the 15" is 1.6 lbs. really does become less of a concern.
The problem I could see with a larger iPad would be that it would be awkward to hold, even if relatively light. The other issue is, what sort of resolution would be needed to make a 15-inch screen qualify as a Retina, as Apple defines it. Being as a tablet is held closer than a laptop woud be, the resolution would have to be boosted accordingly. On the other hand, we're talking a few years down the road.
For the next few years, making the iPad progressively lighter would seem like the logical next step. Doing so would deal a serious blow to any of the smaller challengers, anemic as they already are.
The sole purpose of the Surface is to bully the OEMs into building a machine that could compete with the iPad. MS is saying that unless they step up then they'll do it themselves. This is fine until you look at the reason why the OEMs can't build something like an iPad: cost. By the time they've sourced materials (in supply chain stitched up by Tim Cook) and paid for the Windows license, then the price of the machine is heading towards 'unattractive.'
And MS knows this, which is why they're going to limit sales of the Surface as much as they can. I suspect they'll be making a loss on each one (I could be wrong though; the specs are still pretty much up in the air).
The x86 model looks good, but once you've attached the keyboard, it's about the same thickness as a Macbook Air.
I know that's the CW but I'm really buying it. If its just to give the OEM's a kick in the backside, why didn't MS do an Intel and provide a reference design and subsidize some of the cost? And I think it's unfair the way some are throwing all the blame on the OEM's. Even if they had a hardware product that equaled the iPad in terms of spec and build quality what software did they have to run on it? Android hasn't had much success on tablets and the Windows tablets of the past were basically failures. It's not the OEM's fault MS hasn't had a tablet optimized OS until now with Windows 8.
For the next few years, making the iPad progressively lighter would seem like the logical next step. Doing so would deal a serious blow to any of the smaller challengers, anemic as they already are.
And all the while, the older versions of iPad will be getting cheaper and cheaper. Next spring the iPad 2 will be $299. You can't top that, even with the other crap on the market brand new!
apple is not losing in any rational way in any market they are in.
i would really love to have an ipad.. i just can't justify it.
Sometimes, you just need to say "What the hell," and purchase it anyway. I think the sheer amount of fun you'll end up having with it will more than make up for any lingering doubt. (yes, I know it's easy for me to be glib - I have no idea what your personal financial is and I don't mean to make light of it.)
iPad mini makes sense and will be produced because:
1. There is a need. It's not rocket science to realize that the iPad is too heavy/large to hold for prolonged periods of time (usually from a standup position) nor is it as mobile as a smaller device. And the iPhone is too small to read/manipulate for any considerable amount of time or for deeper productivity.
2. There is opportunity to make money. While there will be some cannibalization, it's better than competitors grabbing share/profits. Some of the cannibalization will be offset by consumers who will merely add to their Apple ecosystem, not substitute their purchases. And obviously, there will be many consumers who will buy the iPad mini rather than getting a competing mini-tablet.
3. Market dominance and critical mass is important to Apple. Don't mistake this for Apple's philosophy of not being overly concerned with market share (i.e. PCs). The iOS ecosystem is a critical piece of Apple's near and long term strategy...the more, the better. It's like crack cocaine, but better for society.
4. Cost to market is negligible (and so is risk of product confusion). I.e. the positives far outweigh the negatives. I would not be surprised if Apple has already created working hardware and software for iPad mini. Nobody really knows if it'll be rolled-out this quarter, next quarter, or next year...if not this quarter, Apple is ready at ANY time to produce. This is the advantage of a cash-rich company...to go "nuclear" when the time is right (sorry for the war-like analogy).
Is the timing right now? I say, yes. But I'd rather Apple not guess at this, especially with all the other product roll-outs this quarter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
There's also a need for chocolate covered rabbit meat. It's not a large enough need to mass produce, however.
You're kidding, right? I don't want to pull the "get stronger" card, but it's a frigging pound and a half at most.
There's an opportunity to make money on a 17" laptop. Not enough for Apple to keep making one, though, even though they made money on every single one they sold.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp
Says who? The same analysts who vastly overestimated Samsung's pitiful tablet sales? And no, Apple does not need to come out with an iPad mini to survive. Your opinion on this matter is based on what exactly?
I don't think they need to do it to either survive or maintain leadership/ But Apple could make more money by releasing one.
Not sure why the press or fanboys feel the need to paint this as a "X company released an iPad killer" or "Apple's going out of business" or "iPad sales are X more than _____ so there!!!"
iPad leads the market. No question. But millions of people bought 7" tablets at a cheap price without the Apple brand on it to suggest that it's probably worth considering.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Except the only ones that matter.
You're right, none of what he says matters. None. You know we're talking about a global, multi-billion dollar company here, right? How can you say none of that matters? You think all that shit doesn't factor in? Of course, it will have to be a fundamentally good product in addition to all that, which for some insane reason you don't believe Apple is capable of pulling off, after all they've done in their history.
Quote:
Probably the latter, minus the "trolling". Even the worst product in the world based on the most idiotic decision in the world can make money. That doesn't make it a good product and the right decision. Look at Microsoft. Look at what the Web is still rebuilding after.
You admit that you plan to shit up every thread here even if the products are insanely successful, are loved by consumers, and get extremely high critical reviews, because YOU believe it's an idiotic decision based on your irrational world view and criteria. Wow. The sad part is, there's no chance in hell you will actually asess the product by its actual merits when its released, then reasees your opinion. No, the product itself will be irrelevant, the only thing relevant is 'sticking to your guns'. And then a nonsensical comparison to Microsoft, just because it sounds cool or something, right? Comparing a potential iPad mini with Microsofts web standards? Right.. Gotcha!
Quote:
And yet when I do the same, you say it's the worst possible thing in the world. Funny how that works. Almost makes me think you've no objectivity at all.
I was talking about SJ and having a vision. You're comparing yourself to him? Since when is being insanely close-minded and staunchly stubborn equal to having a vision? SJ changed his tune all the time, and let others convince him that something is a good decision EVEN while he was originally against it. It's the hallmarks of a great leader, someone always willing to reasess his opinions based on changing variables, and not stuck to a rigid ideology for the hell of it. Something you clearly lack, yet it's cute that you seem to think that your attitude constitutes a vision. Very cute.
You're a 'global' moderator. When the hell are you going to start acting like one? All I see you do here is let blatant trolls run free, revelling in the havoc they cause, and deride/mock the intelligent posters who put effort and thought behind their posts, because they might not share your black/white world view. Not once have I ever seen you have a 'moderating' affect on this forum. Clearly you got the title through post count only, which is sad.
Originally Posted by Slurpy
Of course, it will have to be a fundamentally good product in addition to all that, which for some insane reason you don't believe Apple is capable of pulling off, after all they've done in their history.
Even Apple (Jobs) admitted they don't know how to design a $500 computer that doesn't suck. They know they have limits.
You admit that you plan to shit up every thread here even if the products are insanely successful, are loved by consumers, and get extremely high critical reviews, because YOU believe it's an idiotic decision based on your irrational world view and criteria. Wow.
You'll notice I did exactly the opposite.
I was talking about SJ and having a vision. You're comparing yourself to him?
So no one can have a vision except Steve Jobs, in your world. Got it.
Since when is being insanely close-minded and staunchly stubborn equal to having a vision?
Since I'm not, probably.
Note that when you decide to build a new type of boat, you don't waste your time figuring out how best to pour rubber for tires.
I've changed my mind plenty of times. I still hate the idea of a wider phone screen, but I'm open to trying out the 6th iPhone's orientation (even though I also hate 16:9). I abhor the idea of a 7.85" iPad, even though I think there's a strong possibility it could exist this fall. So because it exists, I'm supposed to start loving it unquestioningly? Or I'm supposed to suddenly understand why it exists at all?
Next you'll be telling me that I have always thought iPod socks were a good idea.
http://www.wired.com/business/2012/08/column_microsoft
The gorgeous PC/tablet hybrid is the only example in recent memory of a company clearly and emphatically going toe to toe with Apple on the industrial design front. The iPad will have to improve. Android tablets will have to improve. Surface isn’t another me-too device — it moves the entire category forward.
Hyperbole much?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
It blows my mind how man people are pimping the Surface before they've even had a chance to use it. Wired is the latest:
http://www.wired.com/business/2012/08/column_microsoft
The gorgeous PC/tablet hybrid is the only example in recent memory of a company clearly and emphatically going toe to toe with Apple on the industrial design front. The iPad will have to improve. Android tablets will have to improve. Surface isn’t another me-too device — it moves the entire category forward.
Hyperbole much?
You been around the past few years? Every single device that has gone against the iPhone/iPad has been pimped by the media as a potential 'X-Killer'. They need to create drama. Aknowledging that the iPad will probably stay dominant would be boring.
But Samsung has "Shipped 50 million" Galaxy Tab 10.1's. They must have sold them that makes them the #1 Tablet maker in the World!!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by focher
Except those numbers don't reflect the Nexus 7. These Samsung estimates have now been proven completely false. Unless Samsung sold 2.2 million tablets outside the USA, which is beyond preposterous that they sell everything outside the USA and virtually none inside. It's pretty clear that Samsung has close to 0% of the market, at best. I suspect the others are not so different. There is no "tablet market". There's only an "iPad market". The others are just outliers, with the Kindle Fire being the most common of them. Whether the Nexus 7 gains any real market traction - despite whether it's a good device or not - is still unknown.
That is because samsung "cook" the sales data.
Samsuck classifies Shipped to distributors as SALES and the galaxy note phablet is included in samsung's tablet sales manipulation data.
Apple almost sell as much as they can produce off the production line but samsung have of UNSOLD Notes and tabs gathering dust in warehouses across the country. That is the driving force behind samsung "shipped" instead of sold data.
Of course, if there is no Mini announced next month, there will be claims that Apple has somehow failed but it should be remembered that any public comments from Apple regarding a 7-inch tablet have been negative in nature.
Make the Touch larger and future iPads lighter. Do that and the 7-inch tablet is rendered utterly pointless. The former seems like a logical progression, rendering the latter questionable.
Originally Posted by Carmissimo
If the Touch gains a larger screen, why bother with an iPad Mini. A larger Touch makes sense and if Apple plans to offer such a product, the rumoured Mini seems rather pointless.
See, that's what I'd really like. Have the 6th iPhone be these cases we're seeing now and have the new iPod touch be the design that we saw for the "iPhone 5" last year. Same screen ratio, same resolution, thinner package, just like every iPod touch before it.
Of course, if there is no Mini announced next month, there will be claims that Apple has somehow failed but it should be remembered that any public comments from Apple regarding a 7-inch tablet have been negative in nature.
No, the sites that were certain there would be an iPad mini will simply ignore the fact that they have ever gotten it wrong before at any time in any capacity, delete all their old posts about it to hide the information, and say that they're certain it will be coming out the next time Apple has an event.
We saw it happen with the iPhone nano, we saw it happen with the Verizon iPhone. ????
Make the Touch larger and future iPads lighter. Do that and the 7-inch tablet is rendered utterly pointless. The former seems like a logical progression, rendering the latter questionable.
Bingo. The iPad is ONLY going to get bigger, and a big part of the start of that will be making the existing model even lighter. When the 9.7" model is just barely under a pound (let's say .95 lbs.), the fact that the 15" is 1.6 lbs. really does become less of a concern.
I will have to say that although I sometimes don't agree with your opinions or tone, things just weren't the same without you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
It blows my mind how man people are pimping the Surface before they've even had a chance to use it. Wired is the latest:
http://www.wired.com/business/2012/08/column_microsoft
The gorgeous PC/tablet hybrid is the only example in recent memory of a company clearly and emphatically going toe to toe with Apple on the industrial design front. The iPad will have to improve. Android tablets will have to improve. Surface isn’t another me-too device — it moves the entire category forward.
Hyperbole much?
The sole purpose of the Surface is to bully the OEMs into building a machine that could compete with the iPad. MS is saying that unless they step up then they'll do it themselves. This is fine until you look at the reason why the OEMs can't build something like an iPad: cost. By the time they've sourced materials (in supply chain stitched up by Tim Cook) and paid for the Windows license, then the price of the machine is heading towards 'unattractive.'
And MS knows this, which is why they're going to limit sales of the Surface as much as they can. I suspect they'll be making a loss on each one (I could be wrong though; the specs are still pretty much up in the air).
The x86 model looks good, but once you've attached the keyboard, it's about the same thickness as a Macbook Air.
The problem I could see with a larger iPad would be that it would be awkward to hold, even if relatively light. The other issue is, what sort of resolution would be needed to make a 15-inch screen qualify as a Retina, as Apple defines it. Being as a tablet is held closer than a laptop woud be, the resolution would have to be boosted accordingly. On the other hand, we're talking a few years down the road.
For the next few years, making the iPad progressively lighter would seem like the logical next step. Doing so would deal a serious blow to any of the smaller challengers, anemic as they already are.
Originally Posted by Carmissimo
For the next few years, making the iPad progressively lighter would seem like the logical next step. Doing so would deal a serious blow to any of the smaller challengers, anemic as they already are.
And all the while, the older versions of iPad will be getting cheaper and cheaper. Next spring the iPad 2 will be $299. You can't top that, even with the other crap on the market brand new!
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins
apple is not losing in any rational way in any market they are in.
i would really love to have an ipad.. i just can't justify it.
Sometimes, you just need to say "What the hell," and purchase it anyway. I think the sheer amount of fun you'll end up having with it will more than make up for any lingering doubt.
Quote:
<snip>
That's for when Apple hires Ballmer as a creative consultant.
Must...
scrub...
brain...
with...
Brillo!!!
*shudder* What a horrible, horrible thought.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drewys808
iPad mini makes sense and will be produced because:
1. There is a need. It's not rocket science to realize that the iPad is too heavy/large to hold for prolonged periods of time (usually from a standup position) nor is it as mobile as a smaller device. And the iPhone is too small to read/manipulate for any considerable amount of time or for deeper productivity.
2. There is opportunity to make money. While there will be some cannibalization, it's better than competitors grabbing share/profits. Some of the cannibalization will be offset by consumers who will merely add to their Apple ecosystem, not substitute their purchases. And obviously, there will be many consumers who will buy the iPad mini rather than getting a competing mini-tablet.
3. Market dominance and critical mass is important to Apple. Don't mistake this for Apple's philosophy of not being overly concerned with market share (i.e. PCs). The iOS ecosystem is a critical piece of Apple's near and long term strategy...the more, the better. It's like crack cocaine, but better for society.
4. Cost to market is negligible (and so is risk of product confusion). I.e. the positives far outweigh the negatives. I would not be surprised if Apple has already created working hardware and software for iPad mini. Nobody really knows if it'll be rolled-out this quarter, next quarter, or next year...if not this quarter, Apple is ready at ANY time to produce. This is the advantage of a cash-rich company...to go "nuclear" when the time is right (sorry for the war-like analogy).
Is the timing right now? I say, yes. But I'd rather Apple not guess at this, especially with all the other product roll-outs this quarter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
There's also a need for chocolate covered rabbit meat. It's not a large enough need to mass produce, however.
You're kidding, right? I don't want to pull the "get stronger" card, but it's a frigging pound and a half at most.
There's an opportunity to make money on a 17" laptop. Not enough for Apple to keep making one, though, even though they made money on every single one they sold.
Here come the cries of monopoly.
I somehow doubt that.
You know what this means...
MATT LAUER CAN SUCK IT!!!
...and by Matt Lauer, I mean Tallest Skil.
:-)